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Old 01-31-2009, 02:38 AM   #1
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Default Prop 8 Updates/Discussions

Original Hyde Park thread was locked because of craziness.
See here: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...ad.php?t=48583

As much as I'd love to continue this debate in Hyde Park, I'm glad that further discussion and updates can continue in this safer place. The first thread really upset me, basically because I was listening to flimsy arguments. Let me say this now: Everyone has the right to be unhappily married

So far the only update I've paid attention to is that transparency from "Yes on Prop 8" donors have revealed that the Mormon Church has reported $190,000 in Prop 8 expenses, which were previously unfiled. As stated previously, I'm Catholic. My own church is against gay marriage, so for me I'm always toeing a thin line between my faith and what I feel is fair and right.

What are your thoughts? What updates have you been paying attention to? And more importantly, I'd love to hear from our members who were affected by the passing of Prop 8.

It's rather a silly thing to include here, but my roommate is going to a wedding on Valentine's Day. It's between a gay man and a straight woman. The marriage will be very real and very much legal.

Sources:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:20 AM   #2
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I have to be honest, I haven't followed Prop 8 as much as i should, but I wonder, did Marriott contribute? I know they're a huge company owned by a Mormon family, but they're east coast based, so I guess I wonder how vast the religious fundraising was in their opposition to legal gay marriage in CA?

I also have to say, I'm curious how you reconcile your faith with your beliefs on homoesexuality, kayrae. I think a thread on religion and sexuality would be a useful addition to the forum, if someone would like to start it. I'm a 'godless heathen,' so i can't start it.
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Old 01-31-2009, 12:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by kayrae View Post
My own church is against gay marriage, so for me I'm always toeing a thin line between my faith and what I feel is fair and right.
I know exactly how you feel. I was raised Nazarene/Wesleyan. They tend to be a more accepting lot up in the Northeast, but they are still generally anti-gay marriage/rights. It's stressful, especially when you yourself tend to not only find attraction in JUST the opposite sex.

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I also have to say, I'm curious how you reconcile your faith with your beliefs on homoesexuality, kayrae. I think a thread on religion and sexuality would be a useful addition to the forum, if someone would like to start it. I'm a 'godless heathen,' so i can't start it.
I would start it right now, but it's laundry time for me. If I have time, I'll rev one up-- or reply when someone else does
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by butch View Post
I have to be honest, I haven't followed Prop 8 as much as i should, but I wonder, did Marriott contribute? I know they're a huge company owned by a Mormon family, but they're east coast based, so I guess I wonder how vast the religious fundraising was in their opposition to legal gay marriage in CA?

...
Interestingly enough... It appears that Marriott didn't contribute. It almost seems that Mr. Marriott actually supports the idea of "inclusion" of some sort (in his own words...) despite having religious beliefs to the contrary.

Here is a blog from the Marriott website...

http://www.blogs.marriott.com/default.asp?item=2284808

It will be interesting to see who all contributed to Prop. 8, I recently read that a Calif court mandated that the list of those who contributed to Prop 8 be made public as is required for all propositions. I'm curious to see how much out-of-state influence there might have been involved in sponsoring and supporting Prop 8.


BTW... Congrats for getting the GLBTQ Board going!
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:00 PM   #5
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I heard that the Mormon church originally lied about the amount but the courts made the finally disclose the REAL amount they added. (I was at my in laws all weekend and the ONLY watch news so i saw a few snippets on it) I'm nervously awaiting an outcome on this.

It doesn't affect me personally but it affects my father in law and uncle in law.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayrae View Post

So far the only update I've paid attention to is that transparency from "Yes on Prop 8" donors have revealed that the Mormon Church has reported $190,000 in Prop 8 expenses, which were previously unfiled. As stated previously, I'm Catholic. My own church is against gay marriage, so for me I'm always toeing a thin line between my faith and what I feel is fair and right.

What are your thoughts? What updates have you been paying attention to? And more importantly, I'd love to hear from our members who were affected by the passing of Prop 8.
Sources:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics


Well, IMHO the church has no business trying to put their hand in a government issue. I really feel that people have a right to be with whom they want to be with. That "marriage" is a joining of two people, regardless of their sex.

When I hear people say "but marriage is between a man and a women" I wonder what they base that on? Whether two people have the opposite types of sex organs? Because believe it or not, there are A LOT of women out there, that while they are physically female, they have the genetics of a man. Same with men...physically they are male, but genetically female. Many couples discover this is why they are unable to have children.....
What about if the women has the external sex organs of a female but instead of ovaries she has testies? (which also happens)
So...what makes someone male or female? Genes or physical attributes?
What about those couples who got married, think they are the opposite sex, when technically, they aren't?

The ONLY reasons people seem to have to not allow same sex marriages are religious ones. And religion needs to be put aside from government.

The only logical reason I can think of is that it interferes with the natural course of procreation, however, thanks to modern science that has been taken care of too.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:42 PM   #7
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I'm still crazy curious, as to why the government feels it is okay to marry two non-christian-god-believing people. But not two men or two women.


The christian "God" Has nothing to do with them. Why should it anyone else? That is the first line of offense when I hear the Anti-Prop 8 folk.


Drives me nuts

No matter who I ask, I don't get an answer.


....can anyone here explain?
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:45 PM   #8
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Please allow me to insert my 2 cents:

I think that in some respects Prop-8 didn't pass because there is still a big racial and ethnic divide within the gay/straight community. Please allow me to elaborate:

Some of my gay and lesbian friends of color felt that the supporters did not make a stronger effort to reach out into their community. People of color who happen to be gay and lesbian have a difficult time trying to be accepted into their respective communities. The straight Latino and African-American communities tend to shun and scorn those who are not straight because of their ties to the Catholic and Christian churches. So there are alot of gay and lesbian peoples who stay in the closet so they will not lose the love of their families. My sister, who is a Lesbian, is definitely loved by my mother and grandmother; however, they are totally against her lifestyle and refuse to acknowlege her past and present partners. They are always quoting Bible scripture, etc., about the so-called "abomination" of being gay and lesbian. The West Indian & Jamaican communities are extremely homophobic & to be out in those countries can almost guarantee a death sentence. Then when you look at gay/lesbian society as depicted in films, shows, etc., there is definitely a lack of diversity. Look at the US version of "Queer as Folk", the men are almost always white, successful, financially secure and hot. You rarely see any bar scenes where the guys are men of color, or even older men or even large-sized men. And the "L" Word may have some lesbians of color, but again, they're usually "the beautiful people".

What offended me most about the Prop 8 initiative was that it was being compared to the Civil Rights struggle that African Americns have gone through. I personally find that offensive because if you are gay or lesbian and white, you can "hide in the closet" about your sexuality if you choose to and you still won't experience the level of discrimination that we have because of the color of our skin.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandru View Post
Please allow me to insert my 2 cents:

I think that in some respects Prop-8 didn't pass because there is still a big racial and ethnic divide within the gay/straight community. Please allow me to elaborate:

Some of my gay and lesbian friends of color felt that the supporters did not make a stronger effort to reach out into their community. People of color who happen to be gay and lesbian have a difficult time trying to be accepted into their respective communities. The straight Latino and African-American communities tend to shun and scorn those who are not straight because of their ties to the Catholic and Christian churches. So there are alot of gay and lesbian peoples who stay in the closet so they will not lose the love of their families. My sister, who is a Lesbian, is definitely loved by my mother and grandmother; however, they are totally against her lifestyle and refuse to acknowlege her past and present partners. They are always quoting Bible scripture, etc., about the so-called "abomination" of being gay and lesbian. The West Indian & Jamaican communities are extremely homophobic & to be out in those countries can almost guarantee a death sentence. Then when you look at gay/lesbian society as depicted in films, shows, etc., there is definitely a lack of diversity. Look at the US version of "Queer as Folk", the men are almost always white, successful, financially secure and hot. You rarely see any bar scenes where the guys are men of color, or even older men or even large-sized men. And the "L" Word may have some lesbians of color, but again, they're usually "the beautiful people".

What offended me most about the Prop 8 initiative was that it was being compared to the Civil Rights struggle that African Americns have gone through. I personally find that offensive because if you are gay or lesbian and white, you can "hide in the closet" about your sexuality if you choose to and you still won't experience the level of discrimination that we have because of the color of our skin.
I'm a black lesbian and gay marriage is a civil right for me. My partner is very butch so she can't just "hide in the closet" like you might think. Because of how she expresses her gender, her skin tone and orientation is up for grabs in terms of discrimination.

Gay marriage isn't just about the white folk, so don't make it so -- it encompasses a rainbow of people (kinda like our flag ). There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to have the legal benefits that some heteros unfortunately take for granted and it offends me that people can't wrap their heads around that.
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:06 PM   #10
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I'm a member of www.moveon.org. Today they sent info out about the Courage Campaign and a link to sign their letter to the California Supreme Court asking it to strike down Prop 8, reject Ken Starr's case urging the state Supreme Court to both validate Prop 8 and forcibly divorce 18,000 gay and lesbian couples who were married before the ballot measure passed, and let all loving, committed couples marry. They asked people to send photos with simple messages asking not to be forced into divorce that was put into a video.. it's so moving. It's also set to the tune of one of my favorite Regina Spektor tunes, "Fidelity."

Here's a link: http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/fidelity

Share it with your friends and pass it on!
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:32 AM   #11
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Supreme Court arguments begin over Prop 8

You can watch the oral arguments right now: http://www.calchannel.com/

Pacific Standard Time
March 5, 2009
9 am - 12 pm

Last edited by kayrae; 03-05-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by kayrae View Post
Supreme Court arguments begin over Prop 8

You can watch the oral arguments right now: http://www.calchannel.com/

Pacific Standard Time
March 5, 2009
9 am - 12 pm
I wonder if there's a way I can find out what channel this will be on...? I just got U-Verse so I'm not familiar with all its ins and outs yet.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:41 AM   #13
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I don't know about cable TV, but it can be seen online.
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