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Old 03-25-2010, 09:21 PM   #1
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Default Welcome to your new health care plan ...

Wanna see what our “ELECTED OFFICIALS” just rammed down our throats? Check it out:

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

... and, And, AND ... pre-existing conditions are NOT covered -- it is nowhere in the bill! Not until at LEAST 2014 and even that is a maybe. If anyone disagrees, please provide the link to where it is mentioned that pre-existing conditions will be covered.

Last edited by Gomes; 03-25-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:25 PM   #2
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Here:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...txt.pdf#page=1

It's the entire Law...all 906 pages....Start Reading...you'll be further ahead then the Congress by Breakfast...cause they sure as hell haven't fully read it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:31 PM   #3
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Gomes, mind crossreferencing your page numbers with those in the H.R. 3590 document provided above?

Let's be on the same playing field here; ten bucks says the language is arguable anyway.

Example: on page 58, I don't see any mention of a national identification card. I do, however, see this:
Quote:
PART II—CONSUMER CHOICES AND INSURANCE COMPETITION THROUGH HEALTH BENEFIT EXCHANGES
SEC. 1311. AFFORDABLE CHOICES OF HEALTH BENEFIT PLANS.(d) REQUIREMENTS.—
(4) FUNCTIONS.—An Exchange shall, at a minimum—
(C) maintain an Internet website through which
enrollees and prospective enrollees of qualified health plans
may obtain standardized comparative information on such
plans;

Hey, who elected her?

AND FURTHERMORE: http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/...bill.html#more
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Last edited by Wagimawr; 03-25-2010 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:48 PM   #4
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I thought the pre-existing condition thing went into effect immediately for children?

Also I predict that many more doctors will go cash only to avoid government interference.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:53 PM   #5
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Y'know, reading this congressional language is like reading Latin or something; it's rather ridiculous.

Who's going to tack 95 theses up on the door of the White House, one of them being "USE THE COMMON PEOPLE'S LANGUAGE, you assholes"?
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomes View Post
Wanna see what our “ELECTED OFFICIALS” just rammed down our throats? Check it out:


I like how you ask us to provide a link proving you wrong... and give no evidence of your own to support your claims.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:57 PM   #7
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So basically:
http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/...bill.html#more
There's the original list of conservative concerns with liberal rebuttals, and
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3590:
There's the link to the bill itself.

Let's get to it, Dimensions!
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomes View Post
• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
What "gov option" would that be? The one that wasn't in the bill at all?
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyjez View Post
What "gov option" would that be? The one that wasn't in the bill at all?
Maybe you should read the actual bill. From the government's own website ...
Quote:
IN GENERAL.—The Secretary of Health and
24 Human Services (in this section referred to as the ‘‘Sec25
retary’’) shall establish a temporary national high-risk
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:56 Oct 30, 2009 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00016 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3962.IH H3962 rmajette on DSK29S0YB1PROD with BILLS
17
•HR 3962 IH
1 pool program (in this section referred to as the ‘‘program’’) to provide health benefits to eligible individuals
3 during the period beginning on January 1, 2010, and, sub4
ject to subsection (h)(3)(B), ending on the date on which
5 the Health Insurance Exchange is established
... The Government is going to ESTABLISH a health care program -- THAT Government option.

Last edited by Gomes; 03-30-2010 at 12:45 PM. Reason: corrected formatting
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post


I like how you ask us to provide a link proving you wrong... and give no evidence of your own to support your claims.
Are you kidding Beej? He provided another unattributed wall of text with no commentary beyond "SEE, SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!111!!!!"

That's all the proof I need.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:13 PM   #11
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Do you know what an “Easter Egg” is? In reference to legislation it is a provision of a law that is unrealized when the law is enacted. The bonuses for AIG that were in the Stimulus Bill is an example.

Is this another example?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...enders-viagra/
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Do you know what an “Easter Egg” is? In reference to legislation it is a provision of a law that is unrealized when the law is enacted. The bonuses for AIG that were in the Stimulus Bill is an example.

Is this another example?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...enders-viagra/
Oh no someone who got caught having sex with his high school girlfriend 30 years ago might get free Viagra -- better through the panic button and bring the health care system to a stop.

Really -- if people are going to be this paranoid we really got to get rid of that "home of the brave" phrase.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:25 PM   #13
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The real question is what else will come to light in the next several weeks? SURPRISE!!
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
Oh no someone who got caught having sex with his high school girlfriend 30 years ago might get free Viagra -- better through the panic button and bring the health care system to a stop.

Really -- if people are going to be this paranoid we really got to get rid of that "home of the brave" phrase.
What about land of the free -- how "free" are we when we are being FORCED to pay for this stuff so that others can get it with no cost to them?
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:56 AM   #15
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Health care is, arguably, already rationed.

Those with good health insurance plans have wellness visits and preventive care covered. Their treatment for an ear infection costs not too much. They have annual checkups in which the doctor sees a potential problem and suggests a lifestyle change and monitoring the numbers, therefore they are less likely to develop a chronic (and expensive) condition.

Those with cr**py health insurance plans see the doctor only when something is wrong. Often it is stuff that might have been caught earlier and treated when minor.

Those with no health insurance have the Emergency Department as their primary care physician. The high costs that those with insurance pay help subsidize the health care provided to uninsured people.

I thank the poster who provided the link to the bill. I will try to read it before making any more sweeping statements.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:36 PM   #16
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My biggest problems with Barack Hussein Obama taking over healthcare is American taxpayers footing the bill for criminal aliens, baby-killing, and losers who won't work. It's going to be a nightmare. You think government involvement in ANYTHING is good, just watch.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:07 PM   #17
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The senate postponed debate on medicare cuts that are supposed to take place to fund over half of Osamacare, if those cuts aren't made that will leave 500 billion dollars unfunded.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
The real question is what else will come to light in the next several weeks? SURPRISE!!
This story is from the New York Times not Fox News. The NYT is considered a very liberal paper friendly to “progressive” politicians and Democrats. This sounds like an Oops moment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/us...th.html?ref=us

First there was that AIG fiasco in the Stimulus Bill because no one read the bill. Now another mistake because Congress didn't know what they were voting on. The word incompetent comes to mind.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
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The senate postponed debate on medicare cuts that are supposed to take place to fund over half of Osamacare, if those cuts aren't made that will leave 500 billion dollars unfunded.
Considering the voting turnout among seniors is this really a surprise? Obama has all ready broken too many promises. The promise that Health Care Reform would not add to the nation's debt does not bother him. It is a problem for someone else to worry about.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:53 AM   #20
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screw the gov't health care plan. If I need care, I'll pay my own way
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannabeVERYfat View Post
screw the gov't health care plan. If I need care, I'll pay my own way
Until you can't. The idea is to force you into the health care system. That's why there is the individual mandate with fines. I believe there is a rule that doctors who take Medicare money can't have “cash” patients???
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:07 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IwannabeVERYfat View Post
screw the gov't health care plan. If I need care, I'll pay my own way
Oh, okay. So you can afford a $1000 ER bill (plus the cost of the doctor, which is billed separately) for an upper respiratory infection and pneumonia? (It'd be much more if you actually got admitted). You could afford routine yearly blood work that can cost hundreds of dollars, higher if you need extra testing or radiology? Pharmaceuticals which can cost many hundreds of dollars per month? What about if you got really sick and needed hospitalization? DO you know what inpatient hospitalization costs? No? Didn't think so.

People with your attitude are usually either a) young, or b) have never been sick, or else they really just have no idea what medicine costs these days. Once you've been either, you'll understand that unless you have some ginormous piggy bank or a rich uncle, "just paying" for health care if you're sick is way way way out of your price range. There's a reason people lose their homes from illness. It's because health care in this country is expensive.

Now I don't agree with the mandate, but I also have a huge problem with ignorance. Since your goal seems to be to get very fat, then you may well be running the risk of diseases associated with being fat. Can you pay for those out of your own pocket? What if you become too ill or immobile to work? What then? Who will pay your medical bills then?
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bigmac View Post

Really -- if people are going to be this paranoid we really got to get rid of that "home of the brave" phrase.
I thought we got rid of that phrase when they stopped allowing us to say merry christmas?
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:30 PM   #24
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I find this irrelivent, since ACORN no longer exists!!!!!
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by HappyFatChick View Post
My biggest problems with Barack Hussein Obama taking over healthcare is American taxpayers footing the bill for criminal aliens, baby-killing, and losers who won't work. It's going to be a nightmare. You think government involvement in ANYTHING is good, just watch.
Where is this coming from? Citations please, since NO ALIENS, illegal or extra-terrestrial, will be covered!!!!!!!!!
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