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Old 08-19-2009, 08:45 PM   #51
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I don't want to be a goddess. That idea actually makes me a little bit uncomfortable, to be honest. I'll "settle" for being someone's princess. (And yes, I like the Disney girls--but my princess ideal came from the classic A Little Princess, where the idea was to pretend in order to behave like your own ideal, even when it isn't easy to live up to your principles and expectations of yourself.) It's a nice pedestal but it isn't too high for me to reach--and if I fall I won't break anything (except whatever's under me).

I think I do have high standards, and I wonder if they're too high. On the other hand, I've had a serious reminder of why standards are important; I decided to give a guy a chance on a second date, and then a few more, even though I told him at the beginning that his smoking was probably a deal breaker for me. (The probably only because he told me he would not smoke around me, since it bothered me.) It got to the point where I realized I really couldn't deal with the smoking anymore, or the feeling that he was prioritizing smoking over being with me (for example, he couldn't afford the gas to drive an hour and see me on my turf, but he could still go and buy a few packs of, as my friend put it, EVIL DEATH STICKS). I admit, I was a bit carried away by the exhileration of finally being desired, and I did have fun with him when he wasn't smoking. He even tried to keep it away from me on the second date...or the third wouldn't have happened at all. But it would have been so much easier to end it after the first date...easier on me, and easier on him. I knew from the beginning that it couldn't go anywhere so long as he continued to smoke; there's no way I could live with a smoker, because I really can't breathe around it. Yet I decided to see how it went...

I dunno. I have high standards but I don't think they're unreasonable. I was lucky enough to see a pretty good marriage in my parents' relationship, so I know that it's possible. I'm just beginning to doubt it's possible for me, in this particular day and age, to find what I'm looking for. I don't really care about chocolates and diamonds (though cheesecake and sparklies are nice)...mostly I want someone to cuddle with, build a family with, create traditions with, and face the future with. Somebody who can both support me and depend on me in various spheres. Someone who is willing to love me as an action verb (and not get too annoyed if I throw out a big word here and there--I am a teacher, after all). The traits I most desire are integrity, geekiness, responsibility, and liking me--a lot. (For compatibility reasons...no smoking. Also Christian, and American, and not a drug addict/alcholic. And yeah, I'd like him to be at least as tall as me. That's my shallow end speaking. I get tired of feeling like I'm bigger than everyone all the time.) But I could forgive most things on my "wants" list, I think, for someone who really loved me and cared about me. I'd like someone who'd love to dance with me...but if he really hates dancing, snuggles on the couch would be fine.

I do miss the snuggles with Mr. Smoker. They were quite pleasant. (Incidentally, he was a BHM.)
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:59 PM   #52
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I love the dialog going on here ladies. You have all made excellent points. I have a ton of respect for all of you.

...I think for myself, since I didn't start dating in earnest till after I turned 30, I still kind of feel like I'm playing catch up. I just find it odd that I'm only just now figuring out this stuff in a way that really makes sense for me, and I really wondered how much of that had to do with being fat. I feel like all the responses from the women here validates some feeling I don't quite know how to express right now....Gives me a lot to think about.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:28 AM   #53
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Everyone should have a basic core of what they want in a partner..If it sounds demanding to others then that is just to bad,because you will want what you want,no way around that....Same moral standards,no smoking,no cussing,Christianity,sexual preferences and so on and so on..It's when you get to the character flaws that you have to ask yourself if you are willing to accept them or not..Be it bad manners,bad hygiene,low self esteem,etc..Just do not jump head first into a relationship thinking this is the one and if I can just change a few things about them it will be bliss,that is not going to happen not unless the other person really wants to change..
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:29 AM   #54
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I sometimes wonder if my standards are too high.. I rarely find someone that I am interested in that is also interested in me, and when I do it seems to not take long at all before I "find" their flaws and can't stand them. I'm never 100% happy in a relationship.. I always seem to have this nagging at the back of my mind like, are you sure you're happy, are you sure he's good enough, etc. etc. I always break things off before I really give them a good try I think.

I now find myself in by far, the happiest relationship of my life. I still doubt it sometimes but I think that's just my nature. I try to remind myself that no one is perfect and no relationship is 100% problem-free.

As far as characteristics of a mate go, there are very few things that he/she must have/be and I don't think those are unreasonable (in college or went to college and/or has a good job, doesn't party too much, hasn't been arrested, intelligent, etc.) I have plenty of preferences but I make exceptions all the time.. it's all about the person as a whole, the complete package. I prefer thin, tall boys but I once dated someone who was roughly the same size as me and an inch shorter because we clicked on a lot of other levels. I love boys who enjoy the same music as me but my current boyfriend listens to reggae almost exclusively (nothing against reggae - it's alright, just not what I normally listen to) because there are way more important things about him that I like.

In general, I don't think BBWs are too demanding when it comes to dating. Some may be, but I wouldn't say a higher percentage than of just all women as a whole or all people as a whole. Also, I'd like to point out that I've in the real world, as in non-Dims BBWs I've noticed the exact opposite, many girls stay with guys who don't meet what most people would consider basic qualifications of a potential mate (respectful, honest, doesn't cheat, etc.) because they feel like they won't find anyone else.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:57 AM   #55
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I have a confession to make

For years men who were not related to me were these terrifying, infuriating, delicious creatures I didn't have a hope in hell of understanding, enjoying or attracting in any possible way. And honestly, I don't think I'm quite over that feeling. The only men I knew were my brother and father - I went to an all girls convent school, lived in an all girls residence in university and now live with two female room-mates. When I was younger I never ever made an effort to meet guys outside of my journalism class mates - and those were forced on me because we had to do assignments together. My male friends are only online - the male people I socialise with are other people's friends.

This thread has really got me thinking hard about myself in relation to the opposite sex and I don't know, I got kinda worried LOL! It's like I thought I was sane and then woke up and found myself in a straitjacket... Yes I've had sex but I've had next to nothing in common with the people I've slept with and to be honest I think we found each other not terribly interesting outside of the sheets. I'm in love with a boy who lives on the other side of the planet - and I've begun wandering now if I'm only into him because he's far away and not real and can remain fantasy perfect in my head

I know I've come a really long way from the days of feeling like a cooked tomatoe about to burst its skin when I was in the company of men I didn't know but clearly not far enough...Damn you Dims! All this introspection is giving me indigestion
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:08 AM   #56
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...Snipped...I think for myself, since I didn't start dating in earnest till after I turned 30, I still kind of feel like I'm playing catch up...Snipped...
^^^This^^^

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...This thread has really got me thinking hard about myself in relation to the opposite sex and I don't know, I got kinda worried LOL! It's like I thought I was sane and then woke up and found myself in a straitjacket... Yes I've had sex but I've had next to nothing in common with the people I've slept with and to be honest I think we found each other not terribly interesting outside of the sheets. I'm in love with a boy who lives on the other side of the planet - and I've begun wandering now if I'm only into him because he's far away and not real and can remain fantasy perfect in my head
*sigh* ^^^This Too.^^^

Except in my case, I rarely HAD male influence growing up. My dad was in a car accident when I was two, and while I saw him for the next 17 years, he wasn't exactly in the position to be a dad. I had both grandpa's around, and some uncles, but none of them provided a male influence that made me 100% comfortable around me in certain situations.

Even now, if I go to a friend's house and meet their parents, I have a hard time not feeling dread when I meet their father. Men of a certain age start to scare me and make me uncomfortable, which is part of the reason I've always gone for younger guys. Once they hit my age or older, I have a mental block in place and have an EXTREMELY hard time getting past that.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, the internet has sort of been my best friend/ worst enemy when it comes to men. I've mixed myself up with quite the gaggle of interesting fellows, from all across the world... and I think that what Tau says above is very true for me.

In the past I chose to do that because they are far away. They're not a part of my everyday life and have no real influence...also I can only see the parts that they're willing to show me, so they remain perfect. That isn't to say that I would have been opposed to having them come visit, or what have you... just that I accepted their excuses more readily because the thought of ruining the fantasy was scary too.

lol I hate it when I see a post and I'm like OMG, I have to respond to it, and then I start typing and I have to question what the hell I'm talking about. Too bad... I'm submitting anyway lol
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:42 AM   #57
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I sometimes wonder if my standards are too high.. I rarely find someone that I am interested in that is also interested in me, and when I do it seems to not take long at all before I "find" their flaws and can't stand them. I'm never 100% happy in a relationship.. I always seem to have this nagging at the back of my mind like, are you sure you're happy, are you sure he's good enough, etc. etc. I always break things off before I really give them a good try I think.

Gah! You are so gonna hate me for saying this and PLEASE don't take it the wrong way.

You are young, you are still learning about yourself and growing as a person. It makes sense that you'd not be 100% happy in a relationship because truly deep down what you want in a relationship is probably changing (even if you don't notice it) which each new thing you learn about who you are as an adult woman.

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:34 AM   #58
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I do have particularily high standards for a mate... He has to be not only good looking, but smart, have a good head on his shoulders, but those shoulders better be ready for me to cry on them. He can't play video games or be selfish in any way. He pretty much has to follow me around all day holding on to my hips, kissing my neck and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Not only that, he should be one to put food on the table and be able to support me completely, even though I'll insist he doesn't....
Don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:31 AM   #59
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I've been musing about this subject since I last replied. Maybe, in addition to seriously re-assessing what qualities we want in a partner, we need to re-assess what role a romantic relationship plays in our lives, and what we expect it to do for us. Just a thought.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:35 AM   #60
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.
haha the funny part is that i'm not lol Which may prove the point that I have an unrealistic expectation of what the perfect man is!
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:30 AM   #61
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I've been musing about this subject since I last replied. Maybe, in addition to seriously re-assessing what qualities we want in a partner, we need to re-assess what role a romantic relationship plays in our lives, and what we expect it to do for us. Just a thought.
Yes.

I honestly think so many women are truly lonely. Some of those women are in relationships and some are not. Some of us really hate being single because we think it says something negative about us or it could be that we don't like being in the company of ourselves much so having someone else to focus on kinda puts a bandage on that gaping wound. Alot of women think that once they're in a relationship magically they'll become happy or a big source of their discomfort will disappear. I don't think we do our homework when it comes to getting to know ourselves and figuring out what we really want. A romantic relationship isn't a cure all or salve for our issues. I think that's why when things don't work out or when idealized versions of our partners come crashing down, we find ourselves so upset. I know some women who think once they find a partner their lives will finally begin and honestly, I feel sorry for them. Its a grave mistake to put that much stock into a relationship like that and frankly, I'd never want to have to live up to being my partner's everything. It would only be a set up for failure and huge disappointments. Growing and learning has taught me that even if I didn't have my partnership, I can and do derive pleasure from the other close relationships I have with friends and family.

My relationship gives me a great deal of satisfaction because its something I work at everyday. I don't think of my partner as my knight in shining armor or any of that. We share a life together, but we still make an effort to keep pieces of our individualism in tact. And its worked for us.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:17 AM   #62
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I worry more that women are demanding less when starting a relationship.

I mean is it so bad to ask that a man has good hygiene, good morals (honesty, faithfulness, kindness), a job, and is able to balance his checkbook?

I met my (now separated) partner online. He told me many many things that were untrue about him which I inconveniently found out after he moved himself into my life. Turns out, he never learned to drive, did not know how to write a check, and his idea of a good time is spending all day in front of a computer.

Even if the sex is good. Even if he works at it; sex won't always be as interesting as it was those first few months. All those exceptions you make for good sex or animal attraction will become glaring as you settle into a relationship.

SO if you find yourself saying in your mind, "Oh so he really doesn't like _____" or "He said he wasn't picky, but he won't eat this, this, this, this, and this." And then when you find yourself making excuses for his behavior, his lack of a job, or his laziness, SLOW DOWN and THINK.

I would make a list of your absolute "NOs!" and stick to them. Be demanding when it comes to your self-preservation. And do it before he is moving into your house.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:18 AM   #63
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I've given this topic some thought. I don't think I'm a very demanding person in general. My wants are simple. I don't much care about money or luxury or anything like that. I want someone who is going to love me for the person I am and not be afraid to tell me when I've done something to annoy him. Don't be afraid to be honest with me about things. I'm a big girl, I won't break. I don't want to be loved FOR my weight, and I don't want to be loved DESPITE it. I want to be accepted as a total package...the weight may or may not fluctuate.

I think one of my biggest "demands" is that my man stand up for me...I've never had that.

l just want to be treated with the same respect and courtesy that I treat the person I'm with. Do things with me, don't just treat me like a fucking houseplant and let me dehydrate.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:22 AM   #64
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I've given this topic some thought. I don't think I'm a very demanding person in general. My wants are simple. I don't much care about money or luxury or anything like that. I want someone who is going to love me for the person I am and not be afraid to tell me when I've done something to annoy him. Don't be afraid to be honest with me about things. I'm a big girl, I won't break. I don't want to be loved FOR my weight, and I don't want to be loved DESPITE it. I want to be accepted as a total package...the weight may or may not fluctuate.

I think one of my biggest "demands" is that my man stand up for me...I've never had that.

l just want to be treated with the same respect and courtesy that I treat the person I'm with. Do things with me, don't just treat me like a fucking houseplant and let me dehydrate.
Amen Sista!!
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:38 AM   #65
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Gah! You are so gonna hate me for saying this and PLEASE don't take it the wrong way.

You are young, you are still learning about yourself and growing as a person. It makes sense that you'd not be 100% happy in a relationship because truly deep down what you want in a relationship is probably changing (even if you don't notice it) which each new thing you learn about who you are as an adult woman.

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.
No, I think you're completely right. That's why although it is very tempting to rush things with my boyfriend, I try not to.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:43 AM   #66
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" I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." "

That's my opinon on it.

If the sole basis of somebody's attraction to me hinges on one physical attribute, that's just not good enough for me to consider entering into a relationship with them.

It's the tunnel vision of one very specific deal maker or breaker that I have a problem with. Because people change. Bodies change. Lives change.

If my partner is only attracted to, aroused by, and satisfied with something I no longer have or with something that is causing me pain and suffering, where does that leave our relationship? I've seen that scenario play out in real life and have seen the anguish other women have gone through in that situation. I have no desire to place myself in that position. So, I choose not to get involved with anybody who has any very narrow preferences for physical attributes.

Doesn't mean I don't like myself. Doesn't mean my relationships are in any way inferior. It just means that having a partner who is exclusively attracted to one physical attribute, which can change by choice or chance, is not a gamble I wish to take.

Tracy
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:47 AM   #67
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One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.


I could have written that...word-for-freakin-word.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:50 AM   #68
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I'll probably get tomatoes thrown at me for this but ahead I plow! I do understand your fears and I use to have them but..

Tau,Mszwebs you both need to get off line and into the real world..Get out there and talk to men,you don't have to bed them or even date them..Just be friendly,talk to them and it will help get your over your fears of them..The more you are around men the easier it will be for you to understand them and yourselves..The more men you talk to,the easier it will be for you to gauge what type of man you truly want..I know having online friends is great but sometimes you need to have a real face to face with someone..Personally I think talking to older men helps a lot,someone in their 40's or maybe early 50's..

I'll admit I do not go as much as I use to..I stay at home more then what I need to but with my medical problems I am not always a nice person to be around...Hell I haven't had a date in years but that is a whole different story..
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:52 AM   #69
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I think there's a big difference between "must have"s and "would like"s in terms of what we look for in a partner/mate/whatever term that makes me sound like a National Geographic special narrator, and we - people in general, not just fatties - frequently inadvertently blur that line. It's an important distinction, though. I'm 5'11", so I would like someone around my height or taller. But when I stop and think about how many great guys I'd be ruling out by having some sillyish (to me) height requirement, I'm reminded that that's a would like, not a must have, and fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things. It's just not that important to me (though I respect it being important to others. Everyone has their thing). I also would like a guy who can fix things/work with his hands and is musically talented, both being odd little kinks of mine, but if a guy came along who just felt right, I'd make do with home improvement shows, my iPod, and be blissfully happy with my non-handy, musically inept short dude who knows how to make me smile.

So for me, the list of true must-haves is non-negotiable, but quite short. (Yet somehow I remain single, so take all of this with a considerable grain of salt).
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:09 PM   #70
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So for me, the list of true must-haves is non-negotiable, but quite short.
Agreed...the physical attributes and certain personality traits and interests are not so important as emotional stability and certain other personality traits. I can take a tone-deaf guy over a musician easily...but I can't take one who will take his mother's side over mine...
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:15 PM   #71
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I, personally NEED to be loved, touched, caressed, kissed, and just plain SHOWN that I am loved and that he is attracted to me. Slap my ass, pinch it, come up behind me and put your arms around me...all that stuff. Just let me KNOW in a physical way...it means much more to me than just "I love you".

Last edited by olwen; 08-20-2009 at 11:05 PM. Reason: removed quote from unapproved post.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:27 PM   #72
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I'm 5'11", so I would like someone around my height or taller. But when I stop and think about how many great guys I'd be ruling out by having some sillyish (to me) height requirement, I'm reminded that that's a would like, not a must have, and fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

I'm the same height and that was a conclusion I came to very early in life as I was always taller than most men/boys that I met. My ex-husband is 5'2" and my current partner is 5'9".
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:24 PM   #73
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Agreed...the physical attributes and certain personality traits and interests are not so important as emotional stability and certain other personality traits. I can take a tone-deaf guy over a musician easily...but I can't take one who will take his mother's side over mine...
Bingo. You're brilliant, and not only because you agree with me.
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I'm the same height and that was a conclusion I came to very early in life as I was always taller than most men/boys that I met. My ex-husband is 5'2" and my current partner is 5'9".
Yep, same here! When I was in high school and such the height thing seemed terribly important, and then my ex-husband came along, who was 5'8". It was funny, the only time I ever noticed the height difference between us was in photos or if we stood together in front of a mirror. And even then, my reaction was always, "whoa, I'm tall!", not "whoa, he's short!". But then, that's my usual reaction to seeing myself next to just about anyone.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:04 PM   #74
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Personally, I've not been demanding enough. I spent way too long in a problematic relationship; it wasn't a nightmare-- we had some good times, and we loved each other-- but I was unhappy. And the sad part was that I resigned myself to that unhappiness, because I just assumed that nobody else would love me like he did (willfully ignoring all the emotionally toxic bullshit that went on, of course). It's shocking how happy I've been since we broke up.

I think I'm more discriminating now, but also what I'm looking for (and what I've learned to avoid) has changed-- like hey, I learned that it's important to make sure he respects me as an equal! How 'bout that.
Bingo.....I love StarWitness....this woman says so much truth...or the truth as I know it anyway.

I want to tell you that I have "never been picky"....but I look back and that's not really true. I just avoided "vanilla" or rather, what I saw to be, "too good for me and probably will always look down on me and never understand me anyway".
Men from backgrounds similar to mine....seemed to always be my first criteria. They are "safe" you know.....no need to explain things, no need to feel misunderstood......and I always thought they felt the same way.

I wasn't "picky"...but did have an agenda as far as what he MUST be for me to feel comfortable....and I just let the rest fall into place. That has always been easy for me.....and always landed me in relationships. Bad ones....but they were amazingly easy to find.

That knowledge has me analyzing how I am now. Funny, I still wouldn't call myself "picky" but rather "wiser".
I am as "open" as I ever was......just know now what it is that I DON'T want....and won't tolerate. Finding someone to trust has gotten harder ...because I can smell the shit coming a mile away now. I don't think of myself as bitter/hurt/angry....just don't feel the compulsion or even the need to rush anymore. There are fates....and relationships...much worse than being alone can ever be.
Dating was easier when I was younger and more optimistic....but life is easier now that I watch for the warning signs.

I don't know.....I think a person NEEDS a set of standards....and I don't judge, or even feel like I could judge, someone else's requirements. We all want what we want....the menfolk don't always seem to be on the same page though. That seems like more of a problem than having standards, IMO.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:13 PM   #75
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I dunno, when it comes to relationships I feel kind of like I'm trying to play monopoly on a chess board. Like I don't know the rules, or the rules I do know aren't the ones anyone else is playing by.

It probably doesn't help that I'm 29 and going through relationship stuff most people do when they're 14.
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