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Old 04-11-2009, 05:36 PM   #1
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Default Doing Away With the Extra F?

Does the collective noun for "people wot are attracted to fat people..." need to be gender-specific? At the moment there are FFAs and FAs...

The advent of this board has begun to underline the commonalities that I'd always assumed... which raises the following questions?

To the "FFAs", is the first "F" something that you; a) think is an important part of a defining 'label'? and b) would like to keep/remove?
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:57 PM   #2
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I too have always seen more commonalities than differences amongst FAs and FFAs. And since we FFAs come in both the heterosexual and homosexual variety, there are many female fat admirers loving BBW and sharing even more common experiences with their male counterparts. For me, personally, I think of us all as FAs. I am not even consistent in whether or not I use the term FFA in any given post.

Having said that, in terms of labels on the website itself, I think either having the term FFA used or, if you dropped it and called this the FA forum, I would advise that it read something like "The FA forum - for male and female fat admirers." The only reason I feel this way is that when I first arrived at Dimensions, I wasn't certain at first where we all fit in. Eventually, that answer for me became everywhere on the boards, but I was tentative to post when I saw a thread that referred to "FAs" because the BHM/FFA board made me think that FFA was the term for us and when I didn't see it, it took a while to understand that female FAs' input was welcome as well. Since this board in particular is likely to be a first stop resource for newbies, I think the females need it made clear to them that this is for them as well.

But in terms of how I feel about myself and the label, to me they are interchangeable. I don't mind if I get called an FFA or an FA, but in my head I consider myself an FA because I think of all of us male and female fat admirers as a group of people with shared concerns and issues.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by James View Post
Does the collective noun for "people wot are attracted to fat people..." need to be gender-specific? At the moment there are FFAs and FAs...

The advent of this board has begun to underline the commonalities that I'd always assumed... which raises the following questions?

To the "FFAs", is the first "F" something that you; a) think is an important part of a defining 'label'? and b) would like to keep/remove?
That's an interesting point you brought up, thank you. I'd never even thought much of it...

I personally don't mind the term FFA as it states, hey I'm a girl....But at the same time the term FA can be a very broad spectrum...and is very vague if you look on it from the outside.

I guess gender specific is fine with me...but if we are FFA's it would be alot less confusing to refer to men as MFA's....

But then if we get into that I think we'll then make another subset of terms on specific sexuality, and them from that race, and then so on and so forth....

So for the sake of making everything alot less complicated...I like it as is :P
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Old 04-11-2009, 07:12 PM   #4
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Interesting topic - let's talk history.

Those of us who have been involved with SA (size acceptance) issues before BBW, NAAFA, and all the other acronyms know that both genders have common issues. BHM came into usage as a male specific term simply because the copyrighted term BBW was already in use as a magazine name and slogan (guess who today owns the copyright?). BBP (Big Beautiful People) could have covered both, but by historic accident that didn't happen.

FA/FFA has a similar history. I know that many, including our Webmaster and apparently Dr. Marshall, see FA as being universally inclusive. I know that many others, myself included, have used it as pertaining to men without considering women, thus leading to the term FFA to give recognition to the latter. But its a differentiation more for political correctness and inclusion than anything else. Some even object to it on grounds that it gets confused with the Future Farmers of America.

The fact is that every FA related issue I can think of applies to both men and women. There is no real difference between MFAs and FFAs that I am aware of other than gender. The only controversy I know of is that some think that technically we aren't admiring fat but size, and we should therefore possibly be called SA's instead. But that's another nuance.

My own opinion as an FA/SA is that I really don't care. The point is that we know we have a common bond. Therefore, if the FFAs and MFAs don't mind sharing the FA label, then so be it. If the ladies prefer having a special set of letters that's fine too. The point is that we now have a place to share and help one another.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:06 PM   #5
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I am a femme lesbian FA.

I have a girly avatar and I think my online persona is feminine enough but I still get mistaken for a male online when I talk about beautiful women and ex-girlfriends, especially in a predominantly hetero community. The extra F is useful so straight women don't end up accidentally flirting with me, but I don't like how it implies that I am interested in BHM when I am not attracted to men at all. The problem doesn't lie with the label itself, but with the assumption that everyone is straight.

I keep the extra F for the convenience, but I don't mind either way. I can relate to male and female FAs of any orientation.
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:15 AM   #6
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As Observer pointed out, all of these terms have a lot of history. When I started the FA-SIG in 1984, there was a lot of opposition when I opened it to both genders. I did that because a) I felt that there was a need for discussion between FAs and the fat people we admire, and b) that the attraction to fatness and size transcended genders. Against that stood the fact that there are some very real differences between the genders.

I always included female FAs, though in my mind I differentiated between "real" FAs who were drawn to fat partners as I was, and "solidarity" FAs who were FAs in the same way John F. Kennedy was a Berliner. I encouraged submissions that presented the female point of view and, for a while, run the Female FA column in Dimensions magazine. I had corresponded with its author, and concluded that she definitely faced the same issues and mysteries that delight and confound male FAs.

Yet, I do want to get away from gender labels. I don't want to perpetuate the woman driver, lady doctor, female executive kind of thing, even if it comes at the expense of wondering if Pat or Alex is a girl or a boy.
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Does the collective noun for "people wot are attracted to fat people..." need to be gender-specific? At the moment there are FFAs and FAs...

The advent of this board has begun to underline the commonalities that I'd always assumed... which raises the following questions?

To the "FFAs", is the first "F" something that you; a) think is an important part of a defining 'label'? and b) would like to keep/remove?
I believe that for the sake of newbies that are barely understanding that there is a commonality amongst FAs and FA issues, much less that there are others here that share that bond and issues that create it, that the additional F would draw their attention as FFA is as widely acknowledged as FA is.

If I were female and wandered into the dimensions forums and didn't see the FFA tag I would wonder if it was a boys club board or whether or not I was allowed to play in the same sandbox or need to move on to another board.

I hate to play the game of political correctness and since we can't please all people all the time, I see no reason to change anything. In my mind it would only imply exclusiveness rather than including those who may not realize yet that we ARE all similar in our preferences and issues regardless of gender.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:55 AM   #8
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For me, it's as simple as this:

I'm a female FA and I don't want to put my picture in my avatar. Even with a name like "Melian," a lot of people still think I'm a guy. So I'm cool with the "FFA" acronym, because it lets people know that I'm a female.

In real life, I don't use any of these acronyms, so they really don't matter much beyond these boards.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:54 AM   #9
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i agree that the f should be destroyed, or at least append an m to ours. but i'd also scrap the term fa entirely, the syllables effay out loud sounds wretched. i say chubby chaser whenever possible, thank god for alliteration.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by exile in thighville View Post
i agree that the f should be destroyed, or at least append an m to ours. but i'd also scrap the term fa entirely, the syllables effay out loud sounds wretched. i say chubby chaser whenever possible, thank god for alliteration.
I agree that "FA" was never a good term, but you probably know that "chubby chaser" has been used for decades by gay FAs.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cors View Post
I am a femme lesbian FA.

I have a girly avatar and I think my online persona is feminine enough but I still get mistaken for a male online when I talk about beautiful women and ex-girlfriends, especially in a predominantly hetero community. The extra F is useful so straight women don't end up accidentally flirting with me, but I don't like how it implies that I am interested in BHM when I am not attracted to men at all. The problem doesn't lie with the label itself, but with the assumption that everyone is straight.

I keep the extra F for the convenience, but I don't mind either way. I can relate to male and female FAs of any orientation.
When I first came to the DIMS boards I knew what a FA was but had not heard of the term FFA before, but quickly discovered it meant ' a woman who is into BHM' ....so like Cors I thought that that would not fit me as a girly gay girl who is attracted to women and I would more properly be a FA ?? Very confusing in our situation to apply these labels.....so which one should I plump for ??
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:04 PM   #12
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Exclamation do away with it!

from my perspective, what needs to be taken into consideration with this whole"F" controversy, is looking at the evolution of the Dims community. Conrad, as a straight fat lovin man, created Dimensions as a common ground / haven for other men or "FAs" who shared his interest.

knowing what i know of Conrad, was his intent to exclude BHMs, Female FAs, the GLBTQs??? of course not!

what needs to be understood is that the evolution of the internet coupled with the new and extremely user-friendly Dims Forum format has caused a Dims population explosion! the community has grown exponentially - bringing with it the diverse, rich and complex body of Dims members.

for example, back in 2006, the original discussion board had only 8 forums - Main, Lounge, Weight, Paysite, BHM, Foodie, Clothing/Fashion, WLS Controversy. within the 3 years of the new format being introduced, the discussion board has DOUBLED with the addition of: Hyde Park, SSBBW, FA Forum, GLBTQ, Chit Chat, Health, Marketplace. the number of members has quintupled from a mere 6,000 and change to 31,148 as of 6:50pm today- that that does not even take into consideration the lurkers who visit as guests on a regular basis.

whilst Dimensions has always been welcoming to fatties and fattie lovers from all walks of life,
no longer is Dimensions outwardly just a place for fat women and their male admirers. the evidence of this lies within the creation of the BHM, FA and GLBTQ boards...

this fatcentric community is dynamic and growing...

from my standpoint as a diversity specialist, i feel strongly that Dimensions should do away with the term "FFA"... even Conrad himself states "
... I do want to get away from gender labels. I don't want to perpetuate the woman driver, lady doctor, female executive kind of thing..."

If individual female FAs wish to identify as 'FFAs' - there is nothing wrong with that. Every individual has the right to identify as they see fit.


The accepted universal term at Dimensions for an individual - male or female -who is attracted to a fat partner should be Fat Admirer - FA.


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Old 04-12-2009, 04:54 PM   #13
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The Mayor of Fatopia is correct with one cavaet. The Forums did not begin in 2006 with eight forums but in 2005 with four (Main, Weight, Paysite, and Library). I know because Ann Marie and I were there at the inception as the original two mods - and growth was indeed exponential.
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Old 04-12-2009, 05:02 PM   #14
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The Mayor of Fatopia is correct with one cavaet. The Forums did not begin in 2006 with eight forums but in 2005 with four (Main, Weight, Paysite, and Library). I know because Ann Marie and I were there at the inception as the original two mods - and growth was indeed exponential.
thank you for the correction! i joined in late March 2006 with the 8 forums... i was indeed aware that the new board came on the scene on October? November 2005.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:33 PM   #15
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To me, the term "FFA" is like saying "lesbian" rather than "homosexual".

If you say merely "homosexual" it is denotative of "human with a sexual orientation towards the same gender". Beyond that, the terms "gay" and "lesbian" break down the term "homosexual" by gender.

I see nothing wrong with it if somebody chooses (especially online) to self ascribe using gender. If a poster here or elsewhere believes gender is not important, s/he may use a gender neutral username. In real life, one may or may not self ascribe as male or female, or may self ascribe and present as transgendered.

I absolutely do not see it as the same thing as 'lady doctor' since the term is used regarding sexuality and sexual orientation. A "doctor" is a medical professional with certain education and training who performs a job so using gender makes less sense than it does in a sexual context.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:53 PM   #16
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Yeah, I can't stand it either, but chubby chaser doesn't work with me either, because of the gay connotations.

I'd just go with Jiggle-o and Jigglette

However, ICP might be pissed off, so maybe not so wise.

I just go with I like fat girls, since it's not at all confusing and yeah, I just like something straight forward, obviously "I like fat chicks" doesn't roll off the tongue, but in a world with too many abbreviations already, it'd be nice to have one that could just be one word.

Straight, heterosexual, gay, homosexual, lesbian .. etc .. easy to remember, but we got nothing.

OH! and another thought, while FA may be prevalent in the online community, it's nothing to anyone beyond that, so, if the whole preference ever went mainstream, there is still time to come up with something better!

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Old 04-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Webmaster View Post
I agree that "FA" was never a good term, but you probably know that "chubby chaser" has been used for decades by gay FAs.
i do know this and i'm fine with it; it's only a mistake when googling. people outside of the community already label us with this much cuter misnomer anyway and i feel like a doofus explaining how much cooler the gay lexicon is.

guy: "i'm an fa"
dr. keith: "i'm an md"
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:42 AM   #18
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Exactly. When I'm out in the "real world"--you know, that place where people have faces and voices and aren't just avatars--"chubby chaser" is universally understood even though I'm a hetero female, precisely because I'm clearly a hetero female. And I'm not concerned with people mistaking me for a gay man online, because gay people are so much cooler than straight people. It's always cooler to be a minority.

P.S. Nice icon. Roast Beef is my homeslice.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:21 AM   #19
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I always say 'i'm actually an Fa' (When pushed) Or my girlfriend will say 'Lisa is an Fa'. Never i'm an FFA. I think the extra 'F' has been a convenience thing for the boards..Though, i suppose you could just have 'the Bhm boards' and those who loved Bhms would go there.. Then you would just have to learn who was gay and straight i guess.
To be honest i'm not all that comfortable with the term 'fa' .. when people ask me 'oh whats that'.. i'm like.. "oh. arm..erm.. well Fat admirer.. but i dont really like that term". Whereas if i say "I love/prefer Fat women" It just totally rolls of my tounge without any hesitation or cringy feeling.
I think this is because to me, it feels it encompasses the 'women' as well as the 'fat'. Fat admirer, seems fetishistic and slightly too shallow and athstetic for my liking somehow.
I see the terms Fa and FFa as internet convenience terms, to catagorise, bring together and to find others. I never really use the terms in real life unless i feel forced! lol.
As for The extra F.. I think, scrap it. It really just explains who is male and female and we can find that out anyway. Its not like its a matter of making it easier for the bhms to identify females who admire them, because as cors pointed out, there can be gay/bi female Fa's.
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:29 PM   #20
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scrap it all
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:00 AM   #21
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I'm also all for getting rid of the extra F. It seems that the overwhelming majority of people here (females included) are comfortable with simply having the term FA be used and having "male" and "female" added as descriptors when needed... so seriously, why are we still having this conversation after so many years? Just get rid of the F already!
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBHMS View Post
To me, the term "FFA" is like saying "lesbian" rather than "homosexual".

If you say merely "homosexual" it is denotative of "human with a sexual orientation towards the same gender". Beyond that, the terms "gay" and "lesbian" break down the term "homosexual" by gender.

I see nothing wrong with it if somebody chooses (especially online) to self ascribe using gender. If a poster here or elsewhere believes gender is not important, s/he may use a gender neutral username. In real life, one may or may not self ascribe as male or female, or may self ascribe and present as transgendered.

I absolutely do not see it as the same thing as 'lady doctor' since the term is used regarding sexuality and sexual orientation. A "doctor" is a medical professional with certain education and training who performs a job so using gender makes less sense than it does in a sexual context.
YES! What she said.

Perhaps I'm in the minority in that I prefer the extra F. My FFA-ness is totally intertwined with my sexuality and womanhood. Being an FFA makes me feel feminine. It's truly a gender identity thing for me. I don't feel like I'm the same as a male FA simply because we both happen to like large bodies. I understand that we share many of the same issues, but by virtue of our "mars/venus" differences, I don't want to be lumped in with the men because it's convenient or PC. Perhaps I read too much Camille Paglia back in the day or something, but vive le difference, and let me have my own identity as a woman. To be equal does not mean we must be the same.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:35 AM   #23
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I'm perfectly comfortable with people using the term "FFA." For myself, however, I've never felt the need or the desire to use the extra F.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:10 PM   #24
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The terms FA / FFA are not confusing. What is problem with using FA or FFA?

I don't know why we discuss this term over and over again!?
Anyone uses the term on his visiting card?
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:52 AM   #25
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Hi

Looking at some of the recent polls when many people use the Acronym FA they are defiantly not including FFAs. I like seeing FFA used because then I know they are included in the topic.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blockierer View Post
The terms FA / FFA are not confusing. What is problem with using FA or FFA?

I don't know why we discuss this term over and over again!?
Anyone uses the term on his visiting card?
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