Teen beating

[toni]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009077/

Talk about animals. They all need to be thrown in jail. If this was my kid, there would be hell to pay.

[HottiMegan]

Geez. And the fact that the kids take it so lightly that the damaged this girl, potentially for good. The article says she has hearing and vision loss. I hope the book is thrown at these kids and some seriousl civil suits are filed too!

[tonynyc]

So they videotaped the crime and posted it - real geniuses at work


They all deserve the fucking books to be thrown at them

[Ruffie]

Among alot of teens these days. I work with teens at risk and hear and see the results of this crap all the time. It is so frustrating that kids do not work out their differences one on one any longer, either verbally or physically. The wost part of my job is trying to make changes with the kids that want to while there are so many people around them that don't believe in the possibilities they have to make those changes.
Ruth

[MsGreenLantern]

Okay that mom's comments are very telling. Apparently she believes violence is completely okay to solve personal problems. Her kid didn't even call the police or anything. Stupid evil girls, stupid head in the sand mother. It seriously scares me what happens in schools anymore, and outside of them too. Kids are getting more violent, more sexually active earlier, and lord knows so much more.

[LoveBHMS]

Originally Posted by tonynyc

So they videotaped the crime and posted it - real geniuses at work


They all deserve the fucking books to be thrown at them

There is nothing at all funny about this, but from a strictly darkly comedic "Heathers" level perspective.

How effing stupid are kids today? Back when I was a kid, you tried to hide any crimes. Now somebody actually comes up with the idea of filiming them and posting them on the internet? How did this seem like a good idea?

[Miss Vickie]

Originally Posted by MsGreenLantern

Okay that mom's comments are very telling. Apparently she believes violence is completely okay to solve personal problems. Her kid didn't even call the police or anything. Stupid evil girls, stupid head in the sand mother.

Yep. I was outraged by the act; however, the mom's reaction just FLOORED me. If that was my daughter... oh man. I'd be mortified, to say the least, and I'd make sure I didn't bail her out and she served every single minute of whatever they chose to give her for her participation in such a heinous act.

I'm not sure if kids are getting more violent or if we just near about it more. It's very sad and scary, though. That poor girl.

[Mini]

I hope someday there's footage of them getting gang-raped in prison.

[love dubh]

I don't believe in gang rape. However, a sound beating by the veteran female inmate population would not go awry. Like how Andrea Yates woulda been torn to pieces had she not been in solitary/protected confinement.

[Mini]

Originally Posted by love dubh

I don't believe in gang rape. However, a sound beating by the veteran female inmate population would not go awry. Like how Andrea Yates woulda been torn to pieces had she not been in solitary/protected confinement.

Eh, same difference so long as they suffer and our put out of our misery in the process.

Refresh my memory, though: Andrea Yates?

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by LoveBHMS

There is nothing at all funny about this, but from a strictly darkly comedic "Heathers" level perspective.

How effing stupid are kids today? Back when I was a kid, you tried to hide any crimes. Now somebody actually comes up with the idea of filiming them and posting them on the internet? How did this seem like a good idea?

maybe these thugs wanted to film the next 'Fight Club' epic. who knows? you just have some sick folks out there that have a total disregard for human life.

Originally Posted by Mini

Eh, same difference so long as they suffer and our put out of our misery in the process.

Refresh my memory, though: Andrea Yates?

Texas mom that drowned her 5 young children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

[Ruffie]

But really look at the crap we all see on TV and the moves today. As well the music that kids are listening to. Its alot of violence, disregard for others and a sense of enttlement for gettng what YOU want. Then add to the fact that people aren't spending much time with their kids anymore and voila we have the results in things like this. Its real easy to blame and vilionize the kids and of course they made the choice to do this shit. But ya know as someone that works with kids with issues it pisses me off that most folks just want to throw them away when they make mistakes, when parents, schools, society as a whole had a hand in creating this crap. Do the girls need to be punished OF COURSE. But along with that they need help to find out why they did what they did and to make better choices for the future. Not all youth will respond but hey if one or two of the group do wouldn't you want them out there in society with a new set of tools to handle their anger rather than nothing? SOmething to think about.
Ruth

[swordchick]

I agree, Ruffie. You have a really hard job to do. But our society has to wake up. Our children's emotional needs must be dealt with or they will turn into adults who can't deal with any issues. Our prisons and jails are filled with people who are mentally ill. It is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound and expecting it to heal.

Originally Posted by Ruffie

But really look at the crap we all see on TV and the moves today. As well the music that kids are listening to. Its alot of violence, disregard for others and a sense of enttlement for gettng what YOU want. Then add to the fact that people aren't spending much time with their kids anymore and voila we have the results in things like this. Its real easy to blame and vilionize the kids and of course they made the choice to do this shit. But ya know as someone that works with kids with issues it pisses me off that most folks just want to throw them away when they make mistakes, when parents, schools, society as a whole had a hand in creating this crap. Do the girls need to be punished OF COURSE. But along with that they need help to find out why they did what they did and to make better choices for the future. Not all youth will respond but hey if one or two of the group do wouldn't you want them out there in society with a new set of tools to handle their anger rather than nothing? SOmething to think about.
Ruth

[Mathias]

So stupid... And given the Mother's comments it's no wonder the suspect turned out the way she did.

[Ruffie]

Originally Posted by swordchick

I agree, Ruffie. You have a really hard job to do. But our society has to wake up. Our children's emotional needs must be dealt with or they will turn into adults who can't deal with any issues. Our prisons and jails are filled with people who are mentally ill. It is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound and expecting it to heal.

Many kids can't cook, wash clothes, pay a bill..etc. We did a disservice taking out home ec and shop classes from our schools cause the parents sure aren't teaching the kids in the upper middle class homes that these days. Hubby sees it in the high school he teaches at. Unfortunately many of the kids I work with are having to parent their families if they are the oldest taking care of everyone and had no time to be a kid. There is no accountability for alot of youth these days and it hurts them kids crave that! As for the mental illness thereis alot of undiagnosed stuff out there and in my line of work lots of FASD and ADD issues that contrbute to the behavoirs we see. But a huge mistrust of the system makes it hard to get them looking at treatment so its a difficult row to hoe!
Ruth

[Ernest Nagel]

Not much for anyone to laugh about now. So sad.

http://www.wcbd.com/midatlantic/cbd/...4-11-0012.html

Accused teen beaters in court

Friday, Apr 11, 2008 - 08:29 AM

Those teens in Florida accused of beating a 16-year-old while a camera rolled will be tried as adults.

The eight will be in court for the first time later today.

By now, most of us have seen the Florida teens accused of beating a 16-year-old and videotaping it to post on line.

Later today, we will see them again, this time in court. The six girls involved in the beating, and two boys, who allegedly acted as lookouts, have all now been charged as adults.

They face their first court appearance in Polk County, Florida this afternoon.

All are charged with kidnapping and battery.

Three face additional charges of tampering with a witness, the victim.

Polk County's sheriff had asked the teens be tried as adults saying the video tape released publicly isn't even the worst of the beating.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd says "the piece that you are seeing on television is after they knocked her unconscious, and she had regained consciousness."

The victim suffered a concussion and damage to her eye and ear, but her mother says the emotional scars may take much longer to heal.

Talisa Lindsay, the victim's mother, says "how can you recover? Honestly? When something like this tragically happens to you? It will probably affect her for the rest of her life."

Meantime, the teens accused in the beating could spend the rest of their lives in prison.

For now, all eight teens are being held in jail without bond.

[Ruffie]

SOme kids around the age of 15 going to court tried as adults for a gang fight that went bad and a youth killed. Will be in court for one of the kids next week for the preliminary hearings. So much pain all around when violence is used*shakes head*
Ruth

[comperic2003]

It would be bad enough if the other girls were just pulling the victim's hair and scratching her for 30 minutes, but these perpetrators can actually throw a decent punch.

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by comperic2003

It would be bad enough if the other girls were just pulling the victim's hair and scratching her for 30 minutes, but these perpetrators can actually throw a decent punch.

Well each attack (scratching or punches) can leave it's own damadge. The victim might not have to deal with the physical 'scars' of being scratched- but, she has to deal with long term effects of those multiple punches.

[AZ_Wolf]

The fact that the mother came on national TV to defend her daughter speaks volumes.

It's abundantly clear why today's children grow up how they do today.

Fame, immediate rationalization and fulfillment of one's desires above all. Education, school -- who needs it?

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Ruffie

SOme kids around the age of 15 going to court tried as adults for a gang fight that went bad and a youth killed. Will be in court for one of the kids next week for the preliminary hearings. So much pain all around when violence is used*shakes head*
Ruth

"Pain all around" is a bad way to look at it.

The only person's pain you or I need to concern ourselves with is the girl who got pummeled repeatedly over normal high school teen drama.

The pain and suffering of the criminals and the families who helped form their blackened little souls means little. Frankly, I wish the victim had made a run for the kitchen and gotten a knife to even things up a little, or at least be able to control the space around her so nobody could get at her without getting cut.

We should be reading her attackers' obituaries.

[Ruffie]

[I[b]]"The pain and suffering of the criminals and the families who helped form their blackened little souls means little. "
Well I can tell you for a fact that not every person in that childs life was a "bad influence" and you have NO RIGHT to assume that every person asociated with them is not allowed to feel pain for the path that someone they love chose to take. Sure there is responsibility on the part of some of the families but guess what there may be a Grandparent, aunt, cousin, or friend who tried to show the kids the right way and their pain shouldn't be minimized because they love the person.


Frankly, I wish the victim had made a run for the kitchen and gotten a knife to even things up a little, or at least be able to control the space around her so nobody could get at her without getting cut.
Yes lets add a knife into the picture so when defending herself she perhaps accidently kills/hurts someone and is not only messed up from the beating but the fact she took someones life/hurt thembadly
We should be reading her attackers' obituaries.But when we throw around attidues like an eye for an eye it is this kind of thing that gets all these kids beating the living shit out of each other. And nowdays its never one on one everyone gets their friends to help them exact revenge and then they get friends and it becomes a giant cluster F*ck! So easy to toss everyone in a big bowl who has done something wrong and feed em to the wolves. Lets put it this way. Every person on this earth has done something wrong/illegal. The only difference between them and you is that they got caught!

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Ruffie

[I[b]]"The pain and suffering of the criminals and the families who helped form their blackened little souls means little. "

Well I can tell you for a fact that not every person in that childs life was a "bad influence" and you have NO RIGHT to assume that every person asociated with them is not allowed to feel pain for the path that someone they love chose to take. Sure there is responsibility on the part of some of the families but guess what there may be a Grandparent, aunt, cousin, or friend who tried to show the kids the right way and their pain shouldn't be minimized because they love the person.

Odds are pretty good that these little pieces of crap came from stellar homes, no doubt...

Frankly, I wish the victim had made a run for the kitchen and gotten a knife to even things up a little, or at least be able to control the space around her so nobody could get at her without getting cut.

Yes lets add a knife into the picture so when defending herself she perhaps accidently kills/hurts someone and is not only messed up from the beating but the fact she took someones life/hurt them badly.

We should be reading her attackers' obituaries.But when we throw around attidues like an eye for an eye it is this kind of thing that gets all these kids beating the living shit out of each other. And nowdays its never one on one everyone gets their friends to help them exact revenge and then they get friends and it becomes a giant cluster F*ck! So easy to toss everyone in a big bowl who has done something wrong and feed em to the wolves. Lets put it this way. Every person on this earth has done something wrong/illegal. The only difference between them and you is that they got caught!

Not accidentally. Intentionally. She (as well as every other human being) has the right to use deadly force to defend herself from serious, violent attacks. She was kidnapped, attacked by numerous people, given a concussion, and partially deafened in one ear. Use of deadly force is more than justified. The crimes these people perpetrated on that girl are completely different from a schoolyard fistfight.

This isn't an eye for an eye. What else can one individual do to stop a violent attack from multiple assailants? It's not about revenge, it's about exercising your legal right to not be violently attacked. Being a violent felon SHOULD be a dangerous business for the attacker, not their victim.

[Ruffie]

I know several "little pieces of crap" as you put it who came from homes like that and they are now productve citizens. Many who I have worked wth are now also in the heling field, nurses, addiction workers, social workers and hell yes some of thse pieces of crap are my staff. They were able to change ther lives around because someone beleived in their potiential, called them on their shit and helped them to make better decisions. DO all the kds make it no, but ya know all I am trying to do is make a dfference and have people look at things on a individual basis.

I know of people who have defended themselves in domestic abuse situations who went through years or torment and in my mind had every right to defend themselves who ended up killng the abuser who hate the fact they had to do it. All I was saying was if that had happened she has one more thing to feel bad about.

As for the response to the eye to eye comment the point that, was by the way entirely missed so I will make it again, was that attitudes that suggest we take someone's life cause they wronged us breed the attitude that its ok to do it on the street. Back in the day when I was growing up kids settled things between each other one on one and you might have a crowd gathered but rarely did people jump in uness it was to pull someone off of who was badly beating another. Now as we see in the video 6 people will jump one cause they feel justified to take things into their own hands.

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Ruffie

I know several "little pieces of crap" as you put it who came from homes like that and they are now productve citizens. Many who I have worked wth are now also in the heling field, nurses, addiction workers, social workers and hell yes some of thse pieces of crap are my staff. They were able to change ther lives around because someone beleived in their potiential, called them on their shit and helped them to make better decisions. DO all the kds make it no, but ya know all I am trying to do is make a dfference and have people look at things on a individual basis.

Good for you. Did they do stuff like these Youtube pieces of crap did? If so they got off lucky. Repeat after me: "Self defense is a basic human right". Now say it again.

It's always good when someone can rise above their upbringing or environment, but that is totally irrelevant in THIS discussion. What they MAY become doesn't mean anything during the attack where they kidnapped someone, knocked them unconscious, and inflicted greivous bodily harm upon their victim.

I know of people who have defended themselves in domestic abuse situations who went through years or torment and in my mind had every right to defend themselves who ended up killng the abuser who hate the fact they had to do it. All I was saying was if that had happened she has one more thing to feel bad about.

Nobody said a vigorous self-defense had no emotional toll. In fact, that's what I was taught in my concealed carry class, and is taught in every concealed carry class in this country. It's been shown that cops very often quit being cops within five years of a shooting because of the remorse and self-doubt. That doesn't change the fact that self defense is a basic human right.

As for the response to the eye to eye comment the point that, was by the way entirely missed so I will make it again, was that attitudes that suggest we take someone's life cause they wronged us breed the attitude that its ok to do it on the street. Back in the day when I was growing up kids settled things between each other one on one and you might have a crowd gathered but rarely did people jump in uness it was to pull someone off of who was badly beating another. Now as we see in the video 6 people will jump one cause they feel justified to take things into their own hands.

I agree totally that you don't end human life because they wronged you. That, however, is totally irrelevant in this particular instance. If these girls had, one at a time, "settled up" with this girl in the schoolyard we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead, they kidnapped her (major felony), ganged up on her (major felony), and inflicted greivous bodily injury upon her (major felony). This is now no longer a discussion about bloody noses and schoolyards. This is far, far more serious. I just wish you could see that.