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Old 03-01-2010, 06:49 PM   #1
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Default Objectification?

Given all the hoopla in the lovely ladies thread here on the BBW board, I'm honestly starting to wonder what exactly ojbectification is truly and why so many women here seem to see it everywhere.

I think objectification happens when someone is trying to get something out of you (whether sexual or economic) from you without respect or concern for you feelings or needs. You can be objectified whether you are aware of it or not, whether you agree to it or not (as the case with porn may be). You can be a willing victim or not. You can be objectified (as in a relationship) in a good way too.

But is there ever a gray area? Is it really objectification is no one is abused or taken advantage of for it?

And lastly as in the context of this forum I am interested in hearing what the participants here consider to be ojectification when it comes from men and when it comes from women, or is there just no difference to some and if so why?
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:00 PM   #2
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The ' hoopla ' as you put it, was not defined the same way by all the people who took issue with it ( does not count the others who never typed a response ). I did not see ' objectification '. I think it is pretty unfortunate that you are trying to make some of the women here look like something they are not. By saying, " see it everywhere ", you are being very snotty, and as a mod, I don't think you should be using this space like that. You want responses, after you have just reduced feelings. Nice. A real conversation about objectification can't start by telling people they are wrong.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:06 PM   #3
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I don't see it as objectification. Given the context of the thread, though ... it seemed pretty clearly inappropriate to me. It felt like a huge slap in the face, actually. The thread was started for an unspoken but plainly obvious purpose. Admiring each other's T&A wasn't one of them. And my take on it was that it was a cleverly double-edged taunt -- as in, anyone who doesn't see the "humor" in it must therefore lack a sense of humor.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:26 PM   #4
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I guess I don't enjoy having valid concerns reduced to "hoopla". When I feel that a question of this nature is asked in seriousness, I'm happy to answer. In the meantime, I guess I'll just take my oversensitive self to another part of the website.

Who'd have thought it, though, that women would feel unsupported on the BBW Board. Huh. Crazy times.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:32 PM   #5
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In Olwen's defense, that thread was my tipping point into not being a BBW mod anymore, so 'hoopla' may have been just the right word.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:37 PM   #6
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I found myself being objectified one night when I went to a pub with a friend, and men were calling out " Show us yer tits" It was just awful. I felt like a slab of meat.

I agree that objectification is usually from somebody trying to gain sexual or economic advantage.

It does not feel good.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:43 PM   #7
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In Olwen's defense, that thread was my tipping point into not being a BBW mod anymore, so 'hoopla' may have been just the right word.
I musta missed a lot of "hoopla" then, because all I saw was people respectfully wording their response to what seemed to be a taunt. That's why I asked the question I did --because I was unsure how to take it. Unfortunately, what I got in response was instead a lecture. How refreshing.

I guess I just see women as so much more than just pieces parts or fat. I see us as living, breathing, thinking, feeling, passionate beings whose full womanhood should be celebrated. When someone says about a woman, "She has a great ass" she is reduced, however unintentionally, to a piece of meat. It's just not my thing. If it works for others, that's great. But I'm still going to express my feelings about such a comment, because I think it devalues us as a group. I expect such behavior on the Weight Board or the Paysite Board. But here? I guess I expected so much more from the women here (and isn't that an irony, given the thread title...)
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:33 PM   #8
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In Olwen's defense, that thread was my tipping point into not being a BBW mod anymore, so 'hoopla' may have been just the right word.
Butch, guess it was the right word...for you. Others are saying it's not...for them. How many times have we seen complaints that some people only come to a forum to deposit something maybe not so wonderful. Lots. It is just very disingenuous, no matter the ' explanations '.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:23 PM   #9
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I did not take the two posts on the lovely ladies thread as objectification, but it was very disappointing to see that it took that turn. I was enjoying the thread for it's original purpose, a celebration of the women who are a part of Dims (not their bodies).

Flip the coin, and imagine the men congratulating each other for their pecs and "packages", in a thread about the appreciation for men/FA's/BHM. Sure it may sound funny to some, and I do have a sense of humour, but it taints the spirit of it's true intention.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:34 PM   #10
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I don't believe I objected to anyone saying their piece about the posts in question. My actions aren't about people speaking up, but about a fundamental difference in how I see genders and bodies, and how many of the participants of this forum see those things. I felt it was in my best interest, as well as the best interest for this board, if I stepped away, since I can no longer match my own philosophies with the requirements of those who use it.

I feel bad about stepping down and leaving Olwen and Tina with more responsibilites, which is how I looked at Olwen's use of 'hoopla,' that it was directed at my response, not the responses of those in the OP.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:57 PM   #11
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I don't believe I objected to anyone saying their piece about the posts in question. My actions aren't about people speaking up, but about a fundamental difference in how I see genders and bodies, and how many of the participants of this forum see those things. I felt it was in my best interest, as well as the best interest for this board, if I stepped away, since I can no longer match my own philosophies with the requirements of those who use it.

I feel bad about stepping down and leaving Olwen and Tina with more responsibilites, which is how I looked at Olwen's use of 'hoopla,' that it was directed at my response, not the responses of those in the OP.
Ah. Okay. Got it. Thanks for 'splanation.

I think you're awesome, by the way. Just sayin'.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:00 PM   #12
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Ah. Okay. Got it. Thanks for 'splanation.

I think you're awesome, by the way. Just sayin'.
Thank you, that means a lot. I hope you know the feeling is mutual.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:23 PM   #13
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Look, it is not my intention to reduce anyone's concerns about how they see their bodies.

The reason I used the word hoopla is because it seemed to me to be the culmination of a lot of discord, all over the boards of late, not just here and yes, I had Butch in mind when I used that word too.

I started this thread in an effort to find out why any mention of women's sexuality seems to upset some of you so much. I'm frustrated by what seems to me to sometimes be an extreme point of view. So If my definition of objectification doesn't seem to mean what other people think it means, then I'd like to know just what it means? There has to be some kind of balance here.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:24 PM   #14
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I think AM and Cranky were just exchanging light hearted banter.

Maybe it belonged elsewhere other than that particular thread, but do we have to make such a federal case of it?
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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^^^ Is this a reply to what I posted to steely because if it is I didn't make a federal case out of it...I simply asked her if she thought it wouldn't happen,I figured it would and I really figured it would be sooner to tell you the truth..I expect no less then something like that on any of these forums...
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:23 AM   #16
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^^^ Is this a reply to what I posted to steely because if it is I didn't make a federal case out of it...I simply asked her if she thought it wouldn't happen,I figured it would and I really figured it would be sooner to tell you the truth..I expect no less then something like that on any of these forums...
I expect nothing less than some here making an issue out of absolutely everything.

It was nothing, just banter between two friends.
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:49 AM   #17
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The banter between friends is to be expected in all of these threads..It is the way of internet boards..Like I said I figured it would have happened sooner...I am surprised there hasn't been some sort of pic put in there as well...

I am not making an issue out of anything..I am just saying what I see..You are the one that seems to want to make an issue out of it..
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:20 AM   #18
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The banter between friends is to be expected in all of these threads..It is the way of internet boards..Like I said I figured it would have happened sooner...I am surprised there hasn't been some sort of pic put in there as well...

I am not making an issue out of anything..I am just saying what I see..You are the one that seems to want to make an issue out of it..
I am not referencing you in particular, just the tone that these forums have taken on in general.

Some things are worth fighting for, but making such a huge deal out of what was lighthearted exchange between mates is overkill.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:45 AM   #19
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Cranky and Ann Marie are very close and seems to me were just joking. It made me laugh. I don't get people being upset. ??
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:54 AM   #20
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Cranky and Ann Marie are very close and seems to me were just joking. It made me laugh. I don't get people being upset. ??
Well..because that seems to be the theme lately. There's no place for lighthearted anything.

It's not like two guys went into the thread making comments... that would be inappropriate.

It's unfortunate that we take things way too seriously these day. It's unfortunate that we take such issue with..everything.

I think this is why there isn't more participation on this board. Eh..those are my thoughts.
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:43 AM   #21
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Thank you, that means a lot. I hope you know the feeling is mutual.
Well I didn't... but now I do. Thank you!

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Look, it is not my intention to reduce anyone's concerns about how they see their bodies.

The reason I used the word hoopla is because it seemed to me to be the culmination of a lot of discord, all over the boards of late, not just here and yes, I had Butch in mind when I used that word too.
Ah, okay. See I guess I missed the other discord. I was only responding to what was said in the other thread. Period. I have no idea what inspired their comments, which is why I asked. It just seemed... discordant, I guess... with the spirit of the thread which is celebrating women as women, not body parts, something we see so much of on the other forums. I'm still not so sure I buy that the remarks were as innocent as they said, but... whatever. I have too much going on to pursue this discussion, nor can I address all the comments which are "piling on", other to say that each of us has hot buttons that may upset us and not other people. As women (!), I'd like to think that we could support each other's passions and issues, and not belittle them. Particularly in what was supposed to be a protected space.

But I guess not, eh?

Quote:
I started this thread in an effort to find out why any mention of women's sexuality seems to upset some of you so much. I'm frustrated by what seems to me to sometimes be an extreme point of view.
Seriously? You think this is about women's sexuality? Oh, Olwen, no no no. That is so very much not what this is about, and the fact that you think so means that either I've expressed myself poorly or you didn't read my previous posts on the subject, both of which are entirely possible.

I celebrate women's sexuality. Given the wide range of sexual experiences I've had, the idea that I'd be prudish about women's sexuality is funny. Do you know that on this very site I caught shit because of my sexual history, and one member even told me I was unfit to care for laboring women because of my experiences with other women? I was accused of all kinds of things, some beyond the pale, and was even given the moniker "Sirenslut" back in the day. *laugh*

So no, women's sexuality doesn't bother me at all. Quite the contrary: I love seeing my sisters getting their groove on. But what does bother me is watching women being reduced to body parts to be ogled and fondled, without taking into account the entire wonderfulness of that woman -- her thoughts, her feelings, her desires, her fantasies, her sexual needs. It's like reducing men to a dick or an ass, something I've spoken out against as well.

That, dear Olwen, is what I feel so strongly about. To me, it's perpetuating the same, tired old perception of a woman as an object of someone else's desire. That attitude, of a woman as an object (hence the term "objectification") is the very antithesis of celebrating her sexuality.

So now you know.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by olwen View Post
Given all the hoopla in the lovely ladies thread here on the BBW board, I'm honestly starting to wonder what exactly ojbectification is truly and why so many women here seem to see it everywhere.

I think objectification happens when someone is trying to get something out of you (whether sexual or economic) from you without respect or concern for you feelings or needs. You can be objectified whether you are aware of it or not, whether you agree to it or not (as the case with porn may be). You can be a willing victim or not. You can be objectified (as in a relationship) in a good way too.

But is there ever a gray area? Is it really objectification is no one is abused or taken advantage of for it?

And lastly as in the context of this forum I am interested in hearing what the participants here consider to be ojectification when it comes from men and when it comes from women, or is there just no difference to some and if so why?
Objectification to me means being stripped of your humanity or having your humanity completely ignored. It's being reduced to nothing more than an object for physical or visual satisfaction. A general observation or commentary on what is appealing doesn't usually strike me as objectifying. There's a fine line though. Sometimes I feel that the world's obsession with the private lives and appearance of celebrities is objectifying.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TraciJo67 View Post
I don't see it as objectification. Given the context of the thread, though ... it seemed pretty clearly inappropriate to me. It felt like a huge slap in the face, actually. The thread was started for an unspoken but plainly obvious purpose. Admiring each other's T&A wasn't one of them. And my take on it was that it was a cleverly double-edged taunt -- as in, anyone who doesn't see the "humor" in it must therefore lack a sense of humor.
Know what TraciJo? That bullshit was all my own fault.....didn't realize I had to spell it out to avoid true ignorance....thought my intent was quite clear.

Yeah, I took the whole thing as intentionally shitting all over the thread but next time I will make stricter "rules" in the OP. Matter of fact, I'm thinking I need to PM one of the mods now to change the OP to make it much clearer so that kind of "playfulness" doesn't happen again.
It was an important thread to me.

Thanks so effing much.
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Green Eyed Fairy View Post
Know what TraciJo? That bullshit was all my own fault.....didn't realize I had to spell it out to avoid true ignorance....thought my intent was quite clear.

Yeah, I took the whole thing as intentionally shitting all over the thread but next time I will make stricter "rules" in the OP. Matter of fact, I'm thinking I need to PM one of the mods now to change the OP to make it much clearer so that kind of "playfulness" doesn't happen again.
It was an important thread to me.

Thanks so effing much.
GEF, I didn't think that it was appropriate - on that, you and I agree. In strict terms of whether it was actual objectification (as I define the term, anyway), it didn't really meet that criteria. But I do understand your frustration, and I share it. Like I said, I was reading the thread and actually felt GOOD about something at Dims for once -- then to see those comments, when everywhere else it seems nothing but T&A and worship to the exclusion of all else, therein -- yeah. Unwelcome. I got your frustration. Believe me, I did.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:42 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by TraciJo67 View Post
GEF, I didn't think that it was appropriate - on that, you and I agree. In strict terms of whether it was actual objectification (as I define the term, anyway), it didn't really meet that criteria. But I do understand your frustration, and I share it. Like I said, I was reading the thread and actually felt GOOD about something at Dims for once -- then to see those comments, when everywhere else it seems nothing but T&A and worship to the exclusion of all else, therein -- yeah. Unwelcome. I got your frustration. Believe me, I did.
It wasn't about "objectification" at all, IMO. It was about mocking the women on the boards. What a wonderful place to choose and do that. Funny, I don't recall seeing anyone taking a dump in the men's appreciation thread.


ETA: One of the mods is going to change the OP for me.
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