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Old 06-09-2009, 11:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by CamileL View Post
I used to think that way, too. Then I met some women with some very nasty attitudes. :/
No, I know, me too. Fuck them, I say. I just think all the pondering of what makes a BBW/small woman, etc...I dunno. Forest for the trees and all.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:15 PM   #27
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I wish this could be defined by numbers; that would make everything easy. Unfortunately, as with Gulliver's Travels, big is relative; this was proven by Cors. Beautiful is judgemental and nebulous as well; as with porn, there is no definition by which the subject may be measured except to say, 'I know it when I see it.' We all know this won't wash; certain shades of beauty, such as character, humanity, and love, aren't immediately visible without getting to know the subject in question. The only aspect here that is irrefutable is gender, and that, in and of itself is only a detail; anyone remember the story of Joan of Arc? In the end, I think the title of BBW is something assumed by the wearer, like Mother; it is earned by the courageous woman who makes that choice when she gets to the fork in the road that demands it.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:17 PM   #28
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All I know is, I'm not one. (Because I have a penis.)
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:20 PM   #29
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I don't form an identity through being a BBW but rather through being a fat girl.
from my perspective there's lots of girls who are fat, but not as many girls that like their fat bodies. that's when it's helpful to have a word that distinguishes between the two, and for the time being that word is bbw.

i'm not really fond of that term, though. it strikes me as a bit reactive, but i embrace it and use it anyway because i'm a member of this community. it'd be up to the ladies (and each individual) to decide what's best for them, i suppose.

if you want to be a fat girl, more power to you. i think some of the other members had a longer struggle to be able to define themselves as beautiful, so just keep that in mind even if you decide that the term bbw isn't for you. it's an acronym worth respecting.

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Old 06-09-2009, 04:22 PM   #30
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from my perspective there's lots of girls who are fat, but not as many girls that like their fat bodies. that's when it's helpful to have a word that distinguishes between the two, and for the time being that word is bbw.

i'm not really fond of that term, though. it strikes me as a bit reactive, but i embrace it and use it anyway because i'm a member of this community. it'd be up to the ladies (and each individual) to decide what's best for them, i suppose.

if you want to be a fat girl, more power to you. i think some of the other members had a longer struggle to be able to define themselves as beautiful, so just keep that in mind even if you decide that the term bbw isn't for you. it's an acronym worth respecting.
The fact that I am able to refer to myself as fat rather than BBW, big boned, chunky, etc. makes it clear that I embrace who I am and accept the fact that yeah, I'm fat. Once again, BBW is too much of a euphamism for me.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:26 PM   #31
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I am old school. I am a woman. I know there is an obsession here for labels, but, get yer eyes checked if you can't tell if I am fat.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:10 PM   #32
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I wish this could be defined by numbers; that would make everything easy. Unfortunately, as with Gulliver's Travels, big is relative; this was proven by Cors. Beautiful is judgemental and nebulous as well; as with porn, there is no definition by which the subject may be measured except to say, 'I know it when I see it.' We all know this won't wash; certain shades of beauty, such as character, humanity, and love, aren't immediately visible without getting to know the subject in question. The only aspect here that is irrefutable is gender, and that, in and of itself is only a detail; anyone remember the story of Joan of Arc? In the end, I think the title of BBW is something assumed by the wearer, like Mother; it is earned by the courageous woman who makes that choice when she gets to the fork in the road that demands it.
There are a set of numbers: BMI and height-weight charts. Blech. Phooey. Those numbers are damn near worthless too, especially if some entity like the NIH can redefine those numbers at their discretion. Fuck them too.

Also, I don't think gender is irrefutable either. I have small sideburns that I don't always shave off and when I don't I get mistaken for a man. Doesn't matter if I'm wearing makeup, a dress, and huge earrings. I can't even count the number of times I've been called Sir, or to see the priceless expression on those people's faces when they hear me speak. It irks me sometimes, but those befuddled mumbling apologies are quite amusing. Gender doesn't always exist in binaries.

ETA: I don't have any strong feelings about the term, and I use it all the time. I never saw it as a euphemism either. There are other euphemistic words that irk me waaaay more. What makes a woman a bbw is as with all things fat, subjective.

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Old 06-09-2009, 08:21 PM   #33
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I think gender is irrefutable because, in the most intimate setting, it can be proven in an absolute sense; it's hard to argue with what's below the belt. Sure, there are points about us all that cross customary boundaries, but it usually breaks down to one or the other conclusively.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:43 PM   #34
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I think gender is irrefutable because, in the most intimate setting, it can be proven in an absolute sense; it's hard to argue with what's below the belt. Sure, there are points about us all that cross customary boundaries, but it usually breaks down to one or the other conclusively.
Okay, I'm not an expert on trans-anything, but what if the person is a transgender female? What then? I realize a transgender female is ostensibly a female, but....if feel like that's a gray area, and again I admit I'm not fully versed on the subject, so I apologize to anyone if I've misunderstood what a trans person is. In any event I still maintain, gender doesn't exist in binaries even if I can't fully explain why.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:53 PM   #35
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I suppose that would be the loophole in my theory; after all, they say nothing in life is certain but death and taxes, right? You're right, there are medical phenomena that I can't explain or dismiss, so there are no definitive criteria for BBW that I can consider.
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Old 06-09-2009, 08:56 PM   #36
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I suppose that would be the loophole in my theory; after all, they say nothing in life is certain but death and taxes, right? You're right, there are medical phenomena that I can't explain or dismiss, so there are no definitive criteria for BBW that I can consider.
Well, I honestly don't think there needs to be a definitive definition. It's just one of those "I know it when I see it" kind of things, whatever "it" is.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:25 PM   #37
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Just because a woman does not see herself as beautiful, doesn't mean she isn't beautiful at all.
Seriously. I'm sick of the "not confident/not confident enough" headtrips some people use to try to control and/or discount other people. It's counterproductive.

Also...

I don't enjoy semantics games, but I'm glad there are people who seek to infuse various labels with new, personal, and positive meaning. Let people pick the size descriptors they like best, and try not to read too much into the choices they make.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:24 AM   #38
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Okay, I'm not an expert on trans-anything, but what if the person is a transgender female? What then? I realize a transgender female is ostensibly a female, but....if feel like that's a gray area, and again I admit I'm not fully versed on the subject, so I apologize to anyone if I've misunderstood what a trans person is. In any event I still maintain, gender doesn't exist in binaries even if I can't fully explain why.
From what I understand of it, a fat transperson that is biologically female would probably consider himself a fat male born with the wrong pipes. @_@
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:21 PM   #39
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honestly, if you think you are a bbw, you probably fit into the category. To me, bbw refers to a woman with curves- whether youre a size 12 or a 30, if recognizing and appreciating the curves makes you happy, then you are a bigger, beautiful, woman. And to the response of its not bbw- its just being fat, I think the beautiful aspect of bbw has a lot to do with confidence, which i feel makes a woman look and feel beautiful from the inside out. And hell, it is a lot more attractive sounding than, "yes I'm fat". Even if it's the truth, don't we all want to feel beautiful, ya know??
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:14 PM   #40
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Question for the BBW/fat women/your-label-here: what are your thoughts on when someone who you would consider to be not-BBW identifies herself as a BBW?

I know that hearing someone smaller than me talk about how "fat" they are in a negative way makes me feel awful-- and I'm sure that a lot of you have had similar experiences-- but what about in a positive or even neutral way?

What if it's someone who is what most people would consider thin (or at least "average")? I've gotten into arguments with people who claimed that Beyonce and Jennifer Connelly aren't thin (not that they claimed that these women are fat, just not thin). I'm still boggled. I mean, I guess Beyonce is somewhat curvier than a lot of female pop stars... kind of... but Jennifer Connelly? Really? If they're... average, I guess?... then where does fat start? Where does obese start? And what if a woman Beyonce's size or Jennifer Connelly's size identifies as fat? How would you react?
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:44 PM   #41
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Question for the BBW/fat women/your-label-here: what are your thoughts on when someone who you would consider to be not-BBW identifies herself as a BBW?

I know that hearing someone smaller than me talk about how "fat" they are in a negative way makes me feel awful-- and I'm sure that a lot of you have had similar experiences-- but what about in a positive or even neutral way?

What if it's someone who is what most people would consider thin (or at least "average")? I've gotten into arguments with people who claimed that Beyonce and Jennifer Connelly aren't thin (not that they claimed that these women are fat, just not thin). I'm still boggled. I mean, I guess Beyonce is somewhat curvier than a lot of female pop stars... kind of... but Jennifer Connelly? Really? If they're... average, I guess?... then where does fat start? Where does obese start? And what if a woman Beyonce's size or Jennifer Connelly's size identifies as fat? How would you react?
I have given up trying to figure this out. If a person who is obviously not fat wants to think they are fat, then, whatever. Sometimes people just want to complain just to complain. As long as that person doesn't try to bond with me over their "fatness" then whatever. If they do try to bond then I have to roll my eyes and say something - usually something dismissive. I know that person really has no idea what being fat really means if they think just having a big ass makes them fat. It also makes me feel like what they say trivializes what I've experienced as an actual fat person. Generally tho, ignoring "I'm so fat" comments from thin people keeps me relatively sane.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:16 PM   #42
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Question for the BBW/fat women/your-label-here: what are your thoughts on when someone who you would consider to be not-BBW identifies herself as a BBW?

I know that hearing someone smaller than me talk about how "fat" they are in a negative way makes me feel awful-- and I'm sure that a lot of you have had similar experiences-- but what about in a positive or even neutral way?

What if it's someone who is what most people would consider thin (or at least "average")? I've gotten into arguments with people who claimed that Beyonce and Jennifer Connelly aren't thin (not that they claimed that these women are fat, just not thin). I'm still boggled. I mean, I guess Beyonce is somewhat curvier than a lot of female pop stars... kind of... but Jennifer Connelly? Really? If they're... average, I guess?... then where does fat start? Where does obese start? And what if a woman Beyonce's size or Jennifer Connelly's size identifies as fat? How would you react?
I've been baffled by this one as well. One of my friends is a size 10 because she has hips and round behind. According to her BMI, she's overweight. So now she goes on about how she needs to lose weight (or at least tone up her tummy). Part of it is because there is a big difference between what society considers slender or overweight and what is physiologically considered overweight. When most of those doctors go on the news and say "most of America is overweight" they're talking about BMI. Considering some of those same doctors then turn around and try to convince people to eat moar soy, I tend to ignore them. A woman like Beyonce has hips. Jenifer Connelly has curves. Sadly, both seem to be so rare in Hollywood that the appearance of either baffles people.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:31 PM   #43
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I never liked other people giving me labels without my agreement, or trying to tell me I'm not something I think I am just because their definition is slightly different (though if I've got the definition obviously wrong, that's a different story).

Words are as flexible as people and I think everyone has the right to declare what labels properly apply to them. If you want to be a BMI 16 BBW, go right ahead. People might not accept your label (and might laugh in your face), but if it makes you happy to call yourself that, where's the harm?
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:19 AM   #44
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I never liked other people giving me labels without my agreement, or trying to tell me I'm not something I think I am just because their definition is slightly different (though if I've got the definition obviously wrong, that's a different story).

Words are as flexible as people and I think everyone has the right to declare what labels properly apply to them. If you want to be a BMI 16 BBW, go right ahead. People might not accept your label (and might laugh in your face), but if it makes you happy to call yourself that, where's the harm?
agreed^ if you were anorexic (just a hypothetical scenario here), and gained 50 lbs but only weigh 150, that would be a big weight gain. You might think of yourself as a bbw, because you are a lot bigger than you were, feel beautiful, and are a woman. It might not be what we all think of as a bbw but as said before, if it makes you happy to call yourself that, wheres the harm?
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:43 AM   #45
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Hi Keb

Women Size 16 - 30 most Doctors would just call them Obese.

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I never liked other people giving me labels without my agreement, or trying to tell me I'm not something I think I am just because their definition is slightly different (though if I've got the definition obviously wrong, that's a different story).

Words are as flexible as people and I think everyone has the right to declare what labels properly apply to them. If you want to be a BMI 16 BBW, go right ahead. People might not accept your label (and might laugh in your face), but if it makes you happy to call yourself that, where's the harm?
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:45 AM   #46
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Hi Keb

Women Size 16 - 30 most Doctors would just call them Obese.

William
i think that she meant a BMI of 16. which would make you super little
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:05 AM   #47
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Yeah, I did--BMI 16 is officially "underweight". But I still don't see the harm in someone coopting BBW if it makes them feel better. The acronym doesn't become meaningless because one person uses it in a nonconformist way--the same way it isn't meaningless simply because some people believe you should have to feel Confident with a captial C about being fat to use it, while others believe you should simply be generally believed to be fat.

Like any word, its maximum value is in what it can communicate between people. I think, for most people, what it communicates is "I'm larger than average, but I'm still a pretty woman." There's still a lot of subjectivity in that, which is why I think it's okay for people to apply or reject the label as they please when it comes to themselves. It does, however, bug me when people try to demand other people use or not use labels according to their rules.

Since ther isn't a degree or some official qualfication in place for BBW, it's open territory. (And there isn't, unlike, say, the term "doctor".) It's clear some people believe there should be such qualifications to clarify things, but why?
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:26 AM   #48
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Opps! (I am multi-tasking)

Still Doctors are quick to apply the obese label to patients who are over weight.

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i think that she meant a BMI of 16. which would make you super little
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:16 PM   #49
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my bmi is 42.6 so aparently i'm pretty obese compared to "30" the bmi that classifies obesity. I would have to be 175 lbs or less to not be obese. I think I was pretty healthy when I was 175, as I feel now at 250. Screw those stupid charts!!!
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:48 PM   #50
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agreed^ if you were anorexic (just a hypothetical scenario here), and gained 50 lbs but only weigh 150, that would be a big weight gain. You might think of yourself as a bbw, because you are a lot bigger than you were, feel beautiful, and are a woman. It might not be what we all think of as a bbw but as said before, if it makes you happy to call yourself that, wheres the harm?
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Yeah, I did--BMI 16 is officially "underweight". But I still don't see the harm in someone coopting BBW if it makes them feel better. The acronym doesn't become meaningless because one person uses it in a nonconformist way--the same way it isn't meaningless simply because some people believe you should have to feel Confident with a captial C about being fat to use it, while others believe you should simply be generally believed to be fat.

Like any word, its maximum value is in what it can communicate between people. I think, for most people, what it communicates is "I'm larger than average, but I'm still a pretty woman." There's still a lot of subjectivity in that, which is why I think it's okay for people to apply or reject the label as they please when it comes to themselves. It does, however, bug me when people try to demand other people use or not use labels according to their rules.

Since ther isn't a degree or some official qualfication in place for BBW, it's open territory. (And there isn't, unlike, say, the term "doctor".) It's clear some people believe there should be such qualifications to clarify things, but why?
If a woman wants to call herself a bbw, then that's fine. I don't think anybody's arguing that. But it does beg the question, "What does it mean to be fat?" For me that answer really comes down to quality of life. At what point is your quality of life affected to the point where you have to organize your day around your physical limitations - what you can't do that thin people can? Since the world isn't designed for very fat people's bodies this means you have to come up with "life hacks" that thin people don't have to think about, and wouldn't even begin to fathom. And when trying to explain how those hacks work would only ilicit confused, blank, or disgusted looks. There is a huge difference in terms of quality of life between 150lbs and 350lbs and 550lbs.

And yes, someone who was 100lbs and becomes 150lbs will experience things in a different way. So how profound are the changes? Obviously that depends on the person's coping skills, but I feel like if someone at 150 feels the need to adopt the term bbw for themselves, something's off in our society, especially if that size is more average than not. So again, I'm left with the question, what does it mean to be fat?

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