online hoax suicide goes to trial

[Ernest Nagel]

Hoax Turned Fatal Draws Anger But No Charges (NYT)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/us...7ca&ei=5087%0A

I'm beyond words here. I mean WTF?!?!? An adult maliciously sets out to manipulate a 13 yr old girl into suicide and there's nothing anyone can do? Don't read this if you're not willing to be totally disgusted, outraged and/or depressed.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this? As a warning to watch your kids? Some way to discharge my futile indignation? A "There oughta be a law" rant?

I don't know why this had such a profound impact on me but I was just perusing random articles while on another interminable conf. call and I actually had to drop off the call. I was physically sick. I've seen way more than my share of demented and perverse stuff but THIS??? Why is it so disturbing?

[Jes]

there's been much talk about this in recent weeks... There are names and addresses of members of the judicial branch of the gov't in that town to whom, if you feel inclined, you can bring your concerns, and requests for further action.

I don't imagine anything they did was against the law. Who hasn't been an asshole, online? Who hasn't faked facts, or outright lied, online? That's what's so unfortunate, here.

The one thing I feel that MIGHT have legs is if Crazy did any 'dirty talk' as the 16 year old Josh. That would obviously be wrong, in that the victim was underage. But I doubt much of that took place. The victim's mom seems to have been too controlling (not inappropriately so, don't get me wrong) to have allowed endless dirty talk IM sessions to go on.

The names of the people who did this are allover the internet and so while they won't face legal action, they're getting theirs tonight. Don't you worry about that.

[kr7]

Although there doesn't seem to be any criminal charges that this person can be brought to answer, I do hope that the family can file a civil suit against her. It is beyond ridiculous that the extent of this person's punishment should begin and end with having to deal with a few angry neighbors.

Chris

[SparklingBBW]

I know it wouldn't carry the same weight in the ability to punish these people for what has transpired as a homicide or manslaughter charge, but I would think at least, at the very least, they should be charged with contributing to the deliquency of a minor.

These are supposed "grown-ups" who chose to involve themselves in this poor child's life. Just like there is an inherent power difference between adults and children in sexual issues and an inherent difference between adults and children who commit like crimes, it should be reinforced here that one party was an adult and the other party wasn't, and the grown-up should bear the responsibility for the outcome of the situation.

I am continually upset with the pervasive culture that we live in that encourages children to act like, dress like, live life, make choices for themselves like adults do, when they are in fact still children! They haven't lived long enough or experienced enough or put in enough time to realize the ramifications of their actions or have the emotional stability to deal with the ups and downs that life can bring, especially when dealing with people who might not have your best interests at heart. They are still growing! Their brains are still growing! They are guaranteed to be emotionally stunted in some way because, hello, they are still growing! Frankly I even thing 18 is too young to be considered fully grown, but I realize I'm probably in the minority with that thought.

Anyway, those adults acted irresponsibly and should have known better. I hope they can figure out a way to hold them at least partially responsible for this poor girls senseless and needless death.

Rant over
Gena

[Jes]

Originally Posted by kr7

Although there doesn't seem to be any criminal charges that this person can be brought to answer, I do hope that the family can file a civil suit against her. It is beyond ridiculous that the extent of this person's punishment should begin and end with having to deal with a few angry neighbors.

Chris

the laws against harassment are terrible. I think we all know that. And they're especially bad vis a vis new media (i remember some years ago watching a 20/20 type program about a man who'd entered a woman's home and put cameras allover. he had hundreds of hours of footage of her. And it wasn't illegal. I think it was a neighbor--not evne someone she'd let into her home!). I think the law, and its need for precedent, doesn't move very quickly, leaving the opposite of a bleeding edge!

I'm not sure what charges could be filed, even for a civil suit....

[kr7]

Originally Posted by Jes

......I'm not sure what charges could be filed, even for a civil suit....

Hopefully, with the right lawyer, a wrongful death suit. It's a maybe, but again, if they could find a good lawyer and depending on the details of what actually transpired, it is a possibility.

Chris

[Jane]

Were it my child, that woman would never draw a peaceful breath the balance of her life. Laws are made in REACTION to acts, not anticipation.

[snuggletiger]

Boy there's something to brag to the neighbors about "I drove a 13 year old to suicide by posing on line." somehow I don't think you are gonna be getting book deals and TV movies.

[HottiMegan]

That person is a real quality human being. geez, she felt "less guilty" since there had been previous suicide attempts..

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Jane

Were it my child, that woman would never draw a peaceful breath the balance of her life. Laws are made in REACTION to acts, not anticipation.

It would be very painful for you to do this. As a defender I would hammer on your child's flaws and continually point out that people don't commit suicide unless there's some other faulty wiring somewhere. Even if I was wrong, you'd be forced to hear it every time it went to court.

I'm not saying these people don't deserve a lifetime of suffering. I'm just reminding you that courtrooms can be BRUTAL and things may not end the way you want. Aging rock legend Ozzy has been sued for at least one suicide associated with a song he wrote (Suicide Solution) and the parents lost.

The death of my son under such circumstances would be worth going to prison over, but not worth a lengthy civil suit with an uncertain outcome.

[Jes]

Originally Posted by kr7

Hopefully, with the right lawyer, a wrongful death suit. It's a maybe, but again, if they could find a good lawyer and depending on the details of what actually transpired, it is a possibility.

Chris

i don't think i agree with that. ultimately, people are the type to kill themselves or not, I think. Many things contribute to that decision, but I'd argue that just about everyone reading this post has been badly bullied by someone in his/her lifetime. What does everyone reading this have in common? Well, he/she didn't commit suicide. So I don't think I'm comfortable ascribing the blame for this to anyone but the victim, unfortunately. I'd be happy if the neighbor, et al., were charged with harassment... but I still think it's a tough thing. The victim logged in to recieve those messages. The victim never said: don't email me anymore, I don't know you. While I think that woman is a complete and total whackadoo, you cant' really be charged with being an asshole.

Would that you could...would that you could.

[Jes]

Originally Posted by snuggletiger

somehow I don't think you are gonna be getting book deals and TV movies.

Have you never been to america, then...??

[Nex]

Originally Posted by Jes

Have you never been to america, then...??

Not really. I try to stay on this side of the Hudson.

[Tommy_Oblivion]

I'm starting to think they should start teaching kids in middle school that internet is serious business.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Canonista

It would be very painful for you to do this. As a defender I would hammer on your child's flaws and continually point out that people don't commit suicide unless there's some other faulty wiring somewhere. Even if I was wrong, you'd be forced to hear it every time it went to court.

I'm not saying these people don't deserve a lifetime of suffering. I'm just reminding you that courtrooms can be BRUTAL and things may not end the way you want. Aging rock legend Ozzy has been sued for at least one suicide associated with a song he wrote (Suicide Solution) and the parents lost.

The death of my son under such circumstances would be worth going to prison over, but not worth a lengthy civil suit with an uncertain outcome.

Courtroom my ass. The law was not in place. I would elicit my punishment in public...repeatedly, with a bullhorn.

And, my sweetheart committed suicide in 2003. Yeah, I know what kind of things can be said, especially when his brother called me one night an accused me of killing his brother. Then lied about calling me.

[bexy]

i agree tommy, i was thinking the same. if this girl hadnt had a myspace page maybe this would not have happened.

of course it takes a certain kind of person to consider or commit suicide. a different person may have messaged back "well screw u", however this girl didnt or couldnt. so what has happened here is she was pushed over the edge in a very cruel way by an "adult", someone who should have been looking out for her as a neighbour.

what concerns me most is that the woman in question is a mother, A FREAKING PARENT, and people are concerned with britney spears giving her kids cola more than evil manipulative people like this woman.

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Jane

Courtroom my ass. The law was not in place. I would elicit my punishment in public...repeatedly, with a bullhorn.
And, my sweetheart committed suicide in 2003. Yeah, I know what kind of things can be said, especially when his brother called me one night an accused me of killing his brother. Then lied about calling me.

You'd lose that one. You'd have a restraining order against you and once you violated that your life would get really hard. Maybe "convicted felon" hard, depending on your state's stalking laws.

Now if they were to, say, somehow get pulled over with a pound of weed in their trunk WHO KNOWS what would happen to their car, home, and other worldly possessions under those pesky drug forefiture laws....

Your heart is in the right place. You're just not devious enough.

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Canonista

You'd lose that one. You'd have a restraining order against you and once you violated that your life would get really hard. Maybe "convicted felon" hard, depending on your state's stalking laws.

Now if they were to, say, somehow get pulled over with a pound of weed in their trunk WHO KNOWS what would happen to their car, home, and other worldly possessions under those pesky drug forefiture laws....

Your heart is in the right place. You're just not devious enough.

You have no idea.

[snuggletiger]

Originally Posted by Jes

Have you never been to america, then...??

Here and there, I try to stay out of the gunky joints along the boardwalk

[FaxMachine1234]

People are horrible.

Also, you shouldn't have a MySpace until you're at least 16; any younger and the average kid can't handle the drama combined with what's going on at school.

[Jane]

A supposedly adult woman baited and antagonized a 13 year old to the point that she committed suicide. How the flying fuck could anyone hold this child responsible?

Explain it to me, please. 13!!!!!

[Canonista]

Originally Posted by Jane

A supposedly adult woman baited and antagonized a 13 year old to the point that she committed suicide. How the flying fuck could anyone hold this child responsible?

Explain it to me, please. 13!!!!!

Responsibility comes in varying degrees.

Apparently she had tried to commit suicide before. It was sick and cruel, but most people wouldn't hang themselves over it. The suicidal teen shares a portion of the blame.

I'm not saying the people who pulled this crap on her aren't sick fucks or that they don't need fed into a wood chipper feet first, I'm just saying that their victim was predisposed to self-injury. Frankly, it makes them look even worse because they chose a victim who was a tad off.

[SparklingBBW]

Originally Posted by Canonista

Responsibility comes in varying degrees.

Apparently she had tried to commit suicide before. It was sick and cruel, but most people wouldn't hang themselves over it. The suicidal teen shares a portion of the blame.

She was a child with a mental illness who was toyed with and emotionally raped by adults. She shares NO portion of the blame here. Please, quit blaming the victim.

She was a child. They were adults. She was sick. They were well. She was defenseless. They were predatory.

She was a child. She was sick. And she's not responsible.

Gena

[Jane]

Originally Posted by Genarose54

She was a child with a mental illness who was toyed with and emotionally raped by adults. She shares NO portion of the blame here. Please, quit blaming the victim.

She was a child. They were adults. She was sick. They were well. She was defenseless. They were predatory.

She was a child. She was sick. And she's not responsible.

Gena

Gena, you are exactly right, and, I say again....13.

[chocolate desire]

One has to belive there is a special spot in hell for people like Mrs Drew. I myself would be in jail for murder because there is no way i could live on the same street as her and not retaliate in some way.