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Old 11-08-2009, 12:04 PM   #51
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Feel free to remove this post if it's not completely within the realm of this thread...
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:26 PM   #52
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As an insanely attractive FA who never had to deal with the pitfalls that most.. average FAs fall into I can tell you right now ..

HOLY SHIT I think I can see my reflection in the computer monitor.

this post. to be continued tomorrow.
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:29 PM   #53
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KFD - I don't want to delete your post out of hand just because I'm willing to entertain the idea that it has some content beyond self-aggrandizement. If you can explain why your post is in any way relevant to the topic at hand it would be useful to me...

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Old 11-08-2009, 05:25 PM   #54
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Looking at your profile .. this is a guess..but you are immersed in Navy culture. From what I observed of the Armed Forces culture is (dated army ranger) that conformity is really pushed. Its from having the perfect haircut, shoes, physical build, etc. So for you I would guess that it would be really hard to be a Fa. LOL its like being a FA in Sparta
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secret turn on.....Genuine affection :)

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Old 11-08-2009, 06:09 PM   #55
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Looking at your profile .. this is a guess..but you are immersed in Navy culture. From what I observed of the Armed Forces culture is (dated army ranger) that conformity is really pushed. Its from having the perfect haircut, shoes, physical build, etc. So for you I would guess that it would be really hard to be a Fa. LOL its like being a FA in Sparta
It's not always THAT bad. I'm in the military too. I don't get THAT much flack for it, but I'm also cool about it, so it's to be expected.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:01 PM   #56
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Can i just say, i love this statement?
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Me too!
Me three- I like that new guy Joh
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:06 PM   #57
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It doesn't make sense to me that people who say they are fat or were fat dislike people who are Fa's. Its like a catch 22.

Reality is ...no one is forcing you to be fat (if they are..then thats a subject for discussion somewhere else). If you dont like being that way...change it and move on. Its like a rock star talking shit about his/her fans.
This isn't a good analogy though. A rock star OWES loyalty to their fans...why? Because the fans made the rock star famous....made them who they are.
No FA made me fat.......nor is any FA doing me some great favor/giving me a great gift to find me attractive.....any more than I would be doing him some wonderful favor to find him attractive in return.
Skinny people that find each other attractive....that's just a "normal" occurrence in most people's mind. Why does it have to be treated differently if the attraction is towards a larger person?
If an FA is sitting up on a high horse looking down and "granting favors" to fat people, it seems like a truly normal reaction to want to knock that fool off his perch, eh? .

Not everyone that claims FA status really is one.......not by my definition anyway.
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:56 PM   #58
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Personally, I can't even imagine who'd come up with a statement like that as it shows an appalling degree of negativity and cynicism, let alone an utter lack of knowledge about the size acceptance movement and its history that is filled with FA contributions.

It also reeks a bit of the concentrated efforts of a few to paint and disqualify all male interest in fat partners as some mere fetish. Tell that to all the FAs who have fat partners they care for and adore.

The statement as is makes about as much sense as attempting to disqualify gays and lesbians with sexual interests from the gay rights movement. We're all human beings with our private sides and interests that can very well co-exist with our political and philosophical goals and leanings.
i don't think so. its a question thats right on the money. it needs to be discussed and its honest. pretending its not going through the minds of many people would be ignoring an important part of people integrating thier political and personal ideals when it comes to the community. so addressing the question is an important step to reconciling how they feel and interact personally with the over all goals of SA. its a question a lot of sensitive folks end up asking themselves anyway since they not only care about getting thier sexual needs met but they also care about the impact they have on the people they admire--and they should. thats only being responsible.

i'm not an FA but i personally feel that ones personal life can and should be kept seperate from ones public and political life. i don't see why anyone who isn't involved with an FA on a personal sexual level should be put in a position where they are able pass judgement on him for his intimate likes and disikes. some areas of his life should be his own. the only problem is when people with certain interests are very open with them in environments where its inappropriate. its also important if one is involved politically in SA that FAs not give the impression that they are only there to see what kind of sexual networking can be derived. they really need to be there or at least appear to be there just for SA and really feel it in their hearts. reasonable people have a right to assume that FAs aren't serious or even damaging if they are always acting out inappropriately strictly out of sexual need when other important issues are on the table.

i don't feel fetishes are unhealthy or wrong. there are degrees. as long as a person isn't so obsessive with them that the fetish is first foremost and always in their mind and put before the respect of another person's humanity. the problem has been that sometimes people are obsessive. and, when they are it does damage SA. it diminishes what SA is about. it can make people who are fat look like desperate victims. SA is about the world and public space and fetish is about private space. the problem is when people are so involved in their private intimate world that they don't really care about what is really good for other people, particularly in this case fat ones who have to live in the public world. all they can see is "the fat" and get overwhelmed by that and seem to forget there are people behind it. even though its part of admiration for some people in one of its many facets there are times when its inappropriate to act as though fat people are freaks or taboo. the intimate language of sex in all of its individual and eccentric forms shouldn't always be accessable to everyone--especially people who don't understand and who have the power to decide how fat people get treated in the rest of world. if an FA has the appropriate balance there is nothing wrong at all with his admiration, but when it goes beyond admiraton to obsession its damaging to anyone -- even to him.

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Old 11-08-2009, 09:17 PM   #59
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This isn't a good analogy though. A rock star OWES loyalty to their fans...why? Because the fans made the rock star famous....made them who they are.
No FA made me fat.......nor is any FA doing me some great favor/giving me a great gift to find me attractive.....any more than I would be doing him some wonderful favor to find him attractive in return.
Skinny people that find each other attractive....that's just a "normal" occurrence in most people's mind. Why does it have to be treated differently if the attraction is towards a larger person?
If an FA is sitting up on a high horse looking down and "granting favors" to fat people, it seems like a truly normal reaction to want to knock that fool off his perch, eh? .

Not everyone that claims FA status really is one.......not by my definition anyway.
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:19 PM   #60
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I was actually thinking of the whole fetish thing recently and it dawned on me. I think almost everyone has a fetish. Let's take a look at it

Fetish
Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

So if a guy gets aroused by long legs then he has a leg fetish. Is this going to hinder the acceptance of short skirts and pantyhose?

If a guy gets aroused by physically fit women, then he has a muscle fetish. Does this fact hinder the acceptance of women going to the gym, or competing in the olympics?

If a guy gets aroused by fat on a woman, then he has a fat fetish. Why would this hinder the acceptance of fat women when none of the other examples do?

This seems to me like a chicken and egg senerio. The chicken is getting blamed for a rotten egg that it didn't lay!
first of all, the difference is a preference which many FAs have, and not a fetish...my understanding of fetish is that it is something that MUST be present in order to illicit a sexual response...long legs are nice, but unless you have a true fetish, this would be preference...while fat can be both a preference and fetish...
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:48 PM   #61
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It doesn't make sense to me that people who say they are fat or were fat dislike people who are Fa's. Its like a catch 22.

Reality is ...no one is forcing you to be fat (if they are..then thats a subject for discussion somewhere else). If you dont like being that way...change it and move on. Its like a rock star talking shit about his/her fans.
I think this touches on why there can be such a rocky relationship between FAs and fat people. It all depends on the person defining themselves as an FA. Clearly, not all of them have the same motives, and many are not interested in size acceptance, but focus more on the value of fat appreciation as their own sexuality.

It might be a stretch to relate it to race, but I see it like someone who is attracted to men/women in a race minority group not necessarily being interested in their struggle for civil rights or acceptance outside of their community. On the flip side, though, there are people in committed relationships with someone of another race that are truly attentive to their concerns and want to work with them for advancement.

In sexuality terms and a to-the-point example, you could say it's akin to men that are aroused by watching lesbians have sex, but couldn't care one way or another whether or not they should have the right to marry.

There are a lot of fat people that have never had a positive experience with someone that refers to themselves as an FA, or worse, they've had multiple negative experiences with them, so they're more apt to dislike or distrust someone who defines themselves as such, even if their intentions are noble.

I don't necessarily think that the broad spectrum of the word "fetish" is as much a problem as the broad spectrum of the term "FA".

I personally believe that FAs that ARE concerned about size acceptance have a place in the movement, and have just as much footing and right to a voice as the fat people they love. Being a thin FA in terms of being a "Fat Ally" can extend far beyond the lines of just sexuality. There are thin people out there who want advancement for their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, friends, co-workers, etc. I think it's truly beneficial that these people are included and key players to show that fat people are not the ONLY ones that care about fat acceptance.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:04 PM   #62
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I see your point Dianna but I'm not sure if it really holds true for some FAs. The way I see it is that I'm heterosexual. I don't just have a preference for women. Its not on a graded scale. My heterosexuality is an orientation because I have no sexual interest in men.

Similarly, I am an FA. I don't just have a preference for fat women. My aesthetic for fat women is an orientation because I have no sexual interest in thin women.

If a person must be female for me to be sexually interested in them... and a person must also be fat for me to be sexually interested in them... how is that different? Just because something is more fixed than a preference, does not make it a fetish... unless you hold with the idea that heterosexuality itself is a fetish?

Its all on a continuum. For some FAs, its less fixed than it is in my case and thin women may still be attractive to some extent. Perhaps its more appropriate to think of the varying degrees of FA-ism across a scale ranging from preference to orientation. Feederism and weight change may or may not be refered to as fetish, depending on your point of view... but its a different thing from a basic aesthetic on the scale above.

Coming back onto the point of the thread. I agree with Santaclear (and others) who assert that Fat Admirers can absolutely be allies to Size Acceptance. There is nothing to stop anyone taking effective action in a cause that they believe in, regardless of the motivation for believing in it.

FAs can contribute simply by being out and in a relationship. Thats still a contribution to size acceptance if it helps to challenge bigoted preconceptions about the undesirability and unworthyness of fat people.

There are elements of FA sexuality, including the emphasis on weight change via feederism, that have the potential to run contrary to the idea of size acceptance. However, such practices don't preclude the people who are involved in them to still be involved in effective advocacy on an individual and detached level even if the practice itself runs contrary.

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Old 11-08-2009, 11:37 PM   #63
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So James maybe saying fat is an orientation for many FAs is more accurate than preference? i just dont think it is a true fetish unless you throw some of the other things previously mentioned in...
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:41 PM   #64
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i don't feel that being an FA in and of itself is a fetish. i think there can be fetishes closely associated with that though--but not for everyone.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:45 PM   #65
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So James maybe saying fat is an orientation for many FAs is more accurate than preference? i just dont think it is a true fetish unless you throw some of the other things previously mentioned in...
Right I think that this is the case. At one end of the scale, you have FAs with a preference for a fat partner that runs through to orientation for a fat partner at the other end of the scale.

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Old 11-08-2009, 11:55 PM   #66
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I cant speak for all FA's but during my search for Fa wank fodder I also came across sites (like this one) that also addressed the issue of Size Acceptance. When I had my fill of fun and games, I would check out sites like Naafa and Isaa. Skip ahead TEN YEARS, now I am in a intimate relationship with a Super Sized person who is suprised that I am not shocked by his needs or habits.

But damn....TEN YEARS..or maybe more..lol..of hanging out on the fringes. However, my friends and family...hell even my ex of 10 years..know what really gets my gander. I never hid it, but thats just me. However, because of my laid back personality, lack of time, and lack of funds, I will never be a hardcore activist of anything.
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secret turn on.....Genuine affection :)

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Old 11-09-2009, 03:56 AM   #67
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wank fodder
You forgot to Grrr...
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:06 AM   #68
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I do not agree with this.

These are in fact two statements: “FAs are fetishists” and “fetishists tarnish the credibility”.

The first is something I have been struggling with recently.

Since this is my first de-lurking post, I’ll give you quickly some background on me to help you understand where I am coming from. Most FAs will recognize this probably.
I have a preference for fat as long as I can remember. I remember being fascinated by the fat kid at school from when I was 8-9 years old, long time before it was anything sexual to me. I grew up in the pre-internet era and felt pretty isolated about my preference. I did not share the excitement that my friends had for skinny model-like women and for a very long time I felt really abnormal for it. As a teenager I even thought I must be gay or something for not getting excited by the girls that my friends got excited about.

Only when I finally got connected to the internet in my late 20’s, I found out that I was not alone with this preference. It really helped to come out of the closet. I came to accept my preference and had my first long relation with a BBW until we separated some years ago.

I was pretty confident about my preference until something happened recently that made me feel very uncomfortable. The bottom line for feeling this uncomfortable is that it is a body size preference and I really and truly believe other characteristics such as personality matter much more than body size. Yet I cannot deny that I am attracted sexually only by big women, and I feel very conflicted by that because it does not feel like me. It conflicts with my values and believes that personality matters much more.

I started searching the net for more information on fat admiration and quickly you come across terms like “fat fetish”. I have always rejected the term “fetish” because it has this negative “abnormal” connotation. I thought of myself as a perfectly normal, very caring and gentle men who happens to be attracted by larger women. But reading more about it, I started to changing my mind. There are no clear-cut definitions, but the general idea seems to be that if you are sexually attracted specifically by the big belly, the big thighs or the soft rolls, then yes, it is called a “fetish”.

I felt bad about it, but you know what? I am ok with it. I cannot deny it: I am sexually attracted by those abundant curves and I feel no sexual attraction for skinny or normal-sized women, and I think that applies to 90% (if not more) of men here. I know some people are “bi-sizual”, but I am not one of them.

I would like to quote a beautiful post from Mergirl here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
…snip…
I am attracted to my girlfriend for many more reasons than just her body, therefore i don't objectify her. Though i am a lesbian Fa- So if she became a skinny man my brain just would not be able to find her attractive. Sexuality isn't shallow, you can't help it.
You can read the entire post here: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...8&postcount=29

If people want to label that sexuality as a fetish, so be it. That is who I am, but that does not make me shallow. It does not mean that all the rest does not matter, because it matters very much to me! I may be a hopelessly romantic fool, but I want a partner for life, and such relationships are not built on soft rolls alone. But my fat sexuality complicates this search because for it to be also an intimately satisfying relationship, I am looking for a big woman.

I have been reading many posts on this subject here on Dimensions before putting my own thoughts on screen and what strikes me is that most people see fat admiration as opposed to fat fetish. Like you are either one or the other. I completely disagree with that! In fact, I think they mostly overlap. Why can’t you be both a fat admirer (or BBW admirer or whatever you want to call it) and have a fat fetish (as in: being sexually attracted to big women only) at the same time?

It may just be a matter of semantics, but I think that the term “fetishists” has been highjacked to refer to fat admirers who lack the basic social, IQ and EQ skills to see that behind every post and picture, there is a real woman. They act and speak with their little brain, directly from their sexual impulses. And indeed these persons do the size acceptance movement no good.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:17 AM   #69
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This is the relevant definition of fetish:

Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

Fetishes are extremely common, in fact I don't believe I've ever meant anyone who didn't have some sort of fetish. It's a normal and vital part of human sexuality. I absolutely believe that most, if not all fas, have fetishes because that is just the way the brain is wired to interpret sexual stimulus.

The real question is why so many people here seemed to have developed the idea that fetishes are bad. Or that anyone with a fetish is a sex-obsessed weirdo. They may vary in degree but once again, fetishes are extremely common if not almost universal.

Some people have fetishes for blonde hair, dark eyes, six pack abs, flat stomachs, big stomachs, muscles, bald heads, fat thighs, etc etc and etc. It's not some deviant behavioral flaw. It comes with the development of a sexual preference.
This. This. This This This This!

To me this whole "Myth" really bugged because it bascially starts out by stipulating that a fetish is a negative thing and if you have a "fat fetish" that by necessity adds in all sorts of terrible qualities to you. I've said this a zillion times but lying, manipulation, using somebody for sex.....those things are not the exclusive province of fetishists.

Like "accusing" anyone of "just being nothing but a fetishist" should not be an insult because there is nothing wrong with it.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:25 PM   #70
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You forgot to Grrr...
Oh yeah..thanks for reminding me..

GRRRRRR....Fisk Fisk

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secret turn on.....Genuine affection :)
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by LoveBHMS View Post
This. This. This This This This!

To me this whole "Myth" really bugged because it bascially starts out by stipulating that a fetish is a negative thing and if you have a "fat fetish" that by necessity adds in all sorts of terrible qualities to you. I've said this a zillion times but lying, manipulation, using somebody for sex.....those things are not the exclusive province of fetishists.

Like "accusing" anyone of "just being nothing but a fetishist" should not be an insult because there is nothing wrong with it.
I don't think anyone is saying there is anything wrong with having a fetish. "Being nothing but a fetishist" suggests you may not view your partner and basically other humans holistically. To view people as 'parts' seems slighty crazy to me. Maby thats what people mean when they say 'Nothing but a fetishist'... It implies someone who would persue a fetish without consideration. This is not the same as having a fetish and incorporating it into relationships where appropriate and more importantly not letting your fetish consume you.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:21 AM   #72
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Maybe it comes with being an engineer, but for me a diagram or graph often expresses things ever so much more clearly than words. So, for what it is worth, the diagram below gives a rough idea of my take on the overlaps (and not) of size acceptance, fat admiration, and feedism.

What do you think? Would you move any of those circles to overlap more or less?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg circles.JPG (14.2 KB, 132 views)
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Last edited by Tad; 11-18-2009 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Forgot to ask the associated question.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:38 AM   #73
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Fetishes are just a way to attach the immoral label to that which is abnormal, simply because a lot of people believe one leads to the other.

And I find that most people who blame FAs for hurting the credibility of the size acceptance movement, usually also accuse FAs of being shallow as well. However, those who do believe that FAs can have a deeper relationship than that are usually found welcoming FAs to the movement.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:04 PM   #74
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To be honest, if people say to me i am tarnishing the credibility of the size acceptance movement by meer association.. i pat them on their fat bottoms and tell them to go try on some too tight clothes for me!! goddam fat people with their thinking and rights and oppinions and whatnot!!!!

Though, seriously..
James, the other 4 'Myths' were too quick and i never got to answer them..
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:24 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
To be honest, if people say to me i am tarnishing the credibility of the size acceptance movement by meer association.. i pat them on their fat bottoms and tell them to go try on some too tight clothes for me!! goddam fat people with their thinking and rights and oppinions and whatnot!!!!

Though, seriously..
James, the other 4 'Myths' were too quick and i never got to answer them..
The myth threads are staggered at the rate of one a week and each thread runs for 2 weeks before it gets closed. Sorry you didn't get a chance to contribute Mer. Perhaps you can think of some other myths for discussion and suggest them here?
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