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Old 07-13-2009, 02:30 PM   #1
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Default Gay Marriage

Howdy, folks; just wanted to get this out of the way.

I'm not gay myself, but I am supportive of gay marriage; I think any two people who really love each other should be married, regardless of what anyone religious believes, but also due to the benefits given in marriages. Also, what is a civil union, if not an extension of "separate but equal", that phrase that instantly connocates institutionalized discrimination?

I was raised in a very conservative household, but my personal beliefs have led me on a journey that, I feel, has helped build my moral character; my opinions on gay marriage are only a facet of this.

I really support this and any measures that will help it become law in my lifetime; I'm sure everyone here, wherever they live, agrees with me on this.
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:28 PM   #2
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This is what we are facing here in our province at the present time. Seems the right to marry is established, then people try to find a way to make it difficult to make it happen

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewa...-marriage.html
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:44 PM   #3
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Well Im an ordained Minister but Im also a bisexual bbw buddhist. I keep telling people soon as gay marriage is totally approved here in FL I will be performing weddings proudly.

I think its funny how the so called catholic/christians feel they have a right to rule & dictate the lives of Millions who are GLBT and so on but if one thing
is said to them about something they're doing and they freak out.

Personally Ive been bisexual since the womb and I dont think its anyones right to tell anybody what to do or how to be.

You are who you are so good riddence.
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Old 07-26-2009, 11:11 PM   #4
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100% support from a 96.9% straight Presbyterian.

Honestly? It sickens me that in 2009 there is still a debate over this issue.

I believe that love is sacred. I don't care if it is straight, gay, bi, lesbian, transsexual, questioning, asexual, or pineapple upside down cake--if the love is consensual, and honest, then the bond should be honored.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:42 PM   #5
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Personally, I'm not pro-marriage (whatever the sexual orientation) - but just because I'm not pro-marriage doesn't mean other people should be deprived of that right.

I live in SG, where legalizing same-sex marriage is probably not going to happen for at least another two generations (not sure if you are aware but we still have an outdated law prevailing here that does not allow sexual contact between two men). And quite often the common excuse for not allowing same-sex marriage or not accepting it is that we shouldn't emulate the west.

Yet all around me I see people emulating the west in many other ways - fashion, music, food, etc. - and not all of it in a good way.

Funny out people can be so hypocritical sometimes.

Sorry, just thinking out loud.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:05 PM   #6
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I don't know if this is a debate thread or simply a thread for people who are pro-gay marriage and want to promote their position. I have found that DIMs is very liberal-friendly and gay marriage supportive and that traditional, Christian, conservative views are not always welcomed here.

That being said, when I saw this thread title, I could not help but express that I think gay marriage is wrong and I will continue to fight efforts designed to make it legal.

I will not get into a debate as to WHY I think its wrong, because I don't want to get banned.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:15 PM   #7
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Hi ESPNcutie.

I think this thread was intended as nothing more than Matthew's heartfelt expression of his support for our issues (which was greatly appreciated - <3 Matthew!) You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I do not think this is the appropriate place to express that particular one; that discussion would be better suited to Hyde Park, if it still existed, or in private messages with people who agree with your stance. Even if this topic came up on the main board, it would not be so offensive for you to post your opinion, as that board is not a "safe place" for the group you're targeting. However, going on to the GLBTQ forum, posting on a thread that is clearly not a debate based on the whole 5 posts in it, and saying that you think gay marriage is wrong... that breaks a whole lot of boundaries. You should understand that there are some times and places where it's inappropriate to express something, especially given your job as a teacher. If you know your reasons for having that opinion are so offensive as to possibly get you banned, and you "will not get into a debate" about that position, then why did you post? It's not true that you "couldn't help but express" your thoughts on this; you made a conscious decision to come in here and essentially say "hi everyone, I am your enemy, and I want life to continue to be harder for you than for everyone else."

Again, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion; however, as your stating of that opinion is counter to the purpose of this board and it violates the feeling of safety and protection we have here, please refrain from further anti-gay rights posting here. Thank you.
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:29 AM   #8
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Mod here:

I'm leaving the previous two posts in this thread because they illustrate what this forum isn't, which is a place for people to denounce the basic civil liberties of gender and sexual non-conformist people. Teleute's reply is so smart and eloquent that I can add nothing more, other than to remind people to read the introduction sticky which lays out the rules of this forum, and to be mindful of the fact that anyone who continues to argue this topic in this forum will be infracted, at the least, and the thread will be closed. We aren't Hyde Park, and Hyde Park style discussions are not welcome here.

As a refresher, here is the appropriate paragraph from the introduction sticky that covers this scenario:

The GLBTQ forum is a space for anyone, of any gender or sexuality, who wants to participate in a positive space for online discussion, interaction, and fun. This forum is specifically open to anyone who respects the fundamental right of people to express their sexuality and gender in whatever way is meaningful to them. While this forum should not be a place that avoids sometimes tense discussions on the nature of GLBTQ existence as a minority within a heterosexual-majority world, this is not a place to dissuade, denounce, or criticize anyone’s choice to claim a GLBTQ identity. If you cannot refrain from being negative or critical about the rights of GLBTQ people to exist happily and healthily, then you may find yourself heavily moderated on this forum. Claims of religious or legal beliefs to support anti-GLBTQ sentiment will not be accepted, however, the GLBTQ forum is not a place for GLBTQ people and their allies to bash religious beliefs either. Debate and measured discussions about the structures in place that oppress GLBTQ people will be an inevitable part of any community of GLBTQ people. However, such debate will be expected to be carried out in a respectful manner; after all, many GLBTQ people continue to practice religion and adhere to particular faiths that can seem to be quite hostile to GLBTQ existence.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:14 AM   #9
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Wild applause for Teleute and Butch for handling this so incredibly well. Sadly I can't rep either of you at the moment, so I'm posting here to say that you both just keep showing yourselves as really exemplary people.

Also to mention, it is amazing how fast gay marriage becomes normal once it is legalized. Up here I think most people I know would not bother to mention the gay part when talking about a marriage anymore, it just wouldn't be seen as that important. I hope it becomes a normal thing in a lot more places soon.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:37 AM   #10
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I agree. I'm glad i didn't see that first or perhaps i would have been the one who got banned. Again.
Out of sheer morbid curiosity i wonder why he/she is fighting so hard against gay marrage and is so against it... because it really surprises me that people actually have these views. Its sort of like..i know looking at a car crash would be horrible and would make me sick but part of me just has to know or in my head it will always be worse somehow. I like to know my enemy and of their plans, so i can fight back twice as hard. You find, through history, it is not the ones trying to stop people from having equal rights who have won. If people don't have equal rights they will fight and fight and fight until they get them. We WILL get our equal rights ESPN, without your consent or approval.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:02 AM   #11
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I'm Christian and I support gay marriage. Why? Because the Old Testament arguements against it are moot. Why? Because when it was written, the mortality rate amongst children was astronomically high. Now, we have wonderful medicine and people like the Octomom and the Gooslins, and the Duggars. Relax, there is NO harm in gay marriage.

And if you really think of it, legalized gay marriage WILL stimulate the ecomony. Gay marriage will increase the need for photographers, flourists, catereers, rooms, halls, bands and dj, etc etc etc.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:23 AM   #12
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Default Rant on "Freedom" and Oppression

I am a straight man and I am "Pro gay marriage".

I defend both sides of the aisle here, as I am a true believer in what "Freedom" really means. Homo-sexual people should be legally "free" to be married, just as christian groups should be "free" to disagree with it.

However, where I draw the line, is when the Christian groups in America influence legislation within the government, keeping laws against gay marriage within the public opinion.

I always felt that it was fine for the two groups to disagree with one another, but that it was flat out wrong for the Christians to be able to stop anything, this is when I stop defending the Christian Coalition and Conservative Groups of today.

Now before anyone gets upset and blows what I say out of proportion, I am not blaming every christian or conservative for this atrocity. I have known plenty of Christians and Conservatives who support gay marriage. But the facts show that the majority of the Christian Coalition are against gay marriage, as well as most of the Conservative Party.

So now I ask you, since when was it right for anyone to stand in the way of anyone else' freedom and happiness, just because they personally did not agree with it.

Reasons like these were why people immigrated to America to begin with. Immigrants couldn't lead the life they wanted to in their country of origin, due to economic constraints or a group or oppressive people. So they came here, in hopes to leave the oppression behind. The very founders of our nation came here to find and express the freedom of religion, the freedom of life, the freedom of liberty, and the freedom for the pursuit of happiness. They chose to escape an oppressive state, in order to practice their lives, freely.

So who the hell do the Conservatives and the Christian Coalition think they are, to believe they have the right to stand in the way of any of that? It flat out disgusts me, and worse it hurts even more when I can see the pain in the eyes of good people, who's only "crime" was that they wanted to be happy.

The argument for the gay community isn't about the title of "marriage". It is about the rights and benefits that a gay couple should be able to have, just like any straight couple. These rights and benefits go hand in hand with the concept of getting married. When a straight couple is married, they fill out a ton of red tape which deals with things like health and life insurance, bank accounts, and the joining of assets. Gay couples do not get these same benefits. for example, I had a homo-sexual friend go into the hospital from a car accident, his partner of over 25 years couldn't visit him, because the hospital didn't recognize him as a spouse, or anything close to a spouse. They were not able to see each other for over a full week because the hospital did not recognize their union.

This entire controversy serves as a prime example of why church and state should be separated, and remain separated. People seem to have forgotten how to remove their own personal views and morals from judgment calls. Since they cannot see things without their morals clouding their view, they wind up seeing very little, and miss the fact that now they have become the oppressors.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewB View Post
Howdy, folks; just wanted to get this out of the way.

I'm not gay myself, but I am supportive of gay marriage; I think any two people who really love each other should be married, regardless of what anyone religious believes, but also due to the benefits given in marriages. Also, what is a civil union, if not an extension of "separate but equal", that phrase that instantly connocates institutionalized discrimination?

I was raised in a very conservative household, but my personal beliefs have led me on a journey that, I feel, has helped build my moral character; my opinions on gay marriage are only a facet of this.

I really support this and any measures that will help it become law in my lifetime; I'm sure everyone here, wherever they live, agrees with me on this.

Gay marriage will become legal in more states as people come to see that homosexuality is normal. The thing that stands in the way is the religious objections to homosexuality. What religious people need to see is that if they believed in Jesus, they would not discriminate against GLBTQ. Jesus did not support discrimination or hate. Sadly, they do not see this. They also need to understand that supporting equality for GLBTQ does not equal supporting bestiality and incest.

The so called clobber passages in the Old and New Testaments did not refer to homosexuality as we understand it today.

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Marriage is a legal contract between two people. Just because gay marriage might be legal does not mean that the Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, conservative Lutherans, conservative Presbyterians and Southern Baptists have to perform gay marriages in their churches.

Again, I will say that there is a tremendous amount of fear that underlies the opposition. Look how afraid people used to be of interracial marriages.

I think it will take an Supreme Court decision to strike down the anti gay marriage laws, but I do see this happening in a generation or two. Hopefully Justices Scalia and Kennedy will retire so President Obama (or some other Democrat) can replace them with liberals.

Marriage between 2 men or 2 women is becoming inevitable in America. I hope to see that bright day when discriminatory laws against GLBTQ are invalidated and sexual orientation receives full legal protection.

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Old 08-19-2009, 07:15 PM   #14
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I'd have to agree with almost everyone on here. The choice to be married to someone of the same sex should be totally up to the two people involved in the marriage. I feel that if every celebrity out there is able to go out and get married and then a week later get a divorce, then people who are actually in love and take marriage seriously should have those same rights. It's not the whole world's right to tell people who they can and can't marry. As long as it doesn't effect you, why do you care?
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:58 PM   #15
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This topic is near and dear to my heart as my best friend, an amazing lesbian, is getting married and she asked me to be her best man (I feel like Elaine!).

I was very honored but then we had to start talking about where the nuptials could actually take place. For the gay lovlies that live on the West Coast... there aren't many options. And unfortunately it's going to be a big ordeal to get the entire wedding party to a place where the ceremony can be performed.

Marriage is about rights and protection for spouses under the law, it's not only about religion as it once was, so the religious argument is null and void. You do not enjoy the same rights as a domestic partnership in this country as you would if you were a married heterosexual couple. This is one of the last fronts of civil rights. It would be like saying that black people can't marry. Because one is just as in control of their sexuality as they are their race.

Or as we like to say in our little circle...

Gay people have just as much a right to get divorced as straight people do.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:36 PM   #16
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Straight ffa here. This topic means alot to me.

I actually spent all summer working as a fundraiser for Equality California, a LGBT rights group. I was particularly enraged when prop 8 passed in California and stripped away the right for gay couples to get married. So I took this job, which job involved me standing in malls and in front of shopping centers talking to people and trying to get donations, and I took a lot of abuse from people like ESPN_Cutie. Folks would always try to argue with me, and none of them could ever give me a good reason why gay marriage should be illegal that involved US law or the constitution, arguments always involved religion, or simply the fact that the just thought that homosexuality is "disgusting". People would swear at me, yell at me, call me a dyke, and tell me I was going to Hell. One woman told me she should “beat my face in” because I said the word gay in front of her child. None of these people ever came close to demonstrating the Christian values of love and community or American values, like freedom of choice. All I saw was hate and a deliberate unwillingness to understand. But I also met many, many, many people of all races, ages, genders, and sexual orientations that support gay marriage. They didn’t all donate, (these are horrible economic times to be a fundraiser)but a great deal of people do understand that marriage is about love, no matter what your gender, and putting limits on love isn’t an American or a Christian thing to do. I am confident that prop 8 will be repealed and I will get to see my gay friends be married in my life time. I am also positive, based on what I was this summer, that history will regard the people who yelled at and disparaged my coworkers and me much the ways it regards the people who protested integration; as behind-the-times fools full of fear.

"the arch of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice" -Martin Luther King Jr.

p.s. the fundraising campaign was succesful. our tiny san diego office alone raised over 500k and counting. check out www.eqca.org
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:46 PM   #17
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Wild applause for Teleute and Butch for handling this so incredibly well. Sadly I can't rep either of you at the moment, so I'm posting here to say that you both just keep showing yourselves as really exemplary people.

Also to mention, it is amazing how fast gay marriage becomes normal once it is legalized. Up here I think most people I know would not bother to mention the gay part when talking about a marriage anymore, it just wouldn't be seen as that important. I hope it becomes a normal thing in a lot more places soon.
Gott'em for ya', Tad. I support human rights.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:20 PM   #18
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An opinion I support and hear espoused far less often in regard to this debate than seems logical is to have EVERYONE able to have the state recognize legal unions RATHER than marriage. Each and every citizen in America has the right to practice religious activities as they see fit. A great many people of varying faiths can be married as their particular faith dictates. People who are straight and not at all religious can become married without rebuke. Yet there is obviously a religious connection to the institution of marriage in the minds of most. This being the case I see no cause for any branch of the US government to recognize or support ANY religious position. Any two people joined in any legal union should have recognized legal rights. The debate over semantics and title is a waste of all of our time when we ought to worry about war, poverty, hunger, and the thousand other ills we suffer. Our government has an obligation to provide equal rights to all men (or women), created equally, and is obligated to provide the appropriate tax breaks (etc) for people in equal legal standing. If "legal union" was the term for all then the religious implications of any term they would like to call said position would be determined by the individual. Call it whatever the hell you want. Call it "sexy explosion time" for all I care. I hear people against gay marriage use the argument that gay couples should have a "seperate but equal" status where they can have a "legal union". Ok. Then what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let "God" or "the Gods" sort it out.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:23 PM   #19
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Well said, Oirish! I'm repping you on that one!
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:52 PM   #20
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I was very honored but then we had to start talking about where the nuptials could actually take place. For the gay lovlies that live on the West Coast... there aren't many options. And unfortunately it's going to be a big ordeal to get the entire wedding party to a place where the ceremony can be performed.
There's still Canada! And a Canadian same-sex marriage will be recognized in all the states that perform them, plus New York. Not too helpful in the People's Republic of Pacifica, I admit.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:11 AM   #21
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There's still Canada! And a Canadian same-sex marriage will be recognized in all the states that perform them, plus New York. Not too helpful in the People's Republic of Pacifica, I admit.
Yah! Travel from the US has plunged this year, between the economy and now needing a passport (or other unusual document) to cross the border, rather than just a driver's license. So people would be doubly delighted to have you all come visit
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:18 AM   #22
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Oh yeah. When i say 'married' i mean only in the legal sense. Over here it is called a civil partnership. You are then aforded all the same legal rights as married hetro people. If you want to add a religious ceremony you can. I am more concerned with the legal equal rights of people. Infact, there are many hetrosexual people over here who would prefer a civil partnership rather than a marrage.
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:23 PM   #23
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I don't know if this is a debate thread or simply a thread for people who are pro-gay marriage and want to promote their position. I have found that DIMs is very liberal-friendly and gay marriage supportive and that traditional, Christian, conservative views are not always welcomed here.

That being said, when I saw this thread title, I could not help but express that I think gay marriage is wrong and I will continue to fight efforts designed to make it legal.

I will not get into a debate as to WHY I think its wrong, because I don't want to get banned.

Marriage is a right that should be given to everyone. No one deserves to be treated differently because of their sexual preference. If you can't see that then I feel sorry for you.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:29 PM   #24
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Call it marriage, call it "union" ... All folks who want to publicly declare and legally bind their love should have the right to do so - and equal public recognition of that in all its legal forms.. Good luck to everyone fighting for gay marriage!
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:23 PM   #25
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I think this thread was intended as nothing more than Matthew's heartfelt expression of his support for our issues (which was greatly appreciated - <3 Matthew!).
You're really welcome! Wow, I didn't expect this thread to get so popular while I was away, but I'm glad I started it in the first place, just for people to get their opinions out.
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