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Old 06-23-2008, 01:53 AM   #26
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This is, of course, the problem of having a forum that can even have both a "Sex Talk" board and a "Health Talk" board on the exact same topic. Being overweight can be attractive to be many people, but it can also be a health risk if no precautions are taken. It probably would have been more helpful for the discussion if the OP knew if the woman in question had any health problems relating to her weight (he didn't indicate so), but his concern for someone who's undergone a huge weight gain resulting in some loss of mobility is I think understandable. At any weight, the body needs at least some level of activity to stay healthy, and he's seen this woman go from that point to a later one that would make that sort of activity quite difficult. It's important to be smart when gaining weight; do we really have shut our brains off here just because this place is considered a haven from the thin-obsessed world?

And I didn't like the Harper Valley PTA thing either; if caring for someone else is being stuck up and rigid, then...well, that's just not true. Being part of the human community means dealing with everybody's "value judgements", good or bad, and it's very foolish to just tune them all out.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by sweet&fat View Post
I think that the five doh's expresses the very real frustration that a good number of people feel in response to such comments. He is free to express how he feels, and TJ should be free to do the same. We don't have to like what each other says, but we do have to recognize and accept the fact that there are dissenting viewpoints.
I think what Conrad is saying is that the dissenting viewpoint should not assume that by 5 doh's everyone understands the logic behind the contrary view.

With so many new people visiting these forums, that viewpoint (while understood & agreed with by me) does not necessarily represent "the other side" of this issue.

Wry humor aside, there is a contrary view here that should be presented in a format that could at least be argued on its merits, rather than the "good ol' boy - you know what I mean" reaction.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:24 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Webmaster View Post
The point is it is not called for for you to pass value judgement on others. That simply makes you look like a member of the Harper Valley PTA.
Well, that's how it looks to *you*.

And I'm fine with that.

I know my intent, and I'd venture to say that many other women understood it too.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:48 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by TraciJo67 View Post
Well, that's how it looks to *you*.

And I'm fine with that.

I know my intent, and I'd venture to say that many other women understood it too.
<giggle>

I sent a mini-van over to you. It will be delivered tomorrow morning. It has a "I <3 fat soccer-moms" bumper sticker on it. Car seat in the back. Norm in '08 sticker and a "What would Wellstone do?" sticker just to keep 'em guessing.

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Old 06-23-2008, 07:48 AM   #30
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I think what Conrad is saying is that the dissenting viewpoint should not assume that by 5 doh's everyone understands the logic behind the contrary view.

With so many new people visiting these forums, that viewpoint (while understood & agreed with by me) does not necessarily represent "the other side" of this issue.

Wry humor aside, there is a contrary view here that should be presented in a format that could at least be argued on its merits, rather than the "good ol' boy - you know what I mean" reaction.
I get what you're saying, but is it necessary to edify the world every time you simply want to express frustration? I understood exactly what she meant, and I think it's a very honest, valid, and common reaction to such comments, whether people like that or not. Even if it is not "the other side" for all, it sure is a real side. And how is Conrad calling TJ a member of the Harper Valley PTA any better or less judgmental?
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:29 AM   #31
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It is in the general area for just that reason. The EWG subforum is the more strict area... he started this with a pro/con/troubles tone, so the general discussion area of the WB is where it's best served.
Thank you.. that is exactly how I saw it the first time around
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:42 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by TraciJo67 View Post
Well, that's how it looks to *you*.

And I'm fine with that.

I know my intent, and I'd venture to say that many other women understood it too.
This woman did.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:26 AM   #33
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You know, it's sometimes striking to me how often these sorts of discussions crop up here. I guess it's the uneasy dichotomy of Dims as a pro-fat/pro-fat sex board with a shitton of provocative material and pictures and Dims as a sort of feminist, pro-woman stronghold. I believe (and I could be wrong) that the site was started more as the former, and has naturally become as much the latter if not more. Probably a natural progression, considering that the concerns of fat women are in many ways a condensation or magnification of the concerns of women in general--i.e. body image, media manipulation, male cluelessness, etc.

I'm not sure exactly what my point is, other than pointing out the obvious. I think it's kind of funny and a bit sad when newbies come here drooling and typing with one hand, expecting fat porn, and then run into a wall of female/feminist disapproval. It's an interesting site.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:59 AM   #34
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Well, that's how it looks to *you*.

And I'm fine with that.

I know my intent, and I'd venture to say that many other women understood it too.
This one agrees with Conrad.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:00 AM   #35
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feminist, pro-woman stronghold.
But, is it really feminism if it cannot accept a woman's choice to do something (even if it is something that contradicts the "feminism" ideals)? I don't know that I'd call it a feminist stronghold.

Just my 2 centies.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:46 AM   #36
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boy that was well said....

some people believe feminism is only TRUE feminism if it holds to certain supposed "ideals". If a woman wants to work in the kitchen and raise 10 babies well then as long as she realizes she has a choice then it's her prerogative. Same goes for a woman becoming immobile. We don't know if it wasn't this womans choice to become that way. I also agree with Conrad, we really shouldn't be automatically passing judgement.

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But, is it really feminism if it cannot accept a woman's choice to do something (even if it is something that contradicts the "feminism" ideals)? I don't know that I'd call it a feminist stronghold.

Just my 2 centies.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:29 PM   #37
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boy that was well said....

some people believe feminism is only TRUE feminism if it holds to certain supposed "ideals". If a woman wants to work in the kitchen and raise 10 babies well then as long as she realizes she has a choice then it's her prerogative. Same goes for a woman becoming immobile. We don't know if it wasn't this womans choice to become that way. I also agree with Conrad, we really shouldn't be automatically passing judgement.
Just a point of clarification ... I am not judging the woman. As a formerly very fat woman with my own encroaching mobility issues, I can empathize with her situation, without judging how or why she got that way (it's not my freaking business). Her choice or not, though, I can readily identify with pain -- emotional or physical. It cannot be easy for this woman to have to rely on others to feed her, and a wheelchair to transport her -- completely aside from whether or not she enjoys the sexual/aethestic benefits of her fat body.

My point of objection was that the initial post wasn't about how "sexy" the woman was. It was a man expressing some feelings about witnessing someone reach the limits of her mobility, and how that made him feel.

Having someone chime in with how "hot" that would be, to witness what the OP described, just didn't seem appropriate to me. To say the least.

And had I not been scolded for what was a rather restrained response (for me, anyway) I would have left it at I do realize that this is the sexuality part of the board. Perhaps this thread should have been started elsewhere.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:33 PM   #38
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<giggle>

I sent a mini-van over to you. It will be delivered tomorrow morning. It has a "I <3 fat soccer-moms" bumper sticker on it. Car seat in the back. Norm in '08 sticker and a "What would Wellstone do?" sticker just to keep 'em guessing.

PTA: It is your future, m'lady. And yes, they have cookies AND cupcakes. $1 each. Sorry.
Keep the minivan, Sparkles. I need me a Geo Metro. Unless, of course, you're offering to pitch in for the gas ... in which case, I suppose I could compromise on the "Norm in '08" biz.

"WWWD" would, natch, be a very welcome accessory in its own right
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:02 PM   #39
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And how is Conrad calling TJ a member of the Harper Valley PTA any better or less judgmental?
IT's not any less judgmental, IMO. Fact of the matter is, though, that he owns this site, and can editorialize as much as he wants to.

Also, I understood what TJ meant with her "doh's", as I've seen enough of her posts to feel that I know her somewhat, albeit limited to matters of size acceptance, and other topics found in Dims.

I think we take for granted however, that there are countless newbies who come here and have no iidea what the hell we're talking about, since they don't understand the background of the poster.

Just sayin'..................................
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:06 PM   #40
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the person also said that he didn't mean to be wrong for saying it... sometimes a persons sexual fantasies can be contradictory to the reality of a situation. Lord knows we've seen that a lot all over these boards. Should he be hung out to dry for it? no...should he have necessarily posted that in this thread? probably not.

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My point of objection was that the initial post wasn't about how "sexy" the woman was. It was a man expressing some feelings about witnessing someone reach the limits of her mobility, and how that made him feel.

Having someone chime in with how "hot" that would be, to witness what the OP described, just didn't seem appropriate to me. To say the least.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:18 PM   #41
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the person also said that he didn't mean to be wrong for saying it... sometimes a persons sexual fantasies can be contradictory to the reality of a situation. Lord knows we've seen that a lot all over these boards. Should he be hung out to dry for it? no...should he have necessarily posted that in this thread? probably not.
I don't think he was hung out to dry on it.

My internal reaction to that second post was similar to Traci-Jo's, and I tried about three times to write it down, but we are capped at something like 8 emoticons, and words just didn't do it justice. I thought she showed great restraint in only using 5 of them

Seriously, it wasn't just the second post on its own, it was the contrast between the two. The OP made it clear he saw this as troubling, described it really not an erotic way, and it seemed a pretty clear illustration of fantasy running into reality. Then the response came that seemed to totally miss that essential point of the whole thing. It came across a bit like someone coming out of "Super-Size Me" and saying only "Wow, I wish someone would pay me to eat out for a month." How to express the frustration any more clearly than smacking your forehead, even if just in an illustration?

And yes, I agree that it is important to keep freedom to talk about fat and eroticism on the weight board, and limit the criticism. But at least to me this was not a case of someone attacking someone simply for being a feeder.

Regards;

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Old 06-23-2008, 02:42 PM   #42
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the person also said that he didn't mean to be wrong for saying it... sometimes a persons sexual fantasies can be contradictory to the reality of a situation. Lord knows we've seen that a lot all over these boards. Should he be hung out to dry for it? no...should he have necessarily posted that in this thread? probably not.
A *lot* of people's sexual fantasies are contradictory to the reality of a situation. I wouldn't go to a "rape survivors" board and share fantasies of being violated. I wouldn't go to a "recovery from cancer" board and wax on about how much surgical scars turn me on.

And I wouldn't discuss how "hot" it is that a woman is incapacitated by her body size.

I have many evil thoughts that I keep to myself. So long as they remain locked firmly away in my mind, nobody can pass judgment on them.

If/when I share them publicly, I'm going to have to expect that some people will be disgusted and/or horrified ... especially if I pay no attention to context.

Finally, the "Harper Valley" reference was a bit before my time. I actually had to google it to figure out what Conrad was talking about. This isn't about jealousy, nor is it about any hypocrisy on my part. What bothered me about that first response to the OP's original post is the same issue that gnaws at me every time I see it.

I understand, respect, and appreciate love for the fat female body. I find soft, rounded curves to be aethestically pleasing myself. I know of many fine men who post at Dims, and they are as hard-wired to their preferences as I am to mine. There is a world of difference between objectifying and respecting, though. I hate to see the former, and worse, I hate to see defense of that kind of behavior. Would we defend a pedophile for his actions? How about a man who searches out the latest accident victims because he has a fetish for amputees?

If not, then why rush to the defense of someone who finds immobility and reliance upon others for basic human needs to be sexy?
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #43
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that's a bit over the top wouldn't you say? comparing someone expressing they are turned on by an immobile woman to that of expressing desires of rape in a forum for victims? I don't think this is a forum for victims ...I'm not sure why so many people go to such extreme's to prove a point here.

The poster probably shouldn't have posted in this thread, but i see no point in going to this extreme...there are many men here who have expressed that they are turned on by immobility. So it shouldn't be such a shock. No he wasn't being delicate to the original poster's intention, but geeze..c'mon

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A *lot* of people's sexual fantasies are contradictory to the reality of a situation. I wouldn't go to a "rape survivors" board and share fantasies of being violated. I wouldn't go to a "recovery from cancer" board and wax on about how much surgical scars turn me on.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:02 PM   #44
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that's a bit over the top wouldn't you say? comparing someone expressing they are turned on by an immobile woman to that of expressing desires of rape? I'm not sure why so many people go to such extreme's to prove a point here.

The poster probably shouldn't have posted in this thread, but i see no point in going to this extreme...there are many men here who have expressed that they are turned on by immobility. So it shouldn't be such a shock. No he wasn't being delicate to the original poster's intention, but geeze..c'mon
I don't think that you understood the point I was trying to make at all.

I'm not going to clarify. I was clear enough the first few times.

I've said what I wanted to say about this issue, and now it's (far past) time to move on.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by wrestlingguy View Post
IT's not any less judgmental, IMO. Fact of the matter is, though, that he owns this site, and can editorialize as much as he wants to.
I very rarely invoke that right. However, if I see a persistent pattern of dissing others in inappropriate places, I issue a warning. I do not wish for posters to be intimidated into not posting for fear someone will tear into them or mock them.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:38 PM   #46
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I just PM'ed Roy and hope he gets back to me. I asked him if he would like to restart this thread on the health board and offered to help him if he is interested in doing so.
Let's see if we can discuss the reality of immobilization over there....
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:19 PM   #47
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which is really very generous ...ya know, being that if it weren't for you we wouldn't have a place to DEMAND our right to speak, in any forum period lol

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I very rarely invoke that right. However, if I see a persistent pattern of dissing others in inappropriate places, I issue a warning. I do not wish for posters to be intimidated into not posting for fear someone will tear into them or mock them.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #48
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In TraciJo's defense she was a lot nicer than I would have been.
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:46 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by wrestlingguy View Post
IT's not any less judgmental, IMO. Fact of the matter is, though, that he owns this site, and can editorialize as much as he wants to.

Also, I understood what TJ meant with her "doh's", as I've seen enough of her posts to feel that I know her somewhat, albeit limited to matters of size acceptance, and other topics found in Dims.

I think we take for granted however, that there are countless newbies who come here and have no iidea what the hell we're talking about, since they don't understand the background of the poster.

Just sayin'..................................
Yeah, and a lot of people on here have this "eh, the newbies need to pay their dues and keep their mouths shut until they're around for a while" attitude and I personally think thats a bunch of you know what.

I know a lot of people around here have trust issues, especially in the light of the Loves situation from months ago, but newbies aren't always guys that read off "how much do you weigh" questions from a list, they could be like you and me and could contribute positively to the board.

As I stated before, the OP's situation is he's concerned about the mobility of his friend, he never said anything about wanting her to be immobile. His concern is not misplaced either in my opinion.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:15 PM   #50
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In TraciJo's defense she was a lot nicer than I would have been.
Would you have included some explanation in your attack, as opposed to a wordless "oh god, not this again" that does just as much good spoken aloud in the room as it does expressed in smileys on the board?
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