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Old 11-25-2009, 12:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Fascinita View Post
mer, for me it's cool to be able to think of fat as another form of queerness, if queerness is defined as that which dislocates sex and sexual pleasure from the exclusive province of reproduction.

Still, it's amusing to imagine that many "FAs" will likely bristle at the idea of being called queer.
haha.. yeah i need to go find dravenhawk et al. and tell them this revelation! lol
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:41 PM   #27
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Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year!
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:47 PM   #28
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I remember the 1st time i had an orgasm it took me about an hour to have one.. (A teenage mag told me how to do it!!) and that was by myself!! I thought i couldnt have one..
Do you ever have mental orgasm feelings .. like feeling more and more turned on?
Can't even get close to orgasming by myself - on the few occasions I've tried, I actually felt stupid for doing it. Haha.

Best case scenario: if I'm with someone I really want, I'll think they're sexy, want to touch them, get wet, and then slowly start to get bored.......

And now I'm done talking about my vag. LOL. Return to thread.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:58 PM   #29
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Can't even get close to orgasming by myself - on the few occasions I've tried, I actually felt stupid for doing it. Haha.

Best case scenario: if I'm with someone I really want, I'll think they're sexy, want to touch them, get wet, and then slowly start to get bored.......

And now I'm done talking about my vag. LOL. Return to thread.
Melian, i'm not done talking about your vadge! lmao. I can understand how you would get bored if you think/know that there wont be some sort of ending/conclusion? somehow to feeling turned on. The fact you get wet is testiment that your sex vadge connectors seem to be working. Have you ever been to see a doc or does it not really bother you.. or do you want me to shut the fuck up and stop talking about your vadge now??
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #30
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Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year!
Totally.. i say we rename the board lgbtf. I Dont get the whole 'q' at the end.. actually thats the first time i have seen that in any queer group.. even though i can identify with queer, wont that just mean that everyone will be queer cept Totally 100 % hetro people that only like the missionary position for when they are having babies??
The more the merrier.. but i like to know where i stand with my acronyms!
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:03 PM   #31
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Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year!
I'll say that it feels like fat is akin to queerness, at the same time that it's true that fatness has not been targeted for the kinds of sexual violence that queerness has--precisely because there are few battlelines being drawn about whether fat is a valid sexual orientation or not. At least it seems a very cursory look would show that.

Still, I lean to saying that anything that subverts the gendered order of things may challenge and disrupt gender violence, too. This would be good. Something to take pride in, indeed.

The other thing I guess I'd note is that this line of thinking--"fat as sexual orientation"--only defines the sexuality of those attracted to fat people. Somewhere in there, the sexuality of fat people themselves needs to be taken into account. Obviously, not all fat people are attracted to fat people. Even in a relationship with a "fat-sexual" (to use mer's term), the question of how the fat person identifies (if one is fat and one is thin in a couple, for example) is problematic.

Think about this: What if a fat man identifies as "straight" in a relationship with a thin woman who identifies as "fat-sexual"? Where do these sexualities meet, especially if you consider that--using the queer analogy again--straights and gays don't usually form relationships?

To me this is all wonderful and points to the possibility of sexuality being much, much more fluid than even current popular ideas have predicted. But I can see where that much fluidity can begin to feel chaotic.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:03 PM   #32
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I've had troubles with the acronyms too. One person told me it's not LGBTQ, it's LGBTQIQ. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Questioning.

So yea, CONFUSION.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:12 PM   #33
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Melian, i'm not done talking about your vadge! lmao. I can understand how you would get bored if you think/know that there wont be some sort of ending/conclusion? somehow to feeling turned on. The fact you get wet is testiment that your sex vadge connectors seem to be working. Have you ever been to see a doc or does it not really bother you.. or do you want me to shut the fuck up and stop talking about your vadge now??
Never seen a doc for it, because it has never really been a problem. In fact, I feel like it is an advantage: some people do some stupid shit for sex, but not me (I save my stupid shit for other things....).

With the nerves, though, it's not quite as simple as things working or not working. I can have intercourse and it's fine, but there is no real sensation. And now I'm going to get gross, so reader beware.......however, I get extreme pain sensations when someone touches my clitoris for extended periods of time. It it absolutely awful. So no oral sex, unless the person promises not to touch it. And no, it's not an infection thing or some other nasty shit like that. All the parts have uh, passed medical inspection and are fine - it's just the nerves that seem to be messed up.

And that is REALLY all I am going to say
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:26 PM   #34
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ok.. say no more..
Totally seperate to what melian said .. If i am feeling aroused i find it excruciating for my clit to be touched except for really gently. I dont think i actually even touch my clit directly when i am having a fap (there is no dignified was to say that!) i think i touch more above it... or its just too intense.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:28 PM   #35
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I've had troubles with the acronyms too. One person told me it's not LGBTQ, it's LGBTQIQ. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Questioning.

So yea, CONFUSION.
Oh my god.. when will it ever end!! haha..
Actually i hope it never does end, then everyone in the world give or take will be queer!
lgbtq qqlghghaalkaofmfeknkndnsllad sslslsakdekdkwdms.mdsm,S,,SS,,A,A5513%&%E(.sots stmbaoaidpt!!!!!!!!!!
One of the letters stands for 'someone of the same sex touched me by accident once and i didn't punch them'
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:18 PM   #36
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ok.. say no more..
Totally seperate to what melian said .. If i am feeling aroused i find it excruciating for my clit to be touched except for really gently. I dont think i actually even touch my clit directly when i am having a fap (there is no dignified was to say that!) i think i touch more above it... or its just too intense.
I felt touched just reading that mer. I prefer heavy handedness myself. I'm disclosing this purely for scientific reasons as this may be relevant to the topic at hand if you'll pardon the inuendo.
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:33 PM   #37
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'Spot' on..I don't think that will rub anyone up the wrong way at all Lilly!
Oh! How 1970's British comedy of us! lmao.
I have noticed (on my travels) that no two women like to be touched in exactly the same way. Whether it be how hard, where, what rhythm, with or without penetration, in what order things happen.. etc etc..
I used to read about women who had never had an orgasm (not talking about people who can't) -Generally through lack of communication of what they liked because in their day it just wasn't talked about. There was a documentary about this and there was this 70 yr old woman talking about how she had had her first orgasm recently by fapping... Not wanting to sound ageist.. but..i prefer other documentaries.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:20 PM   #38
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The TMI continues:

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Or do you just never orgasm... do you kinna brain orgasm? Ok i am being very personal.. so you don't have to answer that. ...(pssst though if you don't pm me!! )
See, I'm kind of the other way. My plumbing works fine, but I can't do the brain orgasm. It's like scratching an itch or a really good sneeze - relief of tension, but nothing mind-blowing.

=====
Something I either read somewhere or noticed myself is that there seem to be two kinds of bisexuals:

1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".

From what I've heard and the people I've met, male bi people tend to be group 1 and female bi people tend to be group 2, but obviously there are exceptions. I would hazard a guess that people who are kinky and bi are likely to be group 2 as well, but I don't have any evidence to back it up.

So, I'd say the bi-fat-sexuals fall within group 2 as well. Is where I was going with that.
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:31 PM   #39
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1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".
What's the functional difference between 1 and 2?
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:39 PM   #40
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What's the functional difference between 1 and 2?
In terms of what? Who they date? Who they fuck? Or how they make those decisions?
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:45 PM   #41
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In terms of what? Who they date? Who they fuck? Or how they make those decisions?
A bisexual is a bisexual, right? Except you're claiming different kinds of bisexuals. So I'm wondering what the differences are in how the two different kinds function, for starters. I expect it's not a matter of fashion choice or of physiology... so I'm asking about function. The categorizations you've already provided are unclear to me. A bisexual guy who dates a man but doesn't see gender... how does that differ from a bisexual guy who dates a man but does see gender?

I'm assuming your assertion is based on some noticeable difference.
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:01 PM   #42
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I'd say your two bisexual guys would be attracted to different things in the guy they're dating. It's not something the census would pick up, if that's what you're asking.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #43
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A bisexual is a bisexual, right? Except you're claiming different kinds of bisexuals. So I'm wondering what the differences are in how the two different kinds function, for starters. I expect it's not a matter of fashion choice or of physiology... so I'm asking about function. The categorizations you've already provided are unclear to me. A bisexual guy who dates a man but doesn't see gender... how does that differ from a bisexual guy who dates a man but does see gender?

I'm assuming your assertion is based on some noticeable difference.
I'll try to clarify a little bit. A difference I've seen is that some people seem to be attracted to one type of man but a different type of woman - say, they like thin males but fat females, which I have encountered before (and I think Exile just posted about his preferences being something like this, but I'm too lazy to go dig it up right now). Similarly, I have friends who are interested in very butch women but very femme men, and some who are the other way round - they prefer it when their partner exemplifies the gender stereotype rather than defies it. I am more in the "not seeing gender" camp, although it's not really that I don't "see" it as much as the gender just doesn't play a part in whether or not I'm attracted to someone; I like both masculine and feminine people of each gender, and I don't really have any gender-specific appearance preferences either (not that I find EVERYONE attractive or anything like that, but my physical preferences aren't gender-based). Does that make any kind of sense? I don't think I'm wording it well It's not like you can look at someone and go "ohhhh, they're bisexual (subtype 2)." It's just a difference that I've noticed when talking to other people who identify as bisexual - some of us seem to have a strongly gender-oriented basis to our sexuality, and some of us don't.

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:52 PM   #44
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Well a lot would depend on personality and all that but yes, I think I would be happy with a pre-op MtF. After the operation would be a problem though, I'm beig honest. I don't think I could or would be happy with a strap on or a dildo. I don't even use them myself and I think if I were blindfolded I would know the difference right away. A pre-op MtF would be perfect for me but I wouldn't want to dissuade someone from being completely happy with themselvs for my sake. A post-op FtM? I don't know. I'm too ignorant at this point to say for sure but anything is possible. If I were with a guy for 5 years and found out later that he was female 20 years ago I might be a bit miffed that I wasn't told but it wouldn't be grounds for me to leave him if I was happy before.
I love trannies, but even I would be very displeased and might even end the relationship if I find out that my partner had not been honest about something as major as a sex change.

Many post-op MtFs have such convincing, functional self-lubricating and orgasmic girly bits. They don't menstruate of course, but not all women do either. FtMs, however, are not as lucky when it comes to genital reconstruction technology, so if you need a real penis (idea, looks, function, feel, taste and all) then a post-op FtM probably won't satisfy you. Most do not opt for a phalloplasty, which creates a penis that is passable when soft and allows one to pee standing up, but erection can only be achieved with the use of prosthese (active insertion or pumping required to get your bits ready) and of course there is no ejaculation. Some go for a metoidioplasty instead, which aims to turn the testosterone-enlarged clitoris into a penis because it is much cheaper than phalloplasty and has less complications, but penetration is not possible with this technique.

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Old 11-25-2009, 09:16 PM   #45
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I love trannies, but even I would be very displeased and might even end the relationship if I find out that my partner had not been honest about something as major as a sex change.

Many post-op MtFs have such convincing, functional self-lubricating and orgasmic girly bits. They don't menstruate of course, but not all women do either. FtMs, however, are not as lucky when it comes to genital reconstruction technology, so if you need a real penis (idea, looks, function, feel, taste and all) then a post-op FtM probably won't satisfy you. Most do not opt for a phalloplasty, which creates a penis that is passable when soft and allows one to pee standing up, but erection can only be achieved with the use of prosthese (active insertion or pumping required to get your bits ready) and of course there is no ejaculation. Some go for a metoidioplasty instead, which aims to turn the testosterone-enlarged clitoris into a penis because it is much cheaper than phalloplasty and has less complications, but penetration is not possible with this technique.
Yes you're right. Later in the day as it seeped in I was thinking of coming back and retracting what I said. I'm sure I would be much more than miffed at being lied to. I was so busy focusing on what would be acceptable physically that I ignored certain crucial factors like lying and deciet.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:24 AM   #46
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I'd say your two bisexual guys would be attracted to different things in the guy they're dating. It's not something the census would pick up, if that's what you're asking.
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I'll try to clarify a little bit. A difference I've seen is that some people seem to be attracted to one type of man but a different type of woman - say, they like thin males but fat females, which I have encountered before (and I think Exile just posted about his preferences being something like this, but I'm too lazy to go dig it up right now). Similarly, I have friends who are interested in very butch women but very femme men, and some who are the other way round - they prefer it when their partner exemplifies the gender stereotype rather than defies it. I am more in the "not seeing gender" camp, although it's not really that I don't "see" it as much as the gender just doesn't play a part in whether or not I'm attracted to someone; I like both masculine and feminine people of each gender, and I don't really have any gender-specific appearance preferences either (not that I find EVERYONE attractive or anything like that, but my physical preferences aren't gender-based). Does that make any kind of sense? I don't think I'm wording it well It's not like you can look at someone and go "ohhhh, they're bisexual (subtype 2)." It's just a difference that I've noticed when talking to other people who identify as bisexual - some of us seem to have a strongly gender-oriented basis to our sexuality, and some of us don't.
I see what youse mean now.

And cheeky sez that men are more likely to be into the gendered attraction?

Any guess about why that might be?
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:48 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by cheekyjez View Post
The TMI continues:



See, I'm kind of the other way. My plumbing works fine, but I can't do the brain orgasm. It's like scratching an itch or a really good sneeze - relief of tension, but nothing mind-blowing.

=====
Something I either read somewhere or noticed myself is that there seem to be two kinds of bisexuals:

1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".

From what I've heard and the people I've met, male bi people tend to be group 1 and female bi people tend to be group 2, but obviously there are exceptions. I would hazard a guess that people who are kinky and bi are likely to be group 2 as well, but I don't have any evidence to back it up.

So, I'd say the bi-fat-sexuals fall within group 2 as well. Is where I was going with that.
I could take on board that there are at least two types of bi-sexuals.
I know of gender-typed bi-sexuals for example- Where someone loves the idea of feminine- They will date feminine women and feminine guys. Anyone masculine in the traditional sense is not a turn on for them. Of course socially we catagorize these people as bi-sexual, though i would argue that they are gender-type fetishists! lol (ok hear me out). I have no idea if this type of sexuality is constructed by way of experiences/is hormonal/innate but i seem to see this a lot. Funny enough, i see more people who like 'feminine atributes' in both male and female partners and wonder if this is because for most of us the mother is still the primary care giver (in most western settings) and if this would change if it were not the case. Of the women i know who love butch women they also tend to prefer 'feminine' men.
Also, of the few women i know who love manly men and butch women, normally (though i only know a couple) they are more leaning towards the hetrosexual end of the sexuality spectrum.
I wonder if which gender-typed people we are attracted to has any sort of relationship with where we are ourselves on the sexuality spectrum. I don't actually think that is the case, i think there are psychoanalytical reasons for our gender-type preference. I would love to conduct some sort of study on this!!.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:50 AM   #48
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I was so busy focusing on what would be acceptable physically that I ignored certain crucial factors like lying and deciet.
hehe.. dont worry, i think that can happen to us all!!
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:01 AM   #49
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The other thing I guess I'd note is that this line of thinking--"fat as sexual orientation"--only defines the sexuality of those attracted to fat people. Somewhere in there, the sexuality of fat people themselves needs to be taken into account. Obviously, not all fat people are attracted to fat people. Even in a relationship with a "fat-sexual" (to use mer's term), the question of how the fat person identifies (if one is fat and one is thin in a couple, for example) is problematic.

Think about this: What if a fat man identifies as "straight" in a relationship with a thin woman who identifies as "fat-sexual"? Where do these sexualities meet, especially if you consider that--using the queer analogy again--straights and gays don't usually form relationships?

To me this is all wonderful and points to the possibility of sexuality being much, much more fluid than even current popular ideas have predicted. But I can see where that much fluidity can begin to feel chaotic.
I can see the worry. Though i think that differing sexualities can exist within a relationship and both can be satisfied. In the case of the fat hetrosexual man/fat-sexual thin woman scenareo the woman would be satisfied by her partners size and the man would be satisfied by his partners gender (As an orientation.. not as the be all and and all obviously!)
I don't see it as one sexuality existing over another in a relationship where one partner is fat. The fat partner would also experience a 'fat sexuality' to some degree because they have the experience of being fat. Almost like a man would have to experience male sexuality even if he was in a relationship with a woman. There are different nuences in fat/fat-sexual relationships i think and i don't belive it ends at bodies. I think these relationships cross into the political, different expressions of sexuality and mindset. Both partners are equal, though different- you could look at this co-existence as 'the art of fat'. Although The focus might be different for each partner, this is generally what happens in hetro-anything relationships. I wonder if the term hetro-gender-typed has been used in a butch/femme relationship. If not -
Hetro-gendertyped (TM) lmao.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:19 AM   #50
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Oh i feel i should clarify a bit more about a fat person experiencing 'fat sexuality'. If a hetrosexual woman is with a man, it will be with her womans sexual organs (in part) that she feels pleasure with. If not pleasure then at least some kind of sexual experience. It is a womans genitals which are giving her pleasure. So you could say this is a womans sexuality although her prediliction of attraction is towards men. I think the same thing can happen experienceing sexuality through a fat body;It will be the fat person's curves and contours that feel the touch that turns them on and the specific movements and ways of the fat body that make sex different than thin body sex. Even if the fat person does not enjoy their fat specifically, they still experience fat sexuality. If they love their bodies even better, though a woman can love her body and still be hetrosexual -Just as a fat person can love their bodies while being attracted to a thin partner.
sorry.. i tried to clarify but i think i might have cloudified more!! haha
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