I'm just not seeing it

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by activistfatgirl

But, where was the bashing in Les's post? When did he "bash" a bellier shape? Where did his post say I like this woman's butt and breasts and ARMS...yes...he mentioned arms! did he bash, belittle, or even question other variations of the female form? Oh, he didn't! We just think he might have?

I absolutely get the limitations and the restrictions women live in under the beauty myth and patriarchal forms of sexuality. But for chrissakes, to jump on this post...

posting a pic of a woman's body and saying how it doesn't measure up alone is infered bashing even if nasty pointed language wasn't used--which in my opinion it was. i realy hate name calling. what did that poor woman ever do to deserve that? if you wrap poo in silk it smells just as bad. people make the same type of points when they post pix of fat women and say how much better she'd look if she had thinner arms legs belly etc... all women are beautiful. they also use cultured euphemisms like she has "aesthetic beauty lacking, which is not true. she just doesn't fit a certain person's narrow aesthetic tastes. we'd be crying to high heaven if anyone was posting a pic of a fat woman and making similar comments elsewhere. we need to learn to be protective of the beauty of all women so that we all get our proper respect. and maybe even more thin women would also be looking out for us moreso than they do now.

i don't see what difference it should make to anyone if a particular person doesn't fit their personal preference. women are not made to order. they are their own beings. instead of trying to make a woman to appeal to them maybe men just need to seek out the women who already do and just be gentlemanly toward the ones who don't. if that could happen BBWs wouldn't need a place like dims to recooperate and rebuild something that should have always been entirely a part of them. there wouldn't be so many people having to restore their own self esteem that has been dismantled by years insensitivity and selfishness. just because the poster is probably a nice person and hadn't really meant to hurt anyone doesn't mean he shouldn't be made aware. what if he had a little thin daughter who heard him make similar comments that you thought were okay to make here and we didn't do our job and make him aware. how would she feel? where would she be years from now in terms of her self esteem? generally speaking most men don't mean to hurt or damage women but they can, especially if we don't help them. and as women i think we need to be careful of the tendency we have of trying to give other women some of our own when it comes to disaproval. we don't have to be jealous. we are beautiful. we don't have to bring somebody down when we are already up. we don't need to be callous. we need to be as caring as we want people to be toward us.

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by Sandie_Zitkus

Hey Les -- I'm with you on this one. I like a fuller figure.

And I agree with this post. It's a sad day when you can't post here on Dimensions about liking a fuller figure without getting your ass handed to you.

"I" love ya Les!

its a sadder day at dimensions when you can't figure out how to compliment a BBW without trying to diminish someone else and people support you in that. the main reason we have FAs acting in unacceptabe ways and saying unacceptable things is because some of us are so happy that they are here that they can do no wrong. you know something is really wrong when an FA can admit he was a bit insensitive and there are BBWs still defending his wrong--go figure!

[SamanthaNY]

Originally Posted by activistfatgirl

But, where was the bashing in Les's post? When did he "bash" a bellier shape? Where did his post say I like this woman's butt and breasts and ARMS...yes...he mentioned arms! did he bash, belittle, or even question other variations of the female form? Oh, he didn't! We just think he might have?

I absolutely get the limitations and the restrictions women live in under the beauty myth and patriarchal forms of sexuality. But for chrissakes, to jump on this post...

I think he did. Dry melba toast, twig, less than feminine...

Sure, it's not an all-out hate fest, and I don't even blame Les for making those judgments. It's human. What bothered me is that most people couldn't understand that what many of us found upsetting. What screamed out to me was painting the positive AGAINST the negative. If fat is a big tree, thin must be a weak stick. If fat is feminine, thin must be... not. It's the same things we're rallying against from the rest of the world. Thin people are hot - fat people are not. It's a different side of the same shitty coin.

Preference shouldn't have to mean the adoration of one type must go hand in hand with trashing of all other types. If we are to ever move forward in acceptance... preference would mean, at worst, apathy towards other forms. Not disgust.

Originally Posted by Super Fan

Yea, even here, it is sometimes a hazard to be a FA.

Sounds like it's also problematic for anyone that's not fat enough. So how is this different than 'out there'?

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by katorade

I really don't want to get into the argument part about "bashing" in this thread, but I would just like to say this, and honestly I think this is partly what Les Toil meant when he posted, although he may not realize it...

Femininity is measured by how you carry yourself, not how you are shaped. I have seen women built like the first woman who are as feminine as Pat Buchanan. I have seen women built like the second woman who exude femininity. I honestly don't think Les meant to turn it into an insult, he just didn't see how the body in the second picture was seen as an improvement in the eyes of whoever made the ad.

what it boiled down to for me is that he thought the skinny version was ugly. i think me and mossy are reading a different post from y'all. just substitute fat adjectives for the thin ones and see what you get out of it.

[katorade]

Originally Posted by mossystate

True...the OP did not call the slender female form as appealing as dry melba toast..and the OP did not question her ' femininity ', because she is not fat/chubby ( no matter where the fat lands ). I do need to get my eyes checked, so this could be the problem.

The OP did say that he messed up. As I know the OP is not some wallflower with no opinion, and is not exactly easily silenced...I wonder why he would say that. For chrissakes, to jump on these valid and intelligent objections...

We all say stupid shit that sounds worse than we intended it to. Cut the guy some slack, it's not like he's defending himself. He even admitted he feels like an ass.

[katorade]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

what it boiled down to for me is that he thought the skinny version was ugly. i think me and mossy are reading a different post from y'all. just substitute fat adjectives for the thin ones and see what you get out of it.

I think you are reading it differently. I don't agree with his choice of words, but I can see his point where he said she looks healthier in the first picture, which is exactly the point the ad is trying to negate. It's trying to point out that the second picture is healthier, when in reality she's just thinner. There's a serious lack of muscle tone and even her posture is worse. THAT isn't insulting, it's just obvious.

I won't even get into the fact that it's clearly two different people photographed in front of the same window on the same day...

[Keb]

Assuming it even is the same girl (Katorade may have a point), if -I- were that girl, I'd want people to tell me I was beautiful before -and- after. I'd go up to my room and cry if someone said I looked like toast.

-That- is why we don't like hate, or putting people down. It hurts. Bad. And there's no reason for it. You don't have to like the after pics; enjoy the before pics if you think they're pretty.

But a rainbow and a thundercloud can both be equally amazing.

[Santaclear]

Originally Posted by Zoom

I don't find either one of them healthy-- they have no heads! I'm surprised they don't fall over braindead or run around like chickens.

Well said!

I have the heads at my apartment.

[imfree]

Everybody's beautiful in his or her own way. Seriously, the
love of Christ compels me to never hold back on love or
a hug because of one's appearance.



Ray Stevens-Everything Is Beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0MJeZPeh4


(Ray Stevens)
Jesus loves the little children
All the little children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer night
Or a snow covered winter's day
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

There is none so blind
That is he who will not see
We must not close our minds
We must let our thought be free
For every hour that passes by
You know the world
Gets a little bit older
It's time to realize
That beauty lies
In the eyes of the beholder

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights
Or a snow covered winter's day
Ah, sing it children
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

We shouldn't care
About the length of his hair
Or the color of his skin
Don't worry about
what shows from without
but the love that lives within
We're gonna get it all together now
Everything gonna work out fine
Just take a little time
to look on the good side my friend
And straighten it out in your mind

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights
Or a snow covered winter's day
Ah, sing it children
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

One more time
Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights......

(((((Dimmers' Group Hug Time)))))

[Surlysomething]

Originally Posted by imfree

Everybody's beautiful in his or her own way. Seriously, the
love of Christ compels me to never hold back on love or
a hug because of one's appearance.



Ray Stevens-Everything Is Beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0MJeZPeh4


(Ray Stevens)
Jesus loves the little children
All the little children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer night
Or a snow covered winter's day
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

There is none so blind
That is he who will not see
We must not close our minds
We must let our thought be free
For every hour that passes by
You know the world
Gets a little bit older
It's time to realize
That beauty lies
In the eyes of the beholder

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights
Or a snow covered winter's day
Ah, sing it children
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

We shouldn't care
About the length of his hair
Or the color of his skin
Don't worry about
what shows from without
but the love that lives within
We're gonna get it all together now
Everything gonna work out fine
Just take a little time
to look on the good side my friend
And straighten it out in your mind

Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights
Or a snow covered winter's day
Ah, sing it children
Everybody's beautiful
In their own way
Under God's heaven
The world's gonna find a way

One more time
Everything is beautiful
In its' own way
Like a starry summer nights......

(((((Dimmers' Group Hug Time)))))

What does "Christ" have to do with this?

[elle camino]

Originally Posted by activistfatgirl

did he bash, belittle, or even question other variations of the female form? Oh, he didn't! We just think he might have?

no, he did. certainly not the end of the world, but he did.

Originally Posted by activistfatgirl

I absolutely get the limitations and the restrictions women live in under the beauty myth and patriarchal forms of sexuality. But for chrissakes, to jump on this post...

again: where's the jumping? seriously.
i don't know les that well, but from what i've seen out of him around here he's certainly no super-sensitive, fragile little flower who can't handle hearing differing opinions now and then. and if i'm wrong (and he is), i'd say it's pretty foolhardy for him to bring up topics on a discussion forum, where people are prone to expressing their different opinions.

[mossystate]

Originally Posted by Surlysomething

What does "Christ" have to do with this?

* at a loss for words....hands you a tambourine *

[Chimpi]

Originally Posted by Surlysomething

What does "Christ" have to do with this?

In some peoples' beliefs and opinions, "Christ" has to do with everything and everyone.

I do not agree, but everyone has the right to believe that way.

I also agree with a lot that has been said, but it wreaks of sarcasm in this thread (not that I'm against that).
What bothers me is that I have seen that advertisement (with other people) on almost every single website I visit. It's everywhere and I am getting sick of seeing it. Keb said it well - everyone should feel beautiful no matter what the before or after. I'm sick of these advertisements telling me otherwise.

[elle camino]

Originally Posted by Chimpi

What bothers me is that I have seen that advertisement (with other people) on almost every single website I visit. It's everywhere and I am getting sick of seeing it.

yep, that too.
actually i've seen a few before/after-type weightloss advertisements around the web which have used photos of paysite ladies from around here as the 'before'.
and i sometimes think maybe i should say something about it to the person, but then i figure they're probably already aware of it, and maybe even have gotten paid for the use of their photo? i'm clueless about how that type of thing works.

[Surlysomething]

Originally Posted by Chimpi

In some peoples' beliefs and opinions, "Christ" has to do with everything and everyone.

It really doesn't belong here though. Not everyone is Christian and not everyone cares.

[Chimpi]

The first Constitutional Amendment allows all religions to be anywhere and everywhere in this country, and that includes this thread. Where I would personally like to see Jesus Christ out of all discussions and beliefs (being that I am Atheist), I still respect that people have their beliefs and views.

Some people say Atheists, Jewish people, Muslims, and many other religions do not belong in the United States of America. Alas, Amendment One - one of the greatest blanket statements; rights.

[Surlysomething]

Originally Posted by Chimpi

The first Constitutional Amendment allows all religions to be anywhere and everywhere in this country, and that includes this thread. Where I would personally like to see Jesus Christ out of all discussions and beliefs (being that I am Atheist), I still respect that people have their beliefs and views.

Some people say Atheists, Jewish people, Muslims, and many other religions do not belong in the United States of America. Alas, Amendment One - one of the greatest blanket statements; rights.

Ahhh. I guess that's where I screwed up. I don't live in your country.

Sorry.

[Mini]

Originally Posted by Chimpi

In some peoples' beliefs and opinions, "Christ" has to do with everything and everyone.

I do not agree, but everyone has the right to believe that way.

And you also have the right to tell him that no one gives a shit about his zombie fetish.

OK, fine, I'll do it: Jesus hates you because you miss the point every fuckin' time.

[Chimpi]

Jesus just hates...
I'd be honored to be near the top of the list.

[imfree]

For Christ's sake we need to stop all this damned bickering,
regardless of whether any individual believes in him or not.

[superodalisque]

covers her mouth and giggles

[katorade]

Originally Posted by Chimpi

The first Constitutional Amendment allows all religions to be anywhere and everywhere in this country, and that includes this thread. Where I would personally like to see Jesus Christ out of all discussions and beliefs (being that I am Atheist), I still respect that people have their beliefs and views.

Some people say Atheists, Jewish people, Muslims, and many other religions do not belong in the United States of America. Alas, Amendment One - one of the greatest blanket statements; rights.

(But the same does not apply for a privately owned message board, just sayin'. Completely off topic, hence the parentheses, but a lot of people seem to forget that free speech doesn't really apply in all cases. Someone could be banned from here for not liking the color green because that's the owner's favorite color. They could be banned for expressing a religious opinion and wouldn't lawfully be able to do anything about it. I'm not saying that's what should happen or anything, just that the first amendment has nothing to do with message boards. /PSA.)

[mossystate]

If we stop bickering we get his sake? We are gonna need sushi.

As I am not big on sake, I will stick with the ' bickering '. Now, get me a bottle of bubbly and I will be a little lamb. * crosses stuff *

[Les Toil]

Originally Posted by SamanthaNY

I think he did. Dry melba toast, twig, less than feminine...

And that's the flaw of my post. I stand behind the praising of the big girl but I don't stand behind the belittling of the other.

Sorry ladies.

[mossystate]

Thanks, Les.