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Old 01-06-2010, 06:37 AM   #1
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Default bi-gendered?

This is something i have been thinking about for a while and my thoughts are not totally formed yet but i might as well get them out there so others can help them grow or not.
I was thinking about people who are bi-gendered... and actually i wondered if this is a 'thing' and if there are many people who feel this.
I don't mean bi-gender-typed people, who identify with both the masculine and feminine but feel right in thier bodies. - mmm an example of this might be someone who might wear both male and female typed clothes or engage in both male and female typed activities.
I have a friend who says she wishes she was a boy sometimes. She means in a physical sense. Though, she does not feel unhappy and can identify with her female body so would not want to/doesnt feel the need to become male.
I wonder if she could be considered bi-gendered. ??
I was comparing this to the sexuality spectrum and wondered if being Trans (where you know you have to change) could be compared to people being almost totally gay ie. you have no choice in the matter.
I have a couple of bi female friends who have confessed they have more or less looked out more for men because it would just be easier (one of my friends parents are pretty old fashioned).
IF you are totally gay though really the only choices you have are to be with those of the same sex or nothing (which may make you miserable)
hmm.. i might be over complicating things here actually.
Do you think a large % of people do think about wanting to be the gender they are not but are happy enough not to actually have to do anything about it?
oh.. my friend said when she was growing up she wanted to be a boy but now she seems to be ok with being a girl but has confessed perhaps if she had been offered when younger she might have had a sex change. Though, i can feel her soul/essence is male (if that makes any sense!?) ...
These thoughts are not fully formed btw.. so sorry..
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:37 AM   #2
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Interesting question, Mer!

My take, the short form: Biological gender is mostly a binary thing, but mental gender is more of a spectrum, so I think it is normal that for many people their mental gender is partially in both areas.

My take, the long form:

Way back I posted a couple of drawings, one showing how we are so often categorized and the other more how I saw it, with regards to gender and what we are attracted to. I'm re-posting them here (this time in jpg so they are easier to see), because it really just sums up my feelings so much better than words.

To try and put things into words....I'm fairly indifferent to being male. Since we generally get born being one or the other, I suppose this one is fine. Would have liked to have tried them both out then been able to make a choice, but that option was not available. There is a lot of stuff about being male that either bug me or I don't care much about, but I admit shorter washroom lines is nice. I'm sure if I were magically turned into a woman that there would be things there that either bugged me or that I would not care much about (although with different hormones, window on the world, and so forth I'd obviously be a different person, so a bit hard to be certain what I'd think).

Given a fair degree of indifference about gender, or at least a fairly wide band in how I could operate, I've mostly taken the easy path and been pretty 'guy.' To give a trivial example, I can enjoy watching figure skating*, and I can enjoy watching a hockey game, so I'll generally choose the former over the latter, as most of the people I socialize with are men, so the hockey game gives me more to discuss with them. The same general logic applies to many other areas. And because of decades of these choices, my experience and skills and habits are all more aligned with behaving in a male way, but that way doesn't feel any more 'right' to me than do those in which I have less skills, experience, and habit.

I'm sure not trans, I don't think I'd feel any more at home in my skin as a woman than a man, and given how unlikely it is that any current technology would make me into a remotely convincing woman the reality is that no doubt I'd be less at home in my skin were I to change. And it isn't like I feel I could ever be 'all woman' any more than I'm 'all man' even when acting fairly typically male. Hence I don't view it so much as a 'bi' thing (implying a bit of one and a bit of the other) so much as a smooshed out, spread around, mush together of bits of both of them.

* My enjoying watching figure skating has nothing in particular to do with women in short dresses, I don't find figure skaters of either gender particularly appealing in an erotic sense.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:45 PM   #3
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I agree with the above image.

I can't tell you how many times I've gender changed mid-masturbation. Sometimes I'm a man the whole way through. I'm truly bisexual in the sense that I might start off with being attracted to a man/woman, but I won't really even know what gender/person will end up getting me off in the end.

Quite a blunt post from my part, but I hope that helps others be ok with "being blurry".

The one thing that is *always* constant is fat. Maybe it's just a pudgy belly - maybe it's almost 400lbs. There will always be a tummy, ass, boobs, etc fixation.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:53 PM   #4
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As far as the no choice in the matter goes, being trans, I believe there is no choice. It takes time and introspection to realize what you are/aren't. It may take someone 25-50 years and someone may figure it out way before that, but I don't really believe being trans is a choice. However, action to address the inherent Gender Identity Disorder is a choice.

The way I have seen it, there are people who do nothing out of fear, self-issues and commitments, among other reasons. That was not meant to be a blanket statement, a pejorative remark or anything remotely derogative.

I don't subscribe to the idea of "all-woman" or "all-man", and believe that gender isn't completely binary but rather more fluid. I identify as female, but that doesn't mean there isn't stuff I like and dislike about it. There were things I liked about being male as well. However, I feel happier where I am than where I was. Some people are non-op for reasons other than money or opportunity, they may be comfortable with their genetalia.

However, if I didn't like what I've done, I'd be mad about all the money and anguish I've been through. Laser and electrolysis is a bitch and a half. I also am at a point where I could have someone punch me in the boob and kick me in the nuts. Yeah for me.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #5
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In my human sexuality class that I'm currently taking my professor drew a line with two arrows and wrote "woman" at one end and "man" at the other. Basically what he told us is that there are very, very few people who are 100% male gendered or 100% female gendered, that although most of us are mostly one or the other and identify as one or the other, we are all somewhere on the continuum. In my experiences, I find this to be true. Personally, I identify almost completely with being a woman and find great comfort in my skin as a woman but that doesn't stop me from identifying, on occasion, in regard to certain things, to masculinity or things associated with men.

Somewhat unrelated, but to add on to the thing about bi friends looking out for men.. I do exactly that. I specifically attempt to form relationships with men only, although I do think I could be in a long-term relationship with a woman (and would consider it, if the right woman happened to be in my life) simply because it is the easier thing to do. I'm not proud of the choice, but at this point in my life it makes the most sense for me personally.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Fangs View Post
I agree with the above image.

I can't tell you how many times I've gender changed mid-masturbation. Sometimes I'm a man the whole way through. I'm truly bisexual in the sense that I might start off with being attracted to a man/woman, but I won't really even know what gender/person will end up getting me off in the end.

Quite a blunt post from my part, but I hope that helps others be ok with "being blurry".

The one thing that is *always* constant is fat. Maybe it's just a pudgy belly - maybe it's almost 400lbs. There will always be a tummy, ass, boobs, etc fixation.
Same here.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:04 PM   #7
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I've been thinking about gender identity a lot lately, so yay for mergirl reading my mind and posting this! The reason I've been so focused on it is because I'm never entirely sure where I fit in. I'm not exactly androgynous in the way most people think of it; it's more like I'm alternately extremely masculine or extremely feminine, always full swing of the pendulum. There are times when I revel in the voluptuous femininity of my body, all fertility-goddess-earth-mother style, and there are times when I feel like I should have a penis, like I'm missing something that should be a part of me. I totally identify with the mid-masturbatory gender switching too. Ah, stupid brain... will you never be satisfied? >_<
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:29 PM   #8
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Yes, there are times I'd like to ge a very fat woman, and times I'm satisfied being a guy
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:33 AM   #9
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I think many people who would fit this concept call themselves gender benders or gender queer (at least, I consider myself gender queer). I don't know that I would use the phrase 'bi-gendered' because I think the focus on twos shores up the illusory idea that there are only two genders, and that one should fit completely on one side or the other of that pair. I guess I've read too much Judith Butler or Jacques Derrida.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:03 AM   #10
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To me, someone who is bi-gender(ed) is a person feels like they are born in the wrong body, kind of like someone who is transgender but their true self is a hermaphrodite. In other words, they want to be simultaneously male and female with the parts to go along with it.

I consider myself genderqueer. I do appear conventionally feminine, but I often feel like a drag queen when I am dressed to the nines. The idea of playing around with gender roles also get me all hot and bothered - nothing more exciting than packing under a tight leather skirt and bending someone who is outwardly tough and masculine over. I sometimes wish I am male, but I would want to be extremely campy, flamboyant and queer so most people don't take it seriously.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangs View Post
I agree with the above image.

I can't tell you how many times I've gender changed mid-masturbation. Sometimes I'm a man the whole way through. I'm truly bisexual in the sense that I might start off with being attracted to a man/woman, but I won't really even know what gender/person will end up getting me off in the end.

Quite a blunt post from my part, but I hope that helps others be ok with "being blurry".

The one thing that is *always* constant is fat. Maybe it's just a pudgy belly - maybe it's almost 400lbs. There will always be a tummy, ass, boobs, etc fixation.
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Same here.
Thirded.

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I've been thinking about gender identity a lot lately, so yay for mergirl reading my mind and posting this!
This was no mind reading feat.. you implanted thoughts as well you know!! Grrr!!

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Originally Posted by butch View Post
I think many people who would fit this concept call themselves gender benders or gender queer (at least, I consider myself gender queer). I don't know that I would use the phrase 'bi-gendered' because I think the focus on twos shores up the illusory idea that there are only two genders, and that one should fit completely on one side or the other of that pair. I guess I've read too much Judith Butler or Jacques Derrida.
I guess i just used the term 'bi-gendered', as i would 'bi-sexual' -In the way that there is a spectrum but the bi bit is in regards to the two points at either end. I always thought 'bi-sexual' was a very wide term, but i suppose it is between two points, so i see the 'bi' part in regards to that. Though, actually, i do prefer queer and gender queer.

Do you think there is a co-relation between certain gender stereotypes and sexuality?
ie. That more gay men that straight prefer converation based tasks as opposed to manual ones or that gay women prefer to wear trousers than dresses? (hu..those were the only examples i cold think of!!).
I know that there is a lot of diversity and that people are different. I dont like to generalise but i have noticed that my friends that veer more to the gay side of the spectrum prefer things that are non gendertyped and those who veer more towards the hetro prefer gender stereotyped things. I find this interesting, as it goes against a lot of the things i have learned about gender development. Obviously, we have our mainly straight guys who like to wear dresses and mostly straight woman who have a toy truck collection. Is this the minority or something we just think/are told is the minority? Perhaps there are a lot of people who repress non gender-typed behaviour until it becomes impossible to supress?? I think this becomes more so for men as there is less leway on what is deemed acceptable for a male to do as far as expressing 'feminine' traits goes.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:10 AM   #12
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To me, someone who is bi-gender(ed) is a person feels like they are born in the wrong body, kind of like someone who is transgender but their true self is a hermaphrodite. In other words, they want to be simultaneously male and female with the parts to go along with it.

I consider myself genderqueer. I do appear conventionally feminine, but I often feel like a drag queen when I am dressed to the nines. The idea of playing around with gender roles also get me all hot and bothered - nothing more exciting than packing under a tight leather skirt and bending someone who is outwardly tough and masculine over. I sometimes wish I am male, but I would want to be extremely campy, flamboyant and queer so most people don't take it seriously.
Indeed. I often think if i was male i would still be queer, though i am not sure how that works! Though, obviously i could not know for sure..
I think it takes more than xx to make a woman, and when i have thoughts about being male then i believe i am for that moment. Though, my thoughts are not driven and i float somewhere closer to female identified...male curious but married to my female self perhaps??
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:29 PM   #13
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There are times when I revel in the voluptuous femininity of my body, all fertility-goddess-earth-mother style, and there are times when I feel like I should have a penis, like I'm missing something that should be a part of me.
Oh, please. You NEVER STOP TALKING about your giant wang. When you're drunk, you describe what you do to me with it.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:16 PM   #14
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This is something i have been thinking about for a while and my thoughts are not totally formed yet but i might as well get them out there so others can help them grow or not.
I was thinking about people who are bi-gendered... and actually i wondered if this is a 'thing' and if there are many people who feel this.
I don't mean bi-gender-typed people, who identify with both the masculine and feminine but feel right in thier bodies. - mmm an example of this might be someone who might wear both male and female typed clothes or engage in both male and female typed activities.
I have a friend who says she wishes she was a boy sometimes. She means in a physical sense. Though, she does not feel unhappy and can identify with her female body so would not want to/doesnt feel the need to become male.
I wonder if she could be considered bi-gendered. ??
I was comparing this to the sexuality spectrum and wondered if being Trans (where you know you have to change) could be compared to people being almost totally gay ie. you have no choice in the matter.
I have a couple of bi female friends who have confessed they have more or less looked out more for men because it would just be easier (one of my friends parents are pretty old fashioned).
IF you are totally gay though really the only choices you have are to be with those of the same sex or nothing (which may make you miserable)
hmm.. i might be over complicating things here actually.
Do you think a large % of people do think about wanting to be the gender they are not but are happy enough not to actually have to do anything about it?
oh.. my friend said when she was growing up she wanted to be a boy but now she seems to be ok with being a girl but has confessed perhaps if she had been offered when younger she might have had a sex change. Though, i can feel her soul/essence is male (if that makes any sense!?) ...
These thoughts are not fully formed btw.. so sorry..
Re: bolded bit - I don't know about a large number of people, but...
without going into waaay personal detail (maybe laterz, it's cold in here for the fingers typing)....
*I'm* kinda gender ambivalent... which is to say - I act like a guy (mostly) cos this is a bloke body I'm in... I don't hate my body, it's fairly serviceable and has carried me through many awesome adventures - so I'm strongly disinclined to majorly modify it.... aaand I've looked briefly at the transformative options out there and none of them include- that awesome female (multi)orgasm (I=jealous!), ability to bear kids etc.
I'm not wanting cast any aspersions on anyone who HAS gone thro' or wants to go thro' trans... respect to those folks... I'm just talking about how I feel about me, my body, personally...
So what this adds up to is: chick-me gets a bit of expression with the drag act thing once in a while, or if I have a gf who thinks it's hott... and I guess that'll do... (in the absence of magic)
I'd've been cool being born a chick I'm sure...
I tend to get on well with girls-who-feel-like-they-should've-been-a-guy... Some of my fave peeps are like that!
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:27 AM   #15
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Oh, please. You NEVER STOP TALKING about your giant wang. When you're drunk, you describe what you do to me with it.
Oh Teleute. Now, what would she do to you with her giant wang?
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:48 PM   #16
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Oh Teleute. Now, what would she do to you with her giant wang?
That's NSFW.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:56 PM   #17
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I've been thinking about gender identity a lot lately, so yay for mergirl reading my mind and posting this! The reason I've been so focused on it is because I'm never entirely sure where I fit in. I'm not exactly androgynous in the way most people think of it; it's more like I'm alternately extremely masculine or extremely feminine, always full swing of the pendulum. There are times when I revel in the voluptuous femininity of my body, all fertility-goddess-earth-mother style, and there are times when I feel like I should have a penis, like I'm missing something that should be a part of me. I totally identify with the mid-masturbatory gender switching too. Ah, stupid brain... will you never be satisfied? >_<
Psst! http://www.feeldoe.com Don't tell CheekyJez I told ya!

I can't remember where I heard about these - probably Dan Savage... :P
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:42 PM   #18
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Psst! http://www.feeldoe.com Don't tell CheekyJez I told ya!

I can't remember where I heard about these - probably Dan Savage... :P
Ahhhh the feeldoe...something I'm planning to add to my collection (hopefully pretty soon).
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:44 AM   #19
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It took me some time to get back to this thread, and mergirl, your question about gender variance and sexuality is an interesting one, for sure. I've felt for a long time that my sexuality is exactly how it is because of my gender presentation. I think if I never had to question my gender when I was a child, and to have struggled with feeling a disconnect between what gender I wanted to be, and what gender I was born as, then I feel it would be probable that I'd be straight.

There's no way to 'know' this, but I do know that the narrative of my understanding of my sexuality doesn't match those given by people who feel that they were 'born' gay. Plus, well, I'm bi, and I wonder if bisexual people feel they were 'born that way' in the same ways that a lot of gay and lesbian people talk about.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:39 AM   #20
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It took me some time to get back to this thread, and mergirl, your question about gender variance and sexuality is an interesting one, for sure. I've felt for a long time that my sexuality is exactly how it is because of my gender presentation. I think if I never had to question my gender when I was a child, and to have struggled with feeling a disconnect between what gender I wanted to be, and what gender I was born as, then I feel it would be probable that I'd be straight.

There's no way to 'know' this, but I do know that the narrative of my understanding of my sexuality doesn't match those given by people who feel that they were 'born' gay. Plus, well, I'm bi, and I wonder if bisexual people feel they were 'born that way' in the same ways that a lot of gay and lesbian people talk about.
This reminds me of the bit in 'but i'm a cheerleader' when the butch girl with the shaved head and skater clothes is crying and yelling "but i like cock!!"..
I was more gender identified as a male i suppose when i was younger..i'm not sure if this affected my sexuality. My sexuality and gender identity is very fluid and there are times when i am more into men than others (i always prefer women i would say though)- I'm not sure if this matches up with when i am feeling more feminine or masculine.. perhaps i should take notes! lol. hmm..
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. lots to wonder about. Arn't humans interesting wee beasties?!
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:26 PM   #21
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Psst! http://www.feeldoe.com Don't tell CheekyJez I told ya!

I can't remember where I heard about these - probably Dan Savage... :P


I totally just bought one of those today >_>
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:33 PM   #22
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@strangeangel and Teluete - partay @your place! ... My work here is done! :P
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:11 AM   #23
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I totally just bought one of those today >_>
pst px pls!!
I went to a dinner party once wearing a strap-on. It felt nice. Though, i have to confess i have never used one in a sexual situation. Though, i have given myself a jolly good wank!
mmm.. i think i would like to have a strap on with bits that go inside so .. erm yes.
*cough*
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:56 PM   #24
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pst px pls!!
I went to a dinner party once wearing a strap-on. It felt nice. Though, i have to confess i have never used one in a sexual situation. Though, i have given myself a jolly good wank!
mmm.. i think i would like to have a strap on with bits that go inside so .. erm yes.
*cough*
Your wish is granted! Cos that's exactly what a feeldoe is!
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Old 01-19-2010, 03:41 AM   #25
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Your wish is granted! Cos that's exactly what a feeldoe is!
Oooohhh. *goes to buy one*
Eta-When i recover ecconomically from xmas, a couple of birthdays and my anniversary!
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