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Old 04-25-2008, 02:01 PM   #26
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After PopeFestUSA '08 I've about had it when it comes to political correctness as applied to religion. Religion is a choice, unlike race or ethnicity. This is an important distinction. This video is offensive? Well, I think accepting slavery, or condoning killing nonbelievers, or condemning a woman at birth to second-class status is pretty offensive too. Liberals shouldn't be defending abusive, intolerant religions of any kind - Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. ANY philosophy that marginalizes or subjugates other people should be condemned and is fair game for mocking.

That said, a bass in a rock band should never have more than 4 strings, so points off for that.
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Old 04-25-2008, 02:05 PM   #27
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I have no comment to make about the content of the video language or visual, BUT, I have a headache from the screaming.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:21 AM   #28
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it reminds me very much of a media studies student art project.


im not sure if thats a good or bad thing lol
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Old 04-26-2008, 10:27 AM   #29
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It reminds me of Marilyn Manson - That kinda "I'll do anything I can to shock you, think up the most "offensive" lyrics and visuals and get silicon implants. But you see the problem with that is, that simply it's so obvious, SO manufactured, that its just NOT offensive, or interesting, or.. anything really. It totally makes me think of little children being naughty simply to get attention, and therefore my reaction to the whole thing is just ...."awww, its a wee phase they're going through, ignore them and they'll get bored of it". It's just like a little baby tantrum song.

Sorry
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Old 04-26-2008, 01:28 PM   #30
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Reminded me of MM....not the music just you doing things for shock value. Which I appreciate. That's makes for a good show considering you music isn't all the complicated. I liked it.
I watched a couple other videos too and I really enjoyed you humping the blow up doll from the back while you sang.
I'd love to see one of your shows.
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Old 04-26-2008, 01:53 PM   #31
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thanks for raping my ear canals
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Old 04-26-2008, 01:55 PM   #32
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Reminded me of MM....not the music just you doing things for shock value. Which I appreciate. That's makes for a good show considering you music isn't all the complicated. I liked it.
I watched a couple other videos too and I really enjoyed you humping the blow up doll from the back while you sang.
I'd love to see one of your shows.
Thanks. I'm a huge fan of Marilyn Manson. We do a lot of shows in Syracuse. Will be moving the band to NYC upon graduation from SU.

Haha, glad you liked the other vids. Everyone has an opinion.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ruby Ripples View Post
It reminds me of Marilyn Manson - That kinda "I'll do anything I can to shock you, think up the most "offensive" lyrics and visuals and get silicon implants. But you see the problem with that is, that simply it's so obvious, SO manufactured, that its just NOT offensive, or interesting, or.. anything really. It totally makes me think of little children being naughty simply to get attention, and therefore my reaction to the whole thing is just ...."awww, its a wee phase they're going through, ignore them and they'll get bored of it". It's just like a little baby tantrum song.

Sorry
Lol you don't have to be sorry. Some people will write-off any art that addresses controversial issues as simply "trying to shock"

The song actually addresses the issue of freedom of speech raised by The Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. But if you'd prefer to think of it as a temper tantrum and not read into it further, then that's fine too.

To some, Marilyn Manson is raising issues of gender in a society that attempts to lump everyone into one of two groups when he wears fake breasts. To others, he is merely "trying to shock". Does it ever occur to you to look deeper?

Having all of his albums banned in WalMart after the Columbine shootings severely impacted the album sales of Manson's 'Holy Wood'.

Controversy in the music industry is not the easiest way to build a career. Bands who play it safe and don't address important issues have it much easier. Why is it that bands like Nickelback who have no real message or cultural significance are not written off as bland and uninspired, unchallenging to people, while bands like MM who do address social issues are merely "tryingt to shock"? Something to think about...

I'd be willing to be the music you like does not address current events or controversial issues at all, or does so in a very indirect and harmless way. One person's "shocking" is another's "social commentary"
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:08 PM   #34
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After PopeFestUSA '08 I've about had it when it comes to political correctness as applied to religion. Religion is a choice, unlike race or ethnicity. This is an important distinction. This video is offensive? Well, I think accepting slavery, or condoning killing nonbelievers, or condemning a woman at birth to second-class status is pretty offensive too. Liberals shouldn't be defending abusive, intolerant religions of any kind - Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. ANY philosophy that marginalizes or subjugates other people should be condemned and is fair game for mocking.

That said, a bass in a rock band should never have more than 4 strings, so points off for that.
Hahaha thank you. I can go with that. Although this was meant as a commentary on the Jyllands-Posten cartoons and the issues of freedom of speech that arose from them, and not as an attack on Islam.

As for the bass, he was missing a string, so it actually did only have four strings in the video
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:12 PM   #35
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This sounds and looks like something that would be played at a White Pride rally.

For the record, not offended. Just amused that hate becomes so cute when it's set to a catchy tune.
Hahaha thank you. Glad you find the music catchy.

Many of the posters in this thread would be amused to know that we are just as hated by the rednecks here in upstate NY (who might be assumed to agree with our percieved "white power" aesthetic) as we might be by a Muslim audience.

They seem to intuitively understand that we are, in fact, mocking their hateful attitudes as much as we are addressing issues of free speech and they do not find it amusing.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:17 PM   #36
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Congratulations you're racist! Now please digitally remove the fattie from your video so we can get a move on to the Grand Wizard's dinner party. You did bring the Swastika pasta salad right?

Art: an excuse for anything.
Congratulations! You've showed that you take things at face value and lack analytical skills.

The video and song are a commentary on the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, not an attack on Islam.

Read the lyrics. We are criticizing the fact that both sides in the conflict view things in terms of black and white. Both are wrong to some degree.

The bridge actually says "Abandon your false idols and put down your fucking guns"

Far from racist, we are actually condemning violence and fundamentalist interpretations of religion.

But if packaging us as racists makes us fit into your black and white color scheme more confortably, so be it.

Art: Sometimes you have to think before making assumptions.

Last edited by voidhead; 04-26-2008 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:19 PM   #37
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How the hell was that racist? There are enough things to be offended at in the OP's art project that you don't have to make baseless accusations. There's enough racism in the world that you don't have to go inventing it when you want something to pretend to be outraged about.
Thank you for looking deeper.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:48 PM   #38
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Thanks. I'm a huge fan of Marilyn Manson. We do a lot of shows in Syracuse. Will be moving the band to NYC upon graduation from SU.

Haha, glad you liked the other vids. Everyone has an opinion.
You should come do a show in AZ....
Do you guys wear masks all the time?
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:15 AM   #39
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Hahaha thank you. I can go with that. Although this was meant as a commentary on the Jyllands-Posten cartoons and the issues of freedom of speech that arose from them, and not as an attack on Islam.
Just FYI, whatever you intended, that video will be perceived as an attack on Islam. It paints with too broad a brush visually, with the praying and the hijabs. I'd keep the masks on or else I'll be seeing you next on a very, very different kind of youtube video!
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Old 04-27-2008, 04:21 PM   #40
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You should come do a show in AZ....
Do you guys wear masks all the time?
Yeah the video is a pretty good indicator of our live show, give or take. The bassist has been known to perform in only a thong and cowboy hat though, and I sometimes do a tar and feathered costume (which is in some scenes in the video).

I will be continuing the band when I move to NYC, possibly under a different name. Either way, we will be starting over almost from scratch (one of the guitarists is coming with me) and possibly adopting new imagery and a new identity.

I plan on pursuing this to the fullest. A national tour is inevitable at some point. Trust me, this will not be the last time most of you hear about us...
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:15 PM   #41
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while it's not my cup of tea (at all), i'm all for your right to make whatever noise you want, and the beautiful (?) thing is that no matter what it is, some segment of the population's going to dig it.
my beef with bands like this (MM very much included), is really it just REEKS of effort to shock. protest all you want about it being deep socio-political commentary, i call bullshit. marilyn manson's challenging gender roles in pop culture? yeah wow i'm so impressed by him skipping through that giant, david bowie and new york dolls-size hole in the wall. even marilyn manson's admitted he's not doing anything that hasn't been done by more talented people since well before he was even born.
so when i look at the OPs video, the only thing i'm shocked by is what a pale, anemic imitation of a mid-1980s feederz show it is.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:34 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by voidhead View Post
Congratulations! You've showed that you take things at face value and lack analytical skills.

The video and song are a commentary on the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, not an attack on Islam.

Read the lyrics. We are criticizing the fact that both sides in the conflict view things in terms of black and white. Both are wrong to some degree.

The bridge actually says "Abandon your false idols and put down your fucking guns"

Far from racist, we are actually condemning violence and fundamentalist interpretations of religion.

But if packaging us as racists makes us fit into your black and white color scheme more confortably, so be it.

Art: Sometimes you have to think before making assumptions.
show me where the parody is apparent in the video. this is hardcore, lyrics are incomprehensible. they may be listed there, but trying to trick the listeners isn't deep, it's shock value with a twist ending. i like satire. i think this particular satire is a bit labored. i apologize for the knee-jerk reaction, i guess, but now do your part and apply an angle or wit, not just the words "just kidding" in fine print.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:20 PM   #43
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You don't have to apply the word racist, but the deliberately careless and mocking use of both the headgear and the feigned bowing in prayer is just sensationalist and cheap.
Thank you!!! Those were the words I was looking for. This thing was too contrived and silly to be offensive.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:00 PM   #44
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show me where the parody is apparent in the video. this is hardcore, lyrics are incomprehensible. they may be listed there, but trying to trick the listeners isn't deep, it's shock value with a twist ending. i like satire. i think this particular satire is a bit labored. i apologize for the knee-jerk reaction, i guess, but now do your part and apply an angle or wit, not just the words "just kidding" in fine print.
Exactly. There's more to satire - a lot more, really - than saying, well, I didn't mean it seriously.

The whole point of satire is that you don't need to point out that it is, in fact, satirical. It's self-evident; otherwise, as Elle said, you're just trying to manufacture shock value, and that's just lame.

Still, more power to you. At least you're trying.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #45
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Oh come on voidhead, if you're trying to communicate something with this thing you missed. Nobody got it and of course the typical artist's response is to declare the earth full of dim witted huckleberries. It never occurs to you that maybe you just presented your message very poorly. I can't go back and look but I don't recall anyone calling your work outright trash. It just wasn't legible.


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Congratulations! You've showed that you take things at face value and lack analytical skills.

The video and song are a commentary on the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, not an attack on Islam.

Read the lyrics. We are criticizing the fact that both sides in the conflict view things in terms of black and white. Both are wrong to some degree.

The bridge actually says "Abandon your false idols and put down your fucking guns"

Far from racist, we are actually condemning violence and fundamentalist interpretations of religion.

But if packaging us as racists makes us fit into your black and white color scheme more confortably, so be it.

Art: Sometimes you have to think before making assumptions.
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Old 05-02-2008, 01:48 PM   #46
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Thanks for the comments. I have gotten a lot of good feedback on this site and others. I've also learned a lot more about how people react to what we're doing.
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Old 05-02-2008, 01:54 PM   #47
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show me where the parody is apparent in the video. this is hardcore, lyrics are incomprehensible. they may be listed there, but trying to trick the listeners isn't deep, it's shock value with a twist ending. i like satire. i think this particular satire is a bit labored. i apologize for the knee-jerk reaction, i guess, but now do your part and apply an angle or wit, not just the words "just kidding" in fine print.
Hmm well first of all this is Industrial Metal. I fucking hate most hardcore or most metal without keyboards or electronics for that matter.

Having listened to a lot of Industrial music with distorted vocals, the lyrics are easily comprehensible to me. Not just because I wrote/sang them.

Secondly, even on a basic level, the parody of Abu Gharib and the Jyllands-Posten cartoons should be evident to anyone who is informed.

Also, on a basic level, if this is some radical attack on Islam, then why are we also burning an American flag? Why are we dressed like terrorists? I think it's clear that we aren't taking anyone's side in the "war on terror", and that we are at least criticizing both sides on a basic level.

There is no "twist ending". It's the fact that people insist on packaging everything into one of two ideological camps that makes this seem so extreme in one direction or another to people.

That being said, this clearly went over a lot of people's heads regarding the intended meaning vs what people interpreted so that is at least something for me to think about. And no I'm not going to play the sophisticated artist angle saying you're all dumb sheep and just don't understand us.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:28 PM   #48
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my beef with bands like this (MM very much included), is really it just REEKS of effort to shock.
YES. I am impossible to offend for the usual reasons, but I am offended by manipulation. And "are we shocking you!?" irritates the holy hell out of me.

Because whatever I think of the music, I'm not shocked. I'm not offended, it didn't provoke thought. The harder you try, the more anemic and young it can seem.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:11 PM   #49
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I'm glad someone summed up political commentary from a year ago in song so I wouldn't have to read a book or go to the library and check out the NYT archives...let's mash some pancakes into titties!
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:36 PM   #50
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Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Waxwing has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
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Originally Posted by voidhead View Post
That being said, this clearly went over a lot of people's heads regarding the intended meaning vs what people interpreted so that is at least something for me to think about. And no I'm not going to play the sophisticated artist angle saying you're all dumb sheep and just don't understand us.
I'm not sure the issue was that it went over people's heads. When you create art, it's probably true that a significant portion of people exposed to it will think it's offensive.

So whether or not you agree with that offense, the issue is that an audience felt shut off from it.

The answer isn't "well those people are retards", but "those people didn't relate". That doesn't mean dampen your work to appeal to the masses, but it does mean find a way to touch the people who are least likely to love your work.

There's a certain amount softening which can make SO many more people like your work, and understand what you're trying to say.

If you're horribly racist the way some people have interpreted? Well then, eh, I wash my hands of the whole thing.
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