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Old 05-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #1
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Default Are BHMs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse?

If they are I don't really see it here. Sure there are dramatic posts saying, "no one appreciates me and I am never coming back!" But I don't think those represent the majority of BHMs here. Some guys find this forum and feel like they just found a sign that says free candy. Then they get upset because they aren't getting any candy (nudge, nudge, wink, wink... candy, he said knowingly). There isn't really a sign that says free candy, though and if I can over use that analogy a little longer I could say that the candy doesn't usually like the implication that it should be free. So feelings are hurt and emotions get out of control and sometimes a BHM goes home crying and other times they learn something and stick around and occasionally some even get some candy. I don't think that the ones that go home crying are the majority though.

What I can't see directly, though, are the private conversations between BHMs and FFAs and this seems to be where most of the perception that BHMs are emotional wrecks is coming from. Now, we all open up a little emotionally in a relationship, don't we? Isn't that what intimacy is all about? So we have to be talking about something beyond the standard sort of complaint about something like total strangers coming up to talk to you about dieting, we're talking about real emotional fragility.

So, what about it guys and gals, are BHMs a bunch of fragile flowers on the verge of emotional collapse?
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:35 PM   #2
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Yeah, I think that we notice the ones who are fragile and go all weird on us at the slightest provocation, instead of the majority of BHMs who are stable people.

You know, it never really occured to me to use Dimensions as a daing site. Like, I always thought of it as a place for people to come and talk about the things we share interests in, and share photos and stuff, but not as a place to coordinate hook-ups or anything.

I think people in general are "fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse", not just BHMs.

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Old 05-04-2008, 01:43 PM   #3
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Hi

Just a reminder that we guys as a whole are not that sturdy anyway, when you remember that we account for most of the people in prison and in Alcohol & Drug Rehabs. Also we are also falling behind in academics.

We still can carry heavy stuff

William




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Yeah, I think that we notice the ones who are fragile and go all weird on us at the slightest provocation, instead of the majority of BHMs who are stable people.

You know, it never really occured to me to use Dimensions as a daing site. Like, I always thought of it as a place for people to come and talk about the things we share interests in, and share photos and stuff, but not as a place to coordinate hook-ups or anything.

I think people in general are "fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse", not just BHMs.

-Ty
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:29 PM   #4
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To a degree, like all fat folks, we are emotionally scarred. There are the few and proud who have gotten over this or perhaps (less likely) never experienced any trauma from it.

To my mind you have to expect a lot of the time that new users will need support and encouragement. Because that's what they're coming here for - affirmation that we're not abnormal the way we are, that other like the way we are, and we can like it too!

Now, I'm not saying kid gloves for every new poster but from my lurking and posting here I don't think the general flavour of the forum is perhaps as welcoming or as useful to that purpose as I would have hoped.

The recent set up of other sites and more specifically tailored communities I think shows that in some ways Dims is not catering to that more emotional need of the BHM admirer dynamic.

We DON'T fit in in the rest of the forums. Not that its not relevant, but because we get lost in the crowd. Where I've seen threads moved out of here to other locations I've sighed - because then I find it hard as to what MY peers think about things.

Sorry, turned a bit ranty here.

In summary: yes, we can be, and more consideration for that should be shown.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:57 PM   #5
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I like to think that women just haven't broken the glass ceiling keeping most of them out of the drug rehabs and prisons.

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Hi

Just a reminder that we guys as a whole are not that sturdy anyway, when you remember that we account for most of the people in prison and in Alcohol & Drug Rehabs. Also we are also falling behind in academics.

William
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #6
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Default Well gosh....

I just happen to work in the Mental Health component of Californian's largest Substance Abuse program and I sure see quite a few women around our building in the Outpatient program, seeking treatment for both mental health and substance abuse problems...I understand that our in-prison programs at Women's Prisons in the Great State of California are stuffed to the gills and while there are not as many women clients as men clients overall, part of that is the traditional and historical stigma about women seeking treatment for behavioral health issues in general...that is all changing, as are most gender-related roles and stressors in our Society. What we do find is that individuals; across any gender differences, do experience trauma and compensate in many individual ways. I refuse to get into any gender-specific argument about this, because it is individuals that we are talking about and not whole genders, although two of our best-practice models, "Dialectial Behavioral Therapy" and "Seeking Safety" were originally designed for women with Borderline Personality Disorder and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, respectively. They are now used for male, female, transsexual and intersexual individuals across the board...that tells you something right there!
The new models are coming out on a community and peer support structure, like "The Village", down in Los Angeles...individuals with all kinds of disparate backgrounds and specific needs, helping each other to find practical cognitive solutions to their problems in a group, with professional clinicians in the background as team members, not the "stars" of the show...the World is changing and my best respose to BHM-specific problems has been for peer to peer support on the basis of unique individuals helping each other through rough spots for the good of the whole community. That, I can stand by! Does it actually happen here at Dims? I worked much better in a face-to-face setting at a NAAFA regional convention when I was doing a workshop...part of the support seems to get lost in the electron fog or something! Still, it is the model I have supported here for years and I will continue to back it.




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I like to think that women just haven't broken the glass ceiling keeping most of them out of the drug rehabs and prisons.
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:30 PM   #7
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I believe lifetimes of rejection and ostracization (even among people we consider "friends") has rendered many of us insecure husks of people. It's not only societal pressure, but internal pressure as well.

You look at people and you're jealous and envious of their slender bodies and ability to appear attractive to the public eye. Culture reinforces these ideas and you're left with a really deep-rooted outsider feeling. Almost like you operate solely on the outskirts of the world and that you will never be fully accepted or appreciated among people.

No matter how many times you try to tell yourself that it doesn't matter what people say or think about you, it affects you significantly.

At least in my case, I came here for acceptance both socially and romantically. Sure, the first year of my time here has been marred by my obsession with finding a female, but I feel like I've added to discussions and tried my damnedest to make friends/further ideas to the best of my abilities.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel like some people here preach understanding and acceptance, but they make this place so divisive by taking potshots at people in posts. They don't mention names, but you can discern who they're talking about by the vague descriptions they give. I've never personally attacked someone here, and I never would, but I resent the air of supposed "maturity" that some people claim while their criticisms and rude comments prove the exact opposite.

As I said many, many times before: I did not ask for my username to be deleted because I "found someone." That's retarded. It was a question of time allocation and an attempt to protect myself from people who could use information/pictures I posted here negatively. I don't really find that immature or offensive to this community.

I mean, honestly, I respond to almost every intelligent thread in this place and try to get in on the discussion.

Sorry about the offtopic rant thrown in there, but that bothers me.

Anyway, no, I don't find that BHMs are always on the verge of emotional collapse. There's up days and down days. I think that holds true for everyone ... fat or skinny. I mean, hell, it's not like insecurities and emotional distress are limited only to the fat community. It's just that society likes to make fat people the scapegoats, and doctors and professionals back them up on this. It's disheartening and unnecessary, but many things in life are. I just keep on trucking and trying to remember the good things that bring me happiness and a sense of belonging. However rare that feeling is, the fact that it's there does much to improve my morale about life in general.
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:56 PM   #8
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I'm going to veer a bit to bring in part of the discussion that Olwen was having in the other thread as well.

I'm quite far from any emotional collapse.. even in the worst of time's I've been nowhere near there, but like others have said you have your good and bad days.. It's the same as with anything else, like financial problems etc..

those the "go home crying".. I don't think it has anything to do with being a BHM, I think it's just character in general. If a women rejected my advances, I wouldn't even blink, or flinch.. I've been there ad nauseam. As a fat guy there are behaviors that I've learned that might come off as "Fragile", or better put as non-confident.
I don't flirt or try to pick up complete strangers, as much as I enjoy putting my hand in a fire, eventually you learn that you get burned.. So you don't repeat this process. It's quite the inverse, if you continue to put your hand in the fire, then you do have mental issues. Trial and error has taught me, that after I get to know someone the 100% rejection rate will start to fall, leaving me an opening. Women who are used to the "confident" male approach, would infer my behaviour as non-confident.. FFA's would probably interpret this even more so, since the pattern I've used is an attempt to sell other features, when they are expecting the "normal" behavior, since they're interested in the feature I'm not putting out on the showroom floor. Like i said before FFA's don't exist in real life, so why would I change my approach.
You could sum this rationale up for any of the percieved BHM fragilities, in as much as an FFA likes moobs, they aren't going to be swinging free in the air anytime soon.. 99.9% of the population have deemed them as evil as a hump or hairy back.. it's not a lack of confidence that keeps me hiding them, it's simply that I don't have the urge to be heckled..
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:27 PM   #9
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Can I just say that after reading what's been posted so far I feel like I'm learning so much. I love hearing the guys' perspectives on this and I hope more contribute.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ntwp View Post
Can I just say that after reading what's been posted so far I feel like I'm learning so much. I love hearing the guys' perspectives on this and I hope more contribute.
I too am learning and I hope they post more too. I'm just struck by how similar our experiences are and surprised by my surprise. I really had a duh moment.
Seems obvious now.

I've read some of the posts and almost cried because I could see myself in them. It's honestly not something I've thought much about since I've never really talked to a BHM about these things. Please guys keep posting.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:03 AM   #11
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Default Apparently, I am out of my rep for today

But all of you posters, consider yourselves repped. I'll try to catch up later.

The usually verbose Dr. P is going to just say that I really want to hear more from the BHM on this issue (and other issues), so I will respectfully sit back and "listen" and thank you all for sharing your thoughts with the board.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:59 AM   #12
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I have to agree that most people, inclusive of BHMs, are fragile on some level. We all have emotional baggage that never quite gets completely emptied - mostly, we put the bag on a top shelf and leave it there out of sight, but not out of mind. Who's to say that any one issue is more devastating than another, for one person or another? Not every one experiences and/or processes circumstances, situations and events, regardless of the nature, in the same manner.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:14 AM   #13
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Hmmm....Are BHMs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse. Some ways yes...some ways no.

Fragile compared to what? Any person substantially greater in size than "normal", just as a matter of existence day to day, pretty much has to have a substantially higher level of tolerance for the crap life throws at us. We not only get the typical life crap, we get the size related crap. But for the most part, we carry on.

On the edge of emotional collapse? Sometimes yes...sometimes no...in general, no more likely than anyone else having to deal with a lot of crap in their life.

In the end, I don't really see it as a BHM thing....it's a people of size thing.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:30 AM   #14
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well I have to say I have never been anywhere near emotional collapse. even when I had to have brain surgery. yes thats whats wrong with me.. but as for people judging me on looks heck I don't sweat that. I have family, friends who love me. so as for being a fragile flower nope..... more of a hard to break weed
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:52 AM   #15
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Like i said before FFA's don't exist in real life, so why would I change my approach.
Hi, PolarKat. I'm not sure what you mean by this ... FFAs don't exist in real life? :checks self; still exists ...:

If you are looking for FFAs who are single, that's another qualifying factor. However, perhaps it's not that there are "no" FFAs IRL; perhaps it's that many FFAs get "taken" very quickly? Or are already in established /long-term relationships? Or are single but not looking at the moment? Or are perhaps 10, 20 years older (or more)? Anyway, I do hope you find what you are looking for.

Re: confidence. To me, "confidence" doesn't have much to do with picking up strangers. As I see it, confidence shines out when a person is truly "centered" in their life, whatever they're doing. It doesn't come from a certain job, or having money, or being seen as conventionally "hot" (even w/in fat admiration circles.) Confidence, to me, is a product of strong character and of an inner sense of "rightness," of inner peace and "groundedness."

It's not something that can be bought; it isn't conveyed when one buys a certain product (although advertisers would like us to think so.) In my experience, it comes from mastering difficult things; from dealing with adversity. There is adversity to living as a fat man. While one person cannot "give" another one confidence, OTOH (and this is where the role of this BHM/FFA board comes in), people *can* help one another deal with the various adversities of being a fat man in a fat-hating world, as well as simply enjoying the fat men in their midst (and I am *not* speaking only of sexual attraction here.)
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:29 AM   #16
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Hi, PolarKat. I'm not sure what you mean by this ... FFAs don't exist in real life? :checks self; still exists ...:

If you are looking for FFAs who are single, that's another qualifying factor. However, perhaps it's not that there are "no" FFAs IRL; perhaps it's that many FFAs get "taken" very quickly? Or are already in established /long-term relationships? Or are single but not looking at the moment? Or are perhaps 10, 20 years older (or more)? Anyway, I do hope you find what you are looking for.
People say they see UFO's.. the lockness monster.. I've never seen them myself.. so I have to be a bit skeptical if they exist.. Until I see an FFA and I can apply the scientific method to determine their existance, and exact properties...
It's just an exaggeration. I never met one physically in my 35 years on this planet.. So placing bets to find one tommorow isn't realistic. It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..
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Old 05-06-2008, 06:29 AM   #17
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Fragile flower? On the verge of emotional collapse? No, not usually -- though when stressful life events get the better of me, things can get pretty crumbly.

Having grown up fat, and lived most of my life fat, I have had to learn to "roll with the punches" more than my thin compatriots. When I was younger, it was very easy to get down on myself and society whenever I experienced rejection, which was often. Let's face it, we don't live in a very fat-friendly society, and people have a tremendous facility for being cruel and narrow-minded. I don't think I need to expound on all of that -- it's all over these forums.

I think what has saved me more often than not, is having the courage and willingness to take a step back, and to remember that who and what I am is not contingent on anyone else's opinion. I am beautiful, strong, capable, compassionate, and loving, whether others recognize it or not. If my well-being hinged on others' acknowledgement, I'd have shriveled up and died years ago. This attitude has not come easily, though, and sometimes it doesn't come at all. It has taken a lot of practice, and still does.

And if I have a day where I can share a little joy and compassion with my fellow bruised, broken, and downtrodden humans? Golden.



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It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..
That'd be Diogenes.
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Old 05-06-2008, 07:30 AM   #18
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Hi

We still can carry heavy stuff
Which is good, with the bellies to haul around and all :-)

On topic, some BHM have had a shortage of stable, healthy, supportive relationships of any sort, and had too many incidents of being mocked, rejected or abused. Anyone who goes through that, for whatever reason--and lots of people have the same issues for non-fat reasons--is apt to carry some emotional and social scars from it. Some people will do pretty well despite those scars, some won't.

I think in general though you'll find BHM have less cockiness than the average guy, because they know there is something visible about them that will get them marked down in most people's assessment automatically. So I don't think you'll find as high a portion of BHM, even amongst those without past scars such as people who gained their weight as adults, who will just take whatever amount of crap and let it roll off them, confident in their own value and studliness.

Just my impressions.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:42 AM   #19
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People say they see UFO's.. the lockness monster.. I've never seen them myself.. so I have to be a bit skeptical if they exist.. Until I see an FFA and I can apply the scientific method to determine their existance, and exact properties...
It's just an exaggeration. I never met one physically in my 35 years on this planet.. So placing bets to find one tommorow isn't realistic. It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..
Dude, they exist. You're so used to not seeing them that you aren't seeing them. I would have said the same thing about FA's two years ago. Not today. Open up a little and let go of the negativity. Seriously. I had to do this myself. When I look back and see how negative I used to be because of all the rejection I experienced I'm appalled. My friends all tell me that being more positive is the biggest and most welcome change about me lately.

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Which is good, with the bellies to haul around and all :-)

On topic, some BHM have had a shortage of stable, healthy, supportive relationships of any sort, and had too many incidents of being mocked, rejected or abused. Anyone who goes through that, for whatever reason--and lots of people have the same issues for non-fat reasons--is apt to carry some emotional and social scars from it. Some people will do pretty well despite those scars, some won't.

I think in general though you'll find BHM have less cockiness than the average guy, because they know there is something visible about them that will get them marked down in most people's assessment automatically. So I don't think you'll find as high a portion of BHM, even amongst those without past scars such as people who gained their weight as adults, who will just take whatever amount of crap and let it roll off them, confident in their own value and studliness.

Just my impressions.
I think this is something all fat people go thru. All of us.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by missaf View Post
Haven't I told you before if you weren't buried in snow you'd see us FFAs?
You know.. that might actually be it.. when I look at the location of the FFA's they all tend to be in a warmer climate.. Could it be the FFA's fear or are alergic to the cold?
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:02 AM   #21
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I think this is something all fat people go thru. All of us.
To make a wild guess, I would not be surprised if around a third of the population has had some form of this. Fat. Some other physical feature. Stuttering. A learning disability. Poverty. Being a visible minority in your setting. Family background. Being a real nerd. Having a funny sounding name. Being very short or tall. Sometimes nothing anyone could put a finger on, yet they got harassed for years and years.

The thing is, while so many people go through some variant of this, for some portion of their life, almost by definition it is an individual hell, and I think the very act of realizing it is NOT really about you, and you are not alone in it, starts helping.

In high school I got into an enriched program. For the first year about half of the class spent our lunch breaks pretty much on our own--we were all used to be the odd strange nerdy one in the schools we'd come from, and we kept to those habits. But in the second year, one nice day I mustered up some nerve and asked one of the other guys if he'd like to toss around a frisbee. He would. The next day we asked another of this type. Within a week we had a dozen guys playing frisbee football every day at lunch and when we had spares. I think all but two of us had glasses, and those two (identical twins) had really bad acne (not that some of the others of us didn't have that too). I'd say half the group were amongst the 'last picks' in gym class for various reasons. But that didn't matter, we had a lot of fun. All of us had been pretty socially isolated at school before that, but it turned out that we were all pretty fun guys, once we got to know ourselves.

It remains one of my favorite things that I did, kicking the first pebble that started all of that in motion. And I think that group made all the members in it stronger, as social networks tend to do.

So yah, fat people go through that, but they aren't the only ones.
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:03 AM   #22
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Dude, they exist. You're so used to not seeing them that you aren't seeing them. I would have said the same thing about FA's two years ago. Not today. Open up a little and let go of the negativity. Seriously. I had to do this myself. When I look back and see how negative I used to be because of all the rejection I experienced I'm appalled. My friends all tell me that being more positive is the biggest and most welcome change about me lately.

I think this is something all fat people go thru. All of us.

I'm a little hard to read on text, I'm actually never 100% serious, unless I have to be, and I don't actually get mad, I always see any argument or debate as simplly 2 sets of views, where one tries to clarify a position to another in order to change an option. I never take anything personally unless it is intended as such... and I can switch views on a dime if need be. And I'm rarely negative.. and I suck at witty humor.. did I mention that?

So that wasn't actually negative.. it was actually mostly humor..with a bit of underlying truth.. like the scientific investigation part.. close examination of an FFA is something I would like to do in my lifetime.. I mean..it's for science and all!

Back to the serious.. The only place I've seen FFA's is here on Dims. Out and "enthusiastic" FA's I personally know a few, but never met any women that "liked the fat men". Maybe it's a regional or social thing that doesn't occur where I live.. Maybe like Missaf was saying.. I can't see them from under the snow.. or they wear camoflauge...
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:27 AM   #23
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Polarkat, Santa can't give you presents if you block off your chimney. Maybe you're just not letting the FFA's go down your chimney.
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:50 AM   #24
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Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Zandoz has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
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In general terms, I have to agree with PolarKat...based on personal experience, outside of sightings here on Dimensions, FFAs are mythical creatures. <shrug> And I don't live in the land of ice & snow...LOL
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:56 AM   #25
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Zandoz, that's what the internet is for!
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