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Old 08-18-2009, 09:32 PM   #26
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I do have particularily high standards for a mate... He has to be not only good looking, but smart, have a good head on his shoulders, but those shoulders better be ready for me to cry on them. He can't play video games or be selfish in any way. He pretty much has to follow me around all day holding on to my hips, kissing my neck and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Not only that, he should be one to put food on the table and be able to support me completely, even though I'll insist he doesn't.... I know that these things are impossible, and even though I love my boyfriend of 2 and a half years to pieces, I still think of my prerequesites for the perfect mate. But I guess we all have that extremely out of reach pedestal that we hope one day prince charming will reach.
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:06 PM   #27
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I'm glad to see that this thread has actually returned to discussing the topic that was introduced by the OP! Why is this kind of contentious posting being permitted on a protected forum? Would the reverse fly on the FA/FFA forum?

BTW, I don't think expecting too much from a prospective partner is the exclusive province of BBWs. Everyone does it. Men and women, fat and thin. I have spent long periods single because I'm very picky, but it seems to have worked out for me, and I'm glad that I didn't "settle." The truth is that if I were an average weight, I would have a lot more guys to choose from, thus perhaps my ideal qualities in a man wouldn't be seen by others as "too demanding" in that there would be a statistically better chance of having them fulfilled? Where does being "too demanding" connote not being entitled to make the same choices that others do, and when is it truly a shallow checklist of idealized, non-negotiable qualities? Although when I think about it, thin friends of mine have had just as much trouble finding partners that they actually want to be with- we all share high standards when it comes to intelligence, intellectual curiosity, cultural interest, education, etc. things that others could easily label as "too demanding." Physical appearance is just one segment of a larger issue.

I hear what you're saying, mszwebs, but I would also say that in my experience, living in a big city just means that you kiss more frogs. I only met James because of dims/facebook... given the physical distance that was between us, I don't think we would have had the opportunity to meet otherwise perhaps?

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Old 08-19-2009, 06:35 AM   #28
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Thanks for getting this thread back on topic, S&F. AS the title of this thread suggests (Are WE too demanding when it comes to dating?), and the placement of the thread within the protected BBW Forum also suggests, this is a thread for BBWs to talk about the topic, and not men or non-BBWs, no matter how well-meaning. If there are any more contentious posts from non-BBWs in this thread, the mod team will delete them, so please stay on topic and respect the rules of this forum.

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Old 08-19-2009, 07:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by fatgirlflyin View Post

One thing that I try to do as a mother, is limit the amount of fairy tales in my daughters life. I think that we do a disservice to our daughters when we allow their heads to be filled with stories like Cinderella, Snow White, and the like. Same thing with romantic comedies for adults, I find myself a little persnickety if I watch too many of those sappy girly movies.
No way! I think the opposite. I've always been a romantic, and grew up on all those Disney princesses. I soaked it all in, and you know what? I have one of the healthiest and most optimistic views on love of anyone I know. Why force a child into a 'realist' AKA 'pessimist' view of romance and love? Give them a happy, dreamy-eyed, "some day my prince will come", and they will believe he will.

Giving up, settling [as others have mentioned], or deciding to be alone because it's too hard to find someone, is silly. No child should be shoved into an adult's mindset of love... let them jump into that world fresh and ready to experience their first loves, their crappy relationships, and their eventual soul mate with high hopes... no teen really believes a guy on a horse will come and wake her from eternal sleep with a kiss, but they can believe in a good man/woman who will make them feel like a Princess someday.

When my best friends got down on love, or I felt downtrodden by a horrible break-up, I held onto that child-like hope of that one person who was meant for me. I knew it was only a matter of time before the right one came along.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:35 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by sweet&fat View Post
I'm glad to see that this thread has actually returned to discussing the topic that was introduced by the OP! Why is this kind of contentious posting being permitted on a protected forum? Would the reverse fly on the FA/FFA forum?

BTW, I don't think expecting too much from a prospective partner is the exclusive province of BBWs. Everyone does it. Men and women, fat and thin. I have spent long periods single because I'm very picky, but it seems to have worked out for me, and I'm glad that I didn't "settle." The truth is that if I were an average weight, I would have a lot more guys to choose from, thus perhaps my ideal qualities in a man wouldn't be seen by others as "too demanding" in that there would be a statistically better chance of having them fulfilled? Where does being "too demanding" connote not being entitled to make the same choices that others do, and when is it truly a shallow checklist of idealized, non-negotiable qualities? Although when I think about it, thin friends of mine have had just as much trouble finding partners that they actually want to be with- we all share high standards when it comes to intelligence, intellectual curiosity, cultural interest, education, etc. things that others could easily label as "too demanding." Physical appearance is just one segment of a larger issue.

I hear what you're saying, mszwebs, but I would also say that in my experience, living in a big city just means that you kiss more frogs. I only met James because of dims/facebook... given the physical distance that was between us, I don't think we would have had the opportunity to meet otherwise perhaps?
S&F, I probably agree with you 100% when it comes down to it...however, the location thing is kind of one of those grass is greener situations.

While I'm certain that there are a kajillion (technical term) frogs in a big city, and you can probably tell me that until we're both blue in the face...It it still going to SOUND better than what I have. Sick, ain't it?

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Old 08-19-2009, 07:43 AM   #31
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I don't deny my daughter the Disney princesses, I just try to make sure that's not all she has to base her views on love and relationships.

I also didn't say that I'd teach her to give up, live alone, or settle. However, I believe that she needs to know that there is no such thing as Prince Charming. He just doesn't exist and for her to think otherwise would just lead to disappointment later on in life. Men are people, they make mistakes, and sometimes no matter how much they love you they will say or do something that hurts your feelings. I'd rather that she knows that is reality and the cartoons not so much.

And I guess maybe I didn't make myself very clear in the first post. I believe in soul mates and all that jazz(I don't believe that people have only one soul mate), and I believe that there is someone out there for everybody. I just don't believe that someone is going to come along and make all your grey days sunny. That has to come from within...



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No way! I think the opposite. I've always been a romantic, and grew up on all those Disney princesses. I soaked it all in, and you know what? I have one of the healthiest and most optimistic views on love of anyone I know. Why force a child into a 'realist' AKA 'pessimist' view of romance and love? Give them a happy, dreamy-eyed, "some day my prince will come", and they will believe he will.

Giving up, settling [as others have mentioned], or deciding to be alone because it's too hard to find someone, is silly. No child should be shoved into an adult's mindset of love... let them jump into that world fresh and ready to experience their first loves, their crappy relationships, and their eventual soul mate with high hopes... no teen really believes a guy on a horse will come and wake her from eternal sleep with a kiss, but they can believe in a good man/woman who will make them feel like a Princess someday.

When my best friends got down on love, or I felt downtrodden by a horrible break-up, I held onto that child-like hope of that one person who was meant for me. I knew it was only a matter of time before the right one came along.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:07 AM   #32
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I don't think so. My requirements are simple: smart, attractive, monogamous, and treats me nicely. I haven't found one that returns my admiration, so... I'd rather be lonely than unhappy in an incompatible relationship.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:30 AM   #33
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I think it truly depends on the person with the expectations for dating, so it is hard to say as a whole. I know the mods want the question answered in terms of the bbw community as a whole, but it is a vague concept. Some of us want to be in a relationship that is based on accepting "the weight", and some of us want a relationship to be about anything but "the weight". Obviously, when people get in a relationship, there is a slight attraction to eachother (physically) at the very least. IMO it is not demanding to want a relationship to be more than just about appearance. I suppose the best way to find the general opinion regarding the original post would be for people to share how they feel about themselves individually, as opposed to trying to answer a question too "deep" for one person to generalize. I might be getting the wrong idea from what Butch has said, but it is important to gather a final opinion from the experiences and personal thoughts of others, and sometimes following the question on the thread "to the T" doesn't answer it as well as reading [I]testimonials[I](not sure if that's the "right" way to say it) from bbws.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:41 AM   #34
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Is it actually asking too much to want to be wanted for your mind AND (or despite if that's where you're at) your body? I expect any man I'm with to appreciate who I am as a person and drool over how I look. Both are essential to me. If weight is a significant factor in your life, how is it asking too much to have a partner who understands and appreciates that, whatever your perspective vis a vis weight might be?

And, no offense to anyone, but fairytale princesses, especially of the uber-commercialized Disney variety, are not good role models for young girls.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:45 AM   #35
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Is it actually asking too much to want to be wanted for your mind AND (or despite if that's where you're at) your body? I expect any man I'm with to appreciate who I am as a person and drool over how I look. Both are essential to me. If weight is a significant factor in your life, how is it asking too much to have a partner who understands and appreciates that?

And, no offense to anyone, but princesses, especially of the Disney variety, are hardly good role models for young girls.
Of course not! A good relationship IMO involves that physical attraction, as well as intellectual conversation. A balance is key.

On the Disney side note.... I feel they are good role models. Most of them are portrayed as intelligent, outspoken, and confident. And they get what they want after much hard work. Disney makes them beautiful because its what we want to see. We wouldn't want to see Strega Nonna in a ballgown. (I loved those books, btw..)
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:51 AM   #36
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I've met lots of women who complain about being single, and then go down a list of things to pick the man apart. I want to shake them and say "THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SINGLE FOR THE LOVE HAM!"

I think that the majority of women expect a Jane Austen romance when we're going to get dinner at Olive Garden.

To me it's important to have a sense of self worth and an idea of what you want. However, if you're going to be rigid you'll probably miss out on something you didn't even know you wanted.
And the funny thing about Jane Austen is I never found it romantic so much as a bunch of British gentry smiling politely while ripping each other apart verbally. At least you get breadsticks with the fake smiles at Olive Garden.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by msbard90 View Post
I think it truly depends on the person with the expectations for dating, so it is hard to say as a whole. I know the mods want the question answered in terms of the bbw community as a whole, but it is a vague concept. Some of us want to be in a relationship that is based on accepting "the weight", and some of us want a relationship to be about anything but "the weight". Obviously, when people get in a relationship, there is a slight attraction to eachother (physically) at the very least. IMO it is not demanding to want a relationship to be more than just about appearance. I suppose the best way to find the general opinion regarding the original post would be for people to share how they feel about themselves individually, as opposed to trying to answer a question too "deep" for one person to generalize. I might be getting the wrong idea from what Butch has said, but it is important to gather a final opinion from the experiences and personal thoughts of others, and sometimes following the question on the thread "to the T" doesn't answer it as well as reading [I]testimonials[I](not sure if that's the "right" way to say it) from bbws.
Please don't feel like there is some narrow path you must take to respond to the OP. As long as you're a BBW, you can respond in whatever way seems best. It just feels counterproductive to have non-BBWs posting in this thread since this is a protected forum where men's critiques, no matter how well meaning, are discouraged.

For those of you who would like to widen this discussion to non-BBWs, please feel free to start a thread on the main board, where well-meaning critiques would be more appropriate.

Thank you, mod Butch
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:56 AM   #38
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Of course not! A good relationship IMO involves that physical attraction, as well as intellectual conversation. A balance is key.

On the Disney side note.... I feel they are good role models. Most of them are portrayed as intelligent, outspoken, and confident. And they get what they want after much hard work. Disney makes them beautiful because its what we want to see. We wouldn't want to see Strega Nonna in a ballgown. (I loved those books, btw..)
You're right- they are intelligent and well-spoken, and I have no issue with beauty as long as there's acknowledgment that it's a diverse thing. The Disney princesses do work hard for what they want- but what is that precisely? For the most famous ones, i.e. Cinderella, Snow White, Ariel from the Little Mermaid, and Belle from Beauty and the Beast, it's marriage. Even Belle, who reads all the time and claims to want more than her limited life, ends up fulfilling her destiny by ending up with the Beast. Her dress isn't actually white at the end, but it may as well be.

Sorry to hijack- please recommence discussion of BBW demands!
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:57 AM   #39
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Please don't feel like there is some narrow path you must take to respond to the OP. As long as you're a BBW, you can respond in whatever way seems best. It just feels counterproductive to have non-BBWs posting in this thread since this is a protected forum where men's critiques, no matter how well meaning, are discouraged.

For those of you who would like to widen this discussion to non-BBWs, please feel free to start a thread on the main board, where well-meaning critiques would be more appropriate.

Thank you, mod Butch
Thanks for the clear-up, mod Butch .... I can't help but get a little weary when I write a response... I feel like I have to make sure it's perfect to not get attacked on here. I'm sure you understand completely.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:59 AM   #40
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Thanks for the clear-up, mod Butch .... I can't help but get a little weary when I write a response... I feel like I have to make sure it's perfect to not get attacked on here. I'm sure you understand completely.
I do, and sorry that you feel this way. Hopefully the BBW Forum is a place that you're much less likely to have this feeling, but I understand, and wish people didn't feel this way.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:29 PM   #41
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I have a problem with fat girls who want to be loved in spite of their bodies. The first thing that attracts people to each - before words are spoken and wits engaged - is the physical. I don't understand how you can want a man who didn't look at you and go OMG she's HAWT!!
I think this is largely a myth. For every one woman I hear of who so loathes her body that she can't stand to have a man compliment her, I know ten who crave positive, considerate attention and would love to find men who find them "hot". It's when you start to separate the body from the person that trouble crops up.

I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." And this, I think, is grounded in a deeply rooted kind of oppression that's exerted on fat women: we're supposed to accept ourselves unconditionally and rise above our troubles seamlessly, to smile and put on a good face as proof that we love ourselves and are therefore worthy of love; we're supposed to be goddesses (superhuman) and to be at the same grateful that others want to regard us as goddesses (and if we're not grateful, the "goddess" thing is exposed as a sham, and we see quickly enough just how much regard some people really hold us in.) That's a very thin line to walk.

I don't think any woman -- fat or not -- asks for too much. I think we should ask for the world -- anyone should -- and be willing to throw ourselves fully into living and loving in return. I'd say the same applies to any human being.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:36 PM   #42
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I don't think so. My requirements are simple: smart, attractive, monogamous, and treats me nicely. I haven't found one that returns my admiration, so... I'd rather be lonely than unhappy in an incompatible relationship.
K, I think you have a realistic list and a healthy outlook.

I've seen women who are expecting their partner to be politically active by working on a campaign, or read particular types of books or send them flowers weekly or give them diamonds just a couple months into the relationship. Just odd things...which in turn backfires on them.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #43
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I demand alot in my life, period. I expect the best and that spills over into my romantic/intimate relationship. I don't think that's unrealistic either. Thankfully, I'm happily partnered, but I think to a degree we are both pretty demanding. And as long as it works for our unit, that's really all that matters.

The thing is, "demanding" is pretty subjective. There are some things that I am not willing to put up with that might not matter much to other women.

If/when I was dating around, I wouldn't consider dating women that didn't dress well. Presentation isn't the be all end all, but it's pretty high on my must have list. The same goes for being completely out about one's sexual orientation; I don't tiptoe around for anyone. I'm not in the closet and at this point it would be hard for me to deal with that.

Also, I need for my partner to be highly educated and have gainful employment/career. It's something that's not negotiable for me. If I am doing well or trying make moves, my partner needs to be about the same thing. No scrubs!

And of course, being caring, warm, honest, a fierce protector of me, an uncanny ability to make me laugh (even when I'm mad), good with her hands (in more ways than one ), etc. are all things that made me swoon for my partner.

That said, I really hope that women who have pages upon pages of what they need in a partner are ready to/willing to step up to the plate to be all that for their loves as well. I find that sometimes women want the sun, the moon and the stars, but aren't really working with much. Like attracts like alot of times.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:23 PM   #44
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Historically I've not been demanding enough. Part of this is the submissive pleaser in me and part of this is probably dating wars Stockholm Syndrome. Somewhere along the line I got the message that I'm great as an exotic diversion, but I'm not worth keeping around afterward. I'm not proud of this, I'm just being honest with you.

In the past I tolerated losers because I feared I was too ugly or different to deserve real consideration from the kind of guys I should have been dating. I had major body image issues. I was also big on trying to see the best in people, so I would put up with shit. The weirdest part of all this is that I still secretly felt undesireable even when everybody was practically falling all over themselves to meet me and at least three male friends fought with their sig others over the fact that these guys would talk to/hang out with me and had copies of my corset pictures on their computers.

Before I gained the 150+ pounds (long story - I had been chubby as a kid, but misprescribed medication sent my weight FLYING in my mid-twenties...I still don't know my max, but it was well over 310) I got a LOT of attention. Of those who were interested in me, the ones I wanted were unavailable to me for one reason or another. It was really fucking weird to keep hearing how beautiful I was and how smart and how great while at the end of the day, none of my male friends and admirers gave enough of a shit to stick around. It's painfully ironic to know that you've spawned countless crushes and yet have never, ever been loved. My ex husband didn't even love me - he wanted a hot sugarmama! When I got fat, he lost interest.

Nowadays I tend to fall for detrimentals because that's just how the cards fall chemistrywise. I'm not sure if this qualifies as "too demanding" or "not demanding enough," but I'd rather put up with a hot flake than a boring stable person. I've dated "good catches," but most of them are abysmally dull. The only exception to that rule broke my heart. Everyone else is either already taken, into perfect/thin women, or so used to conventionality that they can't understand me at all.

Pretty don't bring you love.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:49 PM   #45
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Just to say: for sure lots of guys are too demanding when dating, too.
I agree with this. My best friend is a guy and the things he says. If a woman is not a "10", she has to have a lot to offer. Whereas if she is beautiful, he will overlook all her flaws.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:53 PM   #46
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And the funny thing about Jane Austen is I never found it romantic so much as a bunch of British gentry smiling politely while ripping each other apart verbally. At least you get breadsticks with the fake smiles at Olive Garden.
I can actually picture Henry Tilney taking Catherine to Olive Garden for dinner sometimes. You so totally know she's going to end up like her mother, the overworked vicar's wife with a gazillion kids. They, the Edward Ferrarses, and the Wentworths probably had the most "normal" marriages of the lot.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:01 PM   #47
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Believe it or not, looks are not important to me. Don't get me wrong, I like someone that dresses nice. But I am more interested in a man who can stimulate my mind and have things in common with. My mom raised me to believe you should only date someone you can grow with and learn from. I tend to follow that. But I am starting to think that wanting a mate who has steady employment, lives on his own, pays their bills, focused and has no baby mama drama is asking too much. Nothing turns me off more than a person that has no clue of what they will be doing in 5 years nor making any plans for it.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:34 PM   #48
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Believe it or not, looks are not important to me. Don't get me wrong, I like someone that dresses nice. But I am more interested in a man who can stimulate my mind and have things in common with. My mom raised me to believe you should only date someone you can grow with and learn from. I tend to follow that. But I am starting to think that wanting a mate who has steady employment, lives on his own, pays their bills, focused and has no baby mama drama is asking too much. Nothing turns me off more than a person that has no clue of what they will be doing in 5 years nor making any plans for it.
I can agree with alot of that. I need to feel like I can grow and experience things with a person. I need to be able to be open and vulnerable too. I am very very sensitive and I need to feel like there's a trust there so I can share and so can my partner. I need the freedom to have my partner see me naked (emotionally/psychologically/spiritually). And while I know that my honey is a sexy beast lol, it's her mind, her personality that has me going.

I think I am very lucky in that my lover is indeed my best friend; she's my homie. We truly enjoy each other; I'm in love with the human being she is. We can do nothing or we can have an extravagant night out -- we have fun regardless. We share the best laughs, we cry, we fight (fair!), we poke fun at each other...we enjoy learning and experiencing new things with each other. And the truth is, I'm her biggest fan. I've always believed in her because I know what she's capable of and even when she's feeling like she's not at her personal best I am there as a rock/pillar of support. Growing old with her will be so good, so sweet. I count my blessings everyday, for sure.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:44 PM   #49
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I think this is largely a myth. For every one woman I hear of who so loathes her body that she can't stand to have a man compliment her, I know ten who crave positive, considerate attention and would love to find men who find them "hot". It's when you start to separate the body from the person that trouble crops up.

I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." And this, I think, is grounded in a deeply rooted kind of oppression that's exerted on fat women: we're supposed to accept ourselves unconditionally and rise above our troubles seamlessly, to smile and put on a good face as proof that we love ourselves and are therefore worthy of love; we're supposed to be goddesses (superhuman) and to be at the same grateful that others want to regard us as goddesses (and if we're not grateful, the "goddess" thing is exposed as a sham, and we see quickly enough just how much regard some people really hold us in.) That's a very thin line to walk.

snipped...
I agree with this 100%.

I would LOVE to find a man that thought I was hot n' sexy for both my fat body and my sweet ass mind. I wouldn't think he was strange or weird for liking my fat. I'd think it was AWESOME.

As for the other bolded point - I've been on Dims for only a short while but I've noticed that "Goddess" expectation (I'm sure it exists elsewhere - just haven't really seen it). I find that the expectation of being "confident" and totally accepting of myself and my body as fat woman - well it feels to me pretty oppressive. If I'm not careful it can make me feel like the slightest misstep or perceived insecurity that I may express and I'll be another BBW who hates their body. Rounded up and discounted because I don't fit into someone's ideal. It is an expectation that is entirely too much to live up to in my opinion.

Are we not all works in progress? I am not perfect. Period. But, I still am a goddess in my own way.

Damnit.

Sorry... Ms. Fascinita hit a hot button for me.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:32 PM   #50
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As for the other bolded point - I've been on Dims for only a short while but I've noticed that "Goddess" expectation (I'm sure it exists elsewhere - just haven't really seen it). I find that the expectation of being "confident" and totally accepting of myself and my body as fat woman - well it feels to me pretty oppressive. If I'm not careful it can make me feel like the slightest misstep or perceived insecurity that I may express and I'll be another BBW who hates their body. Rounded up and discounted because I don't fit into someone's ideal. It is an expectation that is entirely too much to live up to in my opinion.

Are we not all works in progress? I am not perfect. Period. But, I still am a goddess in my own way.
Absolutely- I remember feeling this especially keenly when I first joined dims. I've even heard FAs on dims state that a BBW who isn't "confident" in the hyperbolic sense that you're describing is just another "fat chick." Ick.

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