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Old 08-21-2009, 10:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by wrench13 View Post
When the ex and I were talking with the marriage councilor, he made it clear that women are attracted to power, success and wealth. My ex-wife agreed 100%. My own opinion was that personal deveopement, growth and personality were what makes for attraction.
I was ridiculed by both, that I had no idea what makes the world go round, that i was ignoring what statstics and research showed. Now this was a psycologist who has written several books on this topic. Needless to say, we were divorced soon after.
I have seen very little though to disuade me that they were wrong, in the years after. IMHO, it s the rare jewel of a woman who agrees with my perspective.

As a male FA, I look not only for the big soft body, but an agile mind, eager to learn for learnings sake, empathy for people, and a sense of wonder at all that life can offer.
Am I being picky or expecting too much? Apparently so.
That man(see I didn't call him a psychologist) and your ex-wife are full of shit....Sorry but not every woman in this world is a gold digger looking for the best prize and that is the type of woman your ex-wife described..

Some women want a genuine man that will be faithful and loving,that will treat his woman like she is the best thing in his life,that will help provide for their family and not expect her to be his personal slave,cook,babysitter or housekeeper..Someone that will still want her when she has passed her "prime" and wants to grow old with her..There are a lot of simple women out in this world,who do not want nor need the mansion,the jewelry,the house on the beach,the yearly vacations to Paris or where ever..Who want and need love,not superficial love but deep long lasting love..You just have to pick through the bargain bin like wrestling guy said to find that special jewel..
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:57 AM   #27
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I've been reading this thread both here, and in the BBW forum, and find this topic fascinating.

For my part, I think that generally, there should be some fundamental guidelines for what is acceptable and unacceptable for you in a relationship. Without those, you could be going down a road that may end up becoming a heap of emotional trouble in the future.

With that said, I also think that most men & women in general set unrealistic parameters for what they're looking for. I've seen personal ads that look like a laundry list, basically saying to a prospective date "don't even bother, unless.....", and wonder how may people actually respond with their resume that fits the bill. Perhaps those folks are happy to be on their own, and don't care, or events in their life have brought them to the point where they feel a need to be so selective. Either way, it eliminates a lot of people.

I always wanted a house on the beach in the Carribean. I own a house in New Jersey. Do I dislike my house because it's not in the Bahamas? Absolutely not. That's my point. Sometimes we don't really know what can make us happy, simply because we just haven't been there yet. My suggestion is, try it, you may just love it.

I've always held the thought that dating & relationships are like going through the bargain bin at your local department store. You won't know what's in it until you look, and often have to go through all the crap to get to the stuff that's just right for you. You can at least enjoy looking.
You are right..
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:25 PM   #28
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Likewise if you're a tall, rich, good looking guy you'll likely be able to date any type of girl you fancy. If you're just average some types will be out of your league, and, if you're the box dweller your romantic options will be very limited. My basic point is just that people would be much happier if they face reality and not be unreasonable.

If you only make 30K a year you wouldn't shop for a million dollar beach house. Likewise, if you're not good looking and/or rich and/or otherwise superlative its foolish to think that you'll be able to land an exceptional mate.
I'm generally the cynic, but this is just WRONG on so many levels! I don't where to begin. Any man who truly believes this either has a very low opinion of himself, or an even lower opinion of women, to assume that money and "good looks" are all that women care about. Isn't this the attitude of the Hollywood/media machine? It's what people say when they want to sell you something. Does BigMac work in PR for a plastic surgeon, or what? I'm sorry, but this societal worship of superficiality is exactly what has caused the problems that afflict many of us here. It's the attitude we fight on a daily basis. It's the last thing I expect to read on Dimensions. I think that's why people here have reacted so negatively to it.

Furthermore, it is most definitely NOT reality, at least for people that I know who are in successful relationships, whether they are thin or fat. Everyone has their preferences, but once you go beyond that, a relationship only works if you have some basis of shared goals and values, neither of which you can judge from appearance or from a bank account. These things have very little correlation with appearance or wealth. If someone rejects you solely because of your looks or money, then that person is NOT the right one for you. You wouldn't be happy with them anyway, regardless of any "superlative" superficial attributes.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:26 PM   #29
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Likewise if you're a tall, rich, good looking guy you'll likely be able to date any type of girl you fancy. If you're just average some types will be out of your league, and, if you're the box dweller your romantic options will be very limited. My basic point is just that people would be much happier if they face reality and not be unreasonable.

If you only make 30K a year you wouldn't shop for a million dollar beach house. Likewise, if you're not good looking and/or rich and/or otherwise superlative its foolish to think that you'll be able to land an exceptional mate.
I really do not understand your reasoning..I have read this over and over,even left it alone for a while trying to understand why you have this mind set..

It is a fallacy that the tall,rich,good looking man always gets the best women..Just because a man might find a certain woman attractive does not mean she feels the same way..Looks,money and height does not say what type of person they are,personality does..I have known a couple of these wealthy men that could not sustain a relationship because they were assholes..They had no compassion or empathy for anyone but themselves so they were left alone..

Richest,best looking girl in junior college dated the geekiest looking guy in the world..He was good to her,he would hold the door open for her,pull out her chair and made sure she always had what she needed at any given time..She was asked out by the rich and jocks but would turn them down to stay with the geek..Why? Because the geek understood her needs and she knew that he was a great guy..
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:58 PM   #30
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I really do not understand your reasoning..I have read this over and over,even left it alone for a while trying to understand why you have this mind set..

It is a fallacy that the tall,rich,good looking man always gets the best women..Just because a man might find a certain woman attractive does not mean she feels the same way..Looks,money and height does not say what type of person they are,personality does..I have known a couple of these wealthy men that could not sustain a relationship because they were assholes..They had no compassion or empathy for anyone but themselves so they were left alone..

Richest,best looking girl in junior college dated the geekiest looking guy in the world..He was good to her,he would hold the door open for her,pull out her chair and made sure she always had what she needed at any given time..She was asked out by the rich and jocks but would turn them down to stay with the geek..Why? Because the geek understood her needs and she knew that he was a great guy..
Its quite simple. Not everyone has access to the same number of potential mates. If you have lots of what most people perceive as positive traits (including but not limited to looks and money) you will have more potential mates from which to choose -- your dating pool will be larger if you will. Educated people with interesting careers will have more mating options than unemployed high school drop outs.

Your example of the pretty college girl who was propositioned by rich boys and jocks but chose the geek is totally consistent with my hypothesis. Because she was pretty and rich she could choose between the rich boys, the jocks, and the geeks. A less appealing or wealthy girl would not have had nearly as many choices.

I'm all for people finding soul mates and being happy (I'm married with four kids and a dog) all I'm saying is that people who want to be successful in the mating game would profit from a realistic assessment of their own desirability and then use this assessment to design and implement a search plan. Sorry if I sound clinical but as I said earlier I'm not the romantic type.

I'm not above taking my own advise. When I found myself a fat middle aged single father I didn't go Miami Beach or Malibu to look for a mate. Rather I found someone of roughly equal social standing with whom I clicked (a rather rare thing in its own right as I've been known to piss people off).
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:23 PM   #31
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Your example of the pretty college girl who was propositioned by rich boys and jocks but chose the geek is totally consistent with my hypothesis. Because she was pretty and rich she could choose between the rich boys, the jocks, and the geeks. A less appealing or wealthy girl would not have had nearly as many choices.
I'm just a dumb old not appealing not wealthy dude who is wondering who decides who is appealing. Would fat girls fall into the "not appealing" category?

The reason I ask this is that in my world, the fat girls are considered first choice, and they seem to be able to make all the choices they want.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:28 PM   #32
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I'm just a dumb old not appealing not wealthy dude who is wondering who decides who is appealing. Would fat girls fall into the "not appealing" category?

The reason I ask this is that in my world, the fat girls are considered first choice, and they seem to be able to make all the choices they want.
Good point



Oh, and gawd how I wish I knew how to twist, turn and select men the way that some men claim women do.....what's the big secret? Someone let me in on it please?
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:37 PM   #33
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I think alot of this has to do with the FACT (as in statistics can back me up here) that overall, Black men just don't have their sh!t together as well as Black women do in regards to having college degrees, gainful/secure employment and so forth. Because of this, Black men can have their pick of women and be HIGHLY demanding whereas Black women cannot.
I think it is irresponsible as well as naive to spout 'facts' about groups of people based on statistics that you couldn't be bothered finding, which in themselves would be utterly useless without the background knowledge of social, geographical and historical factors anyway. Statistics alone are utterly meaningless. (99% of me ponders suspiciously about American degrees now and thier co-relation between producing intelligent and rational people.)
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:38 PM   #34
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When the ex and I were talking with the marriage councilor, he made it clear that women are attracted to power, success and wealth. My ex-wife agreed 100%. My own opinion was that personal deveopement, growth and personality were what makes for attraction.
I was ridiculed by both, that I had no idea what makes the world go round, that i was ignoring what statstics and research showed. Now this was a psycologist who has written several books on this topic. Needless to say, we were divorced soon after.
That fully explains why I like men that play chess and have high rankings, eh?

I disagree.....I always wanted a partner....an equal....a friend. I don't care what the world says I want or should want.

Marriage counseling didn't save my marriage either....my own individual counseling helped to give me the self esteem to leave my ex-husband. Funny....counseling helped me make the right decision to save myself......

That's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.....

P.S. Good counselors don't take sides and ridicule, IMO.
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:54 PM   #35
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I'm not quite sure about the "if you're a seven, you'll end up with a seven etc." theory, because there is a self esteem factor involved. A nine may not be aware she is a nine, or not care she's a nine and give a six a chance.

See this is what happened to Bigmac. He was a seven that ended up with a 10 who didn't realize she was a 10.

Also, and for the record, I would like to add the following:

My dearest love claims that I "should have married someone else if I was looking for romance". And he is right, ifromance to me means cards, flowers, candlelight dinners, blah blah blah. But it doesn't. Don't get me wrong, that's all well and good if its what you want, and if it is, go find someone to give it to you.

But it isn't what I wanted. Romance to me is something else entirely. I think my husband is being romantic, when he wakes up early on Saturday and takes the baby out for the morning so that I can sleep in. When he washes and vacuums my car and then fills up the tank before bringing it home every weekend...well, that sets my heart all aflutter.

As to the OP, I think that high expectations are a must. But how high depends on the reasons for dating. Are you looking for a "good time" or a life partner? If its just a good time, then I guess it's not necessary to delve into a man's resume, education, family background, character, integrity, etc. If you are dating for the purpose of finding a potential mate, then you do need to consider these things, and "weed out" the ones that don't measure up. Everyone has a set of nonnegotiable expectations. Anyone who says otherwise is full it.
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:40 PM   #36
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Your example of the pretty college girl who was propositioned by rich boys and jocks but chose the geek is totally consistent with my hypothesis. Because she was pretty and rich she could choose between the rich boys, the jocks, and the geeks. A less appealing or wealthy girl would not have had nearly as many choices..

What does not appeal to 1 person might be very appealing to someone else so there are not set rules of what is appealing..Sorry but that argument does not wash..As the saying goes,"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...

You kind of remind me of older southern rich people with some of what you have said..You know the ones that did not want their children marrying below them in social standings..Every time I see a comment like this I think of the Long Hot Summer or Gone With the Wind..50 years ago that might have mattered but really in this day and age a bank account means nothing..A lot of the old rich families are not so rich any more..
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:48 PM   #37
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What does not appeal to 1 person might be very appealing to someone else so there are not set rules of what is appealing..Sorry but that argument does not wash..As the saying goes,"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...

You kind of remind me of older southern rich people with some of what you have said..You know the ones that did not want their children marrying below them in social standings..Every time I see a comment like this I think of the Long Hot Summer or Gone With the Wind..50 years ago that might have mattered but really in this day and age a bank account means nothing..A lot of the old rich families are not so rich any more..
Some people just have majority appeal. Sad but true. Classic example: Extroverted tall tanned slim sporty bubbly busty blonde with great skin, high cheekbones and perfect teeth. Why else would they put such girls on the cover of men's magazines and why are these girls top earners in commercial porn? Obviously FAs (or men who are into say, tiny goth girls or bottom-heavy Latinas) won't give her a second look but let's not forget that we are still the minority. Also, judging from the complaints I have seen around here, how many men who do find fat women attractive have the balls to actually date one and introduce her to his friends and family? Many people also think it is important to have a mate that people around them can accept or even better, envy and I would even say that most people feel this pressure to some extent. If your partner is a chronically unemployed drug-addicted dropout with a criminal record and an obvious physical deformity, how would you honestly feel about introducing him to your friends? Most FAs already get quite a bit of flak from others about our choice of partners - of course we want her to be worth it (to us).

Also, I hate to say this but don't you think there is some sort of hierachy even in the BBW community? Some paysite girls get twenty replies per picture post, others get none and there is probably a reason for this. The latter may well be the ideal for a select group of FAs, but these guys are clearly not the majority.

And yes, of course BBWs can pick and choose among drooling FAs, but we are not that common and not the easiest to identify outside of a bash.

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Old 08-21-2009, 11:59 PM   #38
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See this is what happened to Bigmac. He was a seven that ended up with a 10 who didn't realize she was a 10.
So what exactly makes you 3 points better than your husband?
Just for future reference... (the inherent pitfalls in answering this might just make it the nastiest question ever)
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:09 AM   #39
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So what exactly makes you 3 points better than your husband?
Just for future reference... (the inherent pitfalls in answering this might just make it the nastiest question ever)
Or........you could have asked her hubby why he said she should have married someone else. Sounded to me like she was just being playful back to him. *shrugs*
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:10 PM   #40
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So what exactly makes you 3 points better than your husband?
Just for future reference... (the inherent pitfalls in answering this might just make it the nastiest question ever)
Is this a serious question?? Have you SEEN me? (I'm kidding here of course.)


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Or........you could have asked her hubby why he said she should have married someone else. Sounded to me like she was just being playful back to him. *shrugs*
Yes. Thank you. I was just being playful with him. But if it must be said so that no one else misunderstands me...I don't think I am any better or any less than he is. He is the perfect man for me, and I am constantly assured by him that I am the perfect girl for him. He may not be the best match for some of the other ladies on this board (!) but I understand him quite well.
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Old 08-22-2009, 08:27 PM   #41
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What does not appeal to 1 person might be very appealing to someone else so there are not set rules of what is appealing..Sorry but that argument does not wash..As the saying goes,"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...

You kind of remind me of older southern rich people with some of what you have said..You know the ones that did not want their children marrying below them in social standings..Every time I see a comment like this I think of the Long Hot Summer or Gone With the Wind..50 years ago that might have mattered but really in this day and age a bank account means nothing..A lot of the old rich families are not so rich any more..
First I never said the good looking people with good jobs and lots of money can get anyone they want. Rather I said they had many more options.

As for your second point -- if my daughter brings home a a meth addicted tow truck driver -- hell yeh I'll be upset. Scarlet remained an aristocrat even when reduced to eating turnips. Anyone who says that social standing doesn't matter is deluding themselves. FYI my son's a senior at The University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:18 AM   #42
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Is this a serious question?? Have you SEEN me? (I'm kidding here of course.)

Yes. Thank you. I was just being playful with him. But if it must be said so that no one else misunderstands me...I don't think I am any better or any less than he is. He is the perfect man for me, and I am constantly assured by him that I am the perfect girl for him. He may not be the best match for some of the other ladies on this board (!) but I understand him quite well.
I was kidding too. It's a question that's impossible to answer. Asking it is kind of mean, and I thought it was funny.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:25 PM   #43
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I was kidding too. It's a question that's impossible to answer. Asking it is kind of mean, and I thought it was funny.
You're really just asking for it Mister......





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Old 08-23-2009, 04:36 PM   #44
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...
I'm all for people finding soul mates and being happy (I'm married with four kids and a dog) all I'm saying is that people who want to be successful in the mating game would profit from a realistic assessment of their own desirability and then use this assessment to design and implement a search plan. Sorry if I sound clinical but as I said earlier I'm not the romantic type.

...
What you're saying overall isn't completely off base Bigmac, but I think you are not accounting for a person's potential... or the ability of the "less desirable" to make themselves more desirable in other ways such as how they dress, their personalities or the variables of what a potential suitor seeks. Some people are attracted to the "geeks", they may be people in a "higher class" of potential mates... there are infinite combinations of how people of varying "quality" might interact. Saying that someone must settle for someone at some level of desirability is almost asserting that there is some sort of caste system that exists as to the level of a person's desirability. I think the variables are too great to make such a blanket assessment as to how "realistic" a person can be in finding a potential S.O. I still think it comes down to one's desire to find someone up to their standards... to make themselves more desirable if they have the inclination to do so... and as I said earlier, there will need to be some compromise because I don't think there is such a thing as "the perfect mate".
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:30 PM   #45
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I really do not understand your reasoning..I have read this over and over,even left it alone for a while trying to understand why you have this mind set..

It is a fallacy that the tall,rich,good looking man always gets the best women.




So true- sometimes they are "On the Lam"
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:48 PM   #46
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When bbws/bhms talk about the kind of person they want, they say things like "I want a man/woman who wants me for me - a guy/gal who wants me despite my fat, or at least more than my fat." And as a result they trust no one and reject every overture.
Wellll, I didn't distrust everyone, and I was perfectly receptive to certain overtures, but in retrospect my expectations were probably beyond unrealistic. Yes I wanted someone who wanted me for me, who wanted me despite my fat -- but who wanted my fat too. Geez, could I have been any more contradictory? That explains some of my goofier dates back in the goofy 1970s. Oh, the stories I could tell... They weren't funny then, but they sure are funny now...

I did have a list of attributes I wanted in a man. However, apart from certain key expectations which were non-negotiable, my saving grace was to be flexible and receptive to compromise, in the best sense of the word. In no way was that "settling" or lowering my expectations. Instead, it was "adjusting" my expections for someone who met or exceeded certain alternate criteria I hadn't considered.

What blew apart some of my expectations? The man I married turned out to be the best friend I ever had, that's what! I never thought to include that on my list of requirements, but now it just seems soooo obvious. But before I felt too stupid, Art said he never thought he's marry his best friend either, and he never expected to find her inside the biggest female package he ever met. Magic moment: During our first "kiss and grope" session, I expected Art to fondle my breasts at any minute, but he began to fondle my belly instead. Me: "What are you doing?" He: "I want to get to know all of you." Good answer!

So despite my contradictory expectations in my confused youth, somehow I really did meet and marry someone who wanted me for me, despite my fat -- and yet who found my fat so intriguing he couldn't resist it. Sometimes in the middle of the night I wake up, look over and can't believe how lucky I am. Unless he's hogging the blankets on a cold night, and then it's war!
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:12 AM   #47
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Some people just have majority appeal. Sad but true. Classic example: Extroverted tall tanned slim sporty bubbly busty blonde with great skin, high cheekbones and perfect teeth. Why else would they put such girls on the cover of men's magazines and why are these girls top earners in commercial porn? Obviously FAs (or men who are into say, tiny goth girls or bottom-heavy Latinas) won't give her a second look but let's not forget that we are still the minority. Also, judging from the complaints I have seen around here, how many men who do find fat women attractive have the balls to actually date one and introduce her to his friends and family? Many people also think it is important to have a mate that people around them can accept or even better, envy and I would even say that most people feel this pressure to some extent. If your partner is a chronically unemployed drug-addicted dropout with a criminal record and an obvious physical deformity, how would you honestly feel about introducing him to your friends? Most FAs already get quite a bit of flak from others about our choice of partners - of course we want her to be worth it (to us).

Also, I hate to say this but don't you think there is some sort of hierachy even in the BBW community? Some paysite girls get twenty replies per picture post, others get none and there is probably a reason for this. The latter may well be the ideal for a select group of FAs, but these guys are clearly not the majority.

And yes, of course BBWs can pick and choose among drooling FAs, but we are not that common and not the easiest to identify outside of a bash.
What is so interesting about the type of blond you describe is that they were not the "main stream" attractive women until the mid 70's to late 70's..A lot of the pin-up girls before then were brunettes,etc,as long as they were attractive and curvy they were adored..The best marketing scheme a beer company ever did was introduce the blond cheerleader to a national audience..That is when the idea woman began to change..Then in all of the men's magazine from that time on showed the blond bombshell as the one always selling what ever product..
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:14 AM   #48
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First I never said the good looking people with good jobs and lots of money can get anyone they want. Rather I said they had many more options.

As for your second point -- if my daughter brings home a a meth addicted tow truck driver -- hell yeh I'll be upset. Scarlet remained an aristocrat even when reduced to eating turnips. Anyone who says that social standing doesn't matter is deluding themselves. FYI my son's a senior at The University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa.

I hope you would be more upset over the fact he was a meth addict then him being a tow truck driver..People have to start some where and lots of time that is at the bottom of the ladder and work their way up..

Sorry but you using a fictional character says a lot to me..So I am done with this..Thanks!
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:56 PM   #49
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:09 PM   #50
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So.... are (F)FAs overly selective when it comes to looking for a BBW/BHM?
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