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Old 06-06-2009, 09:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by katorade View Post
So would you be okay with gay couples adopting?
yes whats wrong with that? im not anti-gay. im anti alot of things but im not against that since as i said in one of my post in this thread its between 2 consenting adults so i really dont have a problem with it. and the i say allowing gays to adopt is fine as long as the peoples backgrounds checked out and dont really have any thing serious against them like felonies on there records.

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Old 06-07-2009, 01:38 AM   #27
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The ramifications of the entire gay marriage issue go a lot further than the rather simplistic terms of the Free Press article:

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The fight against gay marriage is nothing more than an attempt to isolate homosexuals both politically and socially. Antigay zealots don't want homosexuals to marry and they don't want homosexuals to adopt. They want to prevent gay people from forming the sort of human relationships that make life worth living.
This simply isn't true. Not everyone opposed to same sex marriages is an anti gay zealot. I know plenty of people who could care less about same sex relationships of others and who who fully support civil unions and same sex adoptions. As to adoption, the record shows that single parent and same sex adoptions can be just as successful as traditional adoptions. What these non-zealots don't like is the political redefining of a word which to them is a religious sacrament.

To such persons I have a question they haven't been able to answer - if we got the government out of the marriage business and made marriage the exclusive province of the clergy, what do you then do with churches and clerics that would elect to sanction same sex marriages? We are back to square one.

Another problem - states can recognize same sex marriages all they want, but it doesn't change the 1100 or so references to marriage in Federal laws. Same sex couples don't get to file joint tax returns, qualify for spousal social security benefits, etc. Consistency says that the Federal and State definition of marriage should be the same. I know of several non-anti-gay zealots that oppose same sex marriages simply based on the practical confusion it creates.

The point being made here: getting the government involved in "marriage" was probably a mistake to begin with, but unscrambling the egg should be done by constitutional amendment, not something done by the courts or the states. I think such an amendment should have three points (the fourth one designed to address the Lee Marvin cohabitation type of situation):
1) permit congress and the states to universally pass laws and extend benefits to those involved in recognized civil unions irrespective of gender,

2) precluding any state from using the term "marriage" "husband" or "wife" in any legislative context. "Spouse" and "partner" would be the appropriate civil union terminology.

3) require all states to grandfather in as a recognized civil union any marriage sanctioned by a religious group.

4) also recognize as civil unions any relationship involving the cohabitation of individuals at the same domicile for more than six months unless they have filed a formal document disclaiming such a status and disavowing any sexual activity or marital intent.
I think it would also be nice if everyone in a civil union, however entered into, would have some sort of required continuing education requirement to insure they know what to do to make the relatonship last.

Such an approach would in my mind be fair to everyone involved. It achieves the real goals and addresses the real concerns of everyone involved except those who want to impose their standards and values on others (and both camps have elements guilty of that!) . However, I doubt if most partisans on either side would be willing to embrace such a resolution of the problem because it doesn't quite give them enough of what they want at the expense of the opposition.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:18 AM   #28
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We have 'Civil Partnerships' here. If people want to put a religious spin on thier 'wedding' day they can. There are plenty of gay ministers that will perform a religious ceremony. Many opt for a humanist ceremony or to get 'civil partnered' by a registrar and then a service/party later. To be honest, i dont know why people would want to push to be involved in a hetrosexual institution in which gay people are frowned upon ie Christian marrage ceremonies. I think the Civil Partnership Is just like 'marrage' without the religion; ie. You have the same legal rights as a married hetrosexual couple and its a proclaimation of your love for another person. Like i said, if you are religious, then this can be included as part of your ceremony. I think over here over 90% of people who get married in a christian ceremony never actually go to church and i'll bet most of them wont even believe in a christian God. Its just a tradition or institution that people seem to think is the only option half the time. I was at a humanist wedding last month and it was a really beautiful service and a lot more personal than any religious weddings i have been to.
Gay people HAVE to be afforded the same legal rights as straight people. End Of.. and i find it rediculous that they dont!!?? Christian Ceremonies are not the important thing to be fighting for here. Equal rights for all humans are.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:34 AM   #29
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My biggest issue with it is that Christians forget that marriage is not just a Christian institution. They can argue that it began as one, but at that time it had nothing to do with love and romance and everything to do with breeding rights and social politics. People all over the world have been changing the laws of marriage for centuries. I find it ridiculous that aging men can still marry child brides in some countries but we, one of the most progressive countries in the world, are too set in our ways to let a gay couple marry.

Meanwhile, our divorce rates are how high? Anybody give a crap about that any more, or are they just going to sit back and shut up about how screwed up that is, too? I find it hilarious that people go out of their way to defend such a precious institution when it's CLEARLY a freaking joke to most of them.

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Old 06-08-2009, 07:51 AM   #30
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Right. I have friends who got married and they had a pagan handfasting ceremony. The origins of this totally predate christianity. In fact Christianity take much of its symbols and holy dates from paganism too. (grrrr) like Easter-ester and Christmas-Candlemass etc etc. Its weird because Christianity by comparison to others is a fairly new religion, so its weird they stake a claim in so many of the traditions that have pretty much just been stolen!
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:54 AM   #31
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Quote:
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They can argue that it began as one, but at that time it had nothing to do with love and romance and everything to do with breeding rights and social politics. People all over the world have been changing the laws of marriage for centuries.
Damn right. For much of "civilization", marriage was basically a land contract between two men, with the bride thrown in as a deal-sweetener by her father. Thankfully, we've now got to the point where most of us see marriage as a joining of two equal partners who love each other, so restricting that based on the sex of either partner doesn't make any sense at all.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:12 PM   #32
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPcBI4CJc8

That is all.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:17 AM   #33
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Amazing. (and true of course)
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:36 PM   #34
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here is something that caused me to get into a few net discusions and arguments a few days ago because i was against the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIl3unzCH6o

read the comments some people feel that its a double standard.

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Old 06-14-2009, 06:36 AM   #35
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Me and my wives. I am poly of course. Also, if you think you see any males there you would be wrong, they are infact cross dressing females!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ducks.JPG (57.1 KB, 30 views)
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:15 AM   #36
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Me and my wives. I am poly of course. Also, if you think you see any males there you would be wrong, they are infact cross dressing females!!
oh my god mer, you have no idea how freaking hot that picture is
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Old 06-14-2009, 12:41 PM   #37
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oh my god mer, you have no idea how freaking hot that picture is
mmmm Quack Quack!!
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