Third and final debate -- dare I even ask?

LalaCity · 10-15-2008, 09:08 PM

I confess, I watched this one in a bar -- so I'm not so sure how it went. What I get from the coverage is that Obama held steady, McCain scored no game-changing points. In other words, nothing to change the pro-Obama momentum...unless C Side BBW Lover has something to say on the matter...

edit: who the hell is Joe The Plumber???

TraciJo67 · 10-15-2008, 09:19 PM

I was glad to see McCain take a shot at Obama for his "more of the same" line of reasoning.

I don't support McCain -- in fact, I am voting for Obama, because his version of how America should be run is more in alignment with my personal beliefs. I do not feel that "trickle down" economics work, and that seems to be a classic McCain stance.

Clearly, though ... the man is no Dubya. His voting record doesn't reflect it, nor do many of the principles that he has outlined. I'm tired of listening to Obama trotting out that ... well, tired line.

I do think that both candidates did an exceptional job. Both appeared calm and relatively unflappable. I don't think that this was a knock-out punch for either candidate -- unlikely to sway voters who were already firmly in one camp or another. Those on the fence, though ... I'd venture a guess that Obama would be their candidate ... simply because McCain took more swipes, and Obama didn't appear to rise to the bait. Had he been a less eloquent speaker, that probably wouldn't be the case.

kilo riley · 10-15-2008, 09:23 PM

i thought McCain came out swinging and thought he was going to win the debate(whatever win means) but Obama was steady and slowly chipped away at him to where it was basically a draw. It was kind've a microcosm of the campaign..McCain was a bit erratic,landed a few, missed a few while Obama was steady and focused with quick wit when necessary and a calm tempermant throughout.

The Joe the plumber meme could have some momentum to it but i think people just like Obama more than they like McCain. McCain is the guy that yells at you cuz you're tennis ball landed in his yard.

Spanky · 10-15-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraciJo67

I was glad to see McCain take a shot at Obama for his "more of the same" line of reasoning.

I don't support McCain -- in fact, I am voting for Obama, because his version of how America should be run is more in alignment with my personal beliefs. I do not feel that "trickle down" economics work, and that seems to be a classic McCain stance.

Clearly, though ... the man is no Dubya. His voting record doesn't reflect it, nor do many of the principles that he has outlined. I'm tired of listening to Obama trotting out that ... well, tired line.

I do think that both candidates did an exceptional job. Both appeared calm and relatively unflappable. I don't think that this was a knock-out punch for either candidate -- unlikely to sway voters who were already firmly in one camp or another. Those on the fence, though ... I'd venture a guess that Obama would be their candidate ... simply because McCain took more swipes, and Obama didn't appear to rise to the bait. Had he been a less eloquent speaker, that probably wouldn't be the case.

Oh, TraciLouHoo, do you know what they call an Obama supporter in Minnesota??

A conservative.

kilo riley · 10-15-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraciJo67

I was glad to see McCain take a shot at Obama for his "more of the same" line of reasoning.

I don't support McCain -- in fact, I am voting for Obama, because his version of how America should be run is more in alignment with my personal beliefs. I do not feel that "trickle down" economics work, and that seems to be a classic McCain stance.

Clearly, though ... the man is no Dubya. His voting record doesn't reflect it, nor do many of the principles that he has outlined. I'm tired of listening to Obama trotting out that ... well, tired line.

I do think that both candidates did an exceptional job. Both appeared calm and relatively unflappable. I don't think that this was a knock-out punch for either candidate -- unlikely to sway voters who were already firmly in one camp or another. Those on the fence, though ... I'd venture a guess that Obama would be their candidate ... simply because McCain took more swipes, and Obama didn't appear to rise to the bait. Had he been a less eloquent speaker, that probably wouldn't be the case.

they trot it out because it's done well in polling. All politcians do polling on these talking points and then use the ones that poll well over and over.

and I disagree ..McCain of 2008 is not the McCain of 2000..The McCain is not much different than Bush.

kilo riley · 10-15-2008, 09:27 PM

anyone see michelle obama at the end of the debate?

lets just say the campaign trail has done wonders for her waistline.

Tina · 10-15-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LalaCity

edit: who the hell is Joe The Plumber???

Joe Six-Pack's cousin.

Edens_heel · 10-15-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tina

Joe Six-Pack's cousin.

Joe Six Pack? I love that guy! So dependable and ubiquitous, I swear he was my neighbour! Hell, he might even be me! I love it when someone can really get down to the nitty gritty of all that is me...

On a side note, anyone else listen to Sarah Palin and instead they only hear Frances McDormand from Fargo? I cant be going insane here, right?

Tina · 10-15-2008, 11:56 PM

Ha! I thought that, too, Eden's.

She'll never be Frances Mc Dormand, though.

mossystate · 10-16-2008, 12:04 AM

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...oted_with.html

Sooooo....actually, it is true....there are other lil bits of info in there as well...the fact that not all of it has been used, does not make the one claim less true.

Oh..and...Fargo meets Peggy Hill, from King Of The Hill.....

Les Toil · 10-16-2008, 12:24 AM

Without a doubt this was the worse McCain looked in all three debates. He was whiney like a spoiled brat and constantly pointed his proverbial finger at his opponent instead of giving the country what we so desperately wanted to hear: Solutions. He came off as a desperate little man pleading for his life. His tactics were absolutely abominable and OBVIOUS. And let's not forget his assinine assholish use of the term "Pro Abortion" no more than three seconds after Obama said "NO ONE on this planet is pro abortion". And even though Senator Obama spent half the time having to address and defend McCain's constant barrage of accusations, I was so incredibly proud of him for begging for a cease fire on the character attacks so ALL of our attention could be directed towards solving this monumental financial fiasco. I just wanted to shake old man McCain and say "Dude! We're fuckin' dying here!! Don't you get it??". The ironic thing is, it was McCain that wanted to postpone the first debate so they could work on the financial fallout--and now here's Obama telling McCain that we have to direct all of our attention at what's most crucial.

kilo riley · 10-16-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Toil

Without a doubt this was the worse McCain looked in all three debates. He was whiney like a spoiled brat and constantly pointed his proverbial finger at his opponent instead of giving the country what we so desperately wanted to hear: Solutions. He came off as a desperate little man pleading for his life. His tactics were absolutely abominable and OBVIOUS. And let's not forget his assinine assholish use of the term "Pro Abortion" no more than three seconds after Obama said "NO ONE on this planet is pro abortion". And even though Senator Obama spent half the time having to address and defend McCain's constant barrage of accusations, I was so incredibly proud of him for begging for a cease fire on the character attacks so ALL of our attention could be directed towards solving this monumental financial fiasco. I just wanted to shake old man McCain and say "Dude! We're fuckin' dying here!! Don't you get it??". The ironic thing is, it was McCain that wanted to postpone the first debate so they could work on the financial fallout--and now here's Obama telling McCain that we have to direct all of our attention at what's most crucial.

i dunno...i gotta vote he looked worse during the second debate when he was "wandering the outer reaches of the stage"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_133775.html

garbled · 10-16-2008, 02:57 AM

I have just watched it here,(its shown about 9am local time) McCain needed a big performance he didnt pull it off, the polls have been telling him negative isnt playing well with indedpendent voters, so guess what he is even more negative, the public in general dont care about william ayers, they care about the number of dollars in their pocket and what they can afford to buy with them.
it looked more like an attempt to hold onto the core vote and avoid a total humiliation and with rumours that both Colin Powell and Michael Bloomberg are to endorse Obama on the half hour prime time slot he has bought its looking grim for McCain.

BBW Betty · 10-16-2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LalaCity

edit: who the hell is Joe The Plumber???

Check out the last portion of this:

http://portal.tds.net/news/read.php?...ARSDCCLM_UNEWS

Miss Vickie · 10-16-2008, 06:07 AM

Maybe it's just because I was exhausted from a busy week at work but I thought it was... meh. I liked the town hall style debate a LOT better. I thought that the moderator could have been a little firmer in keeping them on topic and I got a little tired of the attacks. I confess that I'm biased but I thought that McCain looked a little desperate, taking every chance to attack Obama even when it was unrelated to the topic at hand. Stuff like, 'Oh and he'll raise your taxes!' 'And he hangs out with that Bill Ayers!' 'I'll cut your taxes' over and over again. It got old, especially when he was saying things that have been proven wrong.

And the Joe the Plumber thing? Please! If the guy makes over $250k, I don't feel sorry for him. I make less than 1/5 of that and I've had four years of college and hold people's lives in my hands. So boo, freakin', hoo if he pays more taxes. The only thing I do agree with McCain on is the need for more community health centers. He's got my absolute support there. We have one clinic here in Anchorage and they're so booked up you can never get in. Seattle had several but still -- they were swamped and I can only imagine that they're worse now. So clearly, community health centers -- including mental health centers, which BTW Reagan closed in his tenure as President -- are a good thing.

So, while some of it was interesting, it didn't change my mind, but then I wasn't expecting it to. I should've just watched The Daily Show that I had tivo'd.

fffff · 10-16-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Vickie

The only thing I do agree with McCain on is the need for more community health centers. He's got my absolute support there.

But how is he going to build more community centers with a complete spending freeze?

I was watching the split screen format; at certain times it looked like mccain was having a seizure or about to explode.

Rojodi · 10-16-2008, 06:24 AM

Joe the Plumber is complaining about the business he'll be BUYING would be taxed because it's going to be over $250K? Dude, in this economy, if you can AFFORD to buy a business like that, you CAN afford the possible extra taxes!!

Jane · 10-16-2008, 06:52 AM

I want moderators to have a big ol' airhorn they blow in their faces when they carry on and on just to stay before the camera.

I want to wipe that "Bush-like" smirk off McCain's face when he thinks he's made a point. Statesman, man, statesman.

Someone should have given McCain an anti-histamine before the debate. I thought if I had to hear him clear his throat, or suck his phlegm one more time I was going to puke...and I've been coughing for a month.

The most interesting part to me was watching the other candidate when whoever was speaking. McCain is making monkey faces, rolling his eyes, etc.

McCain edged Obama out in this one, but he DID NOT have the knockout punch he needed to deliver. So all in all I have to call this:

Debate...McCain by a nose
Election...Obama by a nice majority

TraciJo67 · 10-16-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilo riley

they trot it out because it's done well in polling. All politcians do polling on these talking points and then use the ones that poll well over and over.

and I disagree ..McCain of 2008 is not the McCain of 2000..The McCain is not much different than Bush.

I should have qualified my statement.

McCain is a true Republican. It's not surprising that he'd vote with Bush & Co most of the time ... but he's also demonstrated the ability to move away from the pack on certain issues, too. I agree with his reasoning behind voting against the Bush tax cuts (though of course, he's now distanced himself from that ... can't effectively run for office while telling the American people the truth -- that either candidate, despite their promises & reassurance, will most definitely *raise* taxes). He voted "yes" on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines, and against constitutional bans on same-sex marriage. He has been an outspoken critic of earmarks/pork barrel spending.

That's pretty much where we part ways.

I disagree with him on so many other issues, such as his stance on the war in Iraq, his position on Roe v Wade & abortion in general, his views about foreign policy, his overlaying principles of less government/more incentives to the wealthy (coz, don'tcha know, they'll share it), and his choice of running mate. Hoo boy. Palin. Fundies 'R Us. A return to the glory days of Phyllis Schlafly and her Moral Majority. McCain is no Bush ... I'd liken him more to a Reagan

Having said that, though ... my only point was that I'm so tired of disingenuous statements on *both* sides.

I think they should both be forced to wear gigantic buttons with bold, flashing letters spelling out "It's the ECONOMY, stupid!"

and

Tad · 10-16-2008, 10:21 AM

Dang, I have to spread more rep around before giving any more to TraciJo right now.

Thanks for the awesome summary

I was too burned out and bummed out from our election to muster the energy to watch your debates, but I was curious.

Best quip I've seen about the debate: "McCain has reached the denial portion of the grieving process...." (no idea if it is accurate, but I thought it was snappy).

GWARrior · 10-16-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edens_heel

On a side note, anyone else listen to Sarah Palin and instead they only hear Frances McDormand from Fargo? I cant be going insane here, right?

Speaking of Palin's accent, I just heard some linguist talk about it on NPR. He said her accent changes pretty noticeabley depending on her audience.

When she's talking to the "people of America" at one of her campaign stops, she adopts a more country accent, dropping g's and the like. But when shes talking to government people and when she did the VP debate, she had a more reserved accent and pronounced her g's more.

She annoys me either way. ha

Keb · 10-16-2008, 11:05 AM

I think most people adjust their accents slightly depending on their audience or the company they are with. I know I do--when I'm with people with a southern accent, I find myself drawling more, when I was in England I pronounced my t's more precisely, when I'm at a Renn Faire I have an easier time adopting a Renny accent (which is meant to portray Elizabethan but is probably a class all of its own). Though I don't try to talk down to children, I can hear my voice go up in pitch when I switch from speaking to an adult to speaking to a child, and I both adjust my vocabulary (short words aren't always better, but common words are) and slow my speech when I'm speaking to someone who is clearly not a native English speaker (after much practice from teaching English in a foreign country for a couple years).

So it may not even be a concious thing that she spoke differently in different settings. Unlike politicians who have been known to, say, change the color of their hair depending on whether they are speaking to a senior citizens group or a younger crowd. (I remember Bill Clinton being accused of this in the early 90's.)

fatgirlflyin · 10-16-2008, 11:14 AM

I've watched all 3 debates and I don't think that either candidate won any votes that they didn't already have in any of the debates.

I got a bit upset during different parts of last nights debate but the most frustrating part for me was when they were discussing abortion and Mcain went on about how he was an adoptive father and how we should help people with the adoption process here instead of abortion.

I actually yelled at the tv, "you adopted a baby from another country!" I get so angry when people, men especially say that adoption should be the first choice. Dont want to have a baby? Don't abort it, just put it up for adoption. Even more frustrating is when those very same people who place adoption on a pedastle saying it should be a #1 choice have adopted a baby from another country, not a child from this country, who's mother chose to put it up for adoption and not abort.

I also didn't like how he kept pointing out that Palins kid had down syndrome.

mossystate · 10-16-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ella Bella

I also didn't like how he kept pointing out that Palins kid had down syndrome.

They are using that kid. It pisses me off.

Jane · 10-16-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossystate

They are using that kid. It pisses me off.

Bur McCain thought he had autism. Palin has a nephew who is autistic. Don't you think that would have been nice to mention?

10-15-2008, 11:56 PM	#9
Tina Di's claimed me. :) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: location, location. Posts: 20,592	Ha! I thought that, too, Eden's. She'll never be Frances Mc Dormand, though. __________________ "It is possible to believe in something and still fail to live up to it." -- Wilson, House M.D. "I'm really tired of a fat woman's sexuality being just another fat joke." -- Felicia/Supero "Sookie! I am so over Sookie and her precious fairy vagina and her unbelievably stupid name! Fuck Sookie!" -- Pam

10-16-2008, 12:24 AM	#11
Les Toil On Timeout Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 2,414	Without a doubt this was the worse McCain looked in all three debates. He was whiney like a spoiled brat and constantly pointed his proverbial finger at his opponent instead of giving the country what we so desperately wanted to hear: Solutions. He came off as a desperate little man pleading for his life. His tactics were absolutely abominable and OBVIOUS. And let's not forget his assinine assholish use of the term "Pro Abortion" no more than three seconds after Obama said "NO ONE on this planet is pro abortion". And even though Senator Obama spent half the time having to address and defend McCain's constant barrage of accusations, I was so incredibly proud of him for begging for a cease fire on the character attacks so ALL of our attention could be directed towards solving this monumental financial fiasco. I just wanted to shake old man McCain and say "Dude! We're fuckin' dying here!! Don't you get it??". The ironic thing is, it was McCain that wanted to postpone the first debate so they could work on the financial fallout--and now here's Obama telling McCain that we have to direct all of our attention at what's most crucial. Last edited by Les Toil : 10-16-2008 at 12:34 AM.

10-16-2008, 06:52 AM	#18
Jane Photo (c) Fatlane Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tangled up in Blue Posts: 9,186	I want moderators to have a big ol' airhorn they blow in their faces when they carry on and on just to stay before the camera. I want to wipe that "Bush-like" smirk off McCain's face when he thinks he's made a point. Statesman, man, statesman. Someone should have given McCain an anti-histamine before the debate. I thought if I had to hear him clear his throat, or suck his phlegm one more time I was going to puke...and I've been coughing for a month. The most interesting part to me was watching the other candidate when whoever was speaking. McCain is making monkey faces, rolling his eyes, etc. McCain edged Obama out in this one, but he DID NOT have the knockout punch he needed to deliver. So all in all I have to call this: Debate...McCain by a nose Election...Obama by a nice majority __________________ "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." ~ Edward R. Murrow

10-16-2008, 10:21 AM	#20
Tad mostly harmless Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,763	Dang, I have to spread more rep around before giving any more to TraciJo right now. Thanks for the awesome summary I was too burned out and bummed out from our election to muster the energy to watch your debates, but I was curious. Best quip I've seen about the debate: "McCain has reached the denial portion of the grieving process...." (no idea if it is accurate, but I thought it was snappy). __________________ “I think, at a child's birth, if a mother could ask a fairy godmother to endow it with the most useful gift, that gift would be curiosity." --Eleanor Roosevelt

10-16-2008, 11:05 AM	#22
Keb Princess Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,490	I think most people adjust their accents slightly depending on their audience or the company they are with. I know I do--when I'm with people with a southern accent, I find myself drawling more, when I was in England I pronounced my t's more precisely, when I'm at a Renn Faire I have an easier time adopting a Renny accent (which is meant to portray Elizabethan but is probably a class all of its own). Though I don't try to talk down to children, I can hear my voice go up in pitch when I switch from speaking to an adult to speaking to a child, and I both adjust my vocabulary (short words aren't always better, but common words are) and slow my speech when I'm speaking to someone who is clearly not a native English speaker (after much practice from teaching English in a foreign country for a couple years). So it may not even be a concious thing that she spoke differently in different settings. Unlike politicians who have been known to, say, change the color of their hair depending on whether they are speaking to a senior citizens group or a younger crowd. (I remember Bill Clinton being accused of this in the early 90's.) __________________ Happiness is making others happy.

10-15-2008, 09:08 PM	#1
LalaCity Master Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,822	Third and final debate -- dare I even ask? I confess, I watched this one in a bar -- so I'm not so sure how it went. What I get from the coverage is that Obama held steady, McCain scored no game-changing points. In other words, nothing to change the pro-Obama momentum...unless C Side BBW Lover has something to say on the matter... edit: who the hell is Joe The Plumber??? Last edited by LalaCity : 10-15-2008 at 09:17 PM.

10-15-2008, 09:19 PM	#2
TraciJo67 On Timeout Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Minnesoooota Posts: 7,006	I was glad to see McCain take a shot at Obama for his "more of the same" line of reasoning. I don't support McCain -- in fact, I am voting for Obama, because his version of how America should be run is more in alignment with my personal beliefs. I do not feel that "trickle down" economics work, and that seems to be a classic McCain stance. Clearly, though ... the man is no Dubya. His voting record doesn't reflect it, nor do many of the principles that he has outlined. I'm tired of listening to Obama trotting out that ... well, tired line. I do think that both candidates did an exceptional job. Both appeared calm and relatively unflappable. I don't think that this was a knock-out punch for either candidate -- unlikely to sway voters who were already firmly in one camp or another. Those on the fence, though ... I'd venture a guess that Obama would be their candidate ... simply because McCain took more swipes, and Obama didn't appear to rise to the bait. Had he been a less eloquent speaker, that probably wouldn't be the case.

10-15-2008, 09:23 PM	#3
kilo riley Master Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,134	i thought McCain came out swinging and thought he was going to win the debate(whatever win means) but Obama was steady and slowly chipped away at him to where it was basically a draw. It was kind've a microcosm of the campaign..McCain was a bit erratic,landed a few, missed a few while Obama was steady and focused with quick wit when necessary and a calm tempermant throughout. The Joe the plumber meme could have some momentum to it but i think people just like Obama more than they like McCain. McCain is the guy that yells at you cuz you're tennis ball landed in his yard.

10-15-2008, 09:27 PM	#6
kilo riley Master Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,134	anyone see michelle obama at the end of the debate? lets just say the campaign trail has done wonders for her waistline.

10-16-2008, 12:04 AM	#10
mossystate flicks a booger on conrad Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13,127	http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...oted_with.html Sooooo....actually, it is true....there are other lil bits of info in there as well...the fact that not all of it has been used, does not make the one claim less true. Oh..and...Fargo meets Peggy Hill, from King Of The Hill.....

10-16-2008, 02:57 AM	#13
garbled fighting the fight Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 176	I have just watched it here,(its shown about 9am local time) McCain needed a big performance he didnt pull it off, the polls have been telling him negative isnt playing well with indedpendent voters, so guess what he is even more negative, the public in general dont care about william ayers, they care about the number of dollars in their pocket and what they can afford to buy with them. it looked more like an attempt to hold onto the core vote and avoid a total humiliation and with rumours that both Colin Powell and Michael Bloomberg are to endorse Obama on the half hour prime time slot he has bought its looking grim for McCain.

10-16-2008, 06:07 AM	#15
Miss Vickie Executive Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,951	Maybe it's just because I was exhausted from a busy week at work but I thought it was... meh. I liked the town hall style debate a LOT better. I thought that the moderator could have been a little firmer in keeping them on topic and I got a little tired of the attacks. I confess that I'm biased but I thought that McCain looked a little desperate, taking every chance to attack Obama even when it was unrelated to the topic at hand. Stuff like, 'Oh and he'll raise your taxes!' 'And he hangs out with that Bill Ayers!' 'I'll cut your taxes' over and over again. It got old, especially when he was saying things that have been proven wrong. And the Joe the Plumber thing? Please! If the guy makes over $250k, I don't feel sorry for him. I make less than 1/5 of that and I've had four years of college and hold people's lives in my hands. So boo, freakin', hoo if he pays more taxes. The only thing I do agree with McCain on is the need for more community health centers. He's got my absolute support there. We have one clinic here in Anchorage and they're so booked up you can never get in. Seattle had several but still -- they were swamped and I can only imagine that they're worse now. So clearly, community health centers -- including mental health centers, which BTW Reagan closed in his tenure as President -- are a good thing. So, while some of it was interesting, it didn't change my mind, but then I wasn't expecting it to. I should've just watched The Daily Show that I had tivo'd.

10-16-2008, 06:24 AM	#17
Rojodi Master Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,384	Joe the Plumber is complaining about the business he'll be BUYING would be taxed because it's going to be over $250K? Dude, in this economy, if you can AFFORD to buy a business like that, you CAN afford the possible extra taxes!!

10-16-2008, 11:14 AM	#23
fatgirlflyin needs a vacation Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 3,902	I've watched all 3 debates and I don't think that either candidate won any votes that they didn't already have in any of the debates. I got a bit upset during different parts of last nights debate but the most frustrating part for me was when they were discussing abortion and Mcain went on about how he was an adoptive father and how we should help people with the adoption process here instead of abortion. I actually yelled at the tv, "you adopted a baby from another country!" I get so angry when people, men especially say that adoption should be the first choice. Dont want to have a baby? Don't abort it, just put it up for adoption. Even more frustrating is when those very same people who place adoption on a pedastle saying it should be a #1 choice have adopted a baby from another country, not a child from this country, who's mother chose to put it up for adoption and not abort. I also didn't like how he kept pointing out that Palins kid had down syndrome. __________________ Keep on keeping on...

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