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Old 04-11-2009, 06:17 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SocialbFly View Post
i dont know if we are really supposed to chime in or not, but i love this thread, but let me say, is this liking someone that you like any different than someone who wants a thin wife, a this or that wife or partner...

if i want someone with a certain body type am i wrong to go after it? what if it means dieting for them, what if it means surgery for them, what if it means lipo or implants or injections for them, or drugs or whatever...

there are so many things to feel guilty for in this world, surely liking and CARING for someone shouldnt be one of them.

there are whole other examples but i am on a time crunch before work, but i cant help but wonder, how many feel guilty for wanting a size 5 on their arm, when it takes that person a hell of a lot of work to stay there...is it any harder having a size 50?
My thoughts exactly, Di. As long as there isn't coercion involved, I can't see where it's wrong to love and enjoy a person's body, no matter what the size. I don't mean to diminish the very earnestly expressed feelings of anyone here, and I do actually understand the source of the conflict, but I do think that it's misplaced. We can no more control what we're attracted to than we can what we aren't.

Many women are unhappy about their bodies no matter what size they are. It took me years, a lot of soul-searching, many changes (some of them painful and life-altering), to get to a point of acceptance with myself. I always knew that my husband loved me for who and what I am/was. I wish that would have been enough for me. The reality is, it never is. I had to fix what was wrong with me, myself.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:30 PM   #52
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Hi Dianna,

just a quick note on 'chiming in' from BBWS/BHMS/Non-FAs, these are the forum rules (taken from the sticky)

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On the Participation of Non FA/FFAs…

The focus of this forum is the discussion of FA/FFA issues, but this in no way precludes participation by interested non-FAs/FFA. The forum is open for all to view and positive or supportive comments from non-FAs are welcomed. However, as the forum is a protected space for FA/FFAs, any negative, disruptive or belittling posts will be removed or moderated.
Your post is fine btw (and also a thought provoking comparison)




As a side note to all FA/FFA Board users...

For all others who are wondering about the issue (as the sticky says), this is a protected space and Non-FA input will be moderated if it deviates into areas of off-topic, non-FA discussion, FA-bashing or similar. FA forum users are invited to report any posts (click on the red triangle under a poster's avatar) that they feel violate these rules to the mods (Observer, Missaf and James).
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Old 04-12-2009, 05:34 AM   #53
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Thank you for clarifying, as i havent had a chance to read up on the board yet, but am very glad it is here.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:04 AM   #54
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As James noted earlier, every FA has to deal with this issue at some point in their walk -. Even though for many of us we start out with a guilt free natural attraction to larger rather than thinner people (I recall mine being as early as the fourth grade), society interferes with our instincts.

We’re told by religion that gluttony is one of the “seven deadly sins” (even though the Bible says no such thing). We’re told by doctors and insurance companies that we’re at greater risk (with no allowance for risk management or acknowledgement that there is risk in everything). We’re told by the media that what we like is not really attractive (even though we frequently see happy fat folk with partners in counterpoint to this). We’re told by entertainers that what we enjoy is in fact fair game for jokes and insults. Is it any wonder that our relatives and peers sometimes join in the fat phobic chorus? And that we doubt ourselves?

Any FA, even the most open and out of the closet, has had to deal with second guesses about their feelings. Never mind that we are what we are, could we be just as wrong as a serial killer or sociopath? Before buzz words like “enabler” and “control” were part of the common vocabulary I was tormented by self-doubts that belied my own embracing of what we now term “size acceptance.” It was serious enough that I sought counsel of a minister I respected.

Fortunately he had more wisdom and experience than the penchant of some for judgmental legalism. He heard me out patiently and didn’t make me feel that I was a pervert or sinner. He did, however, give me some perspective. After pointing out (as most Christians should know) that Jesus was accused of being a glutton and never let anyone go away from His table hungry, he asked me who created the Manatee and hippopotamus?

Love, he noted, isn’t about size, its much larger than that. God loves all his creatures, including every human – and there are enough fat Christians with plenty of His holy spirit (as well as thin ones) that we should be able to accept this and follow His example.

Then he zeroed in on my feelings. He noted that I was going to be attracted to whomever I was attracted to – and that was a natural thing that neither he or anyone else could or should try to control. The Bible teaching is faithfulness and dedication – doing 100% whatever you set your hand to do. If a person likes a certain size person, whether its tall, fat, thin, or short its their business – but marriage should be a lifetime commitment at any size.

He did note that in his experience heavier women were larger for a variety of reasons – and I should be careful. Some just come cultures and families that are larger, while the size of others can reflect eating problems and deeper issues. Certainly eating an excess of certain foods will impact anyone’s health.– but that’s not usually the big problem. Even the most loving spouse can’t change a person’s links to the past or attitude towards their bodies – that takes desire and professional help. But, he reassured me, there was nothing wrong with me for admitting that I simply liked a certain physical type. In fact, the right larger girl would probably be very thankful for it.

After that counseling session – which I would myself repeat with other FAs myself in the years ahead, I never again felt guilty about liking larger women. But it’s a stage every FA has to face and pass through. For me it was over forty years ago - but its still the case today.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #55
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Regarding health/weight conundrum:

I weigh in the 380-400 range, and I am 5'8. I take a size 30 pants/26 to 28 top for reference. My boyfriend is 5'11, 180 pounds. 32 32 pants again, for reference. To look at us, I'm sure many assume that I would be the one with poorer health. He has Tendonitis, flat feet and Diabetes. I have nothing, and the only prescription drug (aside from birth control) I have taken for a condition in my life was Allegra for allergies I had as a child. I do have illness-induced Asthma, but that is completely unrelated to weight-- I developed it along with my allergies as a child. It only affects me when I have severe respiratory bugs.

My point is that, yes, there may be an increased rate of ailments for those who weigh more. It may or may not affect the one you are dating, though. Furthermore, everyone has ailments, exacerbated or not by weight. For those of you feeling guilty: are you not afflicted with something? Do you want your SO to feel guilty for dating you, in spite of your (insert condition here)? My intent is not to be mean, but simply to make you think about it.

My heart really does go out to you-- I don't want you to feel guilty, though. For me, guilt is dangerously close to pity, and I would be upset if I found that my SO felt guilt for being attracted to me. My life is good, and I like to be active (and am). I do not feel held back by my weight, and I take whatever measures necessary to maximize my health and activities. Others have said this, as well. If we don't feel guilty for our fatness, you shouldn't, either!

Of course, your results may vary if you are with someone who has severely disordered eating/emotions/self image.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:02 PM   #56
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Default Not guilty about preference.

I feel the guilt of the FA but never for my preference.

I adore fat women period. The guilt that I sense is related not to her health but to her self image and self esteem and my role in a relationship to be supportive when what she wants doesnt align with what I desire. I am not sure guilt is the right word but uncomfortable and in certain instances unsupportive.

I have always seen part of my job in a relationship is to help make sure she feels good about herself. I also have this need from her. To me it's a healthy aspect and a needed one in an equal parnership.

In two of my three lovelives I have been met with the catch 22 senario where she believes that no matter what I tell her I will leave if she loses weight.

If she wants to lose weight and I tell her to go ahead and do what she feels she needs to I feel it again because I don't feel that I can be supportive as a partner and maintain my desires. IE: I dont want her to lose weight I find her attractive as is. If I tell her that she looks beautiful and doesn't need to lose weight, its an entirely different can of worms.

Its not about her health, but certain situations. Its about the ego,and self esteem of my partner and my job as an equal partner in the relationship, and a ragged edge to ride.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:12 PM   #57
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*excellent ideas*

Interesting point.
There are actually quite a few things quite wrong with my body (nothing obvious to the naked eye, which was kind of your point), and chances are that right from the start, any SO I would be with would in fact be "healthier" than I am.

And thinking about the fine line between guilt and pity also seems important. Most people with a healthy amount of pride hate pity (pretty sure I do), and I wouldn't want to unintentionally force that on someone by way of feeling guilty for him/her.

This topic already has so many layers... it's amazing.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:15 PM   #58
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people with a healthy amount of pride
Me. Possibly too much pride. Haha.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:52 PM   #59
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I've never felt 'guilt' or any of its synonyms for being attracted to fat guys. However, there are a lot of places where I do feel guilty hardcore for some of the aspects of fat guys I am attracted to. Like when I was in high school and a guy and I went to an amusement park with a bunch of our friends, and he was too big for a couple of the rides. I thought it was so hot, but at the same time I felt really bad for being turned on by something he was obviously mortified by. I also have a guy friend now who has been trying to loose weight all year, and he's had quite a bit of success. However, he's gained some back in the past month, and I know he's pretty depressed/upset about it. I think he looks dead sexy these days, but I also feel like a bad friend for liking how he looks now when he was a lot more confident and secure when he was thinner. So these things, yes, I feel ten kinds of guilt over. But guilt over being attracted to fat guys? Not so much.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:08 AM   #60
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This thread has been so, so helpful. It's an issue I happen to be having a real hard time with.

So, looking for advice,

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnMarie View Post
I realize they may see that issue as a physical defect caused by my fat. In that line of thinking, they like fat, fat caused pain, pain is bad. They like fat, fat is bad. Wow, we're right back where we started with society.
The thing is, that IS pretty much my line of thinking. If you could outline where I'm wrong, it would be awesome.

Also
It has struck me that when I see pictures from the past or something, pictures of when a woman was smaller, I'm just not as into them. It drives me insane! I don't want to be less turned on! I just can't help it though. It scares me and makes me feel terrible. If I were all in on a partner, I can't see it being a deal breaker, or even a major issue, in the big scheme of things on my end. I mean, I accepted my lot in terms of the difficulties my orientation poses a long time ago when it comes to being satisfied physically (which is the reason I'm open to dating skinny girls). The bottom line is, though, that I would be less attracted to a BBW if they lost alot of weight and I worry about how that would make my potential partner feel. How do others deal with this?

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Old 04-13-2009, 01:20 AM   #61
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It drives me insane! I don't want to be less turned on! I just can't help it though. It scares me and makes me feel terrible. If I were all in on a partner, I can't see it being a deal breaker, or even a major issue, in the big scheme of things on my end. I mean, I accepted my lot in terms of the difficulties my orientation poses a long time ago when it comes to being satisfied physically (which is the reason I'm open to dating skinny girls). The bottom line is, though, that I would be less attracted to a BBW if they lost alot of weight and I worry about how that would make my potential partner feel. How do others deal with this?
You know what Ben, I used to have a problem with this issue too, but this is one that even I was able to sort out pretty easily. We are actually no different from anyone on this issue. Every non-FA takes the risk that their partner will GAIN weight in a relationship and that they will be less attractive to them. Many non-FAs stay with partners who become far heavier than they find attractive. Yet in the context of their individual relationships they make it work. I don't know whether they feel guilty for finding their partner less attractive, I'm sure it's a mixed bag. I don't know, that's just how I see it. Hope it helps some.

Actually since all the other members of this board are non-FAs, they could actually answer for us whether or not they feel guilty for finding a partner who has gained weight less attractive.
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:24 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tooz View Post
Regarding health/weight conundrum:

I weigh in the 380-400 range, and I am 5'8. I take a size 30 pants/26 to 28 top for reference. My boyfriend is 5'11, 180 pounds. 32 32 pants again, for reference. To look at us, I'm sure many assume that I would be the one with poorer health. He has Tendonitis, flat feet and Diabetes. I have nothing, and the only prescription drug (aside from birth control) I have taken for a condition in my life was Allegra for allergies I had as a child. I do have illness-induced Asthma, but that is completely unrelated to weight-- I developed it along with my allergies as a child. It only affects me when I have severe respiratory bugs.

My point is that, yes, there may be an increased rate of ailments for those who weigh more. It may or may not affect the one you are dating, though. Furthermore, everyone has ailments, exacerbated or not by weight. For those of you feeling guilty: are you not afflicted with something? Do you want your SO to feel guilty for dating you, in spite of your (insert condition here)? My intent is not to be mean, but simply to make you think about it.

My heart really does go out to you-- I don't want you to feel guilty, though. For me, guilt is dangerously close to pity, and I would be upset if I found that my SO felt guilt for being attracted to me. My life is good, and I like to be active (and am). I do not feel held back by my weight, and I take whatever measures necessary to maximize my health and activities. Others have said this, as well. If we don't feel guilty for our fatness, you shouldn't, either!

Of course, your results may vary if you are with someone who has severely disordered eating/emotions/self image.

I think being in contact with big healthy people like Tooz is why i dont have any guilt towards being a ffa. Plus being a bbw and being at my body's maxium weight (ex was a feeder) of 218, i realize that everyone's body is different. My healthiest is around 130 but someone with the exact same height (5'6') but with a different body type could be good at twice that size. Basically, i think its cool to see big healthy MOFO's, and I'm glad to be with someone who appreciates me at whatever size is healthiest for me because thats what I want for him and for everyone to be at.
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:06 AM   #63
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I think being in contact with big healthy people like Tooz is why i dont have any guilt towards being a ffa. Plus being a bbw and being at my body's maxium weight (ex was a feeder) of 218, i realize that everyone's body is different. My healthiest is around 130 but someone with the exact same height (5'6') but with a different body type could be good at twice that size. Basically, i think its cool to see big healthy MOFO's, and I'm glad to be with someone who appreciates me at whatever size is healthiest for me because thats what I want for him and for everyone to be at.
Well that's cause the FA in me Loves the mmmmmmm curves yeah that's it....and the BHM in me loves the size contrast if she's a size 3 again. As to appreciating her well, she could be any size or color; blue, green, even aqua-marine and I would still appreciate this woman. Yeah, she's just that cool.
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:31 AM   #64
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:57 AM   #65
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Guilt? I think the question should really be, do you feel guilt because other people want you to feel guilt or is it genuine guilt that comes from within?

For me, that was true about 10 years ago (guilt because of others) when I hung out with friends who typically dated the thinner kind of girl. Even then I didn't feel the need to date a particular "type" of girl to fit in with the crowd, I just dated who I dated and if anybody had anything to say about it I just made it known to them that their opinions are about as important to me as a warm bucket of hamster vomit. Of course, the "peer pressure" doesn't go away after that.

I guess for me personally, in the physical attraction sense anyway, I prefer BBWs and SSBBWs but that doesn't mean I'm 'never' attracted to thinner women. IMO you can't choose who you're attracted to, either you are attracted to them or you aren't! It makes no sense to beat yourself up over it for the sake of other people.

But if it really is your own guilt and not projections of others then you (and others that feel that way) have a lot to think about.


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You knew it was coming, and it might as well be started by the dude who says unpopular shit anyway.

So, yeah. I think we all know what I mean. How do you deal with it? Do you even feel it?

Me, personally, it's oftentimes the kind of cognitive dissonance that I frown upon in *every* other aspect of my life. I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.

And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:38 AM   #66
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Guilt? I think the question should really be, do you feel guilt because other people want you to feel guilt or is it genuine guilt that comes from within?

For me, that was true about 10 years ago (guilt because of others) when I hung out with friends who typically dated the thinner kind of girl. Even then I didn't feel the need to date a particular "type" of girl to fit in with the crowd, I just dated who I dated and if anybody had anything to say about it I just made it known to them that their opinions are about as important to me as a warm bucket of hamster vomit. Of course, the "peer pressure" doesn't go away after that.

I guess for me personally, in the physical attraction sense anyway, I prefer BBWs and SSBBWs but that doesn't mean I'm 'never' attracted to thinner women. IMO you can't choose who you're attracted to, either you are attracted to them or you aren't! It makes no sense to beat yourself up over it for the sake of other people.

But if it really is your own guilt and not projections of others then you (and others that feel that way) have a lot to think about.
Genuine guilt because I've had firsthand experience both with being "fat" and from seeing loved ones struggle with their weight.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:20 AM   #67
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I havn't read every post here yet but am working through them. In many ways, your words are making me feel better. Not that your unhappiness or guilt makes me feel happy..more that its nice to know i'm not alone in these feelings. I think, as i have had a longer relationship with a really understanding partner, my guilt feelings are a bit less. GD has said she would be big with or without me.. A while ago i wrote a post 'Being an Fa made me cry last night' and i guess that pretty much sums up my feelings of Fa guilt.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...+night+mergirl

I'm sure i will have more to add to this discussion as i read through. So far, thank you to everyone who has shared their feelings about this, i know its not easy but it really helps a lot of people feel a bit better to hear they are not alone with their feelings.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:15 AM   #68
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My guilt strings are wound pretty tight to begin with. Give me a few minutes and a couple of drinks and I can find ways to blame myself for things that happened before I was even born. That said I don't find myself struggling a lot with guilt in the abstract. Worrying about hypotheticals that may or may not occur can paralyze you. Nobody knows how many days we’re given or whether anything can be done to change that number.

My guilt is more in the here and now. Having been married to or in relationship with SSBBW most of my life I find it's the day to day issues that trouble me. When her feet or legs are painfully swollen, her breathing is labored, she's exhausted, chafed, just generally uncomfortable or any one of a hundred other things I question myself. Is bringing her food she asks for and enjoys an irresponsible indulgence? Does giving her the freedom not to work make her dangerously sedentary? What about having a housekeeper? I am neither a feeder nor an encourager. I support my partner's healthy eating and exercise habits any way I can without nagging or pushing. So how accountable am I that she is miserable? More than I can accept, I’m afraid.

This pattern has repeated itself to some degree in almost every relationship I've ever been in. It certainly contributed, although it was definitely not the only factor, to the failure of my last marriage. I know it’s a consideration in my decision to stay out of romantic relationships. I want to make someone happy but acting on that intention ultimately makes her more unhappy. It’s like a Catch-22 from hell.

I was reluctant to share this out of concern that it might make anyone on either side of this type of situation self-conscious or uncomfortable. That's just another example of the “Protector” mode I seem to always fall into I suppose? I feel compelled to defend someone I care for from harm or unhappiness. What happens though when you can't provide that protection, when you can't offer the support that's needed? Anger, frustration, despair is the short answer; all manifestations of guilt, at least for me.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
...........snipped..............

We’re told by religion that gluttony is one of the “seven deadly sins” (even though the Bible says no such thing)............snipped.........

Love, he noted, isn’t about size, its much larger than that. God loves all his creatures, including every human – and there are enough fat Christians with plenty of His holy spirit (as well as thin ones) that we should be able to accept this and follow His example.
It was the writings of one intelligent, witty, funny, and genuinely
compassionate, fat, spirit-filled Christian that brought me to the
place where I could live a spirit-filled Christian life. Yes, God loves
fat people, too! It is completely possible for a fat person to be a
fully functional, spirit-filled Christian! The windows of Heaven
continue to open and pour blessing on me that I can hardly
contain. Praise God, He is so good!!!
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:27 AM   #70
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Fair enough. Like I said, guilt that comes from within is something that needs to be reflected on and dealt with... or at least managed enough that it doesn't impair the rest of your life.

As I said, that guilt was there for me 10 years ago and I kept telling it to "f#@k off" but that guilt wouldn't listen and so after travelling through cities in Australia and other parts of the world going touring, partying, dating, working, exploring in the last 10 years, the guilt eventually became irrelevant because I had other things to deal with (both pleasant and unpleasant).

My point is, if it is such an issue perhaps you need some time alone to work on it. You don't have to travel around like I did... unless it's something you've really been itching to do.

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Genuine guilt because I've had firsthand experience both with being "fat" and from seeing loved ones struggle with their weight.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:37 PM   #71
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There are no guarantees in life. You could be thin, workout and drop dead of a heart attack. There is no death proof lifestyle. We should support people who have the courage to live their choices and not worry that they will have an extra couple of years by not being fat.
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God, I love this forum. This is such an important topic.

From a superfatty's point of view, the subject of FA guilt is sort of the ultimate catch-22. I mean, who doesn't want a partner who possesses the emotional sensitivity to worry about this kind of stuff? I understand, absolutely, where the guilt comes from. Without even touching the topic of how fat does - or doesn't - affect health, the simple fact is that life as a fat person is just really effing hard, physically and emotionally. You can love and respect your body and be a confident, sexual, well-adjusted fat person, but some days are still just awful and you feel like saying, "okay, screw this, I hate being fat." That's just how it goes. So I understand the guilt that comes from desiring something that can be a hardship to the person carrying it, I do. And like I said, I absolutely appreciate a partner who is caring enough to think about it, and worry about it. But on the other hand, the thought of being the source of guilt for my (theoretical) partner makes me absolutely cringe. The last thing I want is for someone to feel badly for finding my fat body sexy, you know? I don't feel guilty about being fat, so why should you feel guilty about liking my fat?

So I don't know. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, but I'm not sure where it lies. I will say that while it's certainly worthy of consideration and thought, obsessing about it is likely to drive you and your fat partner crazy. I also think that while of course, there are some beautiful women out there who've gained on purpose, most of us probably haven't, so keep in mind that we were probably fat for a long time before we knew you and probably will be fat for a long time, so there's not much of a point in worrying too much about the effect or morality of your preference for fat people and how it affects us. It just.... is.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:25 PM   #72
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Exactly! Life and death are a dual pair, you can't have one without the other.

So live how you want to live. I personally think it's better to die knowing that you've done (and/or tried) everything you wanted to do than lie in your death bed saying "I wish I could have done this and I wish I could have done that"


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There are no guarantees in life. You could be thin, workout and drop dead of a heart attack. There is no death proof lifestyle. We should support people who have the courage to live their choices and not worry that they will have an extra couple of years by not being fat.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:57 AM   #73
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A woman who is fat and loves her body takes responsiblity for her body. No FA can make a woman fat who does not want to be fat. The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.


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Originally Posted by superodalisque View Post
i think to avoid feeling guilty FAs have to be careful not to internalize the blame some women would like to lay on them. some hate thier fat and really can't see how you'd love it. a lot of people are very good at hiding the fact or its subconscious with them. a BBWs issue with food is her issue. some people who do have a food addiction actively seek out an enabler and then blame them for the result. thats why for your own mental health its a good idea to take your time and find a woman who truly likes her weight and the rest of life as well. you have to be careful about choosing someone who does not like it and blames her weight and you for everything going wrong in her life. you can't make a woman love it. its her thing. she shouldn't make you responsible for her entire life. if she puts you in that position its probably not really about you at all. she just needs someone to set up for the blame game. a woman has a choice in everything that she does. a grown woman takes responsibility for that. be careful not to let people guilt you out just for loving and desiring them as they are. your right, there is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:17 AM   #74
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Quote:
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The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.
In a black and white sense I agree with you - but most women, and in fact most people, are 'works in progress' and lots of us came to love our bodies one part at a time. The journey is ongoing, and for most of us involves a few backward steps as well as some forward ones too - just as it does for FAs dealing with their issues relating to guilt etc.

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Old 04-16-2009, 06:56 AM   #75
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Default Responsibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by katherine22 View Post
A woman who is fat and loves her body takes responsibility for her body. No FA can make a woman fat who does not want to be fat. The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.
Great post! Regardless of whether a person loves or hates being fat,
the rewards from responsibly managing one's body are amazing!
Being mindful of good nutrition, using medications properly,
properly managing conditions (diabetes, for example), and being
active, can give a fat person substantially better quality of life.
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Fat is like grass, it'll never go away and there's a hell
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Fat is only ugly to those who hate.

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