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Old 11-19-2009, 11:37 AM   #51
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Personally, if I want to talk about healthy eating here I can go to the Health board (though I haven't done much of that). And if I want to talk in depth about losing weight I go elsewhere, because I respect that this is not so much people being in denial as just wanting just one space where one won't wander into a discussion about losing weight, and I can respect that.
Ok..i accept that. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:21 PM   #52
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*sigh* Boy, you've got that right. It's hard when you would like to, even though you know it's just impossible. Thank you for understanding, Mer.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:54 PM   #53
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*sigh* Boy, you've got that right. It's hard when you would like to, even though you know it's just impossible. Thank you for understanding, Mer.
Ya know...it must really suck sometimes to be a mod. Everybody wanting different things all the time and trying to remain professional even with friends.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:23 PM   #54
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There are worse things in life.

My words were not meant as complaints, just frustration.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:43 AM   #55
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Warning: the following may sound like diet talk. If it seems to break the 'no diet talk rule' please report it, as obviously I'm not in a place to judge whether it is, being a mod and all that myself.


I have a question. Could those of you who want to talk about weight loss explain to me why the focus on pounds lost and gained appears to be the most compelling part of the discussion of dieting and weight loss? If the reason people want to discuss weight loss is because it is the focus of one's improved health and well-being, then why can't that same discussion be held talking about everything that goes into the process without focusing on numbers?

For example, I can talk about healthy eating, exercise, and now disordered eating on Dims, and I can do this in detail and cover everything I do in my own life that has resulted in a noticeable change in my body, without ever mentioning pounds, calorie counts, and so forth. Adding in that I am now less in body mass than I was does not change anything about the process it took for me to get here, a place where I am still 'morbidly obese' but with vibrant health and the A-OK from a nutritionist for the food choices that I make.

Even for people bigger than I am, can't one instead talk about things like increased mobility, fitting into public spaces easier, and a whole other list of improvements from weight loss without actually having to talk about pounds lost? Couldn't one talk about the content of one's 'diet' (whole grains, fresh fruit and veggies, lean meats, perhaps) without talking about calories counted and fat grams counted, and get the same message across? Can't one talk about one's attempts to de-link eating from emotional cues, without talking about exact percentages of portions restricted and so forth?

I think one can have the exact same conversation about weight and food without focusing on measurements, and when we have the conversation focusing on all the 'healthy' behaviors that go into changes people want to make about their body, we are having the discussion that could truly, IMO, be of benefit to each other, and have a conversation that includes those who are against diet talk as well as those who are for it. When we reframe the exact same discussion as one about behaviors, and not the physical component of our states of being, we help to erase the stigma that surrounds all bodies that don't appear to fit a very narrow realm of 'fit/healthy' bodies.
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:38 AM   #56
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Good question.

I was recently talking to a trainer at my gym who has a subspecialty in working with SS clients. She talked about the affects of weight loss in a much more holistic way than "you can fit into this size" or "you start getting more attention from hot chicks" but she talked more about "fitting in places you couldn't fit before" and "experiencing a greater ease at getting around which allows you to feel like you better belong to the world" and just generally "being able to do things you could not do before". I thought those were great answers.

But. On the other hand.

The fact is, in many cases, losing weight is going to bring benefits that you are happy with that may have nothing to do with health. It could be pride at an accomplishment, it could be happiness at not having to order clothes from a catalogue but being able to go to a brick and morter store "like everyone else", it could be increased interest or attention from a partner if your partner is not an FA, it could be increased interest from women (or men, whichever your sexual preference), it could be feeling kickass at going to a high school reunion if you were the fat kid and having everyone "WOW" over you.

So I guess part of this question is, where would you draw the line? If I follow a certain eating plan and my blood sugars or cholesterol stabilizes, that's ok to talk about but it's not ok to say "I fit into a size ____ for the first time ever and I'm so proud."

The numbers question is interesting too. On the Weight Board with the "Skinniest and Fattest" pictures, all of them state how much the subject weighed in the picture. Some posts have several photos in which the subject goes up and down in weight and the final picture is NOT the highest weight and the text may conclude with something like "In this picture I weigh _____, I feel healthiest and sexiest at this weight". In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:48 AM   #57
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Warning: the following may sound like diet talk. If it seems to break the 'no diet talk rule' please report it, as obviously I'm not in a place to judge whether it is, being a mod and all that myself.


I have a question. Could those of you who want to talk about weight loss explain to me why the focus on pounds lost and gained appears to be the most compelling part of the discussion of dieting and weight loss? If the reason people want to discuss weight loss is because it is the focus of one's improved health and well-being, then why can't that same discussion be held talking about everything that goes into the process without focusing on numbers?

For example, I can talk about healthy eating, exercise, and now disordered eating on Dims, and I can do this in detail and cover everything I do in my own life that has resulted in a noticeable change in my body, without ever mentioning pounds, calorie counts, and so forth. Adding in that I am now less in body mass than I was does not change anything about the process it took for me to get here, a place where I am still 'morbidly obese' but with vibrant health and the A-OK from a nutritionist for the food choices that I make.

Even for people bigger than I am, can't one instead talk about things like increased mobility, fitting into public spaces easier, and a whole other list of improvements from weight loss without actually having to talk about pounds lost? Couldn't one talk about the content of one's 'diet' (whole grains, fresh fruit and veggies, lean meats, perhaps) without talking about calories counted and fat grams counted, and get the same message across? Can't one talk about one's attempts to de-link eating from emotional cues, without talking about exact percentages of portions restricted and so forth?

I think one can have the exact same conversation about weight and food without focusing on measurements, and when we have the conversation focusing on all the 'healthy' behaviors that go into changes people want to make about their body, we are having the discussion that could truly, IMO, be of benefit to each other, and have a conversation that includes those who are against diet talk as well as those who are for it. When we reframe the exact same discussion as one about behaviors, and not the physical component of our states of being, we help to erase the stigma that surrounds all bodies that don't appear to fit a very narrow realm of 'fit/healthy' bodies.
I probably don't qualify to answer this. I'm one of the meanies here who don't want to see diet talk happen here. Nevertheless I currently am dieting and from my observation, you can't discuss it without the obligatory measures. It's the proof in the pudding so to speak. For example, as a supersized person it takes a lot to fuel this body. The standard concepts behind weight loss tend to meet with defeat simply based on not getting enough nutrients to propel a 400+ pound body to full capacity. The body doesn't even have enough energy to fuel the process of weight loss let alone maintining mental focus and all that stuff on a diet currently described as balanced and healthy for the average person. So for super sized weight loss it's a slow and unique process balancing act that only a tried true super sized person, particularly female, would be able to relate to or have experience with.

If you look hard enough, there are a few ideas floating around but some of them are horribly dangerous. Many times the dangerous risks are deliberately witheld and you don't get to hear from the people who are left crippled because of a diet designed by a body builder who seemed like he knew what he was doing. The way to learn what's new and happening among SS people is to ask around, something that is forbidden here. Part of that discussion includes watching and measuring to see if it's working -- it can't be too fast or too slow. Also bear in mind everyone is going to have different experiences with it so what is a blooming success for one person will be an abyssmal failure for another. Their current idea will have to be abandoned for another and the process of watching what happens begins again with doctors and family members breathing down your back the whole way down. It's trial and error and without a forum in which to ask questions and discuss issues unique to our disposition we're all individually feeling our way around in the dark within close proximity to each other. This is especially troubling for those for whom weight loss is do or die. Their disposition is critical and somethig absolutely *must* be done. There are people right here who've already traveled that way and there is no arena in which to seek help from anyone other than the standard cheerleading that goes on elsewhere. Here would conceptually be a more sane approach to weight loss based on fact and not concept or hype. Elsewhere the advice would be fantasy and arbitrary. The changes and rebellion in a supersized body going through weight loss simply aren't the same as it is for the average dieter and I personally wouldnt be excited to be smugly lectured by a bikinin clad swimsuit model who lost 60 pounds on slimfast. Her body's response to dieting is not going to be like mine or like someone at 500+ who needs to lose 150 pounds to still be twice what she weighs. There is simply no common ground there.

In defense of my stance on not wanting weight loss talk here. I think an arena such as the one I described above needs to exist. I'm just not so certain we should insist that it exist here. People want a weight loss free zone and I think that desire should be respected. I'm in favor of any attempt to build something elsewhere though.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:57 AM   #58
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that's not the focus of my discussion. I don't think I ever brought up weight loss in that context. I can tell you life is a lot easier and I can move so much better now. I try not to focus on mainstream diet boards, because I've been very fat and don't care what others think. my body, my life, I have to be comfortable in it. I guess there's so much emotional baggage attached to certain numbers that you need to remove yourself from that mindset.

again, I was afraid if I brought up issues of improved mobility and all that fun stuff, I would be considered a weight loss shill anyway. sometimes I feel like people here think the only way you should lose weight if you're in a dire situtation, on death's door so to speak (not quite that but you know, ailing health). I was young and not doing well. I won't go into family history and bore everyone. I'll respect that this community doesn't allow weight loss talk. It'll forever be our albatross much like cochlear implantation in the Deaf community.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:18 AM   #59
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sometimes I feel like people here think the only way you should lose weight if you're in a dire situtation, on death's door so to speak (not quite that but you know, ailing health).
And even then you can't talk about it. I have seen people in this thread, speaking of recent numbers lost, but if I so much as breathe in the downward direction it is a no no. The last time people on this site encouraged weight loss was when Lexi (RIP) was struggling. And even then they were supportive, it was more like "well, you should lose weight, duh" sort of thing.

I don't even care anymore. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I have facebook to brag about #s lost. Here I brag about stuffing my face. It's very dysfunctional, but it works....I guess.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:47 AM   #60
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The numbers question is interesting too. On the Weight Board with the "Skinniest and Fattest" pictures, all of them state how much the subject weighed in the picture. Some posts have several photos in which the subject goes up and down in weight and the final picture is NOT the highest weight and the text may conclude with something like "In this picture I weigh _____, I feel healthiest and sexiest at this weight". In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.
To be honest THIS is the main reason i find it weird that numbers can't be discussed. They seem to be ok in a fetish setting here and to describe how much weight is gained but not in a health or general info sense (one which is subjective and not about fetish).
Anyway, otherwise, i think that Butch, the way you describe is a nicer and i think politically more fat friendly way of saying 'i have lost weight' without actually saying it. That sounds snarky i just realised.. but i didn't mean it that way.. I think some of the ways you describe focus less on numbers and more on accomplishments almost, which i think is good. I guess, its more the disparity between who is allowed to discuss numbers that sticks in my craw.
Anyway..Butch...you brought this up.. now you need to get it back on track to the OP!!
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:58 AM   #61
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In defense of my stance on not wanting weight loss talk here. I think an arena such as the one I described above needs to exist. I'm just not so certain we should insist that it exist here. People want a weight loss free zone and I think that desire should be respected. I'm in favor of any attempt to build something elsewhere though.
Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!!
What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:37 AM   #62
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In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.
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I think some of the ways you describe focus less on numbers and more on accomplishments almost, which i think is good. I guess, its more the disparity between who is allowed to discuss numbers that sticks in my craw.
Anyway..Butch...you brought this up.. now you need to get it back on track to the OP!!
All I can say is that, please if you see weightloss numbers being discussed, report it, as we cannot see every single thing -- even sometimes in threads we are participating in. Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean it's condoned. What it often means is that no one has reported it and it hasn't been seen.

All I know is that it was not easy to get to the point where this thread was even allowed to exist, but it does. And yet that's not enough, there has to be diet talk and weight loss talk and talk of numbers, when at first people were saying they just wanted a space to talk about EDs here. I know people get sick of hearing, "if you want this or that, go make it yourself, because it's not allowed here," but that is the truth of it. If this thread is not good enough, and if there must be talk of numbers and diets, weight lost, etc, then the thread might as well be closed again, because it is now not being used for what those who have written us claimed it was needed for; now it is being used to discuss the desire to be able to have weight loss talk here. If this is all it's going to be used for, it will just be closed again, because it will not be serving its purpose, and good luck getting another thread for EDs on this board.

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Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!!
What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.
Good luck with that one. Bring it up to Conrad if you like, and watch it not happen. This is not what this place was ever for, and he's been consistent in his desire not to have that here. Make a new place with Dims people who want to discuss the issue, so that you still have the people you get along with, who have a different POV than the standard weight loss boards, and do your thing. It's not that I don't understand the need for some to discuss weight loss, numbers, mobility, etc (though I think the number talk has been drilled into too many of us from childhood, so it's how we were taught to think, but anyway), because goodness knows, I do, and have -- just not here, at Dimensions. As long as you have a place to go with those you enjoy posting with, does it really matter where it is?
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #63
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Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!!
What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.
At one time I was very anti diet. Nope nope nope nope. not me. Now I'm old though. I'm old and alone and there's only me to chase those meddling kids away so I have to keep my wits about me. This means a 'touch' of weight loss, at least for now. Like I've said above, I'd love to see a forum for fat weight loss exist.

That being said my memory of being anti diet is still daisy fresh! I don't know what tips these bots off of my existence but it seems I can't make a peep anywhere online without the vermin of acai berry weight loss miracle being scrawled across my screen somewhere. I got sick of it then, I'm still sick of it now. Sure I don't have to click and read so I ignore them. Of course it would be nice to have one place to go where every fat chaser in the world isn't going to come running towards me. The idea that a weight loss forum can exist here, ssh ssh secret secret, and just be ignored is the same as trying to ignore all the diet ads that show up on your myspace/facebook page. Or the spammers who will create personas like 'Bambigirl' here simply to sign on and bomb the place with "OMG i just discovered the best wl secret evar!! ===== > Click Here!! Once you open the portal it's pretty much done. Seriously. I think the need for a sanctum from this and from seeing stuff like this is important too.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:14 AM   #64
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All I can say is that, please if you see weightloss numbers being discussed, report it, as we cannot see every single thing -- even sometimes in threads we are participating in. Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean it's condoned. What it often means is that no one has reported it and it hasn't been seen.

All I know is that it was not easy to get to the point where this thread was even allowed to exist, but it does. And yet that's not enough, there has to be diet talk and weight loss talk and talk of numbers, when at first people were saying they just wanted a space to talk about EDs here. I know people get sick of hearing, "if you want this or that, go make it yourself, because it's not allowed here," but that is the truth of it. If this thread is not good enough, and if there must be talk of numbers and diets, weight lost, etc, then the thread might as well be closed again, because it is now not being used for what those who have written us claimed it was needed for; now it is being used to discuss the desire to be able to have weight loss talk here. If this is all it's going to be used for, it will just be closed again, because it will not be serving its purpose, and good luck getting another thread for EDs on this board.


Good luck with that one. Bring it up to Conrad if you like, and watch it not happen. This is not what this place was ever for, and he's been consistent in his desire not to have that here. Make a new place with Dims people who want to discuss the issue, so that you still have the people you get along with, who have a different POV than the standard weight loss boards, and do your thing. It's not that I don't understand the need for some to discuss weight loss, numbers, mobility, etc (though I think the number talk has been drilled into too many of us from childhood, so it's how we were taught to think, but anyway), because goodness knows, I do, and have -- just not here, at Dimensions. As long as you have a place to go with those you enjoy posting with, does it really matter where it is?
Ahh.. i was talking about discussing numbers for weight 'gain'. I think that is allowed. I havn't seen evidence of numbers being discussed in the weight loss depo.
I know there is to be no talk of actual weight loss, though i never knew that included not talking about talking about weight loss. I was pretty much responding to butch and i think her ideas were good. I don't want this conversation to continue here because i think OE is an important issue and it would be a shame to have the thread closed again.
I may make a proposal to Conrad that no numbers should be discussed-Including weight gain, just to make it equal. (I imagine some fat people feel crap too when weight gain is discussed..). As you say though..i can't see that happening.. Plus if people are happy they have gained weight i don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed to say so. I have no problem with that actually.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:27 AM   #65
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I think that it was discussed in this thread before Butch's post, though, and took her post to be in response to the subject and agree with her. This isn't meaning to chide anyone, though I can see where some might take it that way. It's more out of frustration. Wanting to give people all we can, within the bounds, but there still being immovable bounds, and that likely not changing.

Not even attempting to speak for Conrad, but I'm guessing that won't fly, Mer. After all, there are tons of places on the net where weight loss is being talked about, and praising thin men and women and praising those who have lost weight to become thin, but very few places where fat women and men are praised (and I'm not talking naked photos, but just singing the praises of fat people), and where actual weight gain can be discussed, for those who are into it. I don't think it was ever Conrad's goal to make it equal here that there can be no numbers of any kind. And why should it be? This isn't to say I agree with or like everything on the site, because there are a number of places I don't look, purposely. But I think that given that we're surrounded daily by messages about how we aren't good enough as we are and that we need to lose weight -- still, after almost 30 years of NAAFA and fat acceptance and size acceptance efforts -- there's nothing wrong with having a place where weight gain and those numbers can be discussed. It's not my thing, but I haven't a problem with it. Nor do I personally have a problem with not being able to talk about goal weights and diets here. I think it's not only okay to have separate places, but actually preferable, in many ways.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:12 AM   #66
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hey i can relate to people who get tired of hearing the diet talk myself so i understand that position too.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:33 AM   #67
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The thing with me and OA is not about weight loss, it is about addressing my addiction to eating, and my frantic behaviour around food.
Everything I am working on is based around that, gaining a more sane way to be around food and eating.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:59 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Shosh View Post
The thing with me and OA is not about weight loss, it is about addressing my addiction to eating, and my frantic behaviour around food.
Everything I am working on is based around that, gaining a more sane way to be around food and eating.
exactly! and thats why this thread is important
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Old 11-22-2009, 04:56 PM   #69
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Never heard or talked about dieting in the OA meetings I attended. The themes talked about there were usually along the lines of self worth and relationships with others.

I first started out by reading a book about Compulsive Overeating. One of the first things it said to do was stop dieting. The book stated that dieting implies there is something wrong with you.....and that notion will not allow you to feel good enough about yourself to ever stop COE (compulsive overeating). You focus too much on a number on the scale and your whole emotional spectrum for a day can be determined by that number. The book had me take that number out of the equation of how I felt about myself and determine my self worth.

As far as the faith based part, it's very "open" as far as what a person determines to be their "higher power". For example, a pagan could hold a faith in "Earth Mother" if that is what he/she is comfortable with. I never felt a pressure to believe in God......but thought the idea of higher power was used as a release for when a person feels out of control with their life....or eating.

I'm glad to see this thread is open. This is a subject close to me that I have been very open about on the boards. We NEED this thread, IMHO.
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Old 11-22-2009, 10:48 PM   #70
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GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?

I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.

At one point, I had to go to a hypnotist who was a complete asshole. He held up a Barbie doll and asked if I wanted to look like Barbie. Being 10 years old or so, I said "yes", because I wanted to look like just about anyone but me, since I was always the fattest wherever I went. But the dude was an idiot. I was never, every hypnotized. I just pretended because I sensed it was so important to my mother. I'd weigh in and not have lost weight and the idiot would lose it, and scream at me that I'd always be fat and I'll never look like Barbie!!!!

Promises of clothes, all kinds of things if I'd lose weight were always involved. To this day if I sense that someone is trying to control my food I flip out a bit. And that's aside from the emotional component to what, how much, and how often I eat in that it's too often an coping mechanism.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:47 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina View Post
GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?

I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.

At one point, I had to go to a hypnotist who was a complete asshole. He held up a Barbie doll and asked if I wanted to look like Barbie. Being 10 years old or so, I said "yes", because I wanted to look like just about anyone but me, since I was always the fattest wherever I went. But the dude was an idiot. I was never, every hypnotized. I just pretended because I sensed it was so important to my mother. I'd weigh in and not have lost weight and the idiot would lose it, and scream at me that I'd always be fat and I'll never look like Barbie!!!!

Promises of clothes, all kinds of things if I'd lose weight were always involved. To this day if I sense that someone is trying to control my food I flip out a bit. And that's aside from the emotional component to what, how much, and how often I eat in that it's too often an coping mechanism.
Tina, i'm not sure whether to answer this because my strange relationship with food seemed to go away at some point (To be replaced with other compulsions) though from all the people i have talked to about eating disorders there seems to be some point in childhood where either they have had a parent who has been diet obsessed (i think children learn so much from these early experiences of 'how to be') or has tried to force them to 'diet' or has made comments to them about their weight.
The thing with (hopefully i can talk about diets in this context if not feel free to delete) 'diets' like these is that i think they create eating disorders because people feel hungry but are denied food, food is seen as forbidden, they feel 'they' will be seen as failing if they 'give in' to food. Horrible. It is humans nature to eat when we are hungry, so if we starve ourselves in this way we might eat in secret and give more importance to food than we would have if we had just been able to eat what we had wanted.
I think it can also work in the other direction (thought i don't think the model for eating disorders is as simple as it seems i am making out here). My best friend at school was by medical standards 'overweight' - *Don't read on if you are squeemish* Her mum basically forced her to eat and she wasnt alllowed to leave the table till she had finished. i used to stay over for dinner (I was allowed not to eat everything as i was a guest but i was teased a lot for being thin)- I have a memory of my friend actually throwing up on her plate and her mum made her eat it. It must have really fucked up my friend, i mean obviously as she was subjected to child abuse. We pretty much lost touch when we were teenagers and only met up on a few occasions, each time she was looking more and more thin. My friend who keeps in touch with her said she has a sort of anorexia/bulimia type disorder. To be honest, i don't think it would take an eminant psychologist to work out the main root cause of her disorder.
I know its not as simple as that; That there may be other life influences or perhaps even a predisposition to addiction etc but i think parental behaviour is usually one of the main reasons for any sort of disordered behaviour.
In the case of my friend i can see why feeling so out of control as far as food went would make her want to regain control when she was old enough to be able to. I would say with my compulsions they were all to do with having control over something when there was no control in other aspects of my life.
I'm sorry you went through that Tina, it must have been pretty traumatic. I remember a friend at high school's wee sister used to drink weight watchers shakes for her lunch and she must have been about 12 at the time!!! There are so many reasons why this is wrong, though socially she must have felt really left out. I want to let GD tell her own story if she choses but i remember her saying once thing to me- That when she was younger and her friends would be eating chips (bags of fries) after they went swimming or something, she would feel really left out and be starving because she didn't want to be seen as the 'fat girl eating chips' (though she said that actually she wasn't fat at the time at all but was an early developer) so she would wait till she got home and be secretive about food.
Its so horrible what we go through and what others put us through when we are children that invariably effects us for the rest of our lives or that we need to fight very hard for it not to affect us.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:27 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina View Post
GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?

I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.

At one point, I had to go to a hypnotist who was a complete asshole. He held up a Barbie doll and asked if I wanted to look like Barbie. Being 10 years old or so, I said "yes", because I wanted to look like just about anyone but me, since I was always the fattest wherever I went. But the dude was an idiot. I was never, every hypnotized. I just pretended because I sensed it was so important to my mother. I'd weigh in and not have lost weight and the idiot would lose it, and scream at me that I'd always be fat and I'll never look like Barbie!!!!

Promises of clothes, all kinds of things if I'd lose weight were always involved. To this day if I sense that someone is trying to control my food I flip out a bit. And that's aside from the emotional component to what, how much, and how often I eat in that it's too often an coping mechanism.
Speaking only for myself I know that my parents played a huge role in the disordered eating I experienced through childhood and adulthood. Not just them but my siblings and the world at large also. I was berated every time I ate. I would eat what was aportioned to me and still be hungry. For this I was made to feel like an animal and spent my whole life hiding food and not wanting to be seen eating. I suffered from depression which I believe was induced by improper nutrition. Who knows why my apetite was so large. I could never understand how the kids I knew could dawdle along knawing for an hour on a piece of cheese giggling while it turns yellow in their hand. My hunger was a physical state. It wasn't some mechanism I used to cope or whatever. Something physical was in play but it was never properly examined or investigated, rather I was blamed and ridiculed like a beast. A lot of well meaning people invested a lot of effort trying to convince me that I was a compulsive eater when actually I was a compulsive starver. lol

In my parents defense though, they really did try. I was taken to doctors and they ran tests and took blood. Everything said I was normal in every way even though you could look at me and see that I was bigger and taller than every kid my age and I had boobs and hips already. The doctors told them they believed that my eating should be curbed or I would get diabetes or have a stroke, an idea that was pure conjecture with no evidence at all to support it. I feel reluctant to go out on a limb and blame parents so much. People just didn't and still don't know half the stuff they need to and parents are doing the best they can with what they understand. I blame a shitty world system that thrives on apathy and blame for every little thing but that's a rant for another day. At least that's what happened in my case. I don't hold a grudge against my parents but I've made it clear that my weight is not up for discussion.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:15 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina View Post
GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?

I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.

At one point, I had to go to a hypnotist who was a complete asshole. He held up a Barbie doll and asked if I wanted to look like Barbie. Being 10 years old or so, I said "yes", because I wanted to look like just about anyone but me, since I was always the fattest wherever I went. But the dude was an idiot. I was never, every hypnotized. I just pretended because I sensed it was so important to my mother. I'd weigh in and not have lost weight and the idiot would lose it, and scream at me that I'd always be fat and I'll never look like Barbie!!!!

Promises of clothes, all kinds of things if I'd lose weight were always involved. To this day if I sense that someone is trying to control my food I flip out a bit. And that's aside from the emotional component to what, how much, and how often I eat in that it's too often an coping mechanism.
Dude. You just wrote my history.

My first diet was about 3 years old. I've been sneaking food ever since.

Every time my mom put me on a diet, she would have me go through the JCPenny catalog and circle all the new clothes I wanted. Talk about torture. I never got any of those clothes, because I could never lose weight.

To make matters worse, my mom was a bit heavy (about 250ish) and she believed fat girls couldn't wear pants. For my first 8 years....YEARS of school, I had to wear a dress every day.....talk about giving the bullies an easy target.

Then I got into high school and refused to wear dresses...so I was allowed black stretch pants, no stipes and t shirts that were super long.

My dad is equally evil, if not more so. He has a food obsession himself and watches everything everyone eats like a hawk. If you had more than you "share" he would come unglued....and it made me feel so shameful.

My parents gave me an eating disorder starting at 3 years old and it just got worse and worse. They also gave me a terrible body image and 0 self respect.

I don't "blame" them, as I am an adult now and in control...sort of....but they did their best and giving me issues.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:06 AM   #74
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GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
Yes.

But.

When I was 13, my dad sat me down and told me I looked like a MACK truck, was fat and ugly and that nobody would ever love me. He said the only way i'd ever get married is if all the other girls were taken and some guy got stuck with me. (I was 5'6 and a size 14, so heavy but not SS) Within the year I'd quit eating and was on my way to killing myself. I'd run up and down the stairs after a meal of tomato juice and egg whites, I was cold all the time and wouldn't eat for days. I became bulimic which lasted for around 13 years. In college i'd drive out the side of the highway and throw up so the girls in my house wouldn't know. I abused laxatives and pretty much hated myself forever. I shied away from having female friends because i knew i'd be jealous when they got married since I wouldn't be able to. I joined the hookup culture in college and made sure everyone knew I "wasn't looking for a relationship" since I just knew any guy would laugh at me if he thought I fancied myself girlfriend material.

So I recently moved and live near my dad again. We belong to the same gym. He's a world ranked masters athlete and the Jack Lalanne type who's pushing 70 and bench pressing more than the 30 year olds. Last week I ran into him when I was on the Stairmaster and he came over and said "So how many flights are you doing?" The machine has an LCD readout that tells you how many flights you've climbed, how many miles, how many calories you've burned, etc. I said I never looked at that, I was just aiming for time and intensity. I checked the "flights" readout" and calculated what I figured it would be at the end and I said "About 166 flights" and he said "Well my record is 189 flights in an hour". And I didn't get mad at him at all, he works his tail off and he's super proud of himself. I finished my workout and it turned out I miscalculated and had actually done 199 flights. I was like "huh...nice." Over the next couple of days while working out, I would note the "flights climbed" readouts and tried to increase it. At first it felt like revenge or like I was exorcising my demons, besting him at his own game but eventually it started to feel postive, like a friendly competition.

Yesterday, I ran into him again and waved. We did our respective cardio, and he came over to say hi when I was done. I grinned like the Cheshire Cat and said "I did 229 flights in an hour, I beat your record by 40 flights." I no longer felt angry or resentful, just proud of myself. He gave me a begrudging nod and said "Well I need to get back on there then." I said "Well you should get an age handicap...you got 27 years on me." He said "Age handicaps are bullshit..you never get better if you make excuses."

It really started to crystalize for me then what he'd really meant all those years ago. He was just trying to help. He meant well. He screwed the pooch on it for sure, but the bottom line is he meant well. He didn't want me to go dateless, get made fun of, miss the prom, or go through any other unhappiness a fat girl would go through. He meant well.

As this thought was flowing through my head, I went to do my stretching. I had my ipod on but as I was lying on the ground pulling my hamstrings, my dad showed up and was standing over me shaking his head. He said "No you're doing this wrong" and he bent down and rearranged my legs and started pushing one leg back towards my face and talked me through the right breathing and resistance the way a yoga teacher would. I didn't feel angry or resentful....I felt really blessed because he was trying to help. Meaning well. Afterwords he said he'd seen me doing situps and he said "There are better core exercises you should be doing...come on...." and he put me through a punishing core workout and gave me a schedule to work on.

Just as we all grow, we have to remember our parents never stop growing either. Your child is always your child but your parent is also always your parent. They can grow and change and get better no matter how old either of you is. I realized we'd come full circle because he'd grown up from a 40 year old who only knew how to threaten and bribe to a nearly 70 year old who gained the wisdom to say "I want what's best for you and I'm going to teach you how to do it. I know you're capable of great strength and accomplishment but I'm not going to get that out of you by bullying you, I'm going to get it out of you by being a parent and showing you how to do it and challenging you and letting you know I think you can do something."

That was very longwinded but it is something that meant a lot to me.

Last edited by LoveBHMS; 11-24-2009 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:20 AM   #75
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vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!vardon_grip keeps pushing the rep limit!
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Originally Posted by LoveBHMS View Post
Yes.

But.

When I was 13, my dad sat me down and told me I looked like a MACK truck, was fat and ugly and that nobody would ever love me. He said the only way i'd ever get married is if all the other girls were taken and some guy got stuck with me. (I was 5'6 and a size 14, so heavy but not SS) Within the year I'd quit eating and was on my way to killing myself. I'd run up and down the stairs after a meal of tomato juice and egg whites, I was cold all the time and wouldn't eat for days. I became bulimic which lasted for around 13 years. In college i'd drive out the side of the highway and throw up so the girls in my house wouldn't know. I abused laxatives and pretty much hated myself forever. I shied away from having female friends because i knew i'd be jealous when they got married since I wouldn't be able to. I joined the hookup culture in college and made sure everyone knew I "wasn't looking for a relationship" since I just knew any guy would laugh at me if he thought I fancied myself girlfriend material.

So I recently moved and live near my dad again. We belong to the same gym. He's a world ranked masters athlete and the Jack Lalanne type who's pushing 70 and bench pressing more than the 30 year olds. Last week I ran into him when I was on the Stairmaster and he came over and said "So how many flights are you doing?" The machine has an LCD readout that tells you how many flights you've climbed, how many miles, how many calories you've burned, etc. I said I never looked at that, I was just aiming for time and intensity. I checked the "flights" readout" and calculated what I figured it would be at the end and I said "About 166 flights" and he said "Well my record is 189 flights in an hour". And I didn't get mad at him at all, he works his tail off and he's super proud of himself. I finished my workout and it turned out I miscalculated and had actually done 199 flights. I was like "huh...nice." Over the next couple of days while working out, I would note the "flights climbed" readouts and tried to increase it. At first it felt like revenge or like I was exorcising my demons, besting him at his own game but eventually it started to feel postive, like a friendly competition.

Yesterday, I ran into him again and waved. We did our respective cardio, and he came over to say hi when I was done. I grinned like the Cheshire Cat and said "I did 229 flights in an hour, I beat your record by 40 flights." I no longer felt angry or resentful, just proud of myself. He gave me a begrudging nod and said "Well I need to get back on there then." I said "Well you should get an age handicap...you got 27 years on me." He said "Age handicaps are bullshit..you never get better if you make excuses."

It really started to crystalize for me then what he'd really meant all those years ago. He was just trying to help. He meant well. He screwed the pooch on it for sure, but the bottom line is he meant well. He didn't want me to go dateless, get made fun of, miss the prom, or go through any other unhappiness a fat girl would go through. He meant well.

As this thought was flowing through my head, I went to do my stretching. I had my ipod on but as I was lying on the ground pulling my hamstrings, my dad showed up and was standing over me shaking his head. He said "No you're doing this wrong" and he bent down and rearranged my legs and started pushing one leg back towards my face and talked me through the right breathing and resistance the way a yoga teacher would. I didn't feel angry or resentful....I felt really blessed because he was trying to help. Meaning well. Afterwords he said he'd seen me doing situps and he said "There are better core exercises you should be doing...come on...." and he put me through a punishing core workout and gave me a schedule to work on.

Just as we all grow, we have to remember our parents never stop growing either. Your child is always your child but your parent is also always your parent. They can grow and change and get better no matter how old either of you is. I realized we'd come full circle because he'd grown up from a 40 year old who only knew how to threaten and bribe to a nearly 70 year old who gained the wisdom to say "I want what's best for you and I'm going to teach you how to do it. I know you're capable of great strength and accomplishment but I'm not going to get that out of you by bullying you, I'm going to get it out of you by being a parent and showing you how to do it and challenging you and letting you know I think you can do something."

That was very longwinded but it is something that meant a lot to me.
The last paragraph was touching. Good for both of you.
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