At more and more companies, smokers need not apply

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 10:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/08/us.smoker.jobs/

What bothers me about the whole smoking thing is that many people scream about personal freedoms and the like but the same people want to attack those who smoke.

Christov · 07-12-2010, 11:01 AM

Inversely though, smoking causes all kinds of nasty health issues and second hand smoking can be just as worse. In fact, cigarette smoke that gets caught in the fibres of clothes can be harmful too. I don’t really understand the logic behind not hiring smokers though. Perhaps the employers aren’t keen on having workers getting irritable without cigarette breaks or maybe they just don’t want to have to build shelters for smokers on the exterior of the workplace?

Either way, it just seems like stupid cost cutting/productivity measures to me.

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christov

Inversely though, smoking causes all kinds of nasty health issues and second hand smoking can be just as worse. In fact, cigarette smoke that gets caught in the fibres of clothes can be harmful too. I don’t really understand the logic behind not hiring smokers though. Perhaps the employers aren’t keen on having workers getting irritable without cigarette breaks or maybe they just don’t want to have to build shelters for smokers on the exterior of the workplace?

Either way, it just seems like stupid cost cutting/productivity measures to me.

Damn useless rep system. Instead, I will give you this taco Chris for a great posting.

mercy · 07-12-2010, 12:33 PM

To be fair, part of it is about smokers' attitudes. When they banned smoking in public indoor places in the UK, most smokers were in uproar. I'm a smoker myself and I couldn't give a shit. It's my decision to smoke, but I don't want to force the smell/smoke/health problems associated with smoking on my friends. It's no big deal to go outside when you want a cigarette, in fact it's kind of nice to have an excuse to go outside sometimes.

As for smoking breaks at work, it's not a black and white issue. I used to take smoke breaks in my job and nobody had a problem with it. Then a memo came round specifying that people can only smoke in their lunch breaks. In theory, I'm fine with that. On the other hand, I don't drink tea or coffee and people who do drink tea and coffee probably spend about 15 minutes a day going back and forth to the kitchen. I don't stand around chatting either, but I know plenty of workers who waste 30 minutes a day doing that. So I kind of resent being told I can't have a 5 minute smoke break, not because I get irritable without it, but because it does seem like there's a double standard.

Twenty years ago, people used to have designated 10 minute breaks in the morning and the afternoon where they could go get a coffee, chat to their mates or have a cigarette. That disappeared when businesses decided it was too much of a drain on productivity and decided to make lunch breaks longer instead, but the problem with that is hardly anybody uses their full hour for their lunchbreak. It doesn't take an hour to eat a sandwich and have a cup of tea, so people go back to work, sacrifice the rest of their break and don't get a chance to take the time back later.

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 12:43 PM

Bravo! Well done to these hospitals, for wanting to follow through with being the gatekeepers of health.

Smoking kills. It is that simply really.

Smoking effects others, and not just the smoker.

Hospitals have a duty of care to it's non smoking patients, namely we should not have to wade through an ocean of smokers as we try to walk in the front door of the hospital.

Smoking patients they cannot really control, but they can try to reduce the smokers in their profesional ranks.

CastingPearls · 07-12-2010, 12:43 PM

The last company I worked for told its employees point blank that they got insurance incentives (better rates) for discouraging smoking (and obesity) so they phased out breaks for EVERYONE (penalizing smokers and non-smokers alike) over a period of a few months until it was down to one 10 minute break a day and a 45 minute lunch (where smokers would stand at a distance from the building because smoking near the entrance was forbidden.)

As far as the obesity part they offered a 10% discount on a health club membership and organized break-time walks on company property.

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

Bravo! Well done to these hospitals, for wanting to follow through with being the gatekeepers of health.

Smoking kills. It is that simply really.

it should not have a bearing whether or not one is hired.

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGabriel

it should not have a bearing whether or not one is hired.

Absolutely it should. Hospitals are a place where health is promoted and restored.

Condoning smoking flies in the face of the overwhelming evidence that it is an addictive, deadly habit.

mercy · 07-12-2010, 01:16 PM

You know if I wanted to play devil's advocate and really create a storm here, I could point out that obesity kills too...

cinnamitch · 07-12-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercy

You know if I wanted to play devil's advocate and really create a storm here, I could point out that obesity kills too...

Amen. No disagreement from me. I worked in healthcare for over 20 years. You have to be honest. Obesity can be as bad or worse than smoking. Some people are lucky and can have no health problem with either but it is something that is a fact nonetheless.

HottiMegan · 07-12-2010, 01:35 PM

My husband works at a hospital. There is no smoking allowed even in the parking lot for employees. (and it's a big campus) There are also penalties for smokers for the deductible in health insurance.

While i think discrimination is wrong the Libertarian in me says it's the company's choice who they hire and who they don't even if it is a stupid reason to not hire someone.

There are no legal protections for smokers. (or fat people for that matter) I think smoking is a bad thing being that it inflicts nasty side affects on other people. If it was centralized wholly to the person smoking, i don't think it would be so controversial.

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

Absolutely it should. Hospitals are a place where health is promoted and restored.

Condoning smoking flies in the face of the overwhelming evidence that it is an addictive, deadly habit.

It's not as if they'll smoke right in front of the patients or inside the hospital itself. What about sexual preferences? Would that play a role in hiring? Or if a doctor or nurse is overweight?

mercy · 07-12-2010, 01:50 PM

I agree that smokers shouldn't be forcing others to breathe in their smoke. Designated smoking areas should be kept well away from entrances and anyone who smokes in front of children is stupid and selfish. But if someone smokes in the privacy of their own bedroom, in an outdoor place away from others or in the company of other smokers, it's nobody else's business.

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGabriel

It's not as if they'll smoke right in front of the patients or inside the hospital itself. What about sexual preferences? Would that play a role in hiring? Or if a doctor or nurse is overweight?

I was just waiting for you to trot that argument out.

We are discussing smoking here, as per your thread. Keep on topic.

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

I was just waiting for you to trot that argument out.

We are discussing smoking here, as per your thread. Keep on topic.

Pardon me? Be civil, please.

I'm talking about people's jobs as well. You cannot dictate what one can or can't say here. Unless you're a mod, people will bring in anything they see fit. Much like how Mercy and Cindy has done. Last time I checked, no one was penalized for straying off topic in a minor way.

But moving along, as I said... It's not as if the hospital are blowing smoke in the patients' faces. In a sense it's similar to the case not that long ago when a Wal-Mart (or Costco?) employee was fired for smoking dope in his house. Medicinal dope by the way. It helped him cope with his pain and didn't affect his performances at work and interaction with co-workers and customers.

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGabriel

Pardon me? Be civil, please.

I'm talking about people's jobs as well. You can't dictate what one can or can't say here. Unless you're a mod, people will bring in anything they see fit. Much like how Mercy and Cindy has done.

If they value their jobs they have to conform to what is required.

If they wish to smoke they could seek employment in a workplace that has no issue with smoking, which in 2010 is zero.

You are discussing smoking in this thread, thus we are responding to this thread as it relates to smoking.

calauria · 07-12-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercy

You know if I wanted to play devil's advocate and really create a storm here, I could point out that obesity kills too...

I know, I was gonna do that, too, but..........well....you know......

lol

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

If they value their jobs they have to conform to what is required.

If they wish to smoke they could seek employment in a workplace that has no issue with smoking, which in 2010 is zero.

You are discussing smoking in this thread, thus we are responding to this thread as it relates to smoking.

I didn't see you respond to Mercy's posting or Cinnamitch's followup. If a doctor or nurse smokes at home only or in their car, they should not be turned away from gainful employment.

calauria · 07-12-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercy

I agree that smokers shouldn't be forcing others to breathe in their smoke. Designated smoking areas should be kept well away from entrances and anyone who smokes in front of children is stupid and selfish. But if someone smokes in the privacy of their own bedroom, in an outdoor place away from others or in the company of other smokers, it's nobody else's business.

I agree with this!!

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGabriel

I didn't see you respond to Mercy's posting or Cinnamitch's followup. If a doctor or nurse smokes at home only or in their car, they should not be turned away from gainful employment.

It is only going to get harder for smokers as the years go on. You may want to prepare for that.

Excuses, excuses. Denial of reality.

Have you seen a person die from lung cancer? It is like they are drowning internally. I have seen it. It is horrific.

NYCGabriel · 07-12-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

It is only going to get harder for smokers as the years go on. You may want to prepare for that.

Excuses, excuses. Denial of reality.

Have you seen a person die from lung cancer? It is like they are drowning internally. I have seen it. It is horrific.

yes I have seen it. my godfather died from in 2008. you're still avoiding my comments as well as those of Mercy and Cinnamitch.

if someone smokes in their home only or in their car, why should they be turned away from work

Shosh · 07-12-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGabriel

yes I have seen it. my godfather died from in 2008. you're still avoiding my comments as well as those of Mercy and Cinnamitch.

if someone smokes in their home only or in their car, why should they be turned away from work

Have you smelt smoke on a person? Um you can still smell it regardless of where you smoke. It is so unpleasant.

Hospital staff often smoke outside of the exclusion zone of the hospital and come back in smelling of it.

Why should hospital patients have to be subjected to that unpleasant smell? Answer they should not have to be.

Hospitals are seeking employees that conform to the ethos of their organization, namely to heal and do no harm.

Smoking Kills.

My neighbor who smokes often invites me to come to his home, and I just cannot, because the smell of stale cigarette smoke is horrible.

I simply cannot tolerate it.

mercy · 07-12-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosh

Have you smelt smoke on a person? Um you can still smell it regardless of where you smoke. It is so unpleasant.

So is body odour. So is cheap perfume. So is bad cologne and so is garlic breath. People smell sometimes. Get over it.

Dr. Feelgood · 07-12-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercy

You know if I wanted to play devil's advocate and really create a storm here, I could point out that obesity kills too...

[quote=calauria;1501418]I know, I was gonna do that, too, but..........well....you know......QUOTE]

But the point is that smoking apparently kills other people, too: it's kind of like being a suicide bomber, only more gradual.

mercy · 07-12-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Feelgood

But the point is that smoking apparently kills other people, too: it's kind of like being a suicide bomber, only more gradual.

Only if you smoke in front of non-smokers.

07-12-2010, 10:47 AM	#1
NYCGabriel Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Flushing, NYC Posts: 794	At more and more companies, smokers need not apply http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/07/08/us.smoker.jobs/ What bothers me about the whole smoking thing is that many people scream about personal freedoms and the like but the same people want to attack those who smoke.

07-12-2010, 12:43 PM	#5
Shosh Susannah Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10,937	Bravo! Well done to these hospitals, for wanting to follow through with being the gatekeepers of health. Smoking kills. It is that simply really. Smoking effects others, and not just the smoker. Hospitals have a duty of care to it's non smoking patients, namely we should not have to wade through an ocean of smokers as we try to walk in the front door of the hospital. Smoking patients they cannot really control, but they can try to reduce the smokers in their profesional ranks. Last edited by Shosh : 07-12-2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Add on.

07-12-2010, 12:43 PM	#6
CastingPearls Hello Sweetie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 14,626	The last company I worked for told its employees point blank that they got insurance incentives (better rates) for discouraging smoking (and obesity) so they phased out breaks for EVERYONE (penalizing smokers and non-smokers alike) over a period of a few months until it was down to one 10 minute break a day and a 45 minute lunch (where smokers would stand at a distance from the building because smoking near the entrance was forbidden.) As far as the obesity part they offered a 10% discount on a health club membership and organized break-time walks on company property. __________________ http://castingpearls-blowingbubbles.blogspot.com/ You are that luminosity. You are that clear light. ~ Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche ~ People throw rocks at things that shine.

07-12-2010, 01:35 PM	#11
HottiMegan I'm a fat geek! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 8,589	My husband works at a hospital. There is no smoking allowed even in the parking lot for employees. (and it's a big campus) There are also penalties for smokers for the deductible in health insurance. While i think discrimination is wrong the Libertarian in me says it's the company's choice who they hire and who they don't even if it is a stupid reason to not hire someone. There are no legal protections for smokers. (or fat people for that matter) I think smoking is a bad thing being that it inflicts nasty side affects on other people. If it was centralized wholly to the person smoking, i don't think it would be so controversial. __________________ I may look lazy, but on a molecular level I'm quite busy!

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07-12-2010, 11:01 AM	#2
Christov On Timeout Join Date: May 2010 Location: Blighty. Posts: 1,883	Inversely though, smoking causes all kinds of nasty health issues and second hand smoking can be just as worse. In fact, cigarette smoke that gets caught in the fibres of clothes can be harmful too. I don’t really understand the logic behind not hiring smokers though. Perhaps the employers aren’t keen on having workers getting irritable without cigarette breaks or maybe they just don’t want to have to build shelters for smokers on the exterior of the workplace? Either way, it just seems like stupid cost cutting/productivity measures to me.

07-12-2010, 12:33 PM	#4
mercy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK Posts: 297	To be fair, part of it is about smokers' attitudes. When they banned smoking in public indoor places in the UK, most smokers were in uproar. I'm a smoker myself and I couldn't give a shit. It's my decision to smoke, but I don't want to force the smell/smoke/health problems associated with smoking on my friends. It's no big deal to go outside when you want a cigarette, in fact it's kind of nice to have an excuse to go outside sometimes. As for smoking breaks at work, it's not a black and white issue. I used to take smoke breaks in my job and nobody had a problem with it. Then a memo came round specifying that people can only smoke in their lunch breaks. In theory, I'm fine with that. On the other hand, I don't drink tea or coffee and people who do drink tea and coffee probably spend about 15 minutes a day going back and forth to the kitchen. I don't stand around chatting either, but I know plenty of workers who waste 30 minutes a day doing that. So I kind of resent being told I can't have a 5 minute smoke break, not because I get irritable without it, but because it does seem like there's a double standard. Twenty years ago, people used to have designated 10 minute breaks in the morning and the afternoon where they could go get a coffee, chat to their mates or have a cigarette. That disappeared when businesses decided it was too much of a drain on productivity and decided to make lunch breaks longer instead, but the problem with that is hardly anybody uses their full hour for their lunchbreak. It doesn't take an hour to eat a sandwich and have a cup of tea, so people go back to work, sacrifice the rest of their break and don't get a chance to take the time back later.

07-12-2010, 01:16 PM	#9
mercy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK Posts: 297	You know if I wanted to play devil's advocate and really create a storm here, I could point out that obesity kills too...

07-12-2010, 01:50 PM	#13
mercy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK Posts: 297	I agree that smokers shouldn't be forcing others to breathe in their smoke. Designated smoking areas should be kept well away from entrances and anyone who smokes in front of children is stupid and selfish. But if someone smokes in the privacy of their own bedroom, in an outdoor place away from others or in the company of other smokers, it's nobody else's business.