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Old 07-09-2009, 06:34 PM   #51
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Let me explain. I wrote that paper when I was a sophomore in high school. While he didn't explicitly say this, it was my teacher's view that the reparations and redress that Japanese Americans received ($20k for each surviving detainee) was unfair to African Americans who never received the "40 acres and a mule" that the US government promised the newly freed slaves. He basically wanted me to write a paper arguing that slavery was more horrible than internment. I wrote my paper from the viewpoint that the two injustices cannot be compared.

The F was harsh. I was the best student in that class with the highest earned grade. He was an athletic coach and gave my classmates unlimited extra credit for going to his games. I never got extra credit because I had music lessons that conflicted with his schedule.

I'm not going to lie. I was an arrogant academic student at the time and I didn't value my GPA because it was my viewpoint that grades were not an accurate measurement of someone's intelligence. I rewrote that paper and gave him the bullshit thesis that he really wanted, but I've always felt horrible for writing a paper from a standpoint that I didn't believe. I got an A for that piece of shit paper.

That teacher was incompetent and an asshole. He also disliked me because I was the only student to advance to AP English. When my name was announced in class, he asked me to respond honestly: Did I learn anything in his class to help me get into AP English? Like I said, I was an arrogant little biznatch and he asked me to be honest. I said no because it was the truth. I never filed a grievance against him, because I was just a kid and I didn't know any better.

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Originally Posted by ashy1 View Post
I don’t think it should be assumed the teacher was wrong or incompetent because students complained. The F was harsh but I understand the reason that grade was given. If you did not take a stand on those issues, what would you have argued in the body of the paper?
But to tie this explanation to the actual InBetweenie topic, my suffering as a midsize fatty is incomparable to the suffering of a larger fatty. They are different and neither one should be invalidated. Luckily, I have personally met many different sized women on Dimensions who treat me with the equal respect I give them.

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Old 07-09-2009, 08:01 PM   #52
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Ever felt like you were too fat for the skinnies and too skinny for the fatties? Quite the conundrum, eh? Well let's discuss how we can learn to tune out those conflicting/maddening messages and be comfortable in our smaller or midsize bodies. How do you respond to hurtful comments from either side? And also, what do you think smaller and midsize women can do to strengthen relationships with other women (ssbbw, specifically)? What do you think we can work on? What do you think we can learn?

Come one, come all! I know other midsize sisters are in the lurk - don't be afraid...we don't bite. Much .

I have had nasty comments from both sides..The skinnies were always laughing and pointing out how big my what ever body part was..They would make snide comments about Omar the Tent maker,hell even my own family did that..Then I would meet another BBW that might be a tad bit bigger then me and I would complain about clothing or how I was treated and she would tell me that I was getting off easy.....I never understood that...I got called all the same names she did and got all of the same snide comments from men and women alike over my size..

Bigger women need to understand that even if we aren't SS we still get the snide comments and the stares..We are treated like we have a catching disease as well..Just because we do not weigh 300 + does not mean it is not happening to us as well..People stare at us to see if we can sit in a chair without breaking it,if we can climb a flight of stairs without being so winded,watch us to see if we waddle..They try to humiliate us as much as the bigger women..

To end this I think we all need to understand as women no matter our size,race,nationality we are all still being treated as second class people..As subservient and our opinions and concerns should not matter..I grew up in the 70's and saw how hard women struggled to be treated as an equal and I think some of the younger women forget that the way they are treated now is not a given..It was fought for long and hard and we have to stay united and diligent to keep it that way no matter our size,social standing,race or nationality..
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:05 PM   #53
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I consider myself a full blown BBW, but alot of people tell me i am in in betweenie,.. at 5'7 300lbs ,.. to me thats a bbw, it just happens i "carry it well" OMFG LOL
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:09 PM   #54
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I consider myself a full blown BBW, but alot of people tell me i am in in betweenie,.. at 5'7 300lbs ,.. to me thats a bbw, it just happens i "carry it well" OMFG LOL

Ok Barb, not picking on you here but that phrase "carry it well" is the kind of phrase that adds to the whole its ok if you're fat but not too fat idea.

Its ok if you're 400 pounds so long as you "carry it well" and don't look like you're 400 pounds. See what I'm saying?
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:10 PM   #55
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Ok Barb, not picking on you here but that phrase "carry it well" is the kind of phrase that adds to the whole its ok if you're fat but not too fat idea.

Its ok if you're 400 pounds so long as you "carry it well" and don't look like you're 400 pounds. See what I'm saying?
i def see what you are saying!! I agree completely!!
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:17 PM   #56
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It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.
I call bullshit on the apple women can't conceive and bear children tripe..I have small hips for my size but have had 2 children natural and had no problems pushing them little sucker( I mean angels out) and my hips went back..

I am an apple and have been most of my life..I don't have enormous boobs,42 D is small compared to some,my hips are not wide at all but my ass is big and bubbled..I personally see nothing wrong with an apple,just means we have soft bellies for men to lay their heads!!

I understand where you are coming from GEF,it does hurt and I at times wish I was smaller,back to where I was when I was 23..
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:19 PM   #57
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I am an In Betweenie!

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Old 07-10-2009, 06:00 AM   #58
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I feel this way, too. You come to the place where "big is beautiful" except if you're not XYZ big, not a certain shape or gain weight exactly where someone demands it, it's quite hurtful. If you cannot get support here- then it's probably never coming. Period.
It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.
Oh, I loved this! I havent felt brave enough to air my dissatisfaction on the whole 'if you not a pear you not hot' bit. I'm definitely not a pear - I'm also boobier than I am tummy, but before joining Dims and FF I thought my ass was just fine - fabulous to be exact LOL! Now, I confess, there are times I look at my poor little bottom and find it lacking . And I'm not ok with that because it means I still base, to some extent, what I find beautiful on the opinions of random men! From the internet nogal!! That really bothers me...
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:24 AM   #59
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You know, I thought in-between was when you were too fat to be thin, but not fat enough to be considered really fat by some. There seem to be differering opinions so far about what exactly counts as inbetween. Would anyone care to take a stab at a definition or is a definition difficult to define? Would it come down to a certain size or just certain experiences?
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:07 AM   #60
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Personally I think an in-between is someone that weighs over 170lbs but under 350 lbs..To fat to be considered skinny and to small to be considered SS..JMO
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:11 AM   #61
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well IRL, I am considered FAT, by no means an in betweenie, but its different here on DIMS. IMO. I go with just FAT , not an in betweenie for me.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:46 AM   #62
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You know, I thought in-between was when you were too fat to be thin, but not fat enough to be considered really fat by some. There seem to be differering opinions so far about what exactly counts as inbetween. Would anyone care to take a stab at a definition or is a definition difficult to define? Would it come down to a certain size or just certain experiences?
I guess its never really been about a specific size so to speak, as much as it has certain experiences. I mean, truth be told, I have friends that are much bigger than me at 300+, but to a 600lb person they might not seem "as fat". So, maybe it's a perspective thing. That's why sometimes its maddening to read about how folks think 250lbs is soooo thin; well yeah, I guess in Dims world it is, but NOWHERE outside of this community is it thought of as such. That's where alot of the disconnect comes in (at least for me).

In terms of my body - yes, I am definitely too fat to be considered thin, but I'm not fat enough to be really fat. I think that "in between" has a range just like SS or what have you; the way we carry weight, our height, etc all play a part I think. But really, to keep it simple - if you think you're an in betweeny, you are one.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:56 AM   #63
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I guess I'm another inbetweenie. I've always felt out of place here, as I'm "small" by the standards here, and have been told I wasn't fat enough to be here. But yet, was still considered hugely fat by the rest of the world.

I've learned to love my body, and learned to love the things it can do. And I've also felt out of place here because I think its ok to want to (and TO) lose weight - and that just because you do, doesn't mean you are betraying the fat community or only doing it to conform to what society perceives as beautiful.

And yeah, I hate being told that I "carry my weight well" by people, and there was no way I could be 290 lbs, because I didn't look it. Well I was. And statements like that made me feel like crap - that since I didn't look 290, I was moderately ok. But if I looked like I weighed it, then I'd be crap.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:08 AM   #64
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if you think you're an in betweeny, you are one.
Totally. I don't see much purpose in bogarting the label for the exclusive use of one, precisely defined group - we gain much in drawing in as many "in between" experiences as possible.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:10 AM   #65
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...........

Jesus H.
How can you even compare the two? They are both awful things in their own way (with some shared ground). I take a staunch position that you cannot compare suffering, because none of it is the same, even down to how it affects each individual. That teacher sounds awful.
I personally suffered more when I was a smaller bbw than I do now. It seemed the pressure to lose weight and be smaller was much more intense then. There's a biblical saying about "snatching someone from the fire" when they are headed in the wrong direction. I attribute this new liberty to my larger size. People before may have felt their comments would be helpful to push me towards losing weight when I was smaller where as now at over 400 I'm considered charred beyond recognition and therefore not worth the effort or scalding hand burns. I kind of wish I hadn't gone along so easily and scalded some more hands when I was smaller. The truth is I always believed I was a sandwhich or two away from a size 8 myself so I had no desire to stick up for myself as I was, a fat woman. I always felt I was a thin woman in disguise so I didn't fight for being.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:19 AM   #66
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I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista. In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:24 AM   #67
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I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista. In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."
ok I am def not an inbetweenie!! LMAO
great info Kayrae!!
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:41 AM   #68
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I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista. In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."
I'm a fan of the Fats as well. I'd be curious to know how many of those women on the site are above a size 24 though...that might have something to do with their stance on inbetweenies. And it can be confusing to think you're a full fledged fat girl there because you're a size 18/20; only to visit Dims and find that you're a "light weight". Heh.
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:56 PM   #69
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Fatshionista & Dims are the only fat related sites I've bookmarked (along with some fatshion blogs.) I think they fulfill each other =)
When I get tired of Fatshionista's sometimes over the top (imo) political correctness, I head over to "peeing in bed sessions" at dims so I can breathe freely again

I'm a pretty traditional inbetweenie. A size 16/18 may sound "skinny" to some, but you really have to set it into perspective. I know I'm repeating myself (again? lol), but I'm really not kidding when I say I have no (IRL) friends that are even close to my size. I know of maybe a couple, but they're not people I usually hang out with. (and they're still not as big as I am.)
Everyone in my family weigh less than me, yeah we have some chub there, but I still beat the fattest uncle with about 15 pounds or so. (He recently told me what he weighed, thank you very much:P)
The clothing options sucks in my part of the world. The US really is a plus size shopping heaven, I know you don't exactly feel the same way, but it reaaally is compared to the rest of the worlds options. (At least if you're in the 16-26 range. If you're anything over that, it sounds like it's difficult no matter where you're located. sigh.)

Most regular shops only go up to a 14/large or 16/xl at max. People are always asking me- ohhh I like your new x, y or z, where did you get that? That MUST be ebay, right?

They're usually correct about that.

Why? Because I want a poplin dress, I want skinny jeans, I even want a sequined vest and a leotard gawd damnit.
That is basically impossible to get anywhere near a size 18 unless you go online. (Or as I sometimes do- try/buy stuff that end up looking alright, even if it wasn't originally made for a girl my size.)

This is some of the reasons why I stand out, even if i'm not a ssbbw. I think it's great that people realizes that ones fat experience is not automatically easier just because you weigh less!

I get sad when I hear bbws and ssbbw bitching on each others looks. That's just a ridiculous waste of energy... especially if you're part of a size acceptance community. Talk about peeing in your own pool
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:04 PM   #70
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Great topic Ash.

It's weird as I think I have encountered more bitchiness in the 'BBW' community than with my 'normal'* friends. For example when at a BBW night I am more likely to receive some sort of catty comment compared to being at a everyday club. I see it like this, with my skinny friends I am invisible, a sort of 'non-threat'** to anyone but at a BBW night the claws come out, I can see people sizing me up and commenting about my shape/size behind my back and to my face.


So yes, I do feel that I sort of fall in the 'inbetweeny' catagory. Too fat to be taken seriously in 'real life' too thin to be a stand out in the BBW scene. The point is though that I don't actually mind, I sort of really like floating between these two worlds and trying to understand the people and myself along the journey.

I have never been fatter than I am now and I have never been thin, ever. I don't know where I'll end up but that doesn't matter; as I get older I have discovered more self acceptance then when I was a smaller teenager (back when I felt horrendous) but now I sort of forget my size most of the time. It's only when I encounter a health issue that I fear may be weight related or receive a snide comment from someone that I'm reminded. This happened the other day actually, I was at a car boot sale flogging off some old bits and bobs when an elderly gentleman came and asked me about a mini DVD player I was selling. He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust. I forget how other people see me and sometimes it hurts like hell to be reminded but thankfully the pain is fleeting as I have so many positive experiences to balance it all out.


Jeebus, what was I supposed to saying ah yes, over 200lb under 300lb, inbetweeny for sure.








* you know what I mean !

** I'm totally not a 'non-threat' but I like the look on the skinny minnies faces when they realise I'm not

Last edited by Red; 07-10-2009 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:26 PM   #71
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He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust

That old guy sucks. I hope he has an unpleasant breakfast tomorrow.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:39 PM   #72
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What do you think might make you feel better about it? Like, if you could change any of the factors involved in your feeling like this, what would you change?
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Originally Posted by StarWitness View Post
Honestly... I don't know what would make me feel better. (Women! Amirite, guys?)

I don't think the "Thick-waisted chicks with small breasts and okay asses appreciation thread" would do it, because that would make me feel fetishized, and I don't like that either. Shit, if I even believed anyone who posted in that thread. I don't want someone to be attracted to me in spite of my body, but I have trouble deprogramming myself to the point where I believe that someone actually would be attracted to my body. That was actually a major issue in my last relationship (I mean, it wasn't as simple as me having low self-esteem, but it certainly didn't help matters).

And it's a little glib to say that I'd want to be confident in myself all the time and not care what anyone else thinks. I mean, self-confidence is something I've been working on for quite some time (so long, in fact, that I can't bring myself to use it as an answer to questions along this line without rolling my eyes), but I don't know that changing myself, even for the better, is going to change how I feel about this issue.

I guess... hm... if I could jump in a rocketship and go live on StarWitness' Ideal Planet where there isn't a long and pervasive history of women's worth being reduced to physical attractiveness? And in that rocketship I undergo brain surgery that removes all the painful and negative associations I have with my body? That would help.
I actually made some threads in an attempt to offset the bad feelings. One is still going strong- the "I love guys that love bellies" appreciation thread on the weight board. It's full of guys saying how they love bellies.
I thought us apple shapes needed that- since we don't seem to hear from the belly guys as much as the pear lovers.

I also made a thread on the main board called "The Apple Shaped Thread" about what we like about our stomachs and our road to accepting ourselves. It hasn't been bumped in a while though....

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I was in Ketchikan last week and one of the employees had made a quilt, and the squares on the quilt were women with bodies made out of fruit. I instantly thought about Dimensions and snapped a few pics. I'll upload them and post them here in a little while.

I would love to see those pictures

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Great topic Ash.

It's weird as I think I have encountered more bitchiness in the 'BBW' community than with my 'normal'* friends. For example when at a BBW night I am more likely to receive some sort of catty comment compared to being at a everyday club. I see it like this, with my skinny friends I am invisible, a sort of 'non-threat'** to anyone but at a BBW night the claws come out, I can see people sizing me up and commenting about my shape/size behind my back and to my face.


So yes, I do feel that I sort of fall in the 'inbetweeny' catagory. Too fat to be taken seriously in 'real life' too thin to be a stand out in the BBW scene. The point is though that I don't actually mind, I sort of really like floating between these two worlds and trying to understand the people and myself along the journey.

I have never been fatter than I am now and I have never been thin, ever. I don't know where I'll end up but that doesn't matter; as I get older I have discovered more self acceptance then when I was a smaller teenager (back when I felt horrendous) but now I sort of forget my size most of the time. It's only when I encounter a health issue that I fear may be weight related or receive a snide comment from someone that I'm reminded. This happened the other day actually, I was at a car boot sale flogging off some old bits and bobs when an elderly gentleman came and asked me about a mini DVD player I was selling. He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust. I forget how other people see me and sometimes it hurts like hell to be reminded but thankfully the pain is fleeting as I have so many positive experiences to balance it all out.

I hope you used your size to intimidate that idiot and made him eat that DVD player
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:45 PM   #73
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You know, it's weird, I always figured that "apple-shaped" meant a woman with large breasts in proportion to the rest of her body, and there was no term for a woman with a large midsection. I guess I was thinking Red Delicious, and everyone else meant McIntosh.

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I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista. In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."
I read Fatshionista too, it's a fantastic community! That definition doesn't really work for me, unfortunately, because I'm a 14/16 top and an 18/20 bottom. So I'm an in-between-in-betweenie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Eyed Fairy View Post
I actually made some threads in an attempt to offset the bad feelings. One is still going strong- the "I love guys that love bellies" appreciation thread on the weight board. It's full of guys saying how they love bellies.
I thought us apple shapes needed that- since we don't seem to hear from the belly guys as much as the pear lovers.

I also made a thread on the main board called "The Apple Shaped Thread" about what we like about our stomachs and our road to accepting ourselves. It hasn't been bumped in a while though....
I've seen those threads, and I sincerely appreciate your intent. I have to admit, though, that I haven't read them because I... well... I just have that many issues regarding my belly. Having to dwell on it for the duration of reading a mult-page thread is a really unpleasant task. I know, lame.
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:55 PM   #74
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I'm 5'8" girl and 220-240. I fluctuate. I go from a size 16-20 and most people just call me thick. I find bigger girls don't like me that much, and all my female friends are twiggs. So I know the feeling of being lost in the midsize.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:30 PM   #75
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Just some stuff I've been thinking about:

You know, I have to testify and say that I've had fat women friends of all sizes--from next-to-skinny to supersize.

So what I wonder is, are we talking about differences between groups more than anything here-- a kind of clan warfare? Because I think at the level of individuals maybe those differences make less of a difference.

I know some women here have told stories of friendships that fall apart because of the pressure that being "the wrong size" exerts. But I'm wondering if those problems shouldn't be chalked up to individual tensions. That is, can we really say across the board that ALL individuals who are a certain size behave in a certain way? And if we do that, how does it help the idea of inclusion?
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