Dim Bash Thread - In the Middle

[Duniwin]

We wanted to bring the topics we discussed in the bash workshops back to the Dimensions community for further discussion. A full list of the workshops is <<here>>, but this thread is for discussion based on the
In the Middle workshop specifically.

Use this thread to continue the discussion, give feedback, or bring up more topics you’d like to see covered in the future.

In the Middle
Leader: OneWickedAngel (Raivienne)
Ever feel like you’re too big for mainstream society but not big enough for the fat-loving world? If so, this group’s for you. We’ll talk about dealing with that in-between feeling, handling rude suggestions for “improvement” from both directions, and claiming our place in the fat community.

[ashmamma84]

I would have loved to sit in on this discussion. I think it might have been really beneficial for me.

Being an in-betweeny and hearing people misguided opinions kinda gets old. It would have been nice to feel a kindred with others.

[toni]

You didn't miss much. This is the picture I took while waiting for someone to come in. There was some sort of mix up and the workshop was over looked.

After about 10-15 minutes of me sitting alone (no leader) a couple of people came strolling in but nothing on topic was discussed.

I looked forward to this work shop the most and was very disappointed. Those of us in the middle rarely get a chance to discuss how we feel. I thought this would be the perfect chance.

[ashmamma84]

You're right. Alot of times we don't get to discuss how we feel or if we do, what is said might be taken out of context/the wrong way. Or worse, overlooked. Maybe next year more in-betweeny's will show up and we can bond.

And that pic -- wow. I'm shocked.

[Eclectic_Girl]

Yeah, I'm sorry about that, Toni. The person who was slated to lead the workshop backed out of attending a couple of weeks before the bash and the person I asked to replace her forgot/got confused with the timing.

My hope is that next year (and it *will* be scheduled again next year), there will be more folks to attend and get a really good discussion going. And I'll make sure that there's someone in the room to greet people and steer conversation, even if it's only me.

[Duniwin]

Feel free to use this thread to talk about what you would've liked to see discussed this year, and what you would like to see covered next year.

And now, I'm leaving the thread...

[Filly]

I didn't go to the bash, however it's disappointing that this workshop wasn't as well organised as it it could have been.

I went to the NJ bash a few months ago, and overheard some people comment that I shouldn't have gone as I was not big enough. Comments like that really hurt, as I am very much a fat person! And where I'm from, I am really on the upper extreme weight/body size wise.

Anyway, I can't think of any possible future discussion topics at the moment, however I will have a think about it. At the very least, it's comforting to see that this issue was considered when deciding on workshop concepts.

[moore2me]

Originally Posted by toni

You didn't miss much. This is the picture I took while waiting for someone to come in. There was some sort of mix up and the workshop was over looked.

After about 10-15 minutes of me sitting alone (no leader) a couple of people came strolling in but nothing on topic was discussed.

I looked forward to this work shop the most and was very disappointed. Those of us in the middle rarely get a chance to discuss how we feel. I thought this would be the perfect chance.

Toni,

I know exactly how you feel.

My boss volunteered me to speak at a weekend meeting once that required me to drive 3 hours one way, show up early Saturday morning so I had to spend Friday night. I spent at least a day preparing my subject material too.

On the day of the class, it was like the DIMS BASH in that folks could select what seminar they wanted to attend. I had exactly the same thing happen as you did, except the assigned speaker (me) did show up. I was the only one in the classroom for several hours.

[LillyBBBW]

My sister is a smallish BBW. I invited her years ago to come along with me to a Heavenly Bodies event in MA. I thought maybe a night out without pressure would do her good. Unbeknownst to me some chicks sidled up to her and made catty comments about her presence there. Said she wasn't all that big and bla bla bla. This hurt her so badly and made her so uncomfortable she never came back.

I noticed that this event leaned heavily towards SSBBWs. My general observation was that SSBBWs were the predominant attendees of the event and lots of other control groups were either underrepresented or not present at all.

[kayrae]

Oh geez... this does not encourage me to attend any of the bashes. I am not into that kind of behavior.

[fatgirlflyin]

Originally Posted by kayrae

Oh geez... this does not encourage me to attend any of the bashes. I am not into that kind of behavior.

For what its worth I didn't see any type of that behavior happening at the Dims bash. Yes, there were far more supersized women there than not, but there were smaller women there too and I didn't see anyone saying anything negative or giving dirty looks.

As far as the workshop, things happen. Putting together an event of this magnitude is a great deal of work and the whole bash crew worked tirelessly to keep things going and to keep people happy. So I try to be a bit forgiving of one thing falling through the cracks. I for one wanted to attend the workshop but forgot and spent the afternoon floating in the pool. I'd venture to guess that the same thing happened to other people as well.

[LillyBBBW]

Now I know I'm going to rub some people the wrong way with my opinion but I have a lack of sympathy for how this thing unfolded. What happened with the midsized forum was unfortunate and I feel badly for Toni's sake. Wish it would have gone better but as you can see by the photo Toni provided it didn't, and it wouldn't have because nobody came. It was doomed from the begining and it's success or failure lay entirely at the feet of those who COULD have come but instead they farted around at home waiting to see what everyone else was going to do. Only ONE person was invested enough to even show up hence only one voice to speak out. Kudos to you Toni for taking a stand. I hope you plan on coming again next year and hopefully you wont be the only person sitting there in that room to tell the tale. I feel so badly that you were left hanging like that and as your friend I wish I could have been there but my offerings would have been antithesis so there is not much I can do.

This is a general observation about the bash as a whole and not just this event in particular. In the case of some of these events that were underrepresented I can't play along with what seems to be an attempt by some to lay blame at the feet of someone other than themselves. The planners did everything but go to the workshops for you. Their presence wouldn't have done a damned thing. If you want this thing to work and you want your issues discussed you have to get up off your ass and bring them to the table. YOU make sure this doesn't happen again.

[fatgirlflyin]

I agree Lilly. If you didn't go you can't really be bothered to complain about what did or didn't happen. I missed this workshop, I also missed the GLBTQ workshop. I had intended to go to both but the pool just sucked me in.

Maybe next year there will be more people interested in attending both, if not then the organizers will just have to tailor their workshops for where the interests of the people attending are focused. After all these are the kinds of things that happen when you're doing a first time event. Its a little bit trial and error til you find just the right combination.

Originally Posted by LillyBBBW

Now I know I'm going to rub some people the wrong way with my opinion but I have a lack of sympathy for how this thing unfolded. What happened with the midsized forum was unfortunate and I feel badly for Toni's sake. Wish it would have gone better but as you can see by the photo Toni provided it didn't, and it wouldn't have because nobody came. It was doomed from the begining and it's success or failure lay entirely at the feet of those who COULD have come but instead they farted around at home waiting to see what everyone else was going to do. Only ONE person was invested enough to even show up hence only one voice to speak out. Kudos to you Toni for taking a stand. I hope you plan on coming again next year and hopefully you wont be the only person sitting there in that room to tell the tale. I feel so badly that you were left hanging like that and as your friend I wish I could have been there but my offerings would have been antithesis so there is not much I can do.

This is a general observation about the bash as a whole and not just this event in particular. In the case of some of these events that were underrepresented I can't play along with what seems to be an attempt by some to lay blame at the feet of someone other than themselves. The planners did everything but go to the workshops for you. Their presence wouldn't have done a damned thing. If you want this thing to work and you want your issues discussed you have to get up off your ass and bring them to the table. YOU make sure this doesn't happen again.

Part of one of my former jobs for 16 years was meeting planning/organization. This may not work for an event of this size or subject matter, but, when we would have a large meeting with many break-out workshops, we would list the workshops on the mail-off panel of the registration brochure [I left that field shortly after things started going electronic] and ask registrants to mark (workshop groups being divided up by day, half-day, whatever) their first, second, third, etc. choice for each section. Usually the smaller breakout rooms would fit X number of people, so those who registered first would have first choice. Once a particular workshop reached maximum seating, the subsequent registrants would be assigned their second choice, and so on. In our registration acknowledgment letter we would notify the registrant of their assigned workshops. By using this method, we could always keep track of how many were expected at what break-out session (sometimes canceling those that seemed would be sparsely attended). Most large meetings I've attended (upwards of 1000 people) would have a workshop registrant list posted on the door of the workshop room or have assigned staff outside the door to check participants off as they entered. When we planned meetings we would make last-minute reassignments for changes/cancellations/no-shows/on-site registration if space allowed.

[LillyBBBW]

Originally Posted by saucywench

Part of one of my former jobs for 16 years was meeting planning/organization. This may not work for an event of this size or subject matter, but, when we would have a large meeting with many break-out workshops, we would list the workshops on the mail-off panel of the registration brochure [I left that field shortly after things started going electronic] and ask registrants to mark (workshop groups being divided up by day, half-day, whatever) their first, second, third, etc. choice for each section. Usually the smaller breakout rooms would fit X number of people, so those who registered first would have first choice. Once a particular workshop reached maximum seating, the subsequent registrants would be assigned their second choice, and so on. In our registration acknowledgment letter we would notify the registrant of their assigned workshops. By using this method, we could always keep track of how many were expected at what break-out session (sometimes canceling those that seemed would be sparsely attended). Most large meetings I've attended (upwards of 1000 people) would have a workshop registrant list posted on the door of the workshop room or have assigned staff outside the door to check participants off as they entered. When we planned meetings we would make last-minute reassignments for changes/cancellations/no-shows/on-site registration if space allowed.

That's a great idea saucy. The only problem I find with this solution is that there is a lot of intensive work involved in this behind the scenes reworking. For you it was your job but the people involved with this are volunteers and not being paid for their services. They might receive a chunk off their fees and a free lunch here and there for their efforts but somewhere in between all of their work they have to be allowed to participate and enjoy some benefits of the bash that they are paying for also. I don't know of any of the bashes that have these kinds of record taking methods in place. None that I've been to anyway. All the no-shows and late stragglers who are in and out of the door of every worshop I've attended would make record keeping a full time job.

In advance of the bash some of us discussed getting together on Friday and going out for seafood. We had the place all picked out and were content with the choice but a few voiced concern about the restaurant. It's a chain, the food isn't good, the seating sucks, I don't like it, bla bla bla. So to make everybody happy we changed it and decided on another place much farther away. When the moment of truth came we waited and waited and waited around. Of those who complained the loudest, not one of them even showed up. We finally went on by ourselves and the food was excellent. But it's just a small sampling of how wishy washy people can be. The volunteers who help make these events work already give so much of their time and experience to these events. For something in which we all have a stake to some degree I think we should be able to police ourselves and not overwork the people who are operating in good faith. It's good that these things happened and that this dialogue exists to help make next year run smoother.

[Punkin1024]

Can this question be addressed next year:

"How do you know if you're an in-betweener?"

I'm 4' 11-1/2" tall and weigh 275ish. I order size 4X from Woman Within, or WP size 34/36 - depending on fabric and cut of the garment. I carry most of my weight in around my belly. So what category of BBW am I?

I totally intend to be in Orlando for the Bash 2010 - so this is of interest to me.

[Wild Zero]

Originally Posted by Ella Bella

I missed this workshop, I also missed the GLBTQ workshop. I had intended to go to both but the pool just sucked me in.

Reminded me of this

[LillyBBBW]

Originally Posted by Punkin1024

Can this question be addressed next year:

"How do you know if you're an in-betweener?"

I'm 4' 11-1/2" tall and weigh 275ish. I order size 4X from Woman Within, or WP size 34/36 - depending on fabric and cut of the garment. I carry most of my weight in around my belly. So what category of BBW am I?

I totally intend to be in Orlando for the Bash 2010 - so this is of interest to me.

This is solely my opinion and not an established concept but I feel if you even need to ask this question you are an in betweener.

[ashmamma84]

Originally Posted by LillyBBBW

My sister is a smallish BBW. I invited her years ago to come along with me to a Heavenly Bodies event in MA. I thought maybe a night out without pressure would do her good. Unbeknownst to me some chicks sidled up to her and made catty comments about her presence there. Said she wasn't all that big and bla bla bla. This hurt her so badly and made her so uncomfortable she never came back.

I noticed that this event leaned heavily towards SSBBWs. My general observation was that SSBBWs were the predominant attendees of the event and lots of other control groups were either underrepresented or not present at all.

That's sad to me. I think sometimes women can be so cruel to each other. Instead of just enjoying a night out, why spend energy trying to cut another woman down? I really think it boils down to insecurity and I don't think size has anything to do with it. Those women probably didn't feel very good about themselves so it was fitting they tried to take their issues out on your sister. I always say hating is bad for one's health.

Maybe one day she'll be comfortable enough to attend another bash. I think its probably a good thing for all ranges of fat women to experience.

[Eclectic_Girl]

Originally Posted by saucywench

Part of one of my former jobs for 16 years was meeting planning/organization. This may not work for an event of this size or subject matter, but, when we would have a large meeting with many break-out workshops, we would list the workshops on the mail-off panel of the registration brochure [I left that field shortly after things started going electronic] and ask registrants to mark (workshop groups being divided up by day, half-day, whatever) their first, second, third, etc. choice for each section. Usually the smaller breakout rooms would fit X number of people, so those who registered first would have first choice. Once a particular workshop reached maximum seating, the subsequent registrants would be assigned their second choice, and so on. In our registration acknowledgment letter we would notify the registrant of their assigned workshops. By using this method, we could always keep track of how many were expected at what break-out session (sometimes canceling those that seemed would be sparsely attended). Most large meetings I've attended (upwards of 1000 people) would have a workshop registrant list posted on the door of the workshop room or have assigned staff outside the door to check participants off as they entered. When we planned meetings we would make last-minute reassignments for changes/cancellations/no-shows/on-site registration if space allowed.

Yeah, I don't have that kind of time.

Also, even though they're called "workshops", they are more informal than that. Most people decide on the spur of the moment whether to attend a scheduled group discussion - depending on mood, interest, and the lure of the pool or hanging out with friends. I kinda like it that way: this is vacation, not professional conference. If the pool is where you want to be, that's where you should be.

When I put the schedule together, I went through the boards to try and represent every major facet of Dims. I had no idea which of those facets would actually be represented in person or if anyone at all would show up to anything. (Scary!) Next year I intend to continue scheduling the workshops that were underrepresented this year, but Lilly and Ella are right: eventually that empty room will get used for something that the people attending demonstrably support.

Lilly - I hate that that happened to your sister. Something about the social/competitive aspect of the club scene (regardless of the size it caters to) fosters that kind of bitchiness. Those women sound insecure and unhappy. It makes me all the more pleased that there was none of that kind of crap at the Bash.

Punkin (other Ella!) - I'd say that if you probably are an in-betweener. Certainly, no one will turn you away from any group, regardless!

[AnnMarie]

And since that casts HB in a potentially bad light, I'd like to be clear that most of our attendees would be considered very mid-large sized, and no where near super anymore. Heather, myself, Ash/Soup are routinely the largest women there by far.

The actions of a few should not reflect the attitude of the event - all are welcome - just as with the Dims bash. We ended up with a very large contigent of supersized women - which was great, we're glad there was appeal and ease of knowing we'd be keeping you in mind, but this bash is for EVERYONE. Anyone who says different is not speaking for the organizers.

[LillyBBBW]

Originally Posted by ashmamma84

That's sad to me. I think sometimes women can be so cruel to each other. Instead of just enjoying a night out, why spend energy trying to cut another woman down? I really think it boils down to insecurity and I don't think size has anything to do with it. Those women probably didn't feel very good about themselves so it was fitting they tried to take their issues out on your sister. I always say hating is bad for one's health.

Maybe one day she'll be comfortable enough to attend another bash. I think its probably a good thing for all ranges of fat women to experience.

Originally Posted by Eclectic_Girl

Yeah, I don't have that kind of time.

Also, even though they're called "workshops", they are more informal than that. Most people decide on the spur of the moment whether to attend a scheduled group discussion - depending on mood, interest, and the lure of the pool or hanging out with friends. I kinda like it that way: this is vacation, not professional conference. If the pool is where you want to be, that's where you should be.

When I put the schedule together, I went through the boards to try and represent every major facet of Dims. I had no idea which of those facets would actually be represented in person or if anyone at all would show up to anything. (Scary!) Next year I intend to continue scheduling the workshops that were underrepresented this year, but Lilly and Ella are right: eventually that empty room will get used for something that the people attending demonstrably support.

Lilly - I hate that that happened to your sister. Something about the social/competitive aspect of the club scene (regardless of the size it caters to) fosters that kind of bitchiness. Those women sound insecure and unhappy. It makes me all the more pleased that there was none of that kind of crap at the Bash.

Punkin (other Ella!) - I'd say that if you probably are an in-betweener. Certainly, no one will turn you away from any group, regardless!

Thanks ladies. Whoever said that to my sister are probably the same Frick & Frack who've said it to some other midsized bbws that I've heard from who've felt the same vibe at random times. All it takes is one or two. My sister has since had a baby and is in to motherhood now, still trying to find her place in this world. Too fat to fit in over there, too small to feel at ease in over the other place, etc. I've prodded her with everything but hot pokers trying to motivate her to stake her claim but I think for her it gets to the point where you try so long and so hard that you get tired of having to chop your way along through everything all the time. It would be nice to see some determined churley surely people unify and start hammering out some common ground. I've been at that place myself. Now that I'm larger I look at those times and want to kick myself. I had so much going for me. If I knew then what I know now I would have become pro active much earlier. I'm really routing for this midsized community to take shape.

[Laura2008]

I just now caught this thread. I went to the In the Middle meeting only to find it empty too. I mingled a bit then went back 10 minutes later but it was still empty. I just figured there wasn't enough people interested.

I want to say that I never once felt any animosity from anyone for not being super sized. Everyone was so nice and friendly. Yes there were more SSBBW's than smaller BBW's but I never noticed any negative attitudes from anyone.

[LillyBBBW]

Originally Posted by Laura2008

I just now caught this thread. I went to the In the Middle meeting only to find it empty too. I mingled a bit then went back 10 minutes later but it was still empty. I just figured there wasn't enough people interested.

I want to say that I never once felt any animosity from anyone for not being super sized. Everyone was so nice and friendly. Yes there were more SSBBW's than smaller BBW's but I never noticed any negative attitudes from anyone.

Thanks for saying that Laura. It was fantastic meeting you, for the fleeting few seconds we stood still long enough to smile in each other's faces. I'm happy to hear that your experiences were good. I seriously don't go to these things pinch measuring people to see who should go where and whatnot. It's always disappointing to hear that somewhere among us is a mole who poisons the thing. I don't think we can ever go anywhere to escape ignorant people for long. We have to encourage each other to stand against such craven attitudes. I had so much fun with everyone who was there. I'd hate to hear that anyone felt squeezed out enough not to return. It's good that we don't have them among us but we have to speak up and make sure that kind of thing never finds a safe haven at our events on either side.

[Weeze]

I'm not really bash-savvy, obviously, but I did a few hours at Jersey this past spring and um, I felt totally comfortable. I didn't think anyone was judging me for being smaller, for the most part.

But.. to be on topic here, I've said it time and time again... It pisses me off when people within this community call me "skinny". I'm 5'7 and jump around the 300 mark. So what. I'm "skinny"? Are you kidding me? Fine. I'm not THAT big, but um ok, then what am I supposed to do, exactly?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm too big for the "real world" and too small for.. here.