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Old 03-22-2009, 07:41 AM   #1
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Question On Weight Gain, Limitations, And Love...

Hello everyone!
As many of you who have read my previous posts may already know, there is a BBW in my life who is absolutely driving me wild .
However, by my experience with her I am constantly thinking about weight issues, and currently the major question that springs to mind is:

What are the moral implications of weight gaining and encouraging? And to what extent should this behavior be limited, if at all?

Some things I noticed about my particular scenario:
-In a relationship I seek not to control my partner, as I do not wish to be controlled myself.
-About a week ago when she gained weight again I told her how it pleased me, and she said that it pleased her to please me.
-She is currently not in a mindset that fully accepts her size, as she is a newcomer to the concept of size acceptance, and thus, she still has an impractical society-based apprehension towards gaining weight.
-I'd love for her to gain weight.
-She is an open minded individual and warming up to size acceptance quite quickly.
-She has no current problems with health or discomfort due to her weight (besides shopping for clothes).
-I am her first boyfriend, and thus, she has only recently realized a general conception of how attractive she can be.
-However, she is also my first girlfriend


In regard to the first three pieces of evidence in my scenario, I'm convinced that encouraging her to gain weight in her current mindset would be 100% against my relationship ethics. However I would like her to gain in the future, and if she lost her societal apprehension then encouraging her would not be against said ethics. Given her open mindedness and her lack of heath and discomfort problems, I don't think that I will have to worry too much about her getting rid of that apprehension. However, we are very new to dating and relationships, and she still yet might not shake that negative influence. If she does not, I might need to sacrifice a freedom of my own, or simply drop the whole matter. This brings me to yet another question:

To what extent do partners in a relationship control each other? And what amount of control is too much? Is there such thing as too little?

Any thoughts or consideration on any of these questions would be fantastic, I'd love to hear what you all think!

Hehe and sorry for the mini-essay lol
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:09 PM   #2
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If one of you is ever "controlling" the other in terms of the relationship (and not a one-night fantasy), then in my experience, it'll never last.

Each of you has to be yourself. If you make your partner do something for you, even if they like to make you happy, and it makes them happy to make you happy, if they're not happy with it, it'll eventually show.

Be yourself and let her be. See what happens, take it slow, and go from there.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:29 PM   #3
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If one of you is ever "controlling" the other in terms of the relationship (and not a one-night fantasy), then in my experience, it'll never last.

Each of you has to be yourself. If you make your partner do something for you, even if they like to make you happy, and it makes them happy to make you happy, if they're not happy with it, it'll eventually show.

Be yourself and let her be. See what happens, take it slow, and go from there.
Thank you for responding, drxprime. I'm not sure that I was clear enough when I posted this, however: I mean control in even its most subtle forms, including those forms which are entirely innocent (i.e. a friend asking you to go bowling with them because they know that you enjoy it).

Thus, for all intents and purposes I am defining control as: directly affecting someone else's life to any degree, through the use of your connection with that person.
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:25 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Dism4l View Post
Thank you for responding, drxprime. I'm not sure that I was clear enough when I posted this, however: I mean control in even its most subtle forms, including those forms which are entirely innocent (i.e. a friend asking you to go bowling with them because they know that you enjoy it).

Thus, for all intents and purposes I am defining control as: directly affecting someone else's life to any degree, through the use of your connection with that person.
Fascinating discussion, and a great topic!

Dism4l, you have an interesting definition of control. I am not saying that you are wrong, but it's a broad (though not incorrect) definition of control. Really, really reminds me of the philosophical discussions in the Babylon 5 episode "Intersections in Real Time".

Yes, to a certain degree, the scenario of a friend asking you to go bowling is a form of control, though as you said it is innocent and it is entirely consensual and optional, in that a friend won't hold a gun to your head and force you to go bowling. However, in romantic relationships, partners can control each other in voluntary, consensual ways, like in a Dom/sub relationship, or BDSM play. These activities would be a form of control, though (one would hope) it would be entirely consensual.

As a (kinda chunky, but still very average compared to most of the ladies on here) girl dating and very much in love with an FA guy, yes, I can say that your preferences and attractions will influence your girlfriend's perception of herself and how she reacts to her body, and it sounds like they already have. You shouldn't feel guilty about this because this influence would be inevitable even if you didn't find fat girls particularly attractive. I'm sure that some of your girlfriend's notions about what is attractive in a man have rubbed off on you, as well, and again, there's nothing wrong in that.

If we love someone, we want to please them, to make them happy, and to satisfy their desires in a mate as much as we can. I would see something wrong with this desire ONLY when it is directed towards an abusive spouse/partner, an overly controlling spouse/partner, or someone who 'takes' but never 'gives' (in the sense of you doing something nice or sexually appealing for them, but the other person never, ever reciprocates).

Don't hide your attractions from your girl, but remember that ultimately it is her body. If she starts to feel physically bad from the weight, then she needs to consider losing it. You said that she feels no ill effects from the extra weight, so perhaps she will keep it. Ultimately, though, it is her decision. You just need to support her in whatever choice she makes, and be honest about how that affects your relationship with her.

Good luck.
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:40 PM   #5
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I hate to be a debbie downer but saying that she currently has no health problems due to her weight is kind of silly. You're only 18 so I'm going to assume she's somewhere in that general age group. Chances are, if health problems do arise they aren't going to show up this early.

Basically, it boils down to what she wants to do about her own weight. She has to make the decision for herself, and I feel like as long as you're supporting her in whatever decision she makes, you're fine.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:42 AM   #6
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Its up to her completely just remember that.
Trying to control someone else even tho' you have good intentions seems unfair.
Love and support her no matter what and you two will be fine.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:04 PM   #7
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts!
However, I'd like to reiterate the central questions:

To what extent is control manifest in a relationship?
What amount of control is too much?
Is there such thing as too little control?

I was only using my particular scenario as an exemplar. Although I do appreciate the relationship advice, I would like to incite further and broader discussion on the questions themselves.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:15 AM   #8
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-About a week ago when she gained weight again I told her how it pleased me, and she said that it pleased her to please me.
i think that is the most dangerous part, and it happens very often! people change to please someone, which is good to a certain level. but if someday she finds out, she gained a lot of weight for you, but is totally unhappy with it, what will happen then? and that is not because the partner controls the other one, but because we want to please so much! it is more an issue of controlling ourselves. and an issue of: do i want the same thing my partner does? what do i really want? can i live with the consequences? often it is not so easy to find out!
it think you should talk about what you both want, if she really wants to gain and you should talk to her about all your moral issues!

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Old 04-21-2009, 09:35 AM   #9
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If we love someone, we want to please them, to make them happy, and to satisfy their desires in a mate as much as we can. I would see something wrong with this desire ONLY when it is directed towards an abusive spouse/partner, an overly controlling spouse/partner, or someone who 'takes' but never 'gives' (in the sense of you doing something nice or sexually appealing for them, but the other person never, ever reciprocates).
Well said Gutsgirl...

Drop the silly nonsense about control Dism4l, everyone changes some to accomodate who they are intimate with and if you're both happy it's a good thing and if you're really not than you're not compatiable and it's a bad thing (if it's extreme go find someone else). Pressure, control, wants, needs, trying new things, saying yes and no are all part of the tug of war that is found in real relationships. And no it is NOT all up to her, and it's not all up to you, it's between the both of you.

My advice: Don't come here for validation and 'help me with my girl' questions'. Go and talk to her, and good luck living with your self censor list.

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Old 04-21-2009, 10:22 AM   #10
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well..maybe she wants to be controlled...some of us girls really like that...
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:24 AM   #11
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Fascinating discussion, and a great topic!

Dism4l, you have an interesting definition of control. I am not saying that you are wrong, but it's a broad (though not incorrect) definition of control. Really, really reminds me of the philosophical discussions in the Babylon 5 episode "Intersections in Real Time".

Yes, to a certain degree, the scenario of a friend asking you to go bowling is a form of control, though as you said it is innocent and it is entirely consensual and optional, in that a friend won't hold a gun to your head and force you to go bowling. However, in romantic relationships, partners can control each other in voluntary, consensual ways, like in a Dom/sub relationship, or BDSM play. These activities would be a form of control, though (one would hope) it would be entirely consensual.

As a (kinda chunky, but still very average compared to most of the ladies on here) girl dating and very much in love with an FA guy, yes, I can say that your preferences and attractions will influence your girlfriend's perception of herself and how she reacts to her body, and it sounds like they already have. You shouldn't feel guilty about this because this influence would be inevitable even if you didn't find fat girls particularly attractive. I'm sure that some of your girlfriend's notions about what is attractive in a man have rubbed off on you, as well, and again, there's nothing wrong in that.

If we love someone, we want to please them, to make them happy, and to satisfy their desires in a mate as much as we can. I would see something wrong with this desire ONLY when it is directed towards an abusive spouse/partner, an overly controlling spouse/partner, or someone who 'takes' but never 'gives' (in the sense of you doing something nice or sexually appealing for them, but the other person never, ever reciprocates).

Don't hide your attractions from your girl, but remember that ultimately it is her body. If she starts to feel physically bad from the weight, then she needs to consider losing it. You said that she feels no ill effects from the extra weight, so perhaps she will keep it. Ultimately, though, it is her decision. You just need to support her in whatever choice she makes, and be honest about how that affects your relationship with her.

Good luck.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:27 AM   #12
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Dism4l;

I was once very much in your sort of situation. Because of that, I might be reading some of my own history into your situation when I reply, so remember this is just the opinion of a stranger who doesn't know, take with a grain or cup of salt, etc.

If you somehow exerted no control over her at all, and she gained, then you could enjoy the gain with no guilt, which would be just awesome. Sadly, that pretty much belongs in the realm of fantasy. Couples influence each other all the time, in all sorts of ways. If you remain as a couple, you will be influencing her.

(One of the things that means is that you'll have to deal with some FA guilt. There is a whole thread dedicated to it, for the very good reason that lots of us deal with it. Sorry, but you probably can't stay sensitive to her wants, needs, feelings, etc, and stay an FA and not feel some guilt, so all you can really do is learn how to cope with it in a healthy way.)

So how do you live your life in a way that feels ethical? All I can suggest is that you try to moderate and even counter-balance your own influence. So instead of saying it pleases you that she’s gained, you say that you like the way the new she looks with the new gain, even that it turns you on, but you moderate that by saying that you hope she is happy with it, and that it is more important to you that she be happy with her body than that you be happy with it. To counterbalance your pleasure at her gain, you make it clear that if she ever feels she needs to lose, that you’ll support her. You are still an influence on her to gain (she knows it pleases you and turn you on), but she knows that your interest in and support of her is not conditional on it, and that you want her to be happy.

As for her gaining, odds are that the ‘it pleases me to please you’ will only last through modest weight gain. Making minor changes to please a partner is pretty normal, but not many people are willing to make major changes to that end. So make very clear in your head that ‘it pleases me to please you’ is not in any way equivalent to ‘I like gaining weight and would do it for my own sake.’ Very rarely does the former turn into the latter. Once she’s gained as much as she’s comfortable gaining she might stay at that size, or she might decide that she wants to lose some or all of it, and expect you to support her, on the theory that it will please her and that should please you.

Best of luck with all of this! There is no perfect answer, and to a large extent every relationship is the process of finding the comfortable median on all sorts of issues, including ones like these. Almost by definition, before finding the comfortable median there will be times where you go to places that are not comfortable for one or the other of you.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:52 AM   #13
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I hate to be a debbie downer but saying that she currently has no health problems due to her weight is kind of silly. You're only 18 so I'm going to assume she's somewhere in that general age group. Chances are, if health problems do arise they aren't going to show up this early.
He was making a statement and it wasn't silly.

Quote:
Basically, it boils down to what she wants to do about her own weight. She has to make the decision for herself, and I feel like as long as you're supporting her in whatever decision she makes, you're fine.
Ahhh, now here is a general response that is repeated often around here. I disagree by the way and let me illustrate why. Putting aside legitimate medical problems which are a different story - Let's reverse those roles. Let's say a girl starts a serious relationship with a guy who is very fit- that's what she's attracted to (the fitter the better) and they both know it. Everything is fine until one day, for whatever reason -doesn't matter according to the general statement, Joe six pack decides to turn his 200lb fit body into 350 lbs of flab. According to the general statement even though this will repulse (oh let's just say greatly dissappoint) her, it is his body, it is his decision-his own body, and thus she should support any decision he makes no matter what. Right? Maybe he decides to get piercings over 60% of his body. Shouldn't matter right? It's his decision and his alone and she should support it.

Hogwash, honestly who is going to put up with someone who doesn't respect the desires of their partners and than wants unconditional support on top of it? Pure fiction, no one would. In other words I think a more balanced and realistic response should replace general statements like the one above.

My last 2 cents for the thread, heading to a happy place now

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Old 04-21-2009, 12:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism4l View Post
Hello everyone!
As many of you who have read my previous posts may already know, there is a BBW in my life who is absolutely driving me wild .
However, by my experience with her I am constantly thinking about weight issues, and currently the major question that springs to mind is:

What are the moral implications of weight gaining and encouraging? And to what extent should this behavior be limited, if at all?

Some things I noticed about my particular scenario:
-In a relationship I seek not to control my partner, as I do not wish to be controlled myself.
-About a week ago when she gained weight again I told her how it pleased me, and she said that it pleased her to please me.
-She is currently not in a mindset that fully accepts her size, as she is a newcomer to the concept of size acceptance, and thus, she still has an impractical society-based apprehension towards gaining weight.
-I'd love for her to gain weight.
-She is an open minded individual and warming up to size acceptance quite quickly.
-She has no current problems with health or discomfort due to her weight (besides shopping for clothes).
-I am her first boyfriend, and thus, she has only recently realized a general conception of how attractive she can be.
-However, she is also my first girlfriend


In regard to the first three pieces of evidence in my scenario, I'm convinced that encouraging her to gain weight in her current mindset would be 100% against my relationship ethics. However I would like her to gain in the future, and if she lost her societal apprehension then encouraging her would not be against said ethics. Given her open mindedness and her lack of heath and discomfort problems, I don't think that I will have to worry too much about her getting rid of that apprehension. However, we are very new to dating and relationships, and she still yet might not shake that negative influence. If she does not, I might need to sacrifice a freedom of my own, or simply drop the whole matter. This brings me to yet another question:

To what extent do partners in a relationship control each other? And what amount of control is too much? Is there such thing as too little?

Any thoughts or consideration on any of these questions would be fantastic, I'd love to hear what you all think!

Hehe and sorry for the mini-essay lol

There are rules to relationships - the primary one is knowing where you end and another person begins. It seems that you genuinely like this woman and you may want to ask yourself if you would be ok with her if she never gained another pound. She will sense your disapproval, and it is not your job to control her but to enjoy her. Being so focused on her weight is a sign of your wanting to control her. There is a difference in loving a person for who they are and wanting to project your image upon them of who they are. This conflict happens between all couples and must be negotiated.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:29 PM   #15
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She's not into weight gain, she is into you. Any attempts to steer her into weight gain is purely for your benefit and not hers so I think if weight gain is the be all and all for you you should find a girl who wants to gain whether or not you are around.

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Old 04-21-2009, 02:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism4l View Post
Hello everyone!
As many of you who have read my previous posts may already know, there is a BBW in my life who is absolutely driving me wild .
However, by my experience with her I am constantly thinking about weight issues, and currently the major question that springs to mind is:

What are the moral implications of weight gaining and encouraging? And to what extent should this behavior be limited, if at all?

Some things I noticed about my particular scenario:
-In a relationship I seek not to control my partner, as I do not wish to be controlled myself.
-About a week ago when she gained weight again I told her how it pleased me, and she said that it pleased her to please me.
-She is currently not in a mindset that fully accepts her size, as she is a newcomer to the concept of size acceptance, and thus, she still has an impractical society-based apprehension towards gaining weight.
-I'd love for her to gain weight.
-She is an open minded individual and warming up to size acceptance quite quickly.
-She has no current problems with health or discomfort due to her weight (besides shopping for clothes).
-I am her first boyfriend, and thus, she has only recently realized a general conception of how attractive she can be.
-However, she is also my first girlfriend


In regard to the first three pieces of evidence in my scenario, I'm convinced that encouraging her to gain weight in her current mindset would be 100% against my relationship ethics. However I would like her to gain in the future, and if she lost her societal apprehension then encouraging her would not be against said ethics. Given her open mindedness and her lack of heath and discomfort problems, I don't think that I will have to worry too much about her getting rid of that apprehension. However, we are very new to dating and relationships, and she still yet might not shake that negative influence. If she does not, I might need to sacrifice a freedom of my own, or simply drop the whole matter. This brings me to yet another question:

To what extent do partners in a relationship control each other? And what amount of control is too much? Is there such thing as too little?

Any thoughts or consideration on any of these questions would be fantastic, I'd love to hear what you all think!

Hehe and sorry for the mini-essay lol
I've asked myself that question before, Dism4l. First of all, let me say that I disagree with Russ2d when he said that you shouldn't come here for advice. This is a fat acceptance community, and one of the only places on the web where large numbers of people can talk about real-life weight gain issues without ridicule and scorn. The people here don't have all the answers, but we each have our own perspective, and maybe that will be of some help to you.

I for one completely understand and endorse your concept of “control.” I wouldn't have thought to use that word myself, but, to run with it for a moment, what you're beginning to recognize is that by interacting with other people we have some power to shape their behavior—and they have power over us. In a healthy romantic relationship, partners routinely encourage one another toward positive goals. This is manipulation—control—but of a positive sort. We experience it in all of our relationships with other people, but especially so in a committed romantic relationship. One of the major responsibilities (and delights, and risks) of getting involved with someone is influencing them and being influenced by them in a way that is positive for all individual parties and for the relationship as a whole. Many relationships fail because at least one partner is not up to the challenge.

So, yes, I do think there needs to be “control” in relationships. A lack of it in a relationship would suggest to me that the partners are not truly growing together, but are merely going along together. If you can remember that you are both independent individuals, in control of your respective lives, but are willingly allowing yourselves to influence and be influenced by the other, then I think you will have a much better chance of building something wonderful.

Now, the main issue here is that there may be such a thing as gaining too much weight, and you are worried, basically, about giving your girlfriend a heart attack someday just to get your jollies in the here and now. That's a very understandable concern, and commendable for you to acknowledge it and seek the input of your community.

I think you are already aware that the risks of obesity are vastly inflated by our bigoted, anti-fat society, and that the actual medical literature and economic statistics reveal much more ambiguity than is ever expressed in media reports on the costs of weight gain in health and wealth. Nevertheless, it is at least a possibility that moderate or extreme weight gain is a health risk in some individuals. If nothing else, a our vital organs may simply not last as long if they are used to deal with significantly higher loads.

However, responsible living shouldn't necessarily be about maximizing one's health in the context of maximizing lifespan. We're fooling ourselves by thinking that ten extra years is the ultimate treasure in life. Anyone who wants to pursue that goal is welcome, but equally valid is maximizing one's health in the context of accommodating one's preferred lifestyle...which is where weight gain comes in. If weight gain is someone's desired goal, then to live healthfully for them would mean anticipating and mitigating any health risks that could come with weight gain. There is so much a person can do to prevent and treat weight-related illness.

Because she is dating you, I imagine that your girlfriend will have to confront these questions eventually. Without someone like you in her life, she may never have asked herself “Do I want to gain weight?” or “How much do I want to gain?” But your presence forces the issue, if we assume (and I do) that you are unwilling to completely suppress your attraction to her fat and to her gaining more fat. Thus, the first thing I would suggest to you is that ask yourself if you would be happy with your girlfriend if she never gained another pound, or if she even lost weight. Be honest with yourself, because it's important to know where you stand. Once you know what you are willing to accept and what you are not, then you can tell her how you feel and ask her to consider what she is willing to accept or not accept.

The purpose of such a conversation is not to come away with a definite answer on her part, or on yours for that matter. Indeed, that would be counterproductive and foolish. Honestly, neither of you know what you're doing. It's your first relationship, and a time to be learning. The purpose of having this conversation is not only to get her thinking about this stuff, but to get you thinking about it too, in the same room with the real-life, flesh-and-blood woman whom you would potentially be helping to fatten. It is enough, at first, merely to have put the issue out there for the two of you to consider together in the months ahead. Because it is important to you, it is significant to the relationship that your preferences and needs be communicated. Just don't expect answers immediately. Fortunately, weight gain happens slowly enough to give people some time to notice the changes in their bodies. Your girlfriend may well be amenable to gaining some more weight, modestly, and then reevaluating her attitude. You too can reevaluate as you go along. It may be that in your fantasies she always weighs 600 pounds, but that in real life 200 pounds turns out to be plenty sexy. If that's so, then perhaps you can spare her the extra 400 pounds with no loss to either of you.

It isn't likely that she will be amenable to gaining extreme amounts of weight. Few people are. But her agreeing to a smaller gain is much more plausible, especially if she understands that it will: A) please you; B) not constitute an open-ended commitment on her part. Rather than trying to force her or even ask her to gain weight, simply make known your preferences and let her decide for herself how she wants to proceed. Do not subvert her will. Do not try to pressure her. It's her body, and her choice. If she isn't amenable to the gain, and you need her to gain, then the relationship is a fling and should not last longer than a notch or two on her belt. Don't assume that time or campaigning will change her mind. Don't look at the person she is and see only the person you want her to be.

On the other hand, if you can live happily without your girlfriend gaining more weight, then that's perfectly valid too. Be sure to point that out, if it's the case. But, from the way you wrote your posts, I'm just guessing that you would be much better off with a woman who wants to go up more than just a notch on her belt. If so, then you need to hold out for such a person who would do it willingly. The reason I say not to try and persuade your current girlfriend if she isn't inherently receptive to the idea, is because that would be a terrible abuse of her of her trust in you. If you need your partner to gain, then hold out for someone who will do it with gladness, without resentment, and in full knowledge of the theoretical risks.

Many people here feel otherwise, but I think sexual preferences are what they are, and it's okay to admit your tastes. As long as both parties are well-informed and consenting, I say go for it. Go for the stars. If you want a really huge partner, then go find someone who can understand what that will entail and wants to do it anyway. There are a few out there. You may be in the wilderness for a long time, but if you prefer to wait it out rather than settle for a more modest gain in a partner, then it is the right choice to make.

Always remember that your partner's weight gain is ultimately her choice, not yours, and the only supreme power you have is to stay in the relationship or not. But if you would leave someone for not gaining enough weight, then don't get involved with them to begin with. Don't do that to another person, leaving her with a broken heart and hundreds of extra pounds of fat on her body—pounds which she may have put there only because you wanted it. Hold out for the right person.
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