A detriment or a benefit to fat acceptance?

[stan_der_man]

This is my first attempt at creating a poll, so forgive me if I totally screw this up...

This poll is not a critique of these artists works, but more a question about what sort of perception images like these might convey to the "general public" about what Fat Acceptance represents, or perhaps what Dimensions represents. I chose these images from the front page of Dimensions, and these images in particular because they are depictions of exaggerated fatness, presumably fatness to the point of immobility. These aren't the most exaggerated of depictions, but typical in many ways of images often found in "Expansion" sites.

Example images are as follows:









The question posed is:

As far as possible perceptions towards fat acceptance go, are images such as these...

1) a detriment

2) a benefit

3) are of no effect

[stan_der_man]

Oops, I forgot to add that this is an anonymous poll... Also, I would be interested in stated opinions one way or another...

[tonynyc]

I don't see the images as a detriment-the nice thing about Dims is the variety of audience that it caters to. You have folks that may be into the "Expansion" site images and those that are not. For me personally-not my cup of tea ;but, if it makes some folks happy....

[Chimpi]

Without a thorough or otherwise moderately detailed explanation or response, I think most people that are unaware of fat acceptance and "this world" will find those pictures to be completely fetish related, disgusting and/or negative. Personally, I think the complete opposite, but that's just me. However, I do feel that in the broad spectrum of fat acceptance, the pictures alone represent a positive (or beneficial) interpretation as to what some aspect of fat acceptance is about. No matter how well you color code it or butter it up, an explanation of fat acceptance will have a different effect on different people, and they're going to feel one way or another about it no matter what; of course, changing their views of such a thing will take effort on their part and an open mind, but that's neither here nor there.
I think if we're in it to extend fat acceptance to the rest of the world, we should include those of us or those parts of us that find those images enticing, erotic and possibly even a required aspect of relationship with those of us that enjoy those photos/circumstances. Fat acceptance should not necessarily be anti-objectification; I think that's a common problem with many people is that objectification is so horrible that it should not be included in anything. Fat acceptance should include all walks of fat positivity and fat personification - those pictures included. Fat acceptance is about fat acceptance - those pictures are fat pictures. I think that's the simplest way I can describe that.

That, and the artists are really damn good and others should be aware of such artwork.

[LillyBBBW]

I don't think anyone is going to look at thos pictures and gasp out loud, "OMG, size acceptance!!!" I think people will look at them and say, "OMG, what a frreak show!" The first time I saw pictures like this, it was years ago, I thought they were created by someone who was trying to make fun of fat people. I didn't connect it with eroticism at all.

[AnnMarie]

Interesting topic, Stan!

I say no effect because fantasy art of the equivalent on the "skinny" side of life wouldn't make anyone think that that was how things really are, but exactly that, an extreme fantasy.

While I realize that our world isn't nearly as accepted or understood, I still think that a reasonable, open human being would take many things into account before they make their call on what this is really all about. If they're not open, they judged us all long before they got to the art.

I wouldn't want to pretend we're something we're not just because it's sometimes uncomfortable for some.

[goofy girl]

Originally Posted by LillyBBBW

I don't think anyone is going to look at thos pictures and gasp out loud, "OMG, size acceptance!!!" I think people will look at them and say, "OMG, what a frreak show!" The first time I saw pictures like this, it was years ago, I thought they were created by someone who was trying to make fun of fat people. I didn't connect it with eroticism at all.

I agree with Chimpi that the artwork is very well done, but LillyB you pretty much sum up my thoughts.

[elle camino]

well seeing as i've seen those actual images before, used on other forums to demonstrate how gross fat people look (supposedly), voted detriment.


edit: also personally, they just make me incredibly sad.

[superodalisque]

i think they can be a detriment because they underline the lampooning of fat female sexuality that has always been present in society. they are the usual big joke--pun intended. even though i respect everyone's right to express themselves and i also respect the underlying fantasy life that people have a right to, i feel sad that this stuff is actually made generally by men who claim to admire and respect fat female beauty. i feel as a fat woman i am sexy feminine and beautiful, not an object of jokes and ridicule. where is the love and respect?

[swordchick]

I'm with you on this. It is so sad.

Originally Posted by superodalisque

i think they can be a detriment because they underline the lampooning of fat female sexuality that has always been present in society. they are the usual big joke--pun intended. even though i respect everyone's right to express themselves and i also respect the underlying fantasy life that people have a right to, i feel sad that this stuff is actually made generally by men who claim to admire and respect fat female beauty. i feel as a fat woman i am sexy feminine and beautiful, not an object of jokes and ridicule. where is the love and respect?

[stan_der_man]

For the sake of (at least to attempt...) keeping neutral and letting the conversation go as it may, I'm not going to state my opinions per se. I would like to say again, I mean no insult to the artists, as works of art these pieces are interesting in their own right.

Two questions I'd like to pose (to be answered or simply thought about...) for anyone who either takes a neutral stand on the effect to size acceptance but mostly to those who take a stance that these images have a positive effect are:


Would you hang an image like this (a clothed one presumably...) in your place of work (office, cubicle etc...) or house or any other public place?

How do you think "average" people would react to these images?

How do you think an image like this would effect the attendance of a BBW dance if it were used on a flier?

[fiore]

I said benefit - it's a cute cartoon exaggeration. They strike me as very happy/silly images. They're not scary or intimidating or threatening or vilifying. They're not overly sexual. They are a bit whimsical and have a good sense of humor. I personally wouldn't hang them anywhere but I wouldn't be shocked if I saw that someone else had posted them. These drawings are sugar-coated fantasy - perfect for beginners! haha

[superodalisque]

1. no i wouldn't hang it

2. average people would be either horrified or they'd laugh their ass off
depending on the number of brain cells they had.

3. i definitely would not attend that dance, as much as i love dancing

[mossystate]

Let's just say I would hope that no person who is just entering the ' size acceptance ' classroom would run into this stuff, until they were well on their way of understanding, and well on their way of understanding themselves.

This stuff, to me, for me, is aggressive and ugly. I do not see anything but ridicule and defeat. I don't care about the talent of the people doing it. I don't care that some think this stuff is the best thing since sliced cheese.

There is objectifying ' art ' all over the place, whether the focus is fat...thin...whatever. I know that there can never be one ideal in terms of how people are represented. It will always be here ( Dims...the planet ) . I get that. I get that no one person can define size acceptance. I will always hate it and never accept it. I get to to do that, or, not do that. Enjoy. Just please be sure to set your excitement aside every now and then to really understand the other ' side '. To simply say..." hey, all viewpoints are accepted "...serves no one...not well, anyway.

If I were to recommend certain sites online, I would have to do more than a bit of explaining. I could never just give a struggling fat woman, for example, the link to this site, without that initial handholding. There is a lot of powerful stuff, not all of it safe for fragile folk.

[tonynyc]

I agree a very talented artist reminds me of Robert Crumb;but, Crumb was also very controversial in his own right.

Now in terms of your question- which of these drawings would be acceptable in a workplace- perhaps the last one with the BBW on the desk. I do think that there would have to be drastic modifications in the drawing to be accepted in a business environment.

1. The model would have to be clothed in business attire.
2. The inclusion of other figures of different shapes and gender to promote a Diversity theme.

As for the other two more "risky" drawings - it depends on the type of Size Acceptance event that is being promoted and the audience that one want to attract.

Originally Posted by fa_man_stan

For the sake of (at least to attempt...) keeping neutral and letting the conversation go as it may, I'm not going to state my opinions per se. I would like to say again, I mean no insult to the artists, as works of art these pieces are interesting in their own right.

Two questions I'd like to pose (to be answered or simply thought about...) for anyone who either takes a neutral stand on the effect to size acceptance but mostly to those who take a stance that these images have a positive effect are:


Would you hang an image like this (a clothed one presumably...) in your place of work (office, cubicle etc...) or house or any other public place?

How do you think "average" people would react to these images?

How do you think an image like this would effect the attendance of a BBW dance if it were used on a flier?

[ashmamma84]

Just a mess. That's my honest reaction when I look at drawings like this. To me it helps to perpetuate negative stereotypes about fat women. We are nothing more than gluttons, feeding at a trough.

I would never hang anything like this in my place of work or home -- these pieces are just not my cup of tea. It has nothing to do with appreciating or reveling in the fat female form, in my eyes. And I think "average sized" people would probably experience a good amount of shock and awe as well (and maybe a bit of disgust). Oh and if I saw this kind of stuff on a flier of a dance, I wouldn't attend. I'd think it was some kind of sick joke being played on fat women and stay my ass away.

I guess that's my whole issue with these drawings. I am too proud to be taken for a joke and for people who aren't in fat acceptance, seeing something like this might make them figure this is all we've got, so to speak.

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by tonynyc

I agree a very talented artist reminds me of Robert Crumb;but, Crumb was also very controversial in his own right.

Now in terms of your question- which of these drawings would be acceptable in a workplace- perhaps the last one with the BBW on the desk. I do think that there would have to be drastic modifications in the drawing to be accepted in a business environment.

1. The model would have to be clothed in business attire.
2. The inclusion of other figures of different shapes and gender to promote a Diversity theme.

As for the other two more "risky" drawings - it depends on the type of Size Acceptance event that is being promoted and the audience that one want to attract.

its interesting that you mentioned "The Crumb" who is one of the most hostile cartoonists when it comes to women. i think his headless big butted women being ridden vigorously by men are particularly expressive of his orientation. that frames the reference perfectly in terms of these other drawings as well when it comes to the respect level. but actually none of them resemble the style of crumb. it doesn't have the same level of energy even though the cartooning is fine.

you'd get fired if it was in the workplace because it looks like sexual harrassment even if you did include thin girls of different races in equal poses and conditions.

[fiore]

I feel like every time I post I end up playing devil's advocate!! HA HA.

[AnnMarie]

Originally Posted by fa_man_stan

\

How do you think an image like this would effect the attendance of a BBW dance if it were used on a flier?

hahaha, who would do that??? These pictures are extreme fantasy images, they're not representative of real people or potential clientèle. I wouldn't go to a "normal" bar if they used images of scared women tied to a wall either, but I don't think that's an image they'd be choosing unless it was representative of what they're all about.

I still think it's an interesting topic, but c'mon Stan... that's one Goliath-like step beyond what those images are created for. Beautiful art in their own way, but fantasy in all ways. They're somewhere on the equivalent scale, for those so into them, as a woman with a dildo inside her in a gyno shot. Would you hand THAT on your wall?

HER BOOBS ARE HELD UP BY A SWING IN THE CEILING!!!

Just trying to stay grounded here.

[steely]

I don't understand it.It certainly doesn't give me positive feelings.

[mossystate]

Originally Posted by AnnMarie

... as a woman with a dildo inside her in a gyno shot.

uhoh...* races to weight board to delete my latest picture *

[FreeThinker]

Originally Posted by mossystate

uhoh...* races to weight board to delete my latest picture *

*races to get there first*

[AnnMarie]

Originally Posted by mossystate

uhoh...* races to weight board to delete my latest picture *

I didn't name names. But..... yeah.

[MisticalMisty]

I would never hang the exaggerated figures like the examples you've given..however I did purchase Fish's book and on my bedroom wall are 6 different prints of beautiful ladies in the water...

I think there are examples of the complete and total fat fantasy and I believe there are the more true to life examples.

I think that art is art. I'm not sure that it's a benefit or a detriment. If people are going to be narrow minded and believe that the "fat world" is what's represented in those pictures, well then I'd have to question their ability to distinguish fantasy and reality.

[Cors]

I love big women but I find these pictures disturbing, particularly the second one. SuperO put it across very well.

This actually reminds me of the pride versus progress discussion that comes up ever so often in the LGBTQ community. Some think that flamboyant gay men dancing and prancing around in leather costumes and waving rainbow flags can give clueless straight people the wrong impression, and they argue that in order to gain acceptance, we should instead focus on appearing as "normal" as possible. Others think that we should not go out of our way to placate the conservatives at the expense of alienating some members of our own community.