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Old 10-16-2009, 10:55 AM   #26
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Hmm. As an FFA, my view is that if someone's consensually posed for a photo or made a video, then I would say he *wants* to be looked at. Celebrities? Fair game for looking and leching, NOT stalking. And yeah, people are going to look at others on the street, etc.

But when it comes to people you interact with, no, those people don't exist first & foremost to satisfy your personal fantasies. Treating them like they do (whether it's through a crude or callous remark dropped on a web forum, or the end game of a long exploitative relationship) is objectification - and NOT cool.

However, looking, desiring, staying within appropriate bounds in a relationship or outside it - that's admiration, and IMO there's nothing wrong with it.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dr. Feelgood View Post
You are if you think you are. If, in admiring a woman, you resolutely shut out any consideration of her as a person and focus only on her body, then you're objectifying her. If you are considerate of her feelings, offering friendship and respect, then you are not.
I like that. I think that's the best explanation anyone can give about this topic. We all admire women and their bodies, but we must keep in mind that they are human beings with feelings and rights to be treated with dignity, as is every human being. We have our fantasies, but that is what they must be if we are to establish a truly loving relationship.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:02 AM   #28
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I'd have to assume the success of this website as well as being an FA has the whole world to do with objectifying BBW. If it wasn't for their size we wouldn't be drawn to them--or to a website that extols the beauty of the fat female form. I'm assuming we don't "admire" their minds and hearts any more than those of our thinner female friends. But yes, it's everything beneath the skin that will determine if the relationship is sustainable. Now if an FA dumps a woman after she's lost all of her weight, that's a relationship solely based upon objectifying the woman and that really can't be good for anyone.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Les Toil View Post
Now if an FA dumps a woman after she's lost all of her weight, that's a relationship solely based upon objectifying the woman and that really can't be good for anyone.
Hmm.. i dunno. I consider my Fa sexuality to be stronger than my gender sexuality. If my gf decided she wanted to become a man though, while i would still love her and want erm him.. in my life, i can't say for sure i would still sexually want to be with her. I'm sure there would be many things that would make me still attracted to her but she would not be the gender i was generally attracted to. I dont think it would make me shallow not to want to be with someone i was not sexually attracted to- I think it would be unfair for the person you were with to know you wern't attracted to them any more as it would be unfair on you to be with someone you wern't sexually attracted to. You could love the person and be their friend but i think it would be difficult to sustain a relationship if someone changed into something that was not on your sexuality spectrum.
I am attracted to my girlfriend for many more reasons than just her body, therefore i don't objectify her. Though i am a lesbian Fa- So if she became a skinny man my brain just would not be able to find her attractive. Sexuality isn't shallow, you can't help it.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:41 AM   #30
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When discussing admiration and objectification, wouldn't it be impossible to escape one or the other? I just had this question on my mind as I had pondered what was already discussed.

At times, doesn't the mind choose one or the other for pleasure? Perhaps the mind chooses both? Maybe I've been doing too much thinking about the "id."
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:22 PM   #31
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I'd say that this issue is the F of the FA - it implies that you're admiring a lady's fat rather than the lady herself. Obviously most FAs here are more "BBWAs", in that they see the whole package.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cheekyjez View Post
I'd say that this issue is the F of the FA - it implies that you're admiring a lady's fat rather than the lady herself. Obviously most FAs here are more "BBWAs", in that they see the whole package.
I have been thinking about this a lot. I think i am going to reject the term 'Fa' from now on because i'm not comfortable with it. Like you say.. something like bbwa might be ok.. I don't admire fat. I don't actually admire anything physical i don't think.. i save my admiration for people who 'do' or 'say' something brilliant...and they can be fat or thin.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
I have been thinking about this a lot. I think i am going to reject the term 'Fa' from now on because i'm not comfortable with it. Like you say.. something like bbwa might be ok.. I don't admire fat. I don't actually admire anything physical i don't think.. i save my admiration for people who 'do' or 'say' something brilliant...and they can be fat or thin.
Exactly.

I think that "admiration" on this subject .. well just .. needs a more deserving term in front. I'm not trying to speak ill of the term fat admiration (FA) ... its just always tagged with an individual who possesses an objectifying persona .. and that isn't necessarily always true. Preference or fetish, it just seems to always carry the burden of something negating, at least at first glance. *shrugs*

Community members who have lived with the term just know better.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:57 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LoveBHMS View Post
Assuming that can also apply to female FA/male bodies, I'm going to have to go with....does this matter?

It kind of seems like the whole fetish/preference argument. I mean isn't a lot of this just semantics anyway? Like if somebody said to me "Oh, you're not a female fat admirer, you're a female fat objectifier" I would be like "Ok...fine...call it what you want."

I completely agree, I "objectify" women all the time and will continue to do so because it is normal natural human behavior. RedVelvet put it very well. We all do it and especially men, it's nature, so this entire conversation is a crock. I mean let's be a teeny tiny bit honest here please

The word objectify is a BS word whose origins I suggest people investigate. hint: Its part of the 'dumbing down' effort. 'Objectify' is not an attempt to instill some moral good into us bad people it is designed to trick otherwise intelligent people into thinking human sexuality is something bad instead of good.

What one person finds "offensive" another wont, and the same act done by two different people may result in different responses because the attention may be wanted from one but not the other; from a particular person or type of person.

But to say hey your lusting after that woman's (or man's) body from afar without an attempt to get to know them so your "objectifying" and therefore doing something wrong... all I can say is anyone who actually buys into this I feel sorry for you.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Russ2d View Post
I completely agree, I "objectify" women all the time and will continue to do so because it is normal natural human behavior. RedVelvet put it very well. We all do it and especially men, it's nature, so this entire conversation is a crock. I mean let's be a teeny tiny bit honest here please

The word objectify is a BS word whose origins I suggest people investigate. hint: Its part of the 'dumbing down' effort. 'Objectify' is not an attempt to instill some moral good into us bad people it is designed to trick otherwise intelligent people into thinking human sexuality is something bad instead of good.

What one person finds "offensive" another wont, and the same act done by two different people may result in different responses because the attention may be wanted from one but not the other; from a particular person or type of person.

But to say hey your lusting after that woman's (or man's) body from afar without an attempt to get to know them so your "objectifying" and therefore doing something wrong... all I can say is anyone who actually buys into this I feel sorry for you.
I think that you may want to read what Redvelvet said a bit more closely. What SHE said, I agree with.

And hey, there's room for agreement in some of what you said, as well: Some people like the attention. Also, there's nothing inherently wrong with seeing an attractive man or woman and admiring him/her from afar. But the second that anyone expects me to participate in objectification of myself, that crosses a line. What I don't know doesn't harm me in the slightest. Having some lech come on to me in a very creepy way ... does (in that it annoys the bejeebus out of me). In other words, don't expect a kind, patient, or understanding response.

There's a right way and a wrong way to express appreciation. We all know this. And I don't think that ANYONE thinks it's wrong to view, appreciate, and admire from afar nor would anyone call that 'objectifying'. The term is a lot more sinister than that, and I think you know this already, Russ. So ... the question is ... what are you really objecting to?
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:05 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Les Toil View Post
I'd have to assume the success of this website as well as being an FA has the whole world to do with objectifying BBW. If it wasn't for their size we wouldn't be drawn to them--or to a website that extols the beauty of the fat female form. I'm assuming we don't "admire" their minds and hearts any more than those of our thinner female friends. But yes, it's everything beneath the skin that will determine if the relationship is sustainable.

I agree...

The problem is with the word objectify itself. Replace it with desire as in sexual desire... one word connotes positive and is frankly more honest while the other, objectify, denotes negative
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:14 AM   #37
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Having some lech come on to me in a very creepy way ... does (in that it annoys the bejeebus out of me). In other words, don't expect a kind, patient, or understanding response.
A creepy lech is rude behavior which I didn't think I needed to spell out in my post

Quote:
There's a right way and a wrong way to express appreciation. We all know this. And I don't think that ANYONE thinks it's wrong to view, appreciate, and admire from afar nor would anyone call that 'objectifying'.
Ahh ok, we agree I think, but not the same message I was getting from others posts

Quote:
The term is a lot more sinister than that, and I think you know this already, Russ. So ... the question is ... what are you really objecting to
I 'object' to people not being honest, to redefining what's good into something bad, and to adults being conned

If we want a conversation on rude behavior fine, but people saying or implying that being an FA is close to some 'objectifying' line and that normal sexual behavior needs re-examining is a tiresome irritating line that I am sick of going down
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by swamptoad View Post
Exactly.

I think that "admiration" on this subject .. well just .. needs a more deserving term in front. I'm not trying to speak ill of the term fat admiration (FA) ... its just always tagged with an individual who possesses an objectifying persona .. and that isn't necessarily always true. Preference or fetish, it just seems to always carry the burden of something negating, at least at first glance. *shrugs*

Community members who have lived with the term just know better.
Ohhh boy, hey how about FL? Fat lust, admiration doesn't really describe the sexual desire FAs feel when viewing a fat woman, that's a woman whose fat curves he desires... or hey when a FFA feels when she sees a portly guy

So how about FL, fat lust or maybe FD, Fat desire

Or since its been around so long we can just live with FA and just reject the 'tagged with an objectifying persona' stuff'.

FA, FL, FD...
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:38 PM   #39
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Conrad, concise and right on, I think.

Arv, I agree that we do all objectify and I think it is, in general, a natural function of attraction. I think it becomes a problem when it becomes an inappropriate fixation when relating and communicating to the opposite sex -- unless it's within a venue that is set up for that.
I agree.

Admiration and Objectification influence attraction - the quality of arousal in everyone - physically and emotionally. It should be everyone's goal to merit and honor this attraction maturely and responsibly.

What I see is that objectification is externalized whereas admiration is both, internalized and externalized.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Russ2d View Post
Ohhh boy, hey how about FL? Fat lust, admiration doesn't really describe the sexual desire FAs feel when viewing a fat woman, that's a woman whose fat curves he desires... or hey when a FFA feels when she sees a portly guy

So how about FL, fat lust or maybe FD, Fat desire

Or since its been around so long we can just live with FA and just reject the 'tagged with an objectifying persona' stuff'.

FA, FL, FD...
I don't think objectification can simply just be rejected. It's just how we as humans are naturally programmed.

Original Post --- "One do we still believe there is a difference between the admiration of the female form and the objectification of women? If there is, where is the line"?

There's just a different set of goals placed in each.

Let's check out some simple definitions. It just sometimes helps me understand stuff without misrepresenting what I think to add later on to threads. And I had no intent to go off-topic here. Just felt like sharing.

ob⋅jec⋅ti⋅fy
1. To present or regard as an object: "Because we have objectified animals, we are able to treat them impersonally" (Barry Lopez).
2. To make objective, external, or concrete: thoughts objectified in art.
3. (Philosophy) (tr) to represent concretely; present as an object
objectification

Verb 1. objectify - make external or objective, or give reality to; "language externalizes our thoughts"
exteriorise, exteriorize, externalise, externalize
alter, change, modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation; "The advent of the automobile may have altered the growth pattern of the city"; "The discussion has changed my thinking about the issue"
2. objectify - make impersonal or present as an object; "Will computers depersonalize human interactions?"; "Pornography objectifies women"
depersonalise, depersonalize
alter, change, modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation; "The advent of the automobile may have altered the growth pattern of the city"; "The discussion has changed my thinking about the issue."



ad·mire
1. To regard with pleasure, wonder, and approval.
2. To have a high opinion of; esteem or respect.
3. Chiefly New England & Upper Southern U.S. To enjoy (something): "I just admire to get letters, but I don't admire to answer them" (Dialect Notes).
4. Archaic To marvel or wonder at.

Verb 1. admire - feel admiration for
look up to
esteem, respect, value, prise, prize - regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We prize his creativity"
envy - feel envious towards; admire enviously
look down on - regard with contempt; "the new neighbor looks down on us because our house is very modest"
2. admireadmire - look at with admiration
look - perceive with attention; direct one's gaze towards; "She looked over the expanse of land"; "Look at your child!"; "Look--a deer in the backyard!"
admire
verb
1. respect, value, prize, honoured, praise, appreciate, esteem, approve of, revere, venerate, big up (slang, chiefly Caribbean), take your hat off to, have a good or high opinion of, think highly of He admired the way she had coped with life.
2. adore, like, love, desire, take to, go for, fancy (Brit. informal), treasure, worship, cherish, glorify, look up to, dote on, hold dear, be captivated by, have an eye for, find attractive, idolize, take a liking to, be infatuated with, be enamoured of, lavish affection on I admired her when I first met her and I still think she's marvellous.
3. marvel at, look at, appreciate, delight in, gaze at, wonder at, be amazed by, take pleasure in, gape at, be awed by, goggle at, be filled with surprise by We took time to stop and admire the view.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:42 PM   #41
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There's probably as many answers as there are women who feel either admired or objectified. And the overall dynamic of females trying to look pretty and attractive while at the same time not wishing to be objectified is hugely complex.
ohhh absolutely, you nailed that on the head, those who dress up at a bash, are you dressing for your self or to attract?? that is the double edged answer, for many it is both, you dress for yourself and for the person you hope to attract. But some of the dress i have seen at bashes (while trying so hard not to have my eyes fall out, age does matter, lol) is purely for titilation...which isnt wrong, but increases the objectification alone...
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:27 AM   #42
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Objectification to me is seeing someone and being attracted. Then after I get to know them (and still like them) it becomes Admiration.

So it starts with objectification and ends (hopefully) with Admiration.

To me that goes with anything that really gets your gander about a person...with its FA'ism, Muscle Fetish, DarkHair fetish..etc.


...ok I have overlapping fetishes...sue me.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:53 AM   #43
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I saw this and man..did it make me think

"You always admire what you really don't understand. "

Eleanor Roosevelt (1884-1962)
"Meet the Press", NBC TV
16 September 1956
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Old 01-09-2010, 09:13 AM   #44
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I like that a lot..

Nothing dispels magic more than familiarity.




I keep love by never exposing all of my interior mental landscape to the air.

(She said, fooling herself.)





(liking something a lot isn't a fetish, yanno, so I wouldn't think of yourself as someone with a lot of fetishes....you don't need a large muscular brunette near you to orgasm or be aroused..., right?)
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:25 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by RedVelvet View Post
I like that a lot..

Nothing dispels magic more than familiarity.




I keep love by never exposing all of my interior mental landscape to the air.

(She said, fooling herself.)





(liking something a lot isn't a fetish, yanno, so I wouldn't think of yourself as someone with a lot of fetishes....you don't need a large muscular brunette near you to orgasm or be aroused..., right?)


Well, I guess they could have blond or red hair...
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secret turn on.....Genuine affection :)
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:43 AM   #46
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This is an old thread and I'm a rank newbie, but... What if I want to be objectified? Not, y'know, to where someone thinks that I owe them something or am welcoming direct crude behavior, but just in terms of looking at my body and thinking "Wow, that's hot!"

I've been admired plenty in my life - you're such a great mom, I love your fanfic, you're an amazing student, how'd you get to be so smart, you're so nice, etc. - but I don't think I've ever been objectified. It might be nice to see how the other half lives in that sense. Does that make sense?
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:04 AM   #47
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I was going to come back and delete the post, since I realized that I was kind of intruding on FA space and being kind of mixed up - saying I want to be objectified but not posting pictures because of warnings that this isn't necessarily a private space and there are apparently people who rip off photos and do goodness knows what with them somewhere in eastern Europe or outer Mongolia or someplace really far away.

But, by the time I got back, I didn't see any edit or delete buttons. So, basically, don't mind me.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:40 PM   #48
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Your posts were not against the rules, and don't hit my persona offense meter.
Carry on. lol
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:36 PM   #49
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I find the whole objectification/admiration debate hugely boring. If you don't know a woman--a woman on Youtube as used as an example earlier (much earlier, I know)--you might imagine having sex with her and all matter of nasty things, and you certainly aren't thinking about what a great person she probably is, or whether she's happy in her life, etc. This is normal and called being a human being.

Although as a non-sociopath/insane person you are aware that women in videos, online, in the grocery store, wherever, are actually people w/ feelings and lives, this is not an especially important fact until you get to know them, at which time it becomes hugely, centrally important.

The idea that we should police our own thoughts and sexual ids is very disturbing and also silly, imo.
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