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Old 02-03-2009, 07:00 PM   #1
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Default The Awesome Genderqueer Thread

I have always had a thing for people who fall outside of the gender binary. Nothing catches my eye more than an unconventional gender presentation and the liberal, postmodern, queer attitude that accompanies it totally blows my mind.

Yes, most femmes go crazy for Shane-from-the-L-Word types (not that there is anything wrong with that of course), but it seems that my preference goes far beyond that. I don't just want someone who looks androgynous, I want someone who actually has a genderqueer identity and can fully appreciate gender play in and out of bed. The queerer, the better.

All of my serious relationships have been with people who are genderqueer in some way. In fact, it almost feels like there is something missing if I am going out with someone who is possibly perfect in every way but has a conventional gender identity, not unlike how a lesbian who is not yet out to herself feels when she is dating an otherwise wonderful man.

I felt like a freak in a community that shuns anything radically different and it took a while before I embraced this part of my sexuality. Even then, I have aways felt rather alone in this (aside from one fabulous queer male friend who lives too far away) and I am so, so glad that there are people here who might actually understand. <3

_

Do you identify as genderqueer?
Will you consider dating one?
What do you guys generally think of genderqueer folk?

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Old 02-03-2009, 09:57 PM   #2
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As a genderqueer person myself, I am all about messing around with gender expectations. If I had a nickel for every person who called me sir, I'd be a rich person by now. I don't know if people think I want to be a man, but I don't. I don't want a penis, I don't want to behave like a man, and I don't think I need to behave a certain way because I look a certain way. I think people find that disconcerting. It seems like people want me to be more masculine than I really am, and I wonder sometimes why I don't also want to act more stereotypcially manly.
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:19 AM   #3
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I will need to post pics of me when i was younger with a skinhead and a few of me looking really butch. I used to get called son all the time. I used to wear suits to school! I think though i was trying to get used to being a lesbian or something. These days i am neither butch nor femme and i am both butch and femme. If i am going out i can 'scrub up well' lol.. and wear dresses and make up and heeled boots and fix my hair.. but generally i prefer to slob about in an army vest and trousers and a pair of docs or trainers. I have been told before i am androgenous but that was more when i was younger and skinnier as i got older and more curvy i look a lot more womanly i would say. This doesnt take away the fact i love to drag it up! I have a few fantasies where i am male too. I have no desire to be male in real life but i do love to 'mix it up' in my fantasy life. Great post, i imagine more feel like you than you realise. whatever, you are totally accepted here. x
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:59 AM   #4
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Back in the GLBQ thread I talked about my identity a bit, in this post: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...2&postcount=92
In particular, I drew a graph to show a bit how I perceive my gender identity, which is to say sprawling, unbound and not tightly limited, and while mostly more male and heterosexual than otherwise, it certainly spills across into other areas.

The thing about having an identity that is broad and ill-constrained is that, short of dedicating my life to the task, I was never going to explore all of it in actions (conversely, unless I gave myself artificial mental boundaries there was no way I wasn’t going to explore it all in thought). In addition, in general I’ve always been more inclined to be the willow than the oak—bend with the winds of the world so long as I don’t budge from my core values.

In a world that still likes binary gender and binary sexuality it is easier and less confining for me to identify as male and heterosexual than anything else. As I grew up I learned what it was acceptable for a boy to do and what wasn’t, and I generally complied with that, to avoid a fuss. That is I was more interested in my Hot Wheels cars than in my neighbours Barbie dolls, but I would have happily played with the dolls too had it been acceptable. And if I’d ever had to choose only one of the two to play with, it would probably have been the cars, but I always regretted a bit not getting to play dress up with the dolls (maybe why I so enjoy shopping for my wife now?).

Or, trying to be more concise, ‘girly’ behavior has always been an option for me, but not a requirement like it is for some guys. Given the resistance in our society to guys acting in a girly way I’ve mostly not taken those options. If our society was different, who knows what I would have chosen?

I have always liked things that mess with gender though. It is probably not an accident that my wife used to come across rather butch in some ways (the ‘boy’ hair cut, practical jeans and t-shirt, doc martens, no make-up). We toyed with the idea of both of us wearing tuxedoes for our wedding, given her low opinion of dresses, but decided it was not worth the waves it would have made (plus she did not relish looking for a tuxedo that would fit her hips). But again, gender-queering things/people/actions/stuff is all probably more optional for me than it is a requirement. Something I like, not so much something I need.

I suspect that I’m not all that uncommon in this, that a lot of guys have some side of them that spills over these boundaries. But I suspect that a lot of them likewise internalized, hidden, or suppressed those parts of themselves. In this society it is not something you want to advertise unless you either really have to or you want the attention, I think.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:08 AM   #5
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Im a girl, I enjoy being a girl and I sometimes like dressing more feminine.

But I also love dressing more masculine and looking like a dude. I've even thought about doing some cross-dressing and binding my chest. Sometiems I go out in public and I WANT strangers to think Im a guy. Everytime I go shopping, I usually head to the men's clothes and shoes first.

*shrug* I dont know why I like it. I just think its fun to to play around with that kinda stuff. My gay male BFF sometimes likes to dress as a woman (he's never done it in public except to a Halloween party).
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:41 AM   #6
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Thank you for sharing, it is fascinating reading all of your responses.

I was uncomfortable with my femme presentation until the drag queens and trannies showed me the way. I didn't actually want to be male, but I often wish I don't naturally look so female. Ideally I would be born with completely androgynous features because I feel like it would be a better canvas for my queerness. It would be fun to pass occasionally or at least confuse some people, but I couldn't even do that with a shaved head and bound breasts. I wonder if most lesbians go through some sort of boyish phase or at least, start paying more attention to their gender presentation when they come out.

I am obsessed with keeping my hair, nails, feet looking good, can't step out of the house with a bare face, always wear matching lingerie and heels whenever possible. However, I am extremely uncomfortable with the thought of wearing feminine blouses, skirts and dresses unless they are obviously sexy (tight mini skirts) or fetishistic (slinky leather or latex). This dissonance makes me feel like some sort of a confused crossdresser. Once in a while I get almost aroused by the idea of wearing a prosthetic out and whipping it out for the next guy who whistles at me, but I don't have the balls to actually do it for fear of getting overpowered.

In person I am generally mild, sweet and femme but I can be aggressive, dominant and lustful in a typically male way in bed (must...ravage....helpless...prey). I am also extremely turned on by the idea of topping, and penetrating a partner who looks and acts more masculine.. okay, better stop now.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:48 AM   #7
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Me and my dog 10 years ago, when i was a wee butch. My skinhead was growing in at that point! Its a really awful pic of me but the only one i could find online.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:00 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cors View Post
In person I am generally mild, sweet and femme but I can be aggressive, dominant and lustful in a typically male way in bed (must...ravage....helpless...prey). I am also extremely turned on by the idea of topping, and penetrating a partner who looks and acts more masculine.. okay, better stop now.
No need to stop..take it to the hot tub! lol
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:02 AM   #9
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Aww, Mer that is so boyishly cute! :O


17. I couldn't find pictures of my even shorter hair or red mohawk. I still look somewhat girly. *sulks*


21.

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No need to stop..take it to the hot tub! lol
Sure, just need willing prey....
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:23 AM   #10
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ahhh.. what a difference. I need to post a more girly pic of me. I have some hilariously butch pics but i have just moved and my scanner etc is still boxed..I want to see more genderbending pics of everyone!!!
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:50 AM   #11
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Cute pics you two!

I don't identify myself as genderqueer, I am just a girl. Girly in the sense that I love to dress up, wear make up, have big boobs and have no interest in looking anything other than femme.

I tend to really only fancy girly girls, tomboys are ok as I live in jeans and Converse myself.

But with men, I have a strong preference for men with very feminine looks, girlie traits, and female alter egos
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by butch View Post
It seems like people want me to be more masculine than I really am, and I wonder sometimes why I don't also want to act more stereotypcially manly.
I sometimes wonder people have a set point (just like with weight) that when it comes to masculinity and femininity. The more manly one looks, the less zir feels the need to act in a masculine way and the reverse applies.

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I have been told before i am androgenous but that was more when i was younger and skinnier as i got older and more curvy i look a lot more womanly i would say. This doesnt take away the fact i love to drag it up! I have a few fantasies where i am male too. I have no desire to be male in real life but i do love to 'mix it up' in my fantasy life. Great post, i imagine more feel like you than you realise. whatever, you are totally accepted here. x
I was extremely thin for a good long while and while I looked less feminine in general, I found it harder to actively pull off the androgynous look. Boobs, even when tightly bound look like a huge bulky mess emphasized by a concave stomach and there is only so much padding one can add to hide that. If I gained 200lbs, however, I imagine that the weight will be so much more evenly distributed (yay belly!) and I might have an easier time.

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Originally Posted by edx View Post
In a world that still likes binary gender and binary sexuality it is easier and less confining for me to identify as male and heterosexual than anything else. As I grew up I learned what it was acceptable for a boy to do and what wasn’t, and I generally complied with that, to avoid a fuss.
This is exactly what my androgynous, gender-neutral partner who identifies as a heterosexual male said! I wonder if males generally have a more distinct, defined identity or if that is the result of social pressure and I yearn for a more open-minded, gender-free society. Expressing femininity is seen as more problematic for males, especially when it comes to drawing attention. I do feel somewhat threatened when I dress masculine though fearing that some homophobic guy who is much bigger than I am will decide to come teach me a lesson. I guess this problem won't exist if I can pass, and I think males have a far more difficult time passing even if they choose to transition fully.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:18 PM   #13
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Cute pics you two!

I don't identify myself as genderqueer, I am just a girl. Girly in the sense that I love to dress up, wear make up, have big boobs and have no interest in looking anything other than femme.

I tend to really only fancy girly girls, tomboys are ok as I live in jeans and Converse myself.

But with men, I have a strong preference for men with very feminine looks, girlie traits, and female alter egos
Yes, i have only ever fancied girly/womanly women myself. I have also generally been, well not 'girly' but not butch.. cept for that one time...when i was about 19/20 and my gf at the time had responsibility for my hair and liked the butch look! i was easy moulded by love then.. lmao!
i appreciate all forms of gender identity but i'm like you, i tend to like the feminine in both my girl and boy friends.
My girlfriend is VERY femminine..i feel quite butch next to her, which is funny cause on a butch/femme scale i would defo be more on the femme side..well i think so!?
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:22 PM   #14
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My girlfriend is VERY femminine..i feel quite butch next to her, which is funny cause on a butch/femme scale i would defo be more on the femme side..well i think so!?
I am by no means butch, but I certainly felt that way when I was out with my super feminine ex!
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:40 PM   #15
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I am by no means butch, but I certainly felt that way when I was out with my super feminine ex!
Yeah, its funny that its actually impossible to define ourselves without others.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:44 PM   #16
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Hm..not sure if you could call me genderqueer or not. Basically I was a girl, raised as a boy (don't ask...), who was very obviously female (hourglass shape, C-cup, feminine facial features, etc), but dressed male and dated males and females.

So physically, aside from my highschool years when I looked like a skinny, punk boy, I am quite female...yet many women assume I am a lesbian. As far as personality goes....well, let's just say that anyone who meets me online and doesn't see my gender posted anywhere automatically assumes I am a male. I've even exchanged some emails with tech support at various mol bio companies, signed them with my clearly female name, and received "thank you sir" responses.

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Old 02-04-2009, 12:48 PM   #17
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This is exactly what my androgynous, gender-neutral partner who identifies as a heterosexual male said! I wonder if males generally have a more distinct, defined identity or if that is the result of social pressure and I yearn for a more open-minded, gender-free society. Expressing femininity is seen as more problematic for males, especially when it comes to drawing attention.
1) as discussed elsewhere, when it comes to what they are attracted to, some studies suggest that guys do have a more distinct, defined, identity. I'm not totally sold by those studies, but I'll accept that women's sexuality, in terms of what they are attracted to, is quite possibly more fluid than men's.

2) Our culture generally accepts the bleed of 'male' into the female domain more than the other way around. Women started wearing trousers, men did not start wearing skirts. Women can wear sneakers or construction boots without getting much attention for it, guys wearing heels is still a big deal. For that matter, names which start being used for both boys and girls almost always end up being almost totally girl names within a generation or two (I bet you won't find many boys name Leslie these days, and if you do I bet the odds are good they go by Les, for example). I know that there are posters on Dims who have taken variants on gender studies, maybe they can explain the why of this.

And with regard to parts that I didn't quote:

3) I admit that when I hit puberty I realized that I wanted to be (essentially, I didn't know the word then) androgynous. Sleight (or soft and roly-poly, I was torn), no body or facial hair, no big bulgy muscles. Unfortunately it is not really a choice, how one's body will turn out. I ended up looking pretty bog-standard guy-ish. Had I happened to have a more naturally androgynous appearance I wonder if I would have been inclined to push that side of myself more? As it was, between social standards and what worked well for me, I've stayed pretty 'guy.' For you, if you were less 'petite but busty' I wonder if you would have tended to channel your androgynous side more?
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:52 PM   #18
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Hm..not sure if you could call me genderqueer or not. Basically I was a girl, raised as a boy (don't ask...), who was very obviously female (hourglass shape, C-cup, feminine facial features, etc), but dressed male and dated males and females.

So physically, aside from my highschool years when I looked like a skinny, punk boy, I am quite female...yet many women assume I am a lesbian. As far as personality goes....well, let's just say that anyone who meets me online and doesn't see my gender posted anywhere automatically assumes I am a male. I've even exchanged some emails with tech support at various mol bio companies, signed them with my clearly female name, and received "thank you sir" responses.

Oh!! I thought you were male until recently, but only because when you post i see your wee guy with the tash and think it is a cartoon of you!! lol ..
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:58 PM   #19
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Oh!! I thought you were male until recently, but only because when you post i see your wee guy with the tash and think it is a cartoon of you!! lol ..
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well there you go!

Aside: the av is Magus, a character from Chronotrigger (old SNES game, one of my favourites). I have a big tattoo of him on my back If only that was a cartoon of me - I would kick ass.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Melian View Post
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well there you go!

Aside: the av is Magus, a character from Chronotrigger (old SNES game, one of my favourites). I have a big tattoo of him on my back If only that was a cartoon of me - I would kick ass.
How cool O_O! can I see!? I wish I could get some SNES tattoos but I'm dedicated to having only Japanese style tattoos...

Back on topic though

I'd like to thank everyone for speaking so openly about this topic as I find it fascinating and enlightening, I have never ever been around anyone who might be called 'Genderqueer' and actually I had never even heard the word until a few days ago

I hope you don't mind me saying so, hehe I am very sheltered when it comes to gender and sexuality, but already the forum is opening my eyes...

Yay for the GLBTQ board!
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:00 PM   #21
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How cool O_O! can I see!? I wish I could get some SNES tattoos but I'm dedicated to having only Japanese style tattoos...
A lot of people have wanted to see these, lately!
You have been forwarded the official tat-pic email.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:22 PM   #22
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While not really girly (crappy nails, hardly ever in heels or dresses) I am definitely on the femme side of the scale. I'd like to be able to mess around with genderqueer appearance (altho i know it goes beyond that) but there's no denying that I'm girl (damn these hips, lol)....I'd like the straight-up-and-down-shane-from-the-l-word-stylee look for myself too, but I'm just not made that way.

I do LOVE the genderqueers and androgynes though Someone whose gender presentation confuses people is hot hot hot!
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Melian View Post
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well there you go!

Aside: the av is Magus, a character from Chronotrigger (old SNES game, one of my favourites). I have a big tattoo of him on my back If only that was a cartoon of me - I would kick ass.
OH!!! I knew i recognised him!! Brilliant!! I'm sure there is some website somewhere that makes cartoons of you..if not then there should be! I really loved the one that put your face on a wee elf as an xmas card to send to people.. that was creepy and funny at the same time..but i guess not a true cartoon..just your head stuck on a dancing elfs body!
Though actually, thats an interesting point. I have chatted to a lot of people on here not realising whether they were male or female for a long time. I really like that. Its like non gender specific chat in a way! lol.. Though, when i think about it..i actually always usually know when i'm speaking to a guy, soooooooo when i dont know whether someone is male or female i should assume that they are female>>
oh gosh, i'm speaking wank!!!
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:45 AM   #24
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OH!!! I knew i recognised him!! Brilliant!! I'm sure there is some website somewhere that makes cartoons of you..if not then there should be! I really loved the one that put your face on a wee elf as an xmas card to send to people.. that was creepy and funny at the same time..but i guess not a true cartoon..just your head stuck on a dancing elfs body!
Though actually, thats an interesting point. I have chatted to a lot of people on here not realising whether they were male or female for a long time. I really like that. Its like non gender specific chat in a way! lol.. Though, when i think about it..i actually always usually know when i'm speaking to a guy, soooooooo when i dont know whether someone is male or female i should assume that they are female>>
oh gosh, i'm speaking wank!!!
Assume whatever you like (I'm pleased and amused when I'm assumed to be male, actually ). And yeah...those elves....my friend made one of herself, her bf and their 3 cats....I'm still having nightmares of them grinding on each other.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:34 AM   #25
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I have never thought of myself as genderqueer, infact I never knew that it was a term, but according to Bex I am.

The obv bit being my crossdressing but like I'd sit down with my legs crossed and I do act fenime at times.
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