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Old 11-20-2009, 08:28 AM   #51
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I kind of skimmed the thread so if this was already brought up, I'm sorry. Obviously I can't really y'know, have children in that way, but I am wondering about something.

I've got a friend who is 28 and doesn't have any kids tell me that all her friends she grew up with that now have children have all blown her off in favor of just hanging out with each other. All her friends without children still manage to stick together. Is this something anyone else has found to be the case? I guess she is feeling that because she doesn't have children she is being osterized for it. Like she is a lesser person to them now because she can't relate to the whole being a mother deal therefore they now have NOTHING in common.

I guess I don't really understand that. I know raising a kid is a HUGE deal, but I don't understand why some one would forsake their previous identity completely because of it. Sometimes I see people with screen names/board names like "momof3" or "kylesmom" and I cringe thinking like, is that all there is now? Obviously, there is nothing wrong with being proud of being a mother, but I dunno, it seems incredibly condescending to me to think you're a better person just because you have children compared to some one who doesn't.

Although, I guess I can't judge too much since my mother's email is MotherWithASonWhoLikesFatChicks@gmail.com
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:35 AM   #52
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I want spawn. I want to populate the earth with evil little replicas of myself who propagate my ways clumsily like hybrid goons. Seriously. I do want to have kids. I think it's perfectly fine that people don't though. I know many people who don't want them. It's common in my world.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:37 AM   #53
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I think it's more like you just tend to gravitate towards those that have more in common with you. When you're a parent that is going to be a huge part of your life and you probably are going to find you have more in common with other parents the same way people hang out together because they belong to the same football team, book club, church, etc.

Having kids changes your life in a big way, and it's possible if the other person's life hasn't changed that drastically you may both feel you have less in common.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:51 AM   #54
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Sometimes I see people with screen names/board names like "momof3" or "kylesmom" and I cringe thinking like, is that all there is now?
This bothers me, too. If people wanna have kids, that's fine, but don't lose yourself.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:37 AM   #55
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Children bring about huge changes in lifetsyles, plain and simple. My husband & I lost touch with many of our old high school and college friends after they had children, simply because raising a family took so much of their time, energy and money, especially for multiple children. It's perfectly understandable that couples with children and couples without children would tend to form their own groups. Personally Art & I didn't think it a case of one group considering itself better than the other. Although a few did seem to immerse their entire identities in their children, kinda like they were growing up all over again, vicariously.

Now that we're over 50, and their kiddos are grown up and moving out, some of us are getting back in touch with each other. It turned out that some couples in each group did regard it as an "us" and "them" situation. Now that they're becoming empty-nesters, though, it's almost a non-issue, for us anyway. It's also interesting to see some of the moms regaining their own identities. Some really miss having their kids around, and some almost feel like it's a wonderful release. Can't wait to see what happens when they become grandparents, and I mean that in a good way.

With all of our nieces and nephews around, Art & I almost feel like grandparents who skipped the parent stage.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #56
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My favorite line after telling someone that I am definitely sure that I never want children is..."but you would be a great mommy." I have to bite my tongue hard at this one. I can be a caring person and not have a maternal instinct in any fiber of my make up.

I knew when I was a little girl that I didn't want to become a mother. I loved that there were people in the world who wanted to parent and create, but I have always had family issues and found it difficult to muster up that enthusiasm for continuing the family line. I am forgetful, and selfish with my time, and honestly, pretty lazy a lot - I don't see those as qualities that would be fair to some innocent child. I have a hair trigger impatience response and the idea of my wild child being a hellion is just not appealing. I kept dating people until I found someone who did not expect me to grow out of the "no-baby" stage and found my husband.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:28 AM   #57
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My favorite line after telling someone that I am definitely sure that I never want children is..."but you would be a great mommy." I have to bite my tongue hard at this one. I can be a caring person and not have a maternal instinct in any fiber of my make up.
this is to me one of the weirdest lines ever. I mean the mere fact that you might be good at something does not mean that you should do it. I'm sure there are many things you might be good at but that does not mean that you WILL be good at them or that you'd be interested in doing them.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:52 AM   #58
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Add another name to the Not Having Kids list.

I would almost go as far as to say that my husband and I hate children. Not just "dislike"...."hate." When we got married, we didn't have a pre-nupt or anything, but we did agree that if either of us ever decided that we wanted children, that would be grounds for an immediate divorce.

My main issue (aside from the hatred) is this: I think of all the things I want to do in my life, and see children as a hindrance to most of them. I am an incredibly selfish person, and don't want to waste any of my time and money on screaming, shitting babies - it would probably end in abuse, to tell the truth. So it is in everyone's best interest that I do not reproduce.

Even my mother has accepted this fact, although it took years of me telling her about the abortion I would have if I ever became pregnant.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:09 AM   #59
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Just to say, nosy & rude people will be nosy & rude people no matter what. The same ones who demand to know when you are having children (and seem offended when you say you won't) will probably tell you everything you are doing wrong as a parent (and seem offended if you aren't grateful) should you ever have kids, not to mention start demanding to know when you are going to have another kid. Example: My wife was recently interogated about when we'd have a second child, and upon her saying that we wouldn't, was told that we needed to have a second child "because the muslims are out-breeding us, we need more christian children." Nosy & rude = nosy & rude.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:06 PM   #60
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Sometimes I see people with screen names/board names like "momof3" or "kylesmom" and I cringe thinking like, is that all there is now? Obviously, there is nothing wrong with being proud of being a mother, but I dunno, it seems incredibly condescending to me to think you're a better person just because you have children compared to some one who doesn't.

Although, I guess I can't judge too much since my mother's email is MotherWithASonWhoLikesFatChicks@gmail.com
I don't have any tots of my own but i helped raise my niece and I totally get how utterly and completely having children changes every single aspect of your life - and i won't lie - its kind of scary. Most of the older women i know are no loger called by their own names, they're all called Masomebody. Its really common in these parts. My gran was called MaLisi - I'm not actually sure what my grandmother's real name was. My aunt is MaTiego, my mom's friend is called MaNtsie. Just to give it some context though - this was a badge of pride for them because for many women i know being a mother is still the highest achievement God can ever bless you with.

I, like Lilly, intend to spawn I also want to adopt several children. I too go googly over a puppies instead of babies, but raising my niece gave me a glimpse into a world i really want to be a part of. That said, people who are rude enough to ask questions about something as intensely personal as the choice to have children or not need to be put in their place. Also, people who think the whole world must just stop for the convenience of their offspring also need to get a clue.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:32 PM   #61
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I think i must be the only 34-year-old woman on the planet whose family DOESN'T want her to procreate. My mother freely admits that she still sees me as a teenager and can't handle the idea of me having a child. LOL.

Obviously, I'll have kids if I feel like it. Right now, I don't know if I feel like it. I'm more interested in establishing the whole "stable, loving relationship" thing first. Then, if the right person wants babies, I might decide I want babies too. Like Inhibited, I really don't want to be saddled with single parenthood. I respect single parents IMMENSELY - it's just not a way of life for which I'm cut out, being such a child myself in so many ways.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:37 PM   #62
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Example: My wife was recently interogated about when we'd have a second child, and upon her saying that we wouldn't, was told that we needed to have a second child "because the muslims are out-breeding us, we need more christian children." Nosy & rude = nosy & rude.
Yeah, that's just stab-worthy. "Kids will make you happy" is intrusive but at least well meant; "kids are your DUTY" is horrific.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:55 PM   #63
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"because the muslims are out-breeding us, we need more christian children." Nosy & rude = nosy & rude.
THIS!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!! Who is this person??! *mind boggles* When i was about 12/13 i went out with a good school friend and her family - they were all very conservative Afrikaaners and were not too sure what to make of the fat, black child suddenly eating supper with them. So her uncle, who'd had far too much to drink, starts telling me about how he likes 'well behaved blacks' and what he admires about 'you people' is how many children we have and how strong our family ties are. And then he said, which made me laugh even then just cos it was so horrificly inappropriate and racist, was that soon 'every bloody, fucking person is going to be a coloured (mixed race) cos white people won't have babies!' That was a memorable evening!
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:38 PM   #64
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Sometimes I see people with screen names/board names like "momof3" or "kylesmom" and I cringe thinking like, is that all there is now? Obviously, there is nothing wrong with being proud of being a mother, but I dunno, it seems incredibly condescending to me to think you're a better person just because you have children compared to some one who doesn't.

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This bothers me, too. If people wanna have kids, that's fine, but don't lose yourself.
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!

Or ...when a question comes up like what is your greatest success, or what are you most proud of...it's ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS "My wonderful children".

I can completely understand how being a parent is important to people. Well..understand it the wrong word, I don't understand but I can...recognize?? Appreciate...? I can't really come up with the right word..what I'm trying to say is that I in no way think people are wrong to want to be parents or be proud to be parents, and believe it or not I can sympathize with being bitter and not being able to celebrate other's joys because you want it so badly for yourself (Shit, I'm the one that planned my wedding in 3 months because my best friend announced she was being married in the fall and I wanted to get married before her...true story...how twisted is THAT?!!?)

And I do think kids are great and really really really hate when they are not treated well. But they make me feel incredibly nervous and shy and awkward, but I think they can be hilarious and very very sweet. Especially if I'm witnessing it via internet or TV or something (haha)

The funny thing is, I'm a friggin kid magnet. My friends kids call me on the phone, they always want to sit right near me when I'm with them and they think I'm the funniest thing ever- probably because I talk about farts alot.

What gets me is the things like "you'd be such a great Mom, you have to have at least one" or "You'll want them when the time is right". Ummm..no don't and no I won't. I know this about me. And to have to try to put into words and politely explain when I'm put on the spot about an incredibly personal issue is exhausting. I'd rather discuss the details of my visit to my GYN than have to explain why I don't want children.

And BGB- nail on the head. It goes without saying that having children changes EVERYTHING. I was talking to a friend at work that has a two year old and you wouldn't believe what she has to do just to take a pee- seriously. But for some reason I find that the dynamics of female relationships changes when one has children and one remains childless, and nobody ever actually speaks it but it's that elephant in the room that you're on different levels somehow because one has offspring and the other doesn't. Most of my female friends do have kids, which is one reason I don't have much of a social life to be honest.

I have so much more to say but this is already way too long lol...so I'll be back
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:11 PM   #65
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One of my girlfriends is a proud mother, but she does keep it in perspective. She once told me, "Insanity is hereditary. You get it from your children."
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:25 PM   #66
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I think i must be the only 34-year-old woman on the planet whose family DOESN'T want her to procreate. My mother freely admits that she still sees me as a teenager and can't handle the idea of me having a child. LOL.
HAHA... if I'm going to be anywhere within 100 feet of a man whose penis MIGHT see the light of day when I'm anywhere near it, I get a stern NO BABIES from my mother.

You're not alone dear lol.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:32 PM   #67
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Here's one minor but slightly annoying disadvantage for us childless couples. Today Art & I attended a wedding for at least the 4th time this year. They've been mostly for the adult children of friends. Of course we bought gifts for the newly-wedded couples, but having no children of our own, there's no way anyone can reciprocate and buy gifts for us.

Naturally it's not about coming out even. Nonetheless I did my best to make up the difference in the buffet line at the reception. Extra wedding cake with extra frosting too. Yum.

Nice music as well, so I shook a leg (or two) on the dance floor two. Gotta work off the wedding cake to eat more, ya know.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:43 PM   #68
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HAHA... if I'm going to be anywhere within 100 feet of a man whose penis MIGHT see the light of day when I'm anywhere near it, I get a stern NO BABIES from my mother.

You're not alone dear lol.
HAHA. We have a lot of experiences in common, it seems, right down to the repro-wiggy moms!
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:50 PM   #69
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I don't want any children and neither does my boyfriend. I'm very awkward and uncomfortable around kids and babies, and I guess they sense that because within minutes of meeting me they usually start bawling or trying to hide behind their mommy. They look at me with fear and suspicion! I frighten small children, yes I do.

You know what's fun, though? Playing the "how old do you think I am?" game with kids. Suddenly, your 60 year old coworker is 28 and 35 year old you is 50. Good times!
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:44 PM   #70
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Talk about the dynamic between friendships. I was at a funeral for most of the day today. My best friend all through high school and most of my 20s' father passed away this week. She lost her mom last year and now her dad. We were best of friends until she married and had children, then the dynamic of our relationship changed and we drifted apart. Through the wonders of Facebook we're in touch again but FB is about as far as it goes.

It's heart wrenching to see her now going on losing both of her parents. Recently I've been faced with a sobering reality of my own mother's mortality. I was wandering about shouldering the terror of 'what if' when I got the call about my friend's father. Naturally I wanted to be there. Since I don't have a car I had to travel by public transportation. It took me two hours through four connections. I was moments late for every connection and had to stand around in the cold waiting each time. When all was said and done I arrived at the funeral parlor over an hour later than I wanted to. Meanwhile she and her husband have two cars and three kids. As I was traveling to go there I had a lot of time so sit and stew about missing my connections. I started to get a bit salty about the whole thing knowing that if the roles were switched and I was burying my mom or dad I knew she wouldn't be there for me. Naturally her family comes first, as they should, but still... I saw a bus pull up and idle directly in front of me with a heading for a direct rout for my home turf. I was sooo tempted to jump on it and tell her I was busy with Thanksgiving prep for an out of town guest and I had to prepare for a trip out of town immediately after. It would be the truth too but I didn't feel right doing that given the circumstances. So I went. I'm glad I did but I'm way behind in all my work. Comparably the things that I'm nurturing in my life as a childless unmarried woman just simply aren't as important as hers.

Also I got a little miffed over the way things pan out at work. I have two part time coworkers, one has had two children and the other has had three. They took full maternity leave for these kids and I did a ton of fill in work on their behalf while they were gone. A while ago I got asked to go on tour as a soloist with the Boston Symphony. It required taking two and a half weeks off, most of which was without pay. I was fine with it but do you know those two biddies complained about my being out? I was livid! They started calling me 'diva' and shit. You don't know how badly I wanted to smack the shit out of those ladies. And when I asked for that time off my supervisor gave me a hard time! I had to go over her head and create all kinds of strain and drama with her over this golden opportunity. But if I said I wanted to plod out a baby they would have thrown a party. Once again, the things that are important to me are comparably meaningless and I absolutley *hate* that feeling.

[/rant]
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:28 AM   #71
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Bridget, you should absolutely do what's right for YOU. Damn, people can be such asshats, imposing their thoughts about your body on you. Whose business is it that you decide to have -- or not have -- children? Damn, people piss me off sometimes.

My own feeling is that for me, I loved motherhood. I loved all of it, being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding, all of it. But that's just how I'm wired. My mom dutifully birthed three children but was cold as ice; I was the cuddly mom with lots of kids climbing all over me and now I have a job where I'm surrounded by babies.

A rather odd things is that my kids all say they don't want to have kids, which I have to admit sometimes feels like an indictment to me, like I somehow instilled in them that this idea of motherhood was something besides joy (and a hell of a lot of hard work but also... joy). I know intellectually that I should be glad that they're not mindlessly procreating, since I see lots of that in my work and it's not good for anyone. But part of me thinks that if I were a good mom, my daughters would want to be like me... and therefore... a mom. It's just an impulsive thought, though, and obviously I support whatever life choices they make. I'm disappointed a little because my son and his girlfriend are both brilliant, thoughtful, creative and insightful citizens of the planet and are beautiful, to boot. They're among that special group of young adults that I think are going to save our asses. They are the people who SHOULD be passing on their DNA, but again that's probably just my maternal hormones speaking. I want them all to be happy, and as long as they have love in their lives, I'll be thrilled for them.

I see, every day, the end result of mindless procreation and it breaks my heart. Babies foisted on family members, parents unprepared (emotionally, financially, in every way possible) for this huge event, lots of family drama and angst because two people didn't think ahead. I'd much rather people make a conscious choice to birth and raise a child than to get there without thought. If that means fewer people give birth, somehow I think our planet will forgive us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
I think the whole point of this thread is that it's OK to never want kids and to deny that a "biological clock" has anything to do with it. I don't think anyone in this thread is merely saying "I'm not ready."

Also, plenty of women over the age of 35 have healthy babies.
Yes they do. I was born to a woman over age 35. Yes, statistically speaking there is a higher incidence of certain birth defects (Downs' type) but it's by no means a foregone conclusion -- far from it. Women seem to have a more difficult time conceiving in their 30's which I think is more relevant to most women, but still is that a reason to have a baby before you're ready? Hardly!

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I have a lot of friends who are, as they call it, "child-free," and I can respect that. Being someone who is totally for a woman's right to do as she pleases with her reproductive system, I think it's great that a woman knows what she does, and doesn't want. There are enough unwanted children in the world, so let the people who want children have them and the ones who don't want children take steps to prevent having them. Where's the rule that any and every couple has to have kids anyway?
Yes! It's all about choices, and knowing what you want.

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Originally Posted by goofy girl View Post
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!!!

Or ...when a question comes up like what is your greatest success, or what are you most proud of...it's ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS "My wonderful children".

I can completely understand how being a parent is important to people. Well..understand it the wrong word, I don't understand but I can...recognize?? Appreciate...?
Maybe you mean "acknowledge"? That it's important to them?

And just because you'd be a great mom doesn't mean you're obligated to be one. I'd be a great brain surgeon (okay, probably not, but let's just imagine for a moment that I would) does that mean I have to go into neurosurgery, if my interests and passions lie elsewhere? Hell no.

If you want to have kids, have them. If you don't, then don't. I can't even believe that people are such sheep that they're putting that kind of pressure on other people!
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Old 11-22-2009, 01:11 AM   #72
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I personally get sick of being asked if I'm a lesbian when I mention I don't want to get married and/or have children. A lesbian?!! REALLY?!!!! I could possibly see that if there weren't lesbain and gay parents, or lesbians and gays who didn't want to be married, but there are massive political debates about both. That said, part of me wants a wedding, but just for the dress and reception. No mate. Silly I know, but I think I've found the theme for my 30th birthday party!

Maybe I wear jeans too much or something...
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #73
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*ahem* I'd like to be invited to this pretend wedding party.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:30 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Vickie View Post
If you want to have kids, have them. If you don't, then don't. I can't even believe that people are such sheep that they're putting that kind of pressure on other people!
Making babies seems to be rife with this kind of thing though. I've had conversations with friends of mine who decide not to breast feed and they say people are nearly having seizures right in front of them at the concept. The stratosphere is awash with all kinds of schools of thought on what foods to feed the baby, natural toys and products, early learning methods and programs, who should sing to it and who shouldn't, etc. If your kid isn't reading and conducting a symphony orchestra by age 3 people look at you funny. It seems having children and not having children is everybody's business.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:52 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau View Post
for many women i know being a mother is still the highest achievement God can ever bless you with.
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Or ...when a question comes up like what is your greatest success, or what are you most proud of...it's ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS "My wonderful children".
YES. These. I was recently at a dinner for women working on our doctorates, and we had several female professors there who were supposed to encourage us as women in academia and to give us support and advice in getting through the process. The majority of the professors, at some point, said that the best thing they had ever done in their life was being a mother.

It's always a hard thing for me to hear, because I like to think that the variety of other things people work for and spend their lives on (besides being moms) are also valuable, meaningful, fulfilling ways to spend a life. But when I hear women say this, it always stings, like if I don't become a mother I will be missing out on the greatest joy possible in life.

I don't know if I want kids. Until a few years ago I sub-consciously thought that being fat meant that I shouldn't/couldn't deal with a pregnancy. Then a thin friend said something like, "Women of all sizes get pregnant and have kids all the time." I was like, "Wha?" And then realized I could if I wanted to. So, now, still not sure if I want to, but feel grateful knowing that I could if I did want to.
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