Darkest Africa.

[1300 Class]

I do realise that much of the mid-east and Africa's problems are due to the colonial powers decisions about national borders.

That was from another forum.

And it really gets annoying with all these bloddy "Africa apologists" running about. Most of the problems in Africa are because of the total disaster that most African government has been. When people stop apologizing for Africa, and African leaders and people start looking in their own back gardens to fix the problems rather than blaming someone else, is when developements will be made.

And most of Africa was "subjected" to imperialism, not colonialism.

[Observer]

I too get a little annoyed at the apologists. But I think you miss their point.

I'm not sure how you differentiate between Imperialism and Colonialism. France, The UK and Belgium controlled the continent after dividing it up into units which had nothing to do with traditional tribal boundaries. This occurred by agreement of the involved powers (whether you consider them Colonial or Imperial) in I believe the 19th Century with no input from the subject peoples. This is at least one cause, although in my view not the main one, of the inability of Africans to practice democracy as we know it.

Where I part company with the apologists is that they do not see is that tribalism was not considered in the stampede to end colonialism forty yeas rs ago. Tribal loyalties and traditions are as deep in Africa as the caste system was in India, These peoples have no Magna Carta or common law in their heritage and did not know what freedom meant when they were given it.

A classic example I recall from my childhood occurred in the fifties when a group of tribesman stopped a convoy of reporters and demanded "democracy" from them -- expecting to be given food! They seriously thought it was something to eat!

The fact is that democracy only works where those who have it understand it. Even in America it originally meant equality and voting primarily among the landed white males.. It took us nearly 200 years and a civil war and much strife to include everyone. before the colonial powers Africa was tribal and colonialism did not change this -- and by disrupting boundaries they exacerbated it. Many tribes speaking different languages now co-exist in one country while sharing culture with tribal brethren in another.

The other grinding problems of Africa, and this was in no way caused by the Colonialis, are lack of needed infrastructure items like shared values, understanding of economic and health principles and respect for rights and law. From Uganda to Zimbabwe to Sudan to Nigeria all that we here in the States see in Africa is tribal "might makes right and off with their heads if you disagree" thinking that Europe rose above a few centuries ago.

Colonialist/Imperialists did not solve this problem, although the "White man's destiny" fantasy aspired to. However, they did not cause it. The Africans had it five hundred years ago, they do today, and in my opinion it is theirs to fix. Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Ora Winfrey, the WHO, UNICEF, World Bank, World Vision, etc etc are all welcome to help, but I have to concur with you - all the posturing and pity parties pointing fingers at the western world is counter productive.

The third difficulty is resources. The Sahara Desert has grown to its present size because of the aftermath of the Roman/Catrhegenian conflict two millenia ago, which destroyed the forests that contained the desert. Other parts are overgrown jungle. Any attempt to address either of these will have world ecological impact if they can be addressed at all. Some countries have no real resources to develop and we all should be aware of the devastating impact of AIDS (which is totally post-Colonial).

In short, Africa is a multi-faceted problem in search of answers. I can sympathize somewhat with the despair of the apologists because I know my history. But I think they need to be less selective in what history they recite.and who they try to blame.

And that's my essay for today!

[BBW Betty]

Originally Posted by Observer

Colonialist/Imperialists did not solve this problem, although the "White man's destiny" fantasy aspired to. However, they did not cause it. The Africans had it five hundred years ago, they do today, and in my opinion it is theirs to fix. Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Ora Winfrey, the WHO, UNICEF, World Bank, World Vision, etc etc are all welcome to help, but I have to concur with you - all the posturing and pity parties pointing fingers at the western world is counter productive.

Observer: You wrote a great thing there, and I just want to add to this paragraph that so many of the do-gooders also have political agendas tied to their money and involvement. I know some do mean well, but some use the problems as a backdrop for their own benefit.

Basically, I'm agreeing, but rambling. Oops.

[SocialbFly]

i read something regarding Africa not that long ago, and it said that the whole structure of Africa would soon change due to AIDS. So many of the educated city dwellers, teachers, politicians etc have aids that they said, given 10 years the Africa we see today will not be the Africa we see tomorrow. Something to think about, and terrifying as well.

[1300 Class]

Why we can do nothing about Mugabe

I get more angry letters about Robert Mugabe's tyranny in Zimbabwe, where things go from bad to worse, than on any other topic. Most of them make the same point. Why do we busy ourselves in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, yet ignore the ruin of a country for which we were once responsible?

It is a question that can be answered only in terms of Yes, Minister.

"Humphrey, we must take action against Mugabe's destruction of Zimbabwe."

"No, minister, it would do a disservice to our best interests in Africa."

"Why not, for heaven's sake? He's a villain."

"Not in the eyes of all Africa, minister."

"Humphrey, are you mad?"

"No, minister, I'm only suggesting that many Africans do not see him as we do."

"Why not? He's starving his own people, Humphrey."

"Yes, minister, but he has managed to hold power in Africa for longer than any other leader. That earns him high esteem."

"From other African leaders, perhaps, but not from most Africans."

"Minister, for many years most Africans were under European rule. When Mugabe rants against 'imperialism' he strikes a chord with many of them."

"No imperialist, Humphrey, behaved as brutally as Mugabe does."

"That is as may be, minister, but he is 'one of them', which gives him a certain licence to behave badly. In Africa, it is recognised that 'the winner takes all'."

"Humphrey, you're doing Africa a gross injustice. The vast majority there would cheer if we gave Mugabe a hiding."

"No, minister, the majority would resent the intrusion. African governments are sensitive about outside interference. They would rally round Mugabe, and we would lose valuable interests there."

"So you are saying that we must stand idly by?"

"Yes, minister."

You may think I am taking the mickey out of the Sir Humphreys of this world. On the contrary, I fear the old booby is right.

From the 07/04/2006 in the Daily Telegraph, by W.F Deedes.

[FitChick]

Originally Posted by Australian Lord

That was from another forum.

And it really gets annoying with all these bloddy "Africa apologists" running about. Most of the problems in Africa are because of the total disaster that most African government has been. When people stop apologizing for Africa, and African leaders and people start looking in their own back gardens to fix the problems rather than blaming someone else, is when developements will be made.

And most of Africa was "subjected" to imperialism, not colonialism.

In my view, the reason for so many (as you call them) "Africa apologists" is because a lot of white liberals are so afraid of seeming racist....even though in my view they are more racist than anyone because they SEE race as an issue even when its not.