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Old 10-09-2009, 06:37 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=katorade;1291872]

Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.

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It's real simple. If you eat fish, you're NOT a vegetarian.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:09 AM   #52
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[QUOTE=lypeaches;1293180]
Quote:
Originally Posted by katorade View Post

Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.

QUOTE]

It's real simple. If you eat fish, you're NOT a vegetarian.
I realize I'm not a vegetarian because I have decided to incorporate fish into my diet a few times per month. However, I think it is important to understand that many people with diets similar to mine are referred to as vegetarians because it is the easiest way to explain it. It isn't to impress people, or to act more holy and righteous than they actually are. It is just easier. If someone I don't know very well is inviting me for dinner and they ask if I have any food preferences, I usually just tell them I'm vegetarian instead of getting into the fact that I eat a very limited amount of fish per month, so if the dinner is toward the end of the month and it incorporates fish, I won't eat it...
Also, if a person has committed to eating a very limited amount of fish, as I have, then a lot of people don't actually see the person eating the fish products and they may have the misconception that the person is a strict vegetarian when that isn't the case.
When I'm responding to a wedding invitation and the only plate choices are poultry, beef, or vegetarian... I check the vegetarian box. When I'm at a restaurant with extremely limited choices....I'm looking at the vegetarian options. Ordering pizza? I get the vegetarian. Already consumed the few portions of fish that I allot myself per month? Then the rest of the month I eat vegetarian. So when someone refers to me as a vegetarian, I just let it slide. It's easier.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:12 AM   #53
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I don't have a problem with vegetarianism or veganism. I have been trying to figure out good ways to make meatless dishes for dinner parties for some time now-- I have been known to eat tofu-based chinese food, too. Also, there is a company that makes the most fabulous vegan "chicken" noodle soup cup ever. I would take it over a can of Campbell's, actually...and then have a giant burger for dinner.

What I cannot stand is militant veggies who sit there screaming about how terrible meat is and omg that sandwich will kill you omg. I think that is why some normal veggies have trouble with overbearing meat-eaters-- it's a backlash from some psycho who wouldn't shut up. Eat your food, I'll eat mine.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:21 AM   #54
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Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood. We're not talking about people who do it to save an explanation...folks who sincerely believe they're vegetarians.

PS. I am no longer a vegetarian, as I no longer believe that it's a SIN to eat meat....but at least half my meals are still vegetarian as I enjoy the food.

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Old 10-09-2009, 12:59 PM   #55
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I just have a silly story that goes along with this.

Speaking the other day about dumb questions vegetarians get -

I was talking to some co-workers and mentioned that Justin was a vegetarian.

Co-Worker R asks: "Does he eat fish?"

Me: "Nope, R, nothing with a head."

Co-Worker R: "Do fish have heads?"

Me: "Uhm...(speechless for a minute)...yeah, that's where there eyes are."

Co-Worker R: "oh yeah..."


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Originally Posted by lypeaches View Post
Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:56 PM   #56
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I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:15 PM   #57
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I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).
Okay, well, I have. Many times. I'd say more often than not.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:25 PM   #58
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I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).

Neither have I, though some of my friends tell me they've met such specimens. I HAVE met a few carnivores -- generally at banquets -- who freaked out when they realized I wasn't eating meat, but I put their dismay down to insecurity.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:20 PM   #59
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I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).
I have. I've had to deal with jerks who try to gross you out of eating the meal in front of you. I saw at one poster on this thread that I imagine would behave like an ass every chance s/he got.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:04 AM   #60
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Okay, well, I have. Many times. I'd say more often than not.
That must be an unfortunate group of vegetarians you know then. I've only known a handful of militant, obnoxious vegetarians in my entire life.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:08 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by lypeaches View Post
Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood. We're not talking about people who do it to save an explanation...folks who sincerely believe they're vegetarians.

PS. I am no longer a vegetarian, as I no longer believe that it's a SIN to eat meat....but at least half my meals are still vegetarian as I enjoy the food.

I have personally never met somebody who insisted they were a vegetarian even though they eat fish and seafood, so I didn't realize this was even an issue. I wouldn't worry too much about people like that, though... they are probably the same kind of people who insist that they are activists because they donated a few coins to world hunger.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:07 AM   #62
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I have personally never met somebody who insisted they were a vegetarian even though they eat fish and seafood, so I didn't realize this was even an issue.
Out here in Oklahoma, fish isn't the issue -- it's chicken! If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say, "You're a vegetarian? But you eat chicken, don't you?" I'd buy your favorite restaurant and take you to lunch there. Then I read an article (might've been in The Onion) that claimed chicken is a vegetable: since bugs are predators on vegetables and birds are predators on bugs, one species of vegetable (chickens) deters bugs by camouflaging itself as a bug's worst enemy. Apparently many Okies believe this.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:27 AM   #63
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That must be an unfortunate group of vegetarians you know then. I've only known a handful of militant, obnoxious vegetarians in my entire life.
They're pretty common in college town areas, which I have spent a good chunk of my life in. I just hate when vegetarians OR "carnivores" get on some kind of soapbox about how awesome their "way of eating" is. Just leave it alone, to each their own.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:28 PM   #64
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I was a strict vegetarian for 21 years. At the age of 21 I randomly decided to taste chicken and have never looked back. I love most meat, and couldn't imagine ever going veggie again, even though morally I feel bad all of the time for eating meat. That's mostly because of Morrissey though, so if you see him please don't tell him!
Oh and about the "veggies" who eat fish, I had an argument with one the other day. My friend's sister in law. I tried to tell her she was actually a Pescatarian, and she looked at me as if I was a fish. She carried on insisting she was veggie, even after telling us she tried frog's legs a few weeks ago!!
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:08 PM   #65
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I eat meat. I feel horrible about the treatment of the animals, I do, and my older sister recently became a vegitarian... because somehow in her nearly 30 years of life eating meat she'd never been aware of animal treatment before now? I don't know about her... but back on subject: I hate how the animals are treated, but I love meat, and I firmly believe [backed by science] that humans are omnivores, and meat is a vital part of the human diet. We eat too much of it, but we need it. I take no issue with Vegetarians at all. To each his or her own, and I'm glad people take their boycott on the mistreatment seriously. If I had a choice of where/how to get my meat, I would by all means [as a supporter of no kill shelters and animal rescues my whole life] go ahead and support it by buying their products. Short of going out and hunting my own game [which I could NEVER do! I'd just cry and probably be ill doing it myself], I have few options in suburbia.

Lets face it. The country has made it so that we don't have to kill our own prey. We don't farm out own veggies usually either. We have been brought up in a culture that is not tough enough to make it without these big operations. The majority of people don't even have a yard for gardening. What we need is strict US guidelines [that are ENFORCED] when it comes to ethical animal treatment prior to, and during, slaughtering. I am a big advocate for this.

When it comes to Veganism... I think this is very unhealthy. It simply is. It cuts out most of the major building blocks of human nutrition. My aunt was a vegan while pregnant and she was so weak she nearly lost the baby. Her doctor forced her to change back to regular vegetarianism [as she had been her whole life prior with the utmost in health and balance in diet]. Anything that makes it unhealthy and dangerous to preform your bodies natural functions, is not healthy. As far as I'm aware, at no point in history has a culture survived cutting out all animal products.

I found this post elsewhere on the topic since I became curious about the topic after posting my opinions!:

Quote:
Moonbear: (vegetarians are unhealthy-reply) Some are. But, no, it is not an essential part of the diet. The essential amino acids can also be obtained by combining vegetables and grains to balance those. Animal products are considered complete proteins, because you can obtain all of your essential amino acids from any single type of meat, and they are in the most digestible form for the human body. With a vegetarian diet, no single food item is a complete protein, and vegetable sources are not as digestible as meat sources, so one must be educated about what to combine to ensure they are getting adequate nutrients. Of course, proteins are not the only nutrients we require either, so we need more than just meats too.

Humans are omnivores and the structure and function of the digestive tract, not its length, is what tell us that humans are not efficient at digesting vegetables (that's why they are good sources of fiber, which means undigestible matter). We are also not obligate carnivores, so need more than just meat as well. The diet that our digestive tract has evolved to digest contains a mixture of meats, vegetables and grains.

So, one can be a healthy vegetarian if they are very careful about what they are doing, but there are also a lot of myths, such as the one the OP inquired about, that are spread among vegetarians (as well as myths spread among non-vegetarians about vegetarian diets). I would strongly suggest that anyone considering a vegetarian diet ask their physician to recommend a good nutritionist who can help them understand their dietary needs and approach their choice in a healthy and safe manner. Don't rely just on the advice of your physician...believe it or not, they do not receive much training on nutrition in medical school, so are not the best people to ask for help in formulating a diet. A registered dietician or nutritionist is a better resource.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:04 PM   #66
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I am against factory farming and inhumane treatment of all animals. So, instead of being an armchair rebel, I decided that meat companies wouldn't be getting my money. If people ask me about my eating habits, I will gladly engage in conversation... but if you try to demean my way of life, I will get opinionated and radical on your ass.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:02 AM   #67
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Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger.

The problem is, that there are very few groups who are trying to correct the problems. PETA are a bunch of violent, shock tactic, fat hating extremists, so until some other group steps up to show the world how to stop the animal abuses in the meat industry...nothing will change [unless something like... 30% instead of 3% start to boycott meat]. The government is what needs to step up, not singular consumers.

Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:11 AM   #68
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Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger.

The problem is, that there are very few groups who are trying to correct the problems. PETA are a bunch of violent, shock tactic, fat hating extremists, so until some other group steps up to show the world how to stop the animal abuses in the meat industry...nothing will change [unless something like... 30% instead of 3% start to boycott meat]. The government is what needs to step up, not singular consumers.

Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.
eta: oh, and I really love how crazy obnoxious meat-eaters are applauded for standing up to us scary, bleeding heart vegetarians. But seriously... having someone shovel a bacon cheeseburger down their throat in front of my face doesn't upset me. Just makes me feel sorry.


I am an active animal rights supporter. I didn't just stop buying burgers. I volunteer at local animal shelters. I've worked on fundraisers. I have done and will continue to do everything I can to help stop animal abuse. Please do not assume that I just gave up meat and patted myself on the back.

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Old 10-12-2009, 09:14 AM   #69
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I am an active animal rights supporter. I didn't just stop buying burgers. I volunteer at local animal shelters. I've worked on fundraisers. I have done and will continue to do everything I can to help stop animal abuse. Please do not assume that I just gave up meat and patted myself on the back.
As long as you can acknowledge that meat-eaters do the same things.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:21 AM   #70
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As long as you can acknowledge that meat-eaters do the same things.
Uhmmm of course... I'm not completely clueless.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:45 AM   #71
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I have. I've had to deal with jerks who try to gross you out of eating the meal in front of you. I saw at one poster on this thread that I imagine would behave like an ass every chance s/he got.
You imagine? Really? I love how you just make assumptions about how somebody would act IRL based on nothing more than some on topic posts on a message board.

There is a lot of nuance to this stuff. Some people are 'live and let live' types, and some are militant. It's like with abortion--some simply support the 'right to life' position and some picket abortion clinics because they feel a moral need to save lives. I don't agree with the 'right to life' position on abortion because i'm pro-choice, but I do understand it.

I personally make the choice to not discuss my diet unless asked. I feel that if somebody asked, s/he has opened up the conversation. I don't proactively offer information about factory farming but if somebody asks why I don't eat meat, I'll say it's an ethical issue and an opposition to factory farming.

Some people feel so passionately about these issues, they need to do more than just answer questions; some people join PETA and some join the ALF and firebomb laboratories. It's the same thing as the continuum of self ascribing as an environmentalist, volunteering your time for recycling efforts, choosing to live off the grid on a commune, and chaining yourself to old trees to prevent clear cutting.

Things that come across as crazy, radical, annoying...whatever. A lot of those things are just passion and strong caring and feeling compelled to fix a serious problem.

And as far as the health thing goes---I have not eaten meat for decades and I'm perfectly healthy. I don't believe for a second humans need to eat meat. I'm not saying it is or is not unhealthy in its natural state (by which I mean hunted or humanely farmed and not shot up with chemicals and hormones and who-knows-what-else) but I think it's untrue that it's not healthy or natural.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:10 PM   #72
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Uhmmm of course... I'm not completely clueless.
Let me rephrase that to say everyone, rather than just you, because I don't want that to come across as being snarky or a personal attack at all. I'm speaking more to those people out there that start up with the meat-eaters, really. I was once called a hypocrite because I volunteered at an animal rescue and ate meat! LOL! By a fellow volunteer, even!
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:21 PM   #73
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Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger.

[...]

Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.
Thank you. I found the post somewhat offensive and ridiculous, too. You make excellent points.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:26 PM   #74
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eta: oh, and I really love how crazy obnoxious meat-eaters are applauded for standing up to us scary, bleeding heart vegetarians. But seriously... having someone shovel a bacon cheeseburger down their throat in front of my face doesn't upset me. Just makes me feel sorry.
That is no better than soap boxing! Lord. No one needs your sympathy.
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:30 PM   #75
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That is no better than soap boxing! Lord. No one needs your sympathy.
Well we can't all be perfect!
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