So what is the marque of a true FA (watch out, more musing by KFD)...

[KFD]

The "compliment" of a woman of size being called a fat tub of lard really got the gears turning in my head as to what an FA really is...

I have the wonderful gift of swiftly stuffing my foot into my mouth, so I am going to try not to piss anyone off. I look around here, and at the BBW culture, and I see these congruent conditions in a Fat Admirer. Some of these include a disregard for outward appearances, cultural background, possibly social ineptitude, low self esteem, or an Oedipal admiration, some type of foundation early in life that set the course of a young man's journey throughout the entirety of his existence. Maybe its the feeling of security, like a nuturing sensation a small child has with a much larger mother...

Call me arrogant, or whatever you want, but I have never really seen an FA that hasn't satisfied those conditions, except for myself. Well, who would know really about myself more than me, right?

And cue my next point. I was talking to Linda (mostly known in these circles as Destiny) the other day, and she was telling me that she was talking to an FA who told her she was 'Beautiful on the inside'.

REALLY?

You are telling me that you are immersing yourself in the BBW culture, and that is where you find true beauty, on the inside!? Now, don't get things backward- I am in no way saying that the lovely Destiny has this hideous ugly soul, she is sweetheart, but you don't go the butcher shop for seasoning alone!

Now, something else that planted the seed for my rambling. The New Jersey Bash thread. I look at the women dressed up, and man oh man! I am not digging what I am seeing because of anything else other than you girls are beautiful! BigBeautifulMe, is a prime example. I don't mean to dime her out (well, yes I do), but wow. When I see those pictures of her, I see the very essence of femininity! Granted I am not exclusionary, just to her, or to the definition of BBW in general. I love my bikini-clad babes, what straight guy doesn't? I find a girl, like BigBeautifulMe or Juicy Jacqulyn (which in the NJ bash thread made me say WHO IS THAT BEAUTIFUL BABE!?) the very essence of what a female should be.

Something that really piques my interest, is WHY DO I LOVE WHAT I LOVE? Ever since I was a toddler, I have gravitated towards large women in public places. This is where normally one would think that would be Oedipal, but my mother, and all the important female figures in my early life were all tiny. When my grandfather took me to public places, he would count fat girls with me. He wasn't an FA at all whatsoever. I have drawings from when I was younger of fat women. This was LOOOONNNNNNGGGGG before the onslaught of puberty. I have no logical explanation as to why (insert name in what I should have posted in the not-so anonymous thread) is what I perceive to be a strikingly beautiful woman. Again, I see some FAs that have this mindset of 'you are fat, you will do'. I do have qualities I look for, just like the next guy. Please don't bash me here for that quote! One of my best friends is gay. He is respectful of my sexuality, and I am his. He is one of the very few people that I consider 'pure of heart'. One of the most poignant statements that his mother made about him is that 'he is what he is'. Sure, we could sit here all day and postulate why he chooses the same sex, brain chemistry, trauma in his life, but at the end of the day, his mother's eloquently simple quote rings true. I believe it does for me as well.

Now, something else I notice- is one considered an 'fa' because of a lack of options? Go in any BBW chatroom (I have only been in Destiny's so maybe one website isn't an accurate barometer for FA sentiment), I see these idiots, for lack of a better term, say some of the most obtuse, oddball things and otherwise socially unacceptable things. Are these guys FAs because they have had luck with some insecure female who viewed the term bbw as a prejorative, and themselves found some strange asylum in any form, by attention in the opposite sex?

I don't know, big or small woman, any term, such as 'fat tub of lard' doesn't seem too attractive, and it just bothers me that someone can say that as a compliment. Didn't your momma teach you manners as a child?

So I guess my ten-dollar buzz thesis for my rant is this: What is the marque of a true FA? Now, I say marque as opposed to mark. Here is the inner car geek in me coming out, but marque is used to describe a brand, and can also be applied to the culture surrounding that brand, Ferrari has a mystique and own culture associated with that marque, something that defines that cultus.

So am I alone here, or just another loud mouthed jackass pissing a lot of people off?

Later

KFD

[thatgirl08]

The only quality I can truly say that I've noticed in most FA's is some level of social awkwardness with the opposite sex but I think this is because many times, an FA doesn't get the usual awkwardness out in high school like everyone else.. they seem to develop in that sense later than usual. I really think the social awkwardness stems from being an FA, not the other way around. Have I noticed the other things? Yes, but not in enough FA's to say that it's part of the FA experience.

One thing I've noticed amongst a lot (not ALL so don't get offended) of feeders (only feeders, not FAs in general) is that they seem to have A) an unusual relationship with food in some way in their own life and B) control issues to some extent. I know this was sorta unrelated but meh.

ETA: As far as the personality thing, yes I truly do think there are some "FAs" that are members of this community for the wrong reasons (as in, they don't think they can do better or whatever) but I truly think thats like, 1% or less of the FA population.

[BothGunsBlazing]

the mark of a true FA is when you stop dissecting the whole "why do I like fat girls" issue and start just liking fat girls because they're people just like anyone else and don't deserve to be put under a microscope at every turn.

also, thank you to all the ladies I've ever been involved with who overlooked my deep seeded psychological issues.

Stay sweet.

[exile in thighville]

Originally Posted by KFD

I am in no way saying that the lovely Destiny has this hideous ugly soul

this is what bbw-chan is for

[exile in thighville]

my fat tub of lard is asleep next to me, when she wakes up i'm making soup

[BothGunsBlazing]

Originally Posted by exile in thighville

my fat tub of lard is asleep next to me, when she wakes up i'm making soup

you mean soap, right? cause mine has enough to last for like 5 yrs.

[exile in thighville]

Originally Posted by BothGunsBlazing

you mean soap, right? cause mine has enough to last for like 5 yrs.

for that i wouldn't let her wake up first

[Observer]

FA's come in many varieties, so its hard to define a universal marque. However, telling someone they are "beautiful on the inside" without including the modifier "almost as luscious on the outside" in my opinion doesn't qualify. In fact, its insulting.

No true FA would dream of doing such a thing. Why? Because his appreciation for the person's outer beauty precedes even getting to know the inner person. The tendancy to be physically attracted to the fuller figure is the essential definition of an FA. Such attraction starts very young - for me it was the fourth grade. Being able to then also see the inner beauty and qualities of a person beyond the physical is an FA who has gained maturity

[KFD]

Originally Posted by Observer

FA's come in many varieties, so its hard to define a universal marque. However, telling someone they are "beautiful on the inside" without including the modifier "almost as luscious on the outside" in my opinion doesn't qualify. In fact, its insulting.

No true FA would dream of doing such a thing. Why? Because his appreciation for the person's outer beauty precedes even getting to know the inner person. The tendancy to be physically attracted to the fuller figure is the essential definition of an FA. Such attraction starts very young - for me it was the fourth grade. Being able to then also see the inner beauty and qualities of a person beyond the physical is an FA who has gained maturity

Thank you! This is my point, exactly. I over analyze things because that's what I do. I don't think one should be faulted for asking the perennial 'why' question at all...

KFD

[katorade]

Originally Posted by Observer

FA's come in many varieties, so its hard to define a universal marque. However, telling someone they are "beautiful on the inside" without including the modifier "almost as luscious on the outside" in my opinion doesn't qualify. In fact, its insulting.

No true FA would dream of doing such a thing. Why? Because his appreciation for the person's outer beauty precedes even getting to know the inner person. The tendancy to be physically attracted to the fuller figure is the essential definition of an FA. Such attraction starts very young - for me it was the fourth grade. Being able to then also see the inner beauty and qualities of a person beyond the physical is an FA who has gained maturity

Actually, it's still fairly insulting. Many women are very touchy about the way things are phrased. The above falls into the "can't win for losing" kind of compliment that a lot of men tend to get in trouble with. Any guy who has heard a woman say "what do you mean by that?" can attest to that.

Simplicity is your friend. How about just viewing her as a complete person and sticking with "you're beautiful"?

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by katorade

Actually, it's still fairly insulting. Many women are very touchy about the way things are phrased. The above falls into the "can't win for losing" kind of compliment that a lot of men tend to get in trouble with. Any guy who has heard a woman say "what do you mean by that?" can attest to that.

Simplicity is your friend. How about just viewing her as a complete person and sticking with "you're beautiful"?

indeed! i always wonder whats so hard about just telling a woman she is beautiful pure and simple. many times i feel that there are FAs who get off on the subtle and not so subtle insults of BBWs. they always seem to think its important to remind a BBW of the negative view the rest of society must have of her body. i really don't feel its all not knowing. i feel a lot of people , especially who have been around the community and have talked to many BBWs over the years know exactly what it is that they are doing or saying. it goes right along with KFD's idea that there are a lot of FAs who lack confidence, are socially inept or maybe not so attractive or accomplished and know it and try to cover it over by making a BBW feel worse about herself than they feel about themselves. i've seen that a lot. sometimes its conscious, sometimes its unconscious but its there. but generally speaking on dims as many times as it as been said FAs here should really know better. so thats prime evidence that they feel they are getting some kind of payoff by making themselves somehow superior to a BBW. its like the BBW version of "the game" sold by slimey characters to men who don't have the confidence that they can capture a woman's interest without some kind of nasty mysogynistic trick. one of the major components of "the game " is to shake a woman's confidence by giving her a sly or not so sly insult.

great post KFD. i can tell you that a lot of FAs have even made observations to me about exactly what you have said. you are not alone. often it has made them reluctant to even identify themselves as FAs because they dont want to be included in a group that gets off on demeaning women. FAs do come in many varieties just like other men. some are gentlemen and some are not. its not really all that difficult. there is a big difference from enjoying a little fetishistic wordplay in private with your lover and saying something like that to women you don't know well. it should only take place after a discussion and the assurance that the acceptance of that is truly mutual. until then conversation with a BBW should be the same as with any other woman. she isn't a special case in that concern. she shouldn't be treated as though she is so desperate for attention that she'll accept anything. when BBWs are treated that way they aren't being admired they are being hogged.

[wrestlingguy]

Point of clarification.

There are certain individuals within the community that get some sexual excitement from being called what many of us consider to be offensive names, both men and women. While SuperO alluded to it, I wanted to clarify her point with some personal experience.

During my FA journey, I encountered someone long ago who begged me to call her my fat pig, or fat & dirty whore. Most of you who know me know that I'm not wired that way, so it was a struggle for me to even attempt it. Because I was emotionally invested in that person, I did the best I could, but my heart wasn't in it.

I do know, however, that some people consider humiliation an integral part of their sex life, and calling someone a fat tub of lard is something that should be agreed upon between those involved. Anything less than that could cause psychological harm to the other person involved.

I think most of the BBW/FA world wouldn't find anything sexual about a comment like that, just wanted to point out that there is a small group that actually does.

[katorade]

Originally Posted by wrestlingguy

Point of clarification.

There are certain individuals within the community that get some sexual excitement from being called what many of us consider to be offensive names, both men and women.

During my FA journey, I encountered someone long ago who begged me to call her my fat pig, or fat & dirty whore. Most of you who know me know that I'm not wired that way, so it was a struggle for me to even attempt it.

I do know, however, that some people consider humiliation an integral part of their sex life, and calling someone a fat tub of lard is something that should be agreed upon between those involved.

I think most of the BBW/FA world wouldn't find anything sexual about a comment like that, just wanted to point out that there is a small group that actually does.

Errr...wrong thread?

[wrestlingguy]

Originally Posted by katorade

Errr...wrong thread?

ummmmmm.......no

I don't know, big or small woman, any term, such as 'fat tub of lard' doesn't seem too attractive, and it just bothers me that someone can say that as a compliment. Didn't your momma teach you manners as a child?

[LoveBHMS]

Well I've been an FFA my whole life, and I can tell you that some BHM totally get off on being called names, the nastier the better. And yes, that includes "tub of lard". People who think it's awful? Deal with it. It's between me and the BHM in question and if he likes it, we're doing it.

I don't know what the mark of a "real" FA is, nor am I interested in holding anyone to any standards of purity or making some sort of checklist where unless you do, think, or say *something* you're not a real FA.

[katorade]

Originally Posted by wrestlingguy

ummmmmm.......no

Ah, sorry, thought maybe you'd put together a post for the FTOL thread and clicked on the wrong link.

To put it in reference to his post, though, I think something needs to be said of using terms as compliments (and this isn't directed at you, Phil, I know you're a gentleman ).

Even if they DO turn someone's proverbial crank, terms like tub of lard and dirty whore are never, ever compliments. Just because someone likes them does not make them complimentary. Just because someone gets off on humiliation does not mean that the act then becomes a complimentary one.

A compliment should never have to be "okay"ed. For instance, telling a woman you hardly know that she has nice tits is not a compliment. Yes, you are saying you like them, and no, you're not saying anything bad about them, but it's completely unwarranted, unwelcome, and objectifying.

[superodalisque]

Kato i think he has the right thread. that kind of talk--agreed upon sexual titilation is a whole lot different from someone trying to break you down. i think its an important distinction because often people confuse the two. when someone is trying to chip away at your self esteem its much less obvious. like you pointed out it can even look like a compliment on its surface until you look at it an realize it hinges on the fact that you have to accept that your outside is not necessarily so beautiful.

[LoveBHMS]

And you know...since when is it, or should it be, an insult to be considered to have inner beauty?

Outer beauty is largely not important. Yes it is if you're a fashion model, or in one of a small number of life situations where outward appearance really matters. But.....

Do you know what Nobel Prize Winners look like?

If you needed surgery would you want somebody hot or somebody skilled and experienced?

If you were collecting money for an important charity, would you look for generosity, or would you insist on seeing a photograph with every check to determine the value of any contribution?

If you were accused of a crime, would you not want a lawyer who was smart and capable rather than attractive?

Outer beauty is fleeting and more important, subjective. Eye of the beholder and all that. In my above mentioned examples, the brains, generosity, skills, experience, and work ethic can benefit everyone, whereas outer beauty is valued only by those to whom the subject is deemed attractive.

[ladle]

Hmmmm...thought about this for a while..
probably a big hand mark right on her big butt...

Oh wait...you said 'marque'?
shit..back to the dictionary...

[GTAFA]

Originally Posted by thatgirl08

The only quality I can truly say that I've noticed in most FA's is some level of social awkwardness with the opposite sex but I think this is because many times, an FA doesn't get the usual awkwardness out in high school like everyone else.. they seem to develop in that sense later than usual. I really think the social awkwardness stems from being an FA, not the other way around.... .

Interesting observation. I think there's truth to the observation, but I believe the analysis of those observations is all wrong. I think it's a perfect case of the Mars-Venus gulf between the genders.

I can approach thin women with no fear. I could do very well with thin women: because i am indifferent. I tried dating one for awhile in 2006. We had begun as friends, and nature took its course, particularly because at the time i had struck out with the SSBBW that had been the real object of my affection. I feel guilty about how much i enjoyed the approving glances of my friends, who thought she was hot. Ha... But we never consummated (i mean with the thin woman) because i was never excited enough by her to do more than kiss. She was beautiful facially and an awesome kisser:...and a good friend. She ended up wondering if i was gay, the way we broke off.

A thin woman, confronted by a man who is tongue-tied would simply assume that the guy is excited. This is the normal thing that men do, when they can't conceal their excitement. The real perversity of this world is that when a man is truly indifferent, many women are not only much more at ease but happier than in the company of a man honestly quaking with excitement.

I get the impression that some BBWs and SSBBWs believe they'd be better off with men who love them in spite of their size, rather than being attracted to them for their size. This might be a good approach, given that any man with eyes probably notices the beauty of a big woman sooner or later, particularly once the peer pressure of highschool is over. I am no mind-reader but it appears to me that there are some people who pretend to be indifferent, and others who are genuinely indifferent; and some people seem to like that impression of indifference.

If it's a crime to show excitement and passion, GUILTY as charged.

There are a whole lot of other issues. Just because one is attracted, doesn't mean that the feelings are mutual, right? Life is perverse, it seems. Men who are excited usually are impatient, and tend to want to go too fast, which means they likely won't respect the feelings of the person they are pursuing: who wants them to go a bit slower, and prove they aren't just out for a quickie. The whole dynamic that's summed up in the phrase about "loving what's inside" is a terrible oversimplification.

[TraciJo67]

... and again, I don't see anyone passing judgment about what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom.

That is, however, a far cry from anyone believing that it's ever socially acceptable to just blurt out "fat tub of lard" "fat pig" or anything that could possibly be construed by a reasonable person as insulting without discussing boundaries well before such actions occur.

Nobody ... nobody ... nobody ... is suggesting that two consenting adults who are enjoying themselves, in whatever capacity that may be, shouldn't do so. This line of reasoning, at this point, seems intentionally inflammatory. Intended to pick a fight rather than seek any kind of common ground.

[wrestlingguy]

Originally Posted by TraciJo67

... and again, I don't see anyone passing judgment about what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom.

That is, however, a far cry from anyone believing that it's ever socially acceptable to just blurt out "fat tub of lard" "fat pig" or anything that could possibly be construed by a reasonable person as insulting without discussing boundaries well before such actions occur.

Nobody ... nobody ... nobody ... is suggesting that two consenting adults who are enjoying themselves, in whatever capacity that may be, shouldn't do so. This line of reasoning, at this point, seems intentionally inflammatory. Intended to pick a fight rather than seek any kind of common ground.

I didn't know what Kato was referring to when she asked me if I was posting to the FTOL thread. I finally figured it out (I'm from Jersey, it takes a while).

My post wasn't meant to be inflammatory in any way. I was simply clarifying to the OP that for certain folk, that talk is not only accepted, but encouraged. I think most of us all share that this type of talk is demeaning and offensive, so I don't know how separating the 1% from the rest of us could cause a problem.

What I'm saying, in way too many words, is that we're in agreement.

[KFD]

Thanks for the replies, Phil, Traci, lovebhms (brilliant thought-provoking post), kato, and superodalisque, and those I haven't mentioned. As far as people getting of on the demeaning comments sexually, to each their own. I really don't find any attractiveness in the word 'tits' at all. I would never say anything to a woman about her 'tits'. I also think that it is basic courtesy and manners should be the reason someone doesn't use a demeaning comment as a compliment. Again, social ineptitude.

As far as the 'inner beauty' comment, I only have issues with that if someone who claims to be an 'fa' uses that as her bright points. Is he truly attracted to the feminine form with excess adipose tissue, or is it what he settles for? Now please don't associate me with those "Gee golly, I can't get anything else", or the "You are fat you will do" types. I even posted the women I thought were beautiful by name here, because that is all I have to go off of. Like any other person, we are attracted to people that piques our interest in a certain way. Again the "you are fat, you will do" mindset seems to be a.) self-esteem issues, b.) settling for whatever gives attention to us, that happens to satisfy certain conditions, again, just another talisman for explanation 'a'. The thesis for my post is just that- I am not questioning if I am an FA. I know I am. I am questioning why-much like the NTSB deciphers a plane crash. This is in my own inherent character to overanalyse things.

As far as marque, the online dictionary will probably have a different meaning, but it refers to the brand, like an automobile. I associate marque with culture, but that is my own thoughts. I used the Ferrari analogy (gee, anybody seen my myspace, sig on curvage with my bike parked next to an F40, or any post on curvage?), because I associate the Cavallino Rampante with a certain panache, something that is unique to that brand. My definition of mark here, is a branding, stamping, or otherwise defining (dare I say tangible) attribute, versus a type of thinking or way of life associated with a marque.

Later
KFD

[TraciJo67]

Originally Posted by wrestlingguy

I didn't know what Kato was referring to when she asked me if I was posting to the FTOL thread. I finally figured it out (I'm from Jersey, it takes a while).

My post wasn't meant to be inflammatory in any way. I was simply clarifying to the OP that for certain folk, that talk is not only accepted, but encouraged. I think most of us all share that this type of talk is demeaning and offensive, so I don't know how separating the 1% from the rest of us could cause a problem.

What I'm saying, in way too many words, is that we're in agreement.

Phil, I had no problem with anything that you've said and in fact I agree with you. Clearly, you're more interested in seeking commonalities among people and I appreciate that you're very kind and respectful in how you go about it. I was more addressing the points that have been made by others in this thread, yet again, that in my opinion seek to inflame more than understand.