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Old 06-21-2009, 05:07 PM   #26
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Please cite specific examples. Do you have any particular real women in mind?[/QUOTE]

The real women that I have in mind would have a self-definition beyond the male appraisal of her various body parts.
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy Necromancer View Post
Please cite specific examples. Do you have any particular real women in mind?

I am a real woman (occasionally irrational, but never imaginary - take that, √-1) and you would need to call out the saint bernards with neck-barrels to find me anywhere near the question "hi wat do u weight wat is the #?"
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:44 PM   #28
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while this website does deal with very important issues, when sexuality and a so called singles scene is thrown into the mix, critical analysis seems to be thrown out the window. it is important to own your own sexuality, I'm not anti sex or sex negative by any means, it just seems like a crazy mix and I'm not sure if it really can work in the long run. I mean hugh hefner likes to tout playboy as liberating women and being a forerunner of the sexual revolution. there seems to be similar parallels here as well. this website likes to tout the beauty of the fat form, but many of the ideas about women here are not too different from the mainstream.

I'm not attacking anyone personally, there is a lot of good here, but I feel people who try to point out some issues especially re: the treatment of women are given the old '''shut up yer being so pc'' routine.
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by katherine22 View Post
The following quote best describes what has been my experience of what it has been like to be on this site as a fat woman. I am wondering if other women have felt the same way. There seems to be a conflict between a male idolized version of fat femininity "as at once infinitely pliable (soft,plush,giving) and so-out-of-this-world larger -than-life- that women become images "goddesses" to be forced into molds of perfection that no real woman can be comfortable in." Every conversation in fat sexuality is reduced to the immature compartmentalization of various body parts analysis of a male 15 year old.

Have I missed the point of what is really going on here at Dimensions?


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Old 06-21-2009, 07:13 PM   #30
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Katherine, my advice is to weed out the bad and take what good you can from this site. It's obviously not a place where people are necessarily any more enlightened than in the general populace. I do love it here tho and find the place wonderfully subversive despite all the eye-rolling that might have to be done in order to get through a given thread.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:28 PM   #31
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The real women that I have in mind would have a self-definition beyond the male appraisal of her various body parts.
Are you referring to yourself? Certain posters?

I just have a problem because you keep speaking in hypothetical states and broad generalities.
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all we ask is that those without fetishes respect the notion that the vast majority of fetish-havers know how to reconcile their kink with the dangers of reality just as you would assume your next door neighbor is not a pedophile.
Where there's smoke, there's a smoke-making machine.

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Old 06-21-2009, 08:54 PM   #32
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Are you referring to yourself? Certain posters?

I just have a problem because you keep speaking in hypothetical states and broad generalities.
I just have a problem because you completely ignored the specific example I gave so that you could continue to poke smugly at katherine's statements. It's a wee bit confusing, you see, because I can't tell if you actually disagree with anything she's saying, or if you just have an issue with her or the way she presented it. Either way, your points would come across a lot more clearly if you responded to the several other people who are also involved in this discussion instead of latching on to minor wording issues in katherine's posts. So far all you've said is a) you think the paysite models are setting themselves up for sexual fantasies, and b) you think katherine is being unclear. Oh, and c) the smiley frequently indicates humor. What are your thoughts on the issues we've mentioned about non-paysite-model female posters receiving a high level of unsolicited sexual comments and the lack of supportive response to such complaints?
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:01 PM   #33
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You responded to that, but she still did not. I therefor don't know if you where among the people she was referring to or not.

I'm having a hard time picking out exactly what the OP is saying so I can respond to her statements.

I think it's bad that non-paysite female members are recieving a high level of unsolicited sexual comments. Who have you been addressing the complaints to, or are you just speaking about the lack of support in response to those complaints inside this thread?
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Originally Posted by exile in thighville View Post
all we ask is that those without fetishes respect the notion that the vast majority of fetish-havers know how to reconcile their kink with the dangers of reality just as you would assume your next door neighbor is not a pedophile.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:24 PM   #34
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[QUOTE=katherine22;1206617]
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Originally Posted by Green Eyed Fairy View Post
If you haven't seen a mission statement, then why do you seem to presume that the site is solely about "other people's" fantasies?

How about some people fantasizing about a a better reality?


All that goddess talk kind of reminds me of how so many rap stars used to call themselves "gangstas".
Don't believe the hype.......

Exactly my point ,GEF. Does our notion of fantasy whether thin or fat obscure the possibility of enjoying the complexity of a real woman? If Dimensions is a response to the lack of reality in portraying women in the thin world or is it just another vehicle presenting its own notion of fat fantasy. Somehow real women are getting lost in these fantasies.
Keep in mind that the guys who post on the paysite board are a self-selecting subset (gah, I think I overdid the alliteration there) of FAs, and not a representitive sample.

Or, of course, what Furious Styles said.

I'm reminded of a different take on the quote in your signature: It's not a battle between good and evil, it's a battle between signal and noise.
Wish I could remember the exact quote and its author...

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Old 06-21-2009, 09:29 PM   #35
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Ah, I see now. Thanks for clarifying your position.

I apologize, I wasn't clear there - in talking about lack of supportive response I was referring to misstoodles' statement:

Quote:
I'm not attacking anyone personally, there is a lot of good here, but I feel people who try to point out some issues especially re: the treatment of women are given the old '''shut up yer being so pc'' routine.
It's less about admin/mod support, and more about the community response, which I've seen a few places on the board when people speak up about the women here being objectified. I can try to dig up some threads for examples.

Regarding people making unsolicited sexual comments, we can deal with each individual who's doing it, but I think that's a bit of a band-aid. The actual issue seems more pervasive, in that an atmosphere has developed which makes the individuals feel like it's okay to pester women and to view them as targets for fantasies rather than as real people. Unfortunately, things as nebulous as "atmosphere" are difficult to change, but I think discussing it and making people aware of how much this really affects the women of the community is a good start.
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #36
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while this website does deal with very important issues, when sexuality and a so called singles scene is thrown into the mix, critical analysis seems to be thrown out the window. it is important to own your own sexuality, I'm not anti sex or sex negative by any means, it just seems like a crazy mix and I'm not sure if it really can work in the long run. I mean hugh hefner likes to tout playboy as liberating women and being a forerunner of the sexual revolution. there seems to be similar parallels here as well. this website likes to tout the beauty of the fat form, but many of the ideas about women here are not too different from the mainstream.

I'm not attacking anyone personally, there is a lot of good here, but I feel people who try to point out some issues especially re: the treatment of women are given the old '''shut up yer being so pc'' routine.
You said what I was trying to say. As a woman contributing to this site, I feel as if I am up against a subtle and pervasive male fat fantasy that is more about soft fat flesh preferably young than encompassing anything real or complex about women beyond flesh appeal.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Teleute View Post
I was thinking of that thread too, starwitness. And the pm's I get from guys saying "hi wat do u weight wat is the #?" I HAVE NEVER TALKED TO YOU BEFORE. I AM A PERSON, NOT A NUMBER. CHRIST.
And a cute one, at that.

What's your weight? What's the number?
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:28 AM   #38
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Katherine has finded an interesting point. However I think the truth is on the middle....i know that many guys here are fascinated from 'numbers' world...so there is a great difference beetween loving a real fat girl, or a virtual fat girl.

But it's also true that FA world is maden also by the 'fantasy' concept.
Think it's impossible being an FA without having a bit of fantasy in our mind.
I agree with Teleute....but as in the community, as in the real life there is educate people and not, you can find friends and gooda dmirers and find 'pm people' that's interested only exciting himself...that' not a nice thing.
Want to think that the community is maden principally by true Fa that respect girls!
Hope that someone has unterstood what I want to say!
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:16 AM   #39
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You said what I was trying to say. As a woman contributing to this site, I feel as if I am up against a subtle and pervasive male fat fantasy that is more about soft fat flesh preferably young than encompassing anything real or complex about women beyond flesh appeal.
Katherine, the internet has and likely always will have a disproportionate number of what I refer to as "refugees from reality". This is not at all exclusive to Dims. Selfish and self-indulgent people are, by definition, obsessed with their own needs and desires. Their vocal ego-centricity makes them seem more prevalent and pervasive than they really are (I hope). They bounce thoughtlessly around like pinballs hoping to bump into their ideal fap fodder. Just ignore them and they go away. Any attention just encourages them.

Emotionally healthy and self-aware (vs, self-absorbed) adults are more concerned with others. They're less visible in some respects but worth looking for. I think you're acquainted well enough with the darker end of the spectrum here? Take some time getting to know the rest. Please don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel for you.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:00 AM   #40
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The real women that I have in mind would have a self-definition beyond the male appraisal of her various body parts.
I'm a little confused by this post. How can I set your "self-definition"? Shouldn't a person's definition of self come from them self and not from an internet forum?

As I read this thread your asking if this forum is serves any purpose other then allowing men to express sexual fantasies about fat women? (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Well, this the Weight Board, a weight gain/feeder-ee/sexual based forum... It is by its nature more sexually focused and part of this community is "numbers" focused (which is a different issue). If a women chooses to be involved in that conversation, or any sexual conversation, that is her right, just as it is yours to ignore it.

Just as Hyde Park servers a particular audience of Dimensions so does the Weight Board. I think the the trick is to find the place that makes you the most comfortable and allow others to do the same. So if you find the conversation here disrespectful or lacking depth (and it generally is) feel free to ignore it.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:07 AM   #41
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Keep in mind that the guys who post on the paysite board are a self-selecting subset (gah, I think I overdid the alliteration there) of FAs, and not a representitive sample.
Rusty, to be fair... I don't think a person needs to post regularly on the paysite board in order to be deeply invested in his/her fantasies. In fact, I would say that fantasy (along with idealized visions of what a "real," "desirable" woman is) guides a lot of the interaction that takes place here. Look at the stories forum. Look at the Weight Board. And look also at a large percentage of threads on the Main Board. With so much talk about ideals, it's easy for an ordinary woman to feel like she's fading into the background. We're often told we're special and beautiful and worthwhile by virtue of being fat, almost to the point where it's the fat that matters, and not the person. The more a woman is willing to expose her fat body for inspection, the more attention she is likely to receive. What's more, the discourse here is so often polarizing, casting fat as a feisty antagonist to everything that is wrong with the skinny world. I'm sorry to say that this is dehumanizing and alienating, no matter which way the blubber bounces, and that it tends to "getthoize" fat in a way that is not always constructive.

This does not deny that there are many wonderful people here. Along with many of those folks, I enjoy celebrating the beauty of fat, which is so often maligned in the mainstream. But I want an ordinary life, grounded in reality. I don't want fat belittled, but I also don't need it so publicly glorified or focused on so intensely that all else falls by the wayside. It does say something about us here that we allow ourselves to be so preoccupied with protecting the pleasure (there's your shot of alliteration) we feel we've been denied in the "normal" world that we leave precious little room to celebrate the ordinary (sometimes boring) humanity of fat people... not just what makes us nifty fatties, but what makes us regular folks.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:25 AM   #42
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It does say something about us here that we allow ourselves to be so preoccupied with protecting the pleasure (there's your shot of alliteration) we feel we've been denied in the "normal" world that we leave precious little room to celebrate the ordinary (sometimes boring) humanity of fat people... not just what makes us nifty fatties, but what makes us regular folks.
Indeed.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:25 AM   #43
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One thing that might (Iím not sure) be relevant to this discussion is that it seems to me that a lot of new posters go through a phase of thinking that this is the place that theyíve always fantasized about, filled with people who share their fantasy, whatever that fantasy is. Now, there are surely people who have been here for a long time who are here totally for the fantasy aspect, but I think that a good number of the more clearly fantasizing posts come from fairly new posters. People eventually tend to either get a little more clued in, or stop posting (or maybe just post on the paysite board?).

From my perspective, while I enjoy the community here and there are lots of people here that I care about, I donít know how much Iíd keep coming around if the fat eroticism aspect of things was suddenly taken from the site. I have lots of other places in my life where I can talk politics, cute kid stories, music, and lots of other things, but this is the only place where I can explore fat eroticism, which for better or worse is something that matters to me.

Iím pretty sure that none of this is an answer for what Katherine was asking, but to be honest Iím not entirely clear on what she was asking or stating. That she is not overly happy with the site comes through, but Iím not quite sure what sort of response she hoped to get.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:48 AM   #44
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I have lots of other places in my life where I can talk politics, cute kid stories, music, and lots of other things, but this is the only place where I can explore fat eroticism, which for better or worse is something that matters to me.
Ed, do you see eroticism and "other things" as mutually exclusive?

I know I don't. Part of what I've always strived for as a fat person is to not have eroticism denied to me simply because I'm fat. Normalizing fat for me is about reclaiming eroticism and incorporating it into my life. And I'm just not sure that a Dimensions that is overwhelmingly about erotics to the exclusion of other stuff serves that goal for me. I'd clamor for a vision of what it means to be fat that covers the full spectrum of being human, sex and the rest of it.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fascinita View Post
Ed, do you see eroticism and "other things" as mutually exclusive?
Of course not. And in general all parts of who and what we are intertwine. Despite which many people, me amongst them, focus certain parts of their nature on certain times, places, or activities. I let my competitive side out when playing cards with friends and suppress it at home with wife and son. I let a lot of my nerdiness out in certain other on-line discussion groups. I get to exercise my creative side when making up stories for my son at night. And I talk about matters of fat eroticism on Dimensions (and occasionally by email or IM with people I've met through Dimensions).

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Originally Posted by Fascinita View Post
I know I don't. Part of what I've always strived for as a fat person is to not have eroticism denied to me simply because I'm fat. Normalizing fat for me is about reclaiming eroticism and incorporating it into my life. And I'm just not sure that a Dimensions that is overwhelmingly about erotics to the exclusion of other stuff serves that goal for me. I'd clamor for a vision of what it means to be fat that covers the full spectrum of being human, sex and the rest of it.
There are sites on-line that almost solely about fat eroticism. I don't take part in them (although I have poked around one of them). Neither do a lot of other people, based on membership levels, forum posting levels, and so on.

I'm certainly not looking for Dimensions to be all about fat eroticism, I was just saying that for me fat eroticism is an important component of Dimensions, and that for me it would be far less interesting without that component.

For you it may be very different. It is possible, and even likely, that what we want most from Dimensions is not the same thing. That will be the case for any place that is largely community defined, that it will be pulled in all sorts of different directions. When that works well, the tension between those pulls makes a place fascinating, broad in scope, and strong. When that doesn't work you end up with mini civil wars or simple collapse. Or, I suppose, you end up with in-between results, where you have places that function, but which don't have much dynamic tension, which are smaller and more narrow in intent.

I encourage you to pull towards what you want, it is the only way to stretch things in that direction. I don't promise to pull in the same direction, however
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:30 PM   #46
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I'm certainly not looking for Dimensions to be all about fat eroticism, I was just saying that for me fat eroticism is an important component of Dimensions, and that for me it would be far less interesting without that component.
I think the gist of it is, would you find it a more interesting place if other aspects of what it means to be fat were more integral to Dimensions. When fat eroticism is increasingly isolated from other aspects of fat humanity, there is less and less room for the kind of vibrant fat community you describe to grow, less room for a dialogue that includes different voices. It's kind of a spiraling thing.

Encouraging me to pull toward what I want is like encouraging the Pope to be Catholic, for the record.

Thanks for your input, Ed.
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #47
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Seeing how Dimensions was not founded as a place for fat people to exchange recipes, the erotic/sexual element will never be erased...nor should it be erased.

What many fat women here are expressing is that there should be more for those of us who are not here to post pictures all the time, or to open a paysite, and for those who do participate in those things.

It's not as if Dims does not have the forums that are anything but about sex. This tells me that Dimensions DOES want to be ( or at least claims ) a full service salon for fat people and admirers, and that fat women are more than bait. The one group that still has no place, and can get the feeling of not being more than belly/butt/boobs...bbw's. Yes, I am saying, once again, that it is imperative that fat women have an official place to talk about being...us...normal...us, and not be ripped into for not being smiling fantasies, 24/7. We can then participate in things like the erotic part of our beings ( if we choose ) in a way that feels healthy, and do it on our terms, with the strength and knowledge that we are officially thought of as more than just parts. I think a lot of the unrest comes from...the missing pieces of the puzzle. How can those looking for a more complete experience and exchange, not feel like " what the hell? ".
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #48
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The following quote best describes what has been my experience of what it has been like to be on this site as a fat woman. I am wondering if other women have felt the same way. There seems to be a conflict between a male idolized version of fat femininity "as at once infinitely pliable (soft,plush,giving) and so-out-of-this-world larger -than-life- that women become images "goddesses" to be forced into molds of perfection that no real woman can be comfortable in." Every conversation in fat sexuality is reduced to the immature compartmentalization of various body parts analysis of a male 15 year old.

Have I missed the point of what is really going on here at Dimensions?


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Old 06-22-2009, 02:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mossystate View Post
The one group that still has no place, and can get the feeling of not being more than belly/butt/boobs...bbw's. Yes, I am saying, once again, that it is imperative that fat women have an official place to talk about being...us...normal...us, and not be ripped into for not being smiling fantasies, 24/7. We can then participate in things like the erotic part of our beings ( if we choose ) in a way that feels healthy, and do it on our terms, with the strength and knowledge that we are officially thought of as more than just parts. I think a lot of the unrest comes from...the missing pieces of the puzzle. How can those looking for a more complete experience and exchange, not feel like " what the hell? ".
Eloquently put....and I'm out of rep, darn it!

Nothing I can think of in response, other than that I hope you get that place, and that it turns out to be the missing piece.
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:25 PM   #50
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the scolds do the shouting
Yes, you do.

That makes you a feminist, right?
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