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Old 11-14-2011, 08:18 PM   #726
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Ah, this is so strange to hear. When I was actively looking (and I really, really tried too), I couldn't find many big butch-types who would take me seriously at all and they were appalled that I found their size appealing. The few who understand are more likely than not, FFAs themselves. Location could have something to do with it, though.

I hear you about the lesbian-only bias. As for wanting/needing to be poly well, that is a fundamental relationship difference isn't it?
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:21 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by Cors View Post
As for wanting/needing to be poly well, that is a fundamental relationship difference isn't it?
Tis true. Can't really hold that against someone.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:20 PM   #728
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Really, I've just given up for the meantime on dating. Between being trans and my preferences, I got tired of going on dates and having things go nowhere. So single and hating it here!

Nothing profound in this post...
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:27 AM   #729
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Really, I've just given up for the meantime on dating. Between being trans and my preferences, I got tired of going on dates and having things go nowhere. So single and hating it here!

Nothing profound in this post...
*offers hugs*
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:03 PM   #730
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Sorry to hear that you are frustrated.

I sometimes wonder how trans-accepting the majority would be in say, 20 years. Maybe, just maybe, being trans and queer (on top of the preferences everyone is entitled to) might not limit one's dating pool as severely as it does right now.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:12 PM   #731
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*offers hugs*
*hugs accepted*

Unrelated!

We're coming up on the TDOR and on a coincidental note, I started mones on a Nov 20th(2008). This year I am going to go to a TDOR event, and I hope I can drag one of my friends into going with me.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:21 PM   #732
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Sorry to hear that you are frustrated.

I sometimes wonder how trans-accepting the majority would be in say, 20 years. Maybe, just maybe, being trans and queer (on top of the preferences everyone is entitled to) might not limit one's dating pool as severely as it does right now.
It's sad that I can be clicking with a woman and have dates go fantastically until disclosure. Then I get no further contact... I've had my hopes up and ended up crying, eye makeup running down my face, looking like I got dumped on prom night.

I really hope things do change, but I really hope to have found someone special before I'm 44. I have said that I can get by alone, and I believe I can, but I do want someone I can truly be myself and enjoy a shared life with.

That all said, I'm still substantially happier and at peace more with myself having transitioned.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:29 AM   #733
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Disclosure is such tricky business!

I discuss that a fair bit with my trans friends and we came to the conclusion that the best thing to do to lay all the cards on the table pre-date or almost immediately. The chances of a date reacting well to being told one is trans is miniscule. The longer one drags it on, the more difficult it becomes, the greater the potential disappointment and even people who are otherwise extremely understanding and open-minded will most likely end up feeling deceived.

Balance that with the implications of being trans, the vulnerability of it all especially when one is not completely out or simply do not feel the need to broadcast one's past...

Even I, with my lesser issues have a tough time navigating this.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:28 PM   #734
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I'm VERY open to push back on this issue as I'm not trans and I'm certain I can't totally understand what it's like to transition. Having said that, it's always seemed to me that being trans is so fundamental to a person, their struggles and story, that not disclosing it immediately for what I imagine is the very important desire to "pass" can feel like dishonesty.

For example, I would have few qualms dating a trans woman or man who I knew was trans, but would be frustrated with it being shared after contact is established. I guess I just accept that gender is fluid and not dual and would feel more aligned with a very out trans person as an identity over someone who presents and is very aligned with their transitioned gender. (Does that last sentence make sense?)

Is that a wrong place to be?
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:30 PM   #735
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Disclosure is such tricky business!

I discuss that a fair bit with my trans friends and we came to the conclusion that the best thing to do to lay all the cards on the table pre-date or almost immediately. The chances of a date reacting well to being told one is trans is miniscule. The longer one drags it on, the more difficult it becomes, the greater the potential disappointment and even people who are otherwise extremely understanding and open-minded will most likely end up feeling deceived.

Balance that with the implications of being trans, the vulnerability of it all especially when one is not completely out or simply do not feel the need to broadcast one's past...

Even I, with my lesser issues have a tough time navigating this.
I used to believe that disclosure before a kiss or making out. I really think what you've said about predate disclosure is the way I'm going to have to go when I'm ready to get back into things.

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I'm VERY open to push back on this issue as I'm not trans and I'm certain I can't totally understand what it's like to transition. Having said that, it's always seemed to me that being trans is so fundamental to a person, their struggles and story, that not disclosing it immediately for what I imagine is the very important desire to "pass" can feel like dishonesty.

For example, I would have few qualms dating a trans woman or man who I knew was trans, but would be frustrated with it being shared after contact is established. I guess I just accept that gender is fluid and not dual and would feel more aligned with a very out trans person as an identity over someone who presents and is very aligned with their transitioned gender. (Does that last sentence make sense?)

Is that a wrong place to be?
I have had less issue with people finding it dishonest and more with they just don't want to date a transperson. I just don't like telling more people "hey, I used to be a dude." so I really hate that part, but I really do feel it is a necessary evil at one point. That's just my experience and other may find that when is more the issue.

On another point you made; I also didn't transition to be an out transsexual, I know people that are okay with being out and proud, but that just isn't me. I am aligned presentationwise as very femme; but have very masculine interests in some things. I can talk hours on cars, motorcycles, makeup and fashion; among other things. I basically guide my life on what feels right, and sometimes that aligns with what is societally associated with my gender identity, and sometimes it doesn't.

You're not saying you have an issue with trans people that fit stereotypes of their target gender; but that romantically you'd be better aligned with an out and proud type. And that you'd be put off by delayed disclosure. At least that's what I read that as and interpreted. I don't find anything, "wrong", with what you said, it's your preference.
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Old 11-19-2011, 01:19 AM   #736
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I have dated transpeople, MtF, FtM, pre, post or non-op before but apart from an ex who transitioned while we were together, I met them online or through local trans and activist groups so I have always known from the start. As much as I'd like to think of myself as fairly open-minded, understanding and even experienced in this regard, I can't be sure that I would react well if someone told me only after we have been going out for a while and before we have been intimate.

I never quite liked or understood the idea of making someone fall in love first and then hoping they would make a greater effort to understand after. I realise most of us are on our best behaviour on our first dates (why I dislike dating and don't take the sides people present of themselves early on super seriously to begin with - rant for another day, though) and see no need to divulge other personal, serious and possibly life-changing matters until we know the other person better. Sadly, being trans, much like one having existing children, being legally married still, being bankrupt or in massive debt, wanting an unconventional relationships, having extreme sexual fetishes or quirks is a huge deal for most that it would be foolish not to disclose it ASAP.

Some transpeople primarily identify as trans and see it as a fundamental part of their identity, while others see their past as irrelevant and something that they would only share selectively, particularly if they are passable post-op MtFs. I can understand both views and the in-betweens. I don't know if I would be put off but if anything, I would probably feel hurt or offended that they did not trust me enough to tell me right away and assumed I was like everyone else, even though I know they would probably have had their fair share of bad experiences.

I have numerous issues that are absolute deal-breakers for most potential partners. Harrowing as it is, I choose to bare myself and lay all these cards on the table early on and (unreasonably?) expect my openness, trust and vulnerability to be reciprocated. I have been burned by nasty spurned women who went around broadcasting these things, so it probably isn't the wisest thing to do but that mostly made me more selective of who I date instead of what I share. In a relationship, I value communication, emotional safety and comfort highly and over the years, I have realised that that is a vibe instead of something that can be nurtured over time. If the person I am seeing doesn't make me feel like I want to volunteer deep dark secrets from the start and I don't trigger the same impulse in return, it simply wouldn't work for me.

Last edited by Cors; 11-19-2011 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:02 AM   #737
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On a related note, IC that dates are probably not for me - dressing up for a romantic dinner with someone I am already with is awesome and fun, though.

I sat down with my best friends the other day and counted that I must have gone out with an obscene amount of people over the years. I felt like a kid in a candy store when I came out 10 years ago and it didn't help that I was young, out, different and had many attributes that made me the perfect trophy (as opposed to an actual person). Being perpetually bored, unsure of what I wanted, on the quest to find out, I pretty much agreed to go out with half the people who asked if they were decent enough and it was convenient for me. All this time, with hordes of different people, I never felt that spark and hardly ever agreed to second, third, forth dates. I was always upfront about my intentions, offered to pay for myself and never misled anyone but I can see why some thought it was foolish anyway.

Actual relationships? Almost always with friends I don't even expect to hook up with and I even used to sort people into friend or date category because I dislike the idea of overlaps. All that made me wonder if my excitement and expectations upon meeting someone who is "my type" is what ended up nipping things in the bud, which would have been a shame. I feel like I have tried, of course, but on hindsight I couldn't have known or cared that much back then. I thought I had a firm idea of what I wanted, but I didn't realise how much I needed and that I was simply not in the right place to give and receive.

I don't regret my experiences though, all lessons to be learned. When the enormity of what I have now strikes, even though it only came after painful growth and at significant personal cost, I cannot help but feel self-conscious sometimes and a little undeserving, given my flighty past, the scores of people who have had their hearts and minds in the right places for years - everyone deserves to feel touched by an angel and have their lives enriched. I wish there is more love (in general and specific) to go around. This world sure needs it!

Last edited by Cors; 11-19-2011 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:17 AM   #738
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Yesterday morning, two of my girlfriends broke up with me.

That's the bad part about poly... much more opportunities for sadness.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:51 AM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Rose View Post
Yesterday morning, two of my girlfriends broke up with me.

That's the bad part about poly... much more opportunities for sadness.
I cannot help but think you didn't phrase that quite properly as anytime you have a situation where TWO girlfriends break up with a person, chances are that the disgruntled resented the plurality of the situation.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:25 AM   #740
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Originally Posted by Cors View Post
I have dated transpeople, MtF, FtM, pre, post or non-op before but apart from an ex who transitioned while we were together, I met them online or through local trans and activist groups so I have always known from the start. As much as I'd like to think of myself as fairly open-minded, understanding and even experienced in this regard, I can't be sure that I would react well if someone told me only after we have been going out for a while and before we have been intimate.

I never quite liked or understood the idea of making someone fall in love first and then hoping they would make a greater effort to understand after. I realise most of us are on our best behaviour on our first dates (why I dislike dating and don't take the sides people present of themselves early on super seriously to begin with - rant for another day, though) and see no need to divulge other personal, serious and possibly life-changing matters until we know the other person better. Sadly, being trans, much like one having existing children, being legally married still, being bankrupt or in massive debt, wanting an unconventional relationships, having extreme sexual fetishes or quirks is a huge deal for most that it would be foolish not to disclose it ASAP.

Some transpeople primarily identify as trans and see it as a fundamental part of their identity, while others see their past as irrelevant and something that they would only share selectively, particularly if they are passable post-op MtFs. I can understand both views and the in-betweens. I don't know if I would be put off but if anything, I would probably feel hurt or offended that they did not trust me enough to tell me right away and assumed I was like everyone else, even though I know they would probably have had their fair share of bad experiences.

I have numerous issues that are absolute deal-breakers for most potential partners. Harrowing as it is, I choose to bare myself and lay all these cards on the table early on and (unreasonably?) expect my openness, trust and vulnerability to be reciprocated. I have been burned by nasty spurned women who went around broadcasting these things, so it probably isn't the wisest thing to do but that mostly made me more selective of who I date instead of what I share. In a relationship, I value communication, emotional safety and comfort highly and over the years, I have realised that that is a vibe instead of something that can be nurtured over time. If the person I am seeing doesn't make me feel like I want to volunteer deep dark secrets from the start and I don't trigger the same impulse in return, it simply wouldn't work for me.
For me, it was less that I wanted the other person to fall in love with me before I disclosed, it's that I wanted to be sure I liked them, and am past that best behavior period. I think I'm at the cards on the table method now just to not waste time and suffer heartbreak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cors View Post
On a related note, IC that dates are probably not for me - dressing up for a romantic dinner with someone I am already with is awesome and fun, though.

I sat down with my best friends the other day and counted that I must have gone out with an obscene amount of people over the years. I felt like a kid in a candy store when I came out 10 years ago and it didn't help that I was young, out, different and had many attributes that made me the perfect trophy (as opposed to an actual person). Being perpetually bored, unsure of what I wanted, on the quest to find out, I pretty much agreed to go out with half the people who asked if they were decent enough and it was convenient for me. All this time, with hordes of different people, I never felt that spark and hardly ever agreed to second, third, forth dates. I was always upfront about my intentions, offered to pay for myself and never misled anyone but I can see why some thought it was foolish anyway.

Actual relationships? Almost always with friends I don't even expect to hook up with and I even used to sort people into friend or date category because I dislike the idea of overlaps. All that made me wonder if my excitement and expectations upon meeting someone who is "my type" is what ended up nipping things in the bud, which would have been a shame. I feel like I have tried, of course, but on hindsight I couldn't have known or cared that much back then. I thought I had a firm idea of what I wanted, but I didn't realise how much I needed and that I was simply not in the right place to give and receive.

I don't regret my experiences though, all lessons to be learned. When the enormity of what I have now strikes, even though it only came after painful growth and at significant personal cost, I cannot help but feel self-conscious sometimes and a little undeserving, given my flighty past, the scores of people who have had their hearts and minds in the right places for years - everyone deserves to feel touched by an angel and have their lives enriched. I wish there is more love (in general and specific) to go around. This world sure needs it!
I am happy what I've learned so far (which hasn't been too long) even at the cost. I want to stop wasting time though; I feel even with my issues and baggage that I am overall a good "package" and have a lot to offer.

I'm watching AbFab right now, so I might be editing this post later.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:15 AM   #741
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I cannot help but think you didn't phrase that quite properly as anytime you have a situation where TWO girlfriends break up with a person, chances are that the disgruntled resented the plurality of the situation.
I guess some more explanation is in order... they're also dating each other and felt that I wasn't paying enough attention to them. Which is kinda true. I don't exactly have the right to wallow in misery very much. u_u
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:28 AM   #742
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I made a post on Facebook about my gender expression. Within hours I got a lot of emails and texts that were nothing but positive, and I noticed I lost some Friends from my list, they politely went away quietly. I'm glad that the people I'm closest to have absolutely no issue with my gender expression. It's a very big relief. But this is going to be difficult for the dating scene.

I've already started to disclose it right away with people, but it's not going well. I think I'm stuck in singledom forever. How can being of two genders at the same time be so bad? Apparently it is.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:22 PM   #743
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IC that I'm this close to buzzing my hair down to nothing. (But in my head this would be just the first step. Next comes a wig, then some serious eyebrow work, and then...you get the idea.)
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:49 AM   #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alicia Rose View Post
Yesterday morning, two of my girlfriends broke up with me.

That's the bad part about poly... much more opportunities for sadness.
Sorry to hear about your breakups.

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Originally Posted by CarlaSixx View Post
I made a post on Facebook about my gender expression. Within hours I got a lot of emails and texts that were nothing but positive, and I noticed I lost some Friends from my list, they politely went away quietly. I'm glad that the people I'm closest to have absolutely no issue with my gender expression. It's a very big relief. But this is going to be difficult for the dating scene.

I've already started to disclose it right away with people, but it's not going well. I think I'm stuck in singledom forever. How can being of two genders at the same time be so bad? Apparently it is.
Kudos to you on coming out! I'm glad people were mostly supportive. With duality though, perhaps it comes down to being able to explain to a layperson what it means for you and how you would like to be treated with regards to pronouns, identity etc. As for dating, maybe you have a better chance finding someone accepting at activist or support groups? Also, how important is it for you that they must understand, if their hearts are in the right place and they are willing to try? The ones I used to frequent had quite a handful of people who are admirers, partners, supporters or often genderqueer themselves. People at those places can be quite polarising when it comes to an androgyne or hermaphrodite identity, though.

My own gender and queer identity had the opposite effect on potential dates, even among those who are also queer. It attracted the wrong kinds - people who were curious and expected me to be some kind of kinky genderbending experiment or self-narrating zoo exhibit. I've been out with many cis folks who genuinely didn't mind, though, even if they couldn't empathise and sometimes stepped on my toes.

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IC that I'm this close to buzzing my hair down to nothing. (But in my head this would be just the first step. Next comes a wig, then some serious eyebrow work, and then...you get the idea.)
It sounds like fun, though! I sometimes fantasise about doing this. Better go wig shopping first!
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:18 AM   #745
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IC that I'm this close to buzzing my hair down to nothing. (But in my head this would be just the first step. Next comes a wig, then some serious eyebrow work, and then...you get the idea.)
Ahhh nooo don't do iiiiit D:

Just grow your hair longer. It may take more time but it's totes worth it.

In other news, one of the breakups has been canceled... we've talked things over and re-worked how our relationship works and we should be doing better now.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:33 PM   #746
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So I don't think I've posted in this board before, and I guess it isn't really dims-relevant than it is GLBTQ. I'm in a long distance relationship with an amazing guy, and we've recently opened it up so I can date this one girl, Megan.

It's been awesome, and very different. She's VERY much 'out', and insists on cuddling/kissing in public. Which I think is great, but it's definitely something to get accustomed to, especially when you catch people staring. Vancouver is a pretty friendly city for this type of business, but yeah. Haha, I'm such an old prude.

Heh. I guess I just wanted to share.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:36 AM   #747
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I confess I was a little upset today, when a friend from Junior High School came into work and started snapping his fingers, adding a lisp (mind you he never had one before...) and called me things like; Honey, Baby, Doll and such.

I mean I use those terms for my girlfriends, and his overt sort of "More Fabulous Then You, and You Should Know It," sort of offended me.

He said he felt the same when I started doing the same thing to him. I called him; Sugar, Love and Baby. We went and had a beer (well, Cosmos and BJ Shots) afterwards and he said he normally doesn't act like that, but he wanted to try it out for awhile to see my reaction. It just wasn't him, and I explained that in our small town (with smaller minds) he should be himself- but I hugged him and told him I support him while he found out who he was (even if he was more "fabulous" then I... lol).

Besties. We sang A Spice Girls Song and then Tom Petty.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:54 PM   #748
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One of my best friends acknowledged my "state" today.

We were talking about friends and boyfriends, like hanging out together and stuff... and she turned to me and said: "Hanging out with you over all these years has been great. I get a guy's point of view on things, and learned how to talk to guys to be friends or more. You're not really a guy, but you are a guy. And I'm so glad it's like that."

... I didn't show it, but I was SO HAPPY. It's SO good to see she understands perfectly, and is accepting of it, too.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:44 PM   #749
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Guys. I want a frickin' girlfriend.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:51 PM   #750
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Guys. I want a frickin' girlfriend.

Hi, your shampoo collection and my eye shadow collection should meet up and have lunch.
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