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Old 05-23-2009, 09:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Blockierer View Post
Coming out is a lifelong job for FAs.
Since this is a place of open and honest debate, I don't comprehend the above statement, nor even this thread. I fully accept that people seem to have these issues, but it certainly isn't the case with everyone.

For some people, if they find a body type attractive, that's their lived experience. It's who they pursue. They defend that body type against attacks upon it, or upon the women who inhabit that body type -- hopefully not too angrily, but clearly and insistently -- just as they would defend their tastes in art, music, or whatever, that go against the grain and offend the majority.

It's not a matter of self-congratulatory "bravery," because "bravery" implies a struggle, and for some people, there is no struggle. It's just not caring that much about what other people think, and knowing that just became the majority of people believe something, that definitely doesn't make it right. If anything, it makes it likely wrong.

I guess my question would be, Why would anyone ever be "in"? That is, "in" in the way that "in" is being described in this thread (although I've always rejected the terminology associations with same-sex attraction, and still do).

What, is the approval of "friends" so important? Is there a belief that because most people seem to think a certain way, and the media pushes a certain standard, that that must be correct, and you're wrong? Why would anyone think that way, and hold their own opinions and tastes in such low regard?

That's what I don't understand. What's the basis of this seeming pressure to be "in"?

Last edited by kioewen; 05-23-2009 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 05-24-2009, 04:54 AM   #27
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I never 'came out' as such, but friends of mine noticed my preference around the time one of them got my password, looked through my emails and saw my registration to dims. Nobody judged though, as the guy who found me on here said, we all have our vices (he has a foot fetish for eg).

I'm still clueless as to whether my parents know or not, I think they might but it's never seemed like a big enough deal to bring up.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:37 PM   #28
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Coming out
is a lifelong job for FAs. Two weeks ago a colleague said to me after girl watching: "You are a big-fan". I guess he doesn't know that I have a fat wife, but I'm not sure.
I think everytime I'm holding hands with my wife in public that is a coming out.
Actions can definitely speak louder than words.
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:13 AM   #29
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My preference for the larger form was never hid but..being able to conversate with someone i am attracted to is still a work in progress.

Hopefully i can go from "grrrrrrr" to "hello"...lol
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secret turn on.....Genuine affection :)
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:30 AM   #30
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As an Fa,I've never had to come out to anyone. I tell people my preference and if they have a problem with it,then they need to get over it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by kioewen View Post
Since this is a place of open and honest debate, I don't comprehend the above statement, nor even this thread. I fully accept that people seem to have these issues, but it certainly isn't the case with everyone.

For some people, if they find a body type attractive, that's their lived experience. It's who they pursue. They defend that body type against attacks upon it, or upon the women who inhabit that body type -- hopefully not too angrily, but clearly and insistently -- just as they would defend their tastes in art, music, or whatever, that go against the grain and offend the majority.

It's not a matter of self-congratulatory "bravery," because "bravery" implies a struggle, and for some people, there is no struggle. It's just not caring that much about what other people think, and knowing that just became the majority of people believe something, that definitely doesn't make it right. If anything, it makes it likely wrong.

I guess my question would be, Why would anyone ever be "in"? That is, "in" in the way that "in" is being described in this thread (although I've always rejected the terminology associations with same-sex attraction, and still do).

What, is the approval of "friends" so important? Is there a belief that because most people seem to think a certain way, and the media pushes a certain standard, that that must be correct, and you're wrong? Why would anyone think that way, and hold their own opinions and tastes in such low regard?

That's what I don't understand. What's the basis of this seeming pressure to be "in"?
Yup, 100% agree. Well, thats been my experience and thoughts on the matter.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:59 AM   #32
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Default My Part of this Journey.

If anyone ever said that the act of "coming out" was easy, they are wrong. I wont lie, it's hard, very hard, but the relief you feel afterward is well worth it.

I was in the closet / "In the pantry" about my preference from when I was 14 till when I was 22. I was always afraid of what others might say or do. I was afraid of the confrontation with my parents. I was afraid my friends would think less of me. Heck, I was afraid to admit it to myself at some points.

I was raised in a very conservative style / reserved household (odd since my parents and I are quite liberal most times). My father especially, is the one who instilled this mindset of being fat is ugly and wrong. I was raised in an environment where Fat was a cursed word, you couldn't say it or even whisper it without a derogatory tone over-layed.

I realized I was an FA by the time I was 14, obviously not know the proper terms for such things. But my preference was indeed there, but hidden.

Throughout high school, my serious relationships were always with BBW's. For five years I dated one, sad fact was that she was a self-hating BBW, and regardless of how beautiful I told her she was, she still hated the way she looked, and thought less of me for liking it. So my preference became the "500 lb gorilla in the corner no one talks about" in regards to the relationship. As you can plainly see, this environment would have pushed me further into the closet.

After ending the 5 year relationship, I ran into someone I was really interested in. She said the only way she would date me was if I came out of the closet about myself. So, it was the motivation I needed to come out.

Step 1; Self Admittance.
As I said before, I was raised in a household where I was to believe that this lifestyle is wrong. Undoing that upbringing by admitting it to yourself is a hard thing to do. It took me a while to look myself in the eyes of a mirror and just say it. But low and behold, a night came, I looked at my reflection straight in the eyes and said, "I Love big women". At first I was nervous, almost so nervous as to shake. I said it again, "I Love Big women." My nerves started to calm down, my jitters started to subside. I stared into my eyes for a good 5 minutes after that, then I said it again, "I love big women." A wave of relief and relaxation finally hit. I was thrilled I had accomplished that much.

Step 2; Admittance to your Partner.
On my next date with her, I sat down and looked her in the eyes and said it again. She smiled, happy to see I was making progress. We spent the rest of the date talking about my preference. Talking about what it means to her, and what she has always thought about this lifestyle as well. I had never felt so good, so alive as to actually have a full and positive conversation about my preference. I felt released.

Step 3; Family Admittance.
As you could probably tell, I had always feared about what my parents would say. So I sat down with my mom first. She was always the more approachable one. "Mom," I said, "I have something to tell you about the women I date". She seemed worried at first. There was a long pause as she looked like she had something to say. I waited, nervously. "Is everything alright Michael?" she said. "Yes mom, nothing is wrong.” I paused again, looking for the right words. “Is this about the fact you’ve only ever dated plus-sized girls?” she said. “Well, actually, yes.” I said. She looked me firmly in the eyes. “Michael, let me say something, no matter who you’re interested in, or where you find love, I will always love you. No matter who you bring home, a friend of yours is a friend of mine. I have always accepted you for who you are, and this time will be no different. Now, could you do me one favor?” I was shocked that she already knew, and responded shyly. “Of course, what is it?” I said. “I know you probably planned on it, but don’t sit down with your father about this, ok?”

I went back to being shocked again. “What? Why?” I asked. She sighed before talking. “Well, firstly I want to tell you that I am not telling you to hide who you are. I am just saying, don’t announce it to him. We all know how you father is. I don’t fear him doing anything brash, but I would like you two to avoid an unneeded argument,” she said. She paused for a moment before talking again. “Look at it this way, you have no idea what your father, your siblings, or myself look for physically in a partner do you?” “Well, no I don’t,” I said. She continued, “So, why should it be any different for you? I mean none of us need to go around announcing to everyone what we are attracted to, so you don’t need to either.”

I thought for a moment. “I just can’t shake the feeling that I am still hiding who I am or how I feel.” She gave me a hug. “Don’t stress yourself over it. I know it took a lot to sit down and talk with me now, and this whole thing means so much to you, I am proud of you. I am not saying hide who you are from anyone. What I am saying is that if the topic ever comes up in conversation with people, don’t lie, and don’t hide it from them. Be who you are, but wait for them to ask you first.”

Step 4; Friend Admittance
After really listening to what my mom had said, I thought about it for quite a bit. After careful consideration, I began to agree with her. There was no need for me to run up to every person I see and tell them what I am attracted to. So with my friends, I decided to take her suggested approach. One fine day of hanging out, the guys saw a beautiful woman on tv, and began to do what guys do, comment on her beauty. I decided to let my real flag fly, suggesting that if she were thicker she would easily look just as good, if not better. And in similar situations point out when a model or spokes person looks too skinny, pointing out ribs and prominent cheek bones.
After all my worrying, my friends accepted what I liked, just as much as my mother did. I was so happy to finally be out.

Advice to people still in the pantry. : Speaking from experience, this is no easy road. You will stress yourself out over it. You will become a nervous wreck at times. It will be one of the hardest things you will do. But I can assure you the reward is well worth it. I cannot put into words how good it feels to admit who and how you are, and to like yourself for it.

The people on here are a great resource to build confidence and to help you work through it.

So lastly, go for it! It’s time you stop living in hiding, living in fear.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:07 PM   #33
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I can relate to that experience. For me, the process really began via the internet (about 10 years ago) where I first realized that I wasn't a unique oddity or alone in my aesthetic. This gave me the basis of confidence to begin to discuss things with my parents and close friends.

Whilst my parents were initially horrified, labeling my aesthetic as a passing phase that I would 'hopefully' outgrow, the reaction of my friends was nowhere near as negative as I'd presumed it might be.

I think 'outness' can be defined as the degree of comfort feels in one's skin... essentially 'being oneself'. In my early 20s, as with most people, my sense of self began to develop and I think it was critical that whilst that was happening, I'd already confronted myself and acknowledged the questions that FAs invariably have to ask themselves (i.e. is this aesthetic set? Yes... does this mean that I will be sabotaging a potential partner's desire to be thin by expressing it? No... etc. etc.). I think that in general, the earlier that one faces up to oneself and figures all this kind of stuff out, the better the outcomes will be.

Also, over time, it became obvious to all that my dating preferences were exclusively in the range of 'big'. To a large extent, this went uncommented upon amongst my peers. That said, I think I define truly being 'out' as when I reached a point of confidently holding discussion on the subject amongst friends and family... and even strangers if they saw fit to comment on it? This really didn't materialize in a vacuum for me. It took time and the experience to really become 100% 'ok' with myself. I think one of the key things that bolstered this along the way was meeting and befriending other FAs. In fact, I'd recommend to anyone in the closet that this one part of the process alone will enable them to leap forward towards 'coming out'.


Some people feel it necessary to borrow lingo from the gay liberation movement to describe their preference for fat women. It is pretentious to borrow language from a civil rights movement to describe the kind of woman one desires. It is self-centered to think that one's particular preference for a fat woman would have political or social overtones requiring explanation. In viewing the necessity to explain one's preference for a fat woman is to dehumanize the woman as if you were desiring a freak.

What this conversation is really about is do you have the emotional stability to be self-revealing to others without imbuing your personal preferences in such rhetoric. Have you got over the adolescent notion of how special you are concerning your choices? Do you have the self-integrity to have values that differ from your parents considering that you are an adult now. Grow up and take responsibility for what you desire.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by katherine22 View Post
[/color]
Some people feel it necessary to borrow lingo from the gay liberation movement to describe their preference for fat women. It is pretentious to borrow language from a civil rights movement to describe the kind of woman one desires. It is self-centered to think that one's particular preference for a fat woman would have political or social overtones requiring explanation. In viewing the necessity to explain one's preference for a fat woman is to dehumanize the woman as if you were desiring a freak.

What this conversation is really about is do you have the emotional stability to be self-revealing to others without imbuing your personal preferences in such rhetoric. Have you got over the adolescent notion of how special you are concerning your choices? Do you have the self-integrity to have values that differ from your parents considering that you are an adult now. Grow up and take responsibility for what you desire.
Way to not condescend.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:39 PM   #35
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[/color]
Some people feel it necessary to borrow lingo from the gay liberation movement to describe their preference for fat women. It is pretentious to borrow language from a civil rights movement to describe the kind of woman one desires. It is self-centered to think that one's particular preference for a fat woman would have political or social overtones requiring explanation. In viewing the necessity to explain one's preference for a fat woman is to dehumanize the woman as if you were desiring a freak.

What this conversation is really about is do you have the emotional stability to be self-revealing to others without imbuing your personal preferences in such rhetoric. Have you got over the adolescent notion of how special you are concerning your choices? Do you have the self-integrity to have values that differ from your parents considering that you are an adult now. Grow up and take responsibility for what you desire.
I think there are often social overtones that require explanation. When a friend stops wanting to be your friend, when your family rejects you and doesn't speak to you for years, when your sexuality is frequently attacked or misunderstood by those to whom it applies... these are all social overtones of significance. These are just a few of the things that can happen for FAs. Granted that experiences vary but I've met enough FAs... and heard enough testimony IRL to know that these kind of outcomes cannot be dismissed as freak occurrences.

Using terms like closet is probably more a functional choice rather than some kind of implicit 'we have it as bad as homosexuals' inference. Although, that said, I have read from some of the gay FAs on these boards that they have sometimes found their attraction to fatness be more transgressive of social norms than their same sex attraction. Perhaps the comparison is not without merit after all? I have also heard that it is far more acceptable to be gay in many European countries than it is to be fat. Having lived in England and France for most of my life I could believe that to be true.

I do agree that it is a question of integrity but to dismiss the FA experience in such an offhand way betrays quite a lack of compassion for very real issues that many FAs face. I appreciate that its probably not enjoyable to come and read FAs talking about how their experience of dating fat people has inherent difficulty when one is a fat person oneself. However, I really don't feel its fair to level the charge that by admitting our realities, FA/FFAs are complicit in dehumanizing fat people as freaks. I'm sorry if you felt that way when you read my post. In no way was that my intention.

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Old 01-10-2010, 10:50 PM   #36
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[/COLOR]
Some people feel it necessary to borrow lingo from the gay liberation movement to describe their preference for fat women. It is pretentious to borrow language from a civil rights movement to describe the kind of woman one desires. It is self-centered to think that one's particular preference for a fat woman would have political or social overtones requiring explanation. In viewing the necessity to explain one's preference for a fat woman is to dehumanize the woman as if you were desiring a freak.

What this conversation is really about is do you have the emotional stability to be self-revealing to others without imbuing your personal preferences in such rhetoric. Have you got over the adolescent notion of how special you are concerning your choices? Do you have the self-integrity to have values that differ from your parents considering that you are an adult now. Grow up and take responsibility for what you desire.
Gays don't have a stranglehold on the term "Closet." It's a metaphor used by many groups, and they were not the first. Just so you know.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:57 PM   #37
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Gays don't have a stranglehold on the term "Closet." It's a metaphor used by many groups, and they were not the first
Yup. Agreed. Frankly, I find the term "closet" quite accurate in its parallels across lots of experiences.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:55 AM   #38
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I think there are often social overtones that require explanation. When a friend stops wanting to be your friend, when your family rejects you and doesn't speak to you for years, when your sexuality is frequently attacked or misunderstood by those to whom it applies... these are all social overtones of significance. These are just a few of the things that can happen for FAs. Granted that experiences vary but I've met enough FAs... and heard enough testimony IRL to know that these kind of outcomes cannot be dismissed as freak occurrences.

Using terms like closet is probably more a functional choice rather than some kind of implicit 'we have it as bad as homosexuals' inference. Although, that said, I have read from some of the gay FAs on these boards that they have sometimes found their attraction to fatness be more transgressive of social norms than their same sex attraction. Perhaps the comparison is not without merit after all? I have also heard that it is far more acceptable to be gay in many European countries than it is to be fat. Having lived in England and France for most of my life I could believe that to be true.

I do agree that it is a question of integrity but to dismiss the FA experience in such an offhand way betrays quite a lack of compassion for very real issues that many FAs face. I appreciate that its probably not enjoyable to come and read FAs talking about how their experience of dating fat people has inherent difficulty when one is a fat person oneself. However, I really don't feel its fair to level the charge that by admitting our realities, FA/FFAs are complicit in dehumanizing fat people as freaks. I'm sorry if you felt that way when you read my post. In no way was that my intention.
As a big fattie, a big lady queer, and a big Fat Admirer of both genders, I can attest that a lot of my coming to terms with my sexuality and my gender expression was very similar to my coming to terms with my fatness and my fat-specific sexuality. I've said it here before, that in my life experience, it has been much easier to grow up and live as a queer person than a fat one. I would never devalue the experiences of my fellow F/FAs, since I know how hard it is to tell my friends about my fat sexual life, when they all are super keen on asking about my queer sexual life.

For those of you who don't get the whole cloest thing for F/FAs, go to wikipedia and read about Goffman and stigma theory. It may suck to read if you're fat, but it explains a lot about how powerful stigma functions in this society, and why (IMO) stigma for fatties continues to go up as stigma for the queers continues to go down.*

* and yes, I know, fatties and FAs don't risk violence and death in the way that many queers, past and present have had to deal with. However, ask a fat person who has been heckled in public places numerous times over the course of their life if they feel like they've been violated, and I bet they would say yes. I still cringe if I have to enter certain spaces or am in close proximity to certain types of people (teenage boys, mostly) where memories of past anti-fat words and actions come to mind. I am afraid in these moments, and I have to say, I have those moments a lot more than moments where I am afraid because of my queer apperance.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:36 PM   #39
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You do have a good point Bexy... I think stating it in terms of "coming out as a FA" can be an inexact way to put it. In many cases it's simply realizing that one is a FA. This thread does also have overlap with other threads discussing when one came to terms or simply realized they were a FA. I think (certainly in my case...) "coming out" as a FA is often times synonymous with "realizing" that one is a FA. There doesn't have to be any sort of "day of reckoning", or big epiphany that takes place. At some point in their lives a person can simply realize that they are attracted to fat people... and that's all there is to it.
That's the nail on the head.

Although I do recall an instance where I was "outed" by a female cross country runner whom I worked with.

We had been friends for about three months and been hanging out after work and generally just getting along as two coworkers that fall into friendship do when out of nowhere her boy friend breaks up with her so he can get back together with his ex.

She calls me in distress, sobbing, and as I'm consoling her she sniffles a little and asks, "Do you want to start dating?".

With out missing a beat I casually said, "Nah, I'm cool."

She stopped sobbing instantly.

"Why not?"

"I like fat girls."

Awkward silence.

"REALLY?!"

"Hell yeah."

She burst up laughing.
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:33 PM   #40
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I'm a lurker, but wanted to voice my opinion, and in particular, my absolute disagreement with katharine, above.

I think we all need to be mindful that we don't live in a completely homogeneous society and we've all internalized slightly different social expectations. The amount of stigma attached to fatness and love of fatness varies greatly across short distances. What seems de-stigmatized in say, the Pacific Northwest, or Atlanta, might not be so (and is not so) in, say, Los Angeles, or New York City. And what flies in East Los Angeles (and it flies so well) does not necessarily fly in the Financial District.

It's ridiculously naive to say that people just need to be honest and emotionally mature when the amount of ridicule one can be subjected to for being (a) fat, or (b) a FA can often rival that leveled at the queer community. And although violence is rare it does occur.

The difference is huge, also, depending on one's perceived social status and one's chosen profession (this is especially true if one's chosen profession thinks especially highly of itself and has an institutionalized social class structure of its own). You'd be right to condemn that elitist attitude of course, but if you're stuck in that system to speak up is no easy task, and isn't a simple question of emotional maturity.

I know very intelligent fat women who, despite passing the hardest bar exam in the nation, are unable to secure long term employment as attorneys because partners want to "put the best face forward" with respect to their clients. The bigger the pockets of the client, the truer this is. And after the layoffs, in the worst market in years, when the disgusting verbal fat-abuse flies behind closed doors, would you, as a FA, voice your preference and risk your career? Would you introduce these overpaid, emotionally-retarded frat-boys (and worse, emotionally-insecure, skinny, rich women), who hold the keys to your future employment, to your obese partner? You can say that an emotionally mature person would, but how about an emotionally mature person with $200,000 in law school loans to pay off and nowhere else to turn but a job in BigLaw if one wishes to ever pay off that amount?

This sort of institutionalized hatred isn't, of course, universal in the legal field, and not even in BigLaw outside of "important" legal markets, but when you're stuck somewhere. . . you're, well, stuck somewhere. Sometimes the only way to survive is to give in to societal pressures until you can get to a safer more accepting place, but that journey isn't always as easy as we'd like.

(Anticipating responses: how about we ridicule a shallow profession instead of a person who works in a shallow profession; and the emotional immaturity in certain social circles and areas rather than those who feel hammered down by that immaturity?)

And how would you feel as an otherwise emotionally-mature person who grew up with his father proclaiming his hatred for "teh fatties," and those who date them, at the sight of the same jiggle that causes your pulse to quicken? How about you experience that, frequently, when you're a kid just developing your sexuality-- especially when you come to realize that nothing comes close to the way that jiggle makes you feel?

And how about you compound that with the stigmatization you've inadvertently come to know first-hand by getting the crap beat out of you frequently in middle school for being just a little overweight yourself?

Jesus, this stuff isn't always easy for everyone!

I love beautiful fat women. I love them so much. I'd love to advocate for them and tell them they're beautiful and sexy, and altogether praiseworthy at all costs, but what is an acceptable cost for one isn't for another. Life is always complicated.
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:44 PM   #41
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Please excuse the double post, but I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't wholly talking about myself in the above, just trying to extrapolate on some of my experiences and the experiences of some of my friends.

I'm open about dating bbws on a person-by-person basis, but there are still people (family and people that I otherwise love) to whom I could not come out and state, explicitly, that bbws my strong preference.

There's also the issue that being too explicit about your preferences can get you branded a sicko and a fetishist when that's not really the case (not that there's anything wrong with that). In this limited way, it might be easier to come out as homosexual as society encourages a strict gay-straight dichotomy, and you're expected to fit into one box or the other.* When you add more nuance it tends to make people very uncomfortable as it begins to look more like a "perversion" to mainstream expectations. IMO, YMMV, TL;DR, etc.

Additional point of clarification: I don't advocate giving into societal pressures when they are doing harm; just wanted to point out that it's not always an easy task to show the world your true self even when you've fully embraced it yourself. An obvious point, in retrospect.


*FN: No offense if I'm way off on this one, queer friends & neighbors. This is just my grasp of the issue, formed mostly by talking to gay friends about how much harder it was for them to come out as being, say, nonreligious humanists than gay.

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Old 01-15-2010, 11:25 PM   #42
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In viewing the necessity to explain one's preference for a fat woman is to dehumanize the woman as if you were desiring a freak.
The fuck???

Where does it say anything about freaks? And where does anything about the term "closet" mean that somebody's desire is freakish? Being open about your sexuality is like the polar opposite of making somebody into a freak or making your sexuality "freakish".
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Old 01-16-2010, 03:56 AM   #43
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I love beautiful fat women. I love them so much. I'd love to advocate for them and tell them they're beautiful and sexy, and altogether praiseworthy at all costs, but what is an acceptable cost for one isn't for another. Life is always complicated.
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I'm open about dating bbws on a person-by-person basis, but there are still people (family and people that I otherwise love) to whom I could not come out and state, explicitly, that bbws my strong preference . . . .

Liam, I am not posting to ridicule you. Your struggle is very clear and I don't discount that it really is a struggle for you. As a fat woman though, I'm posting to ask you not to date my fellow fat sisters. Until you have dealt with the obvious shame you feel about what you prefer, please be man enough to avoid exposing potential partners to you the same way you hopefully would if you knew you had a communicable disease. Even if that means you have to be celibate and unpartnered.

Your mixed feelings, your excuses, your justifications--there is a little truth in all of them and you are entitled to them. I worked in a very image-conscious industry in New York. I am not unfamiliar with the type of societal pressure you're referring to. But that is the path you chose and what you are electing to make meaningful in your life. You have the potential to do harm, and since you know you're unwilling to stand up for a fat partner, the harm you'll do will be done knowingly and with premeditation. If you are unwilling to push back against the pressures you feel, do not make your struggle the burden of someone else who deserves better and deserves not to be splattered by the self-loathing you haven't yet come to terms with.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:01 AM   #44
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What this conversation is really about is do you have the emotional stability to be self-revealing to others without imbuing your personal preferences in such rhetoric.
Please reread the forum rules regarding being rude and dismissive of FAs and FA issues.

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Have you got over the adolescent notion of how special you are concerning your choices?
No. FFAs are a unique breed and I'm fucking special.

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Do you have the self-integrity to have values that differ from your parents considering that you are an adult now.
I'm not sure self-integrity is even a word, but whatever. And being an FA or FFA has nothing to do with values, it's who you're attracted to.

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Grow up and take responsibility for what you desire.
Please see above directive regarding being rude and dismissive of FAs. This is a place for FAs to share coming out stories, as demonstrated by the title of the thread. It's not for you to come in and berate people for not doing it right, not thinking about it right, and not having the proper mindset.

For me, personally, I've always said when you have Chris Farley as your celebrity crush, there's never really any closet. LOL. When it's come up, such as when I've dated people from Dims and had to explain how I met them, or when I was waitressing and I'd say a particular patron was cute and when somebody said "Wow he's big" and I explain I was a chubby chaser, I've just tossed it off as not being a big deal. I've found the less of a big deal you make, the less of a big deal others make of it.

Both my parents actually hate fatties, but it never goes beyond 'Ugh, that guy's too fat' but that's about it. I mean they're entitled to be attracted to what they want or have their own biases or prejudices. I don't really see it as a topic for discussion and I can't imagine they would either. My mom is one who will occaisionally point out a fat guy and say "you probably think he's sexy" but it's just like general teasing, nothing mean or acting like I'm emotionally unstable or anything. Not sure what kind of parent wants to think about their kids' sex lives anyway.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:12 AM   #45
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one of the most easiest admittence of my FA status ever. My parents are very accepting. I told them "Mum, dad, I'm... well, I love big women."
"And?"
"what?"
"and? As long as you're happy, it's fine by us."

My friends first took the piss out of it. I was subjected to terms like "Whale Lover", "Hippo humper" and "Chubby chaser," But then I reminded, individually, that they're fetishes where a little more degrading than mine, of which included bondage and girls who cheated on their boyfriends (I'm serious, A good friend on mine can't get it on with a single girl, it always has got to have that element of risk in there)

My brother, on the other hand...whew, let's just say, it was rather more difficult.
When I first, well, "Came out", I was 18, and I needed to be straight with my parents before I went off to uni. unfortunately my brother heard, and hasn't let up on it. Looking down his nose at me like I'm beneath him, whilst he's had bad relationship after bad relationship. A succession of drunken one-night stands, almost knocking one girl up, and being beaten up by another girls boyfriend. He still looks down on me because "At least I don't F**k whales!"

meh, well, siblings are there to annoy, really.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:07 PM   #46
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Liam, I am not posting to ridicule you. Your struggle is very clear and I don't discount that it really is a struggle for you. As a fat woman though, I'm posting to ask you not to date my fellow fat sisters. Until you have dealt with the obvious shame you feel about what you prefer, please be man enough to avoid exposing potential partners to you the same way you hopefully would if you knew you had a communicable disease. Even if that means you have to be celibate and unpartnered.

Your mixed feelings, your excuses, your justifications--there is a little truth in all of them and you are entitled to them. I worked in a very image-conscious industry in New York. I am not unfamiliar with the type of societal pressure you're referring to. But that is the path you chose and what you are electing to make meaningful in your life. You have the potential to do harm, and since you know you're unwilling to stand up for a fat partner, the harm you'll do will be done knowingly and with premeditation. If you are unwilling to push back against the pressures you feel, do not make your struggle the burden of someone else who deserves better and deserves not to be splattered by the self-loathing you haven't yet come to terms with.
Rainday, I appreciate your concerns, but the rhetoric is a little extreme. I double posted with the disclaimer in part because I didn't want anyone to take this as entirely my personal backstory-- it isn't; it's based on long conversations I've had with others about their experiences, and about what they've witnessed. That conversation was possible because I am now open with my likes and dislikes to, what I think, is a reasonable extent. That is, an extent to which everyone knows and understands that I will date and love bbws, but not to an extent where the discussion is completely sexualized.

The family issues, and schoolhouse beatings, those were me. I've come to terms with that. There was a time where that history was overwhelming. My initial point, though, wasn't that merely becoming "more emotionally mature and honest" is all that it takes to overcome these issues. It just isn't. Social pressures and stigma can be excessive, and as people with different backgrounds, different social imprinting etc, our reactions to that stigma can vary greatly.

Currently, if someone directly attacked my own partner's weight, they would hear about it, and if it was one of my employers i would take it directly to HR and escalate the issue as much as possible. I have never directly experienced this, though. But, in light of what I've discussed with others, I know there was a time in my life where, despite being mature, I might have been reluctant to introduce a fat partner to those individuals in that sort of environment. And getting to where I am now wasn't a question of simply maturing. That's way too reductive.

Incidentally, my father knows that I have dated larger women. I still get teased for it, but I don't feel any shame. I would make damn sure he never verbally attacked a partner. I will not, however, discuss with him the extent of my sexual preferences. He can gather that I'm a FA from context, but there's a balance between being open and banging your head against a brick wall.

A final point: there is way too much hostility to different experiences and POVs on this forum, and way too much projecting of one's own issues onto those of other posters. As a guy who is mainly attracted to smaller BBWs, and who disagrees with, say, feederism and the worship of fat at the cost of health, I don't feel like I fit in terribly well here. I will not, however, tell anyone here that they are suffering from some terrible complex and should become "celibate" so as to avoid harming others.

Hence the lurking.

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Old 01-16-2010, 06:34 PM   #47
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liam, I'm not quite sure how to respond as this last post sounds like it was made by an entirely different person than the one who made the first two posts. Very different. Which version is really more descriptive of you is obviously your call. My basic message for you or any FA reading is still the same though: Don't date fat women until you can date them openly, introduce them to your family and others, speak up for them publicly and accept your own preference. If that requires the sacrifice of not dating until you're at that point, then sacrifice. Don't expose women to your ambivalence.

There's nothing there that denies that the journey to that point may not be an easy one.

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Old 01-16-2010, 07:51 PM   #48
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liam, I'm not quite sure how to respond as this last post sounds like it was made by an entirely different person than the one who made the first two posts. Very different. Which version is really more descriptive of you is obviously your call. My basic message for you or any FA reading is still the same though: Don't date fat women until you can date them openly, introduce them to your family and others, speak up for them publicly and accept your own preference. If that requires the sacrifice of not dating until you're at that point, then sacrifice. Don't expose women to your ambivalence.

There's nothing there that denies that the journey to that point may not be an easy one.
rainyday, those are fair points and I don't particularly disagree.

Re: different sounding personas; my first post was based only in part on my own first-hand experience (and subjective feelings), and the intent wasn't really to describe my own experience, but rather cast light on what some FAs might go through. The first post was done in haste while at work and reading it now I can see how it looks more like a personal story than a series of rhetorical examples/questions, which was the intent. I tried to clarify this in the second post, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. There was obviously some of me in there, and the whole thing is necessarily filtered through my own past experiences, but that doesn't mean it accurately represents my current attitudes. This doesn't make it untrue.

(Being able to edit posts here without the time period available to do so being used up by moderator review would probably have helped with the clarity of my first post, since I've always been a write on the fly and edit afterwards kind of guy, but I understand the necessity of the mod process.)

The point in post 1 was really only to show that this stuff isn't easy, and that closted FAs aren't necessarily (a) overreacting by actually feeling "closeted" or (b) emotionally retarded. I don't think you disagree, but previous posters seemed to.

I don't see how my second and third posts are internally inconsistent. I guess, by the standards of some on these boards, I'd still qualify as closeted since I'm not going to tell a few people that I am more attracted to bbws than non-bbws (in general, not on an individual basis).

But I certainly would be open about dating a bbw individually and defending her against abuse in any and all forms.

The sticking point for me (aside from the personal relationship issues I mentioned) is discussing something so sexualized as explicit preferences; it's not something I'm willing to state in front of everyone, and in part that's because (a) there's an element of objectification involved, and (b) that level of specificity honestly doesn't hold: I date/love/am attracted to individuals, and that is of course shaped by so much more than body type. And, honestly, who I am attracted to is very fluid, even though attraction to plus-size women is probably something of a default for me.

I suspect, from reading these boards, that my preferences might be a little more fluid than many FAs. And that one I won't elaborate on, lest I ruin my nascent political career (joke).
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #49
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Liam, I am not posting to ridicule you. Your struggle is very clear and I don't discount that it really is a struggle for you. As a fat woman though, I'm posting to ask you not to date my fellow fat sisters. Until you have dealt with the obvious shame you feel about what you prefer, please be man enough to avoid exposing potential partners to you the same way you hopefully would if you knew you had a communicable disease. Even if that means you have to be celibate and unpartnered.

Your mixed feelings, your excuses, your justifications--there is a little truth in all of them and you are entitled to them. I worked in a very image-conscious industry in New York. I am not unfamiliar with the type of societal pressure you're referring to. But that is the path you chose and what you are electing to make meaningful in your life. You have the potential to do harm, and since you know you're unwilling to stand up for a fat partner, the harm you'll do will be done knowingly and with premeditation. If you are unwilling to push back against the pressures you feel, do not make your struggle the burden of someone else who deserves better and deserves not to be splattered by the self-loathing you haven't yet come to terms with.


This is such perfection I felt the need to say that here, as well as in rep.


I am a long term Los Angeleno (in spite of being on the east coast now), and spent many formative years in Santa Monica and Venice....I guess I have a different experience of Los Angeles than Liam does (working in education and THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, thank you....do I win the shallow profession contest?)....as a fat girl who never really had a hard time of it, and dated all the time, and got work easily..hrm...

While there might be tiny bits of merit in what Liam said, and I am glad its not just HIS experience he speaks of...... or else it sounds like he is in for a very very lonely life...very sad.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:25 PM   #50
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Nevermind..I love James too much to be anything but as nice as I can be.
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