Using deception in religion

FitChick · 05-24-2006, 05:48 AM

A few weeks ago, there was a thread (I can't find it now) that discussed religion and I brought up how some cults (such as "Jews for Jesus") use deception and subterfuge to try to convert their target groups.

Here is an article exposing one such attempt:

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/...ach-05-18.html

Sadly, this deceptive practice is given sanction in the Christian Bible (1 Cor. 9:20):

KJV: And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

jack · 05-24-2006, 10:03 AM

Every religion proselytizes. How is this any more sad than any other example of it? Sure, I think it was not in good taste and not very wise. I don't support them doing it. I just don't see why this particular instance is any other unwise attempt to proselytize.

Tina · 05-24-2006, 10:19 AM

Who cares?

I just cannot work up any care for the subjects you bring up. They will either be bashing women, bashing feminism, bashing liberals, crowing about judaism, or any other number of subjects intended to put someone, or a group of people, down, and start trouble, rather than have a true discussion.

*yawn*

TraciJo67 · 05-24-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tina

Who cares?

I just cannot work up any care for the subjects you bring up. They will either be bashing women, bashing feminism, bashing liberals, crowing about judaism, or any other number of subjects intended to put someone, or a group of people, down, and start trouble, rather than have a true discussion.

*yawn*

Y'know, sometimes I just randomly think about that shower scene in the movie "Carrie", when she's being pelted with various items intended for sanitary use.

No particular reason. I just think of it, every now & then.

SamanthaNY · 05-24-2006, 11:11 AM

I swear, I'm gonna break a nail or five repping the bejeezus outta people today.

There. That's my religious comment

.

mossystate · 05-24-2006, 11:30 AM

[quote=TraciJo67]pelted with various items intended for sanitary use.

Oh...you are too dainty!!!!...

Bloodsoppers!!!!!!!!

and yes...my post DOES have something to do with religion..stigmata..*ducks..just in case*

FitChick · 05-24-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack

Every religion proselytizes. How is this any more sad than any other example of it? Sure, I think it was not in good taste and not very wise. I don't support them doing it. I just don't see why this particular instance is any other unwise attempt to proselytize.

Actually, every religion does not proselytize, only Christianity and Islam do, along with some minority religious groups. Judaism does not proselytize.

My point was not that these Christians are proselytizing Jews, but that they are using heavy deception to do it. Why don't they just come out and say, "We are Christians,this is what we believe, and we'd like to explain why we think you should leave your religion and join ours"?

Jes · 05-24-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitChick

Actually, every religion does not proselytize, only Christianity and Islam do, along with some minority religious groups. Judaism does not proselytize.

My point was not that these Christians are proselytizing Jews, but that they are using heavy deception to do it. Why don't they just come out and say, "We are Christians,this is what we believe, and we'd like to explain why we think you should leave your religion and join ours"?

I don't know, but I totally think you should look into it. And then write a big long diatribe about it. And post it here.

Sandie_Zitkus · 05-24-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jes

I don't know, but I totally think you should look into it. And then write a big long diatribe about it. And post it here.

PANTS

.......

gypsy · 05-24-2006, 12:02 PM

Pagans also do not proselytize. We believe people who need the path are sent to us. And we really don't like it when people try to do it to us.

FitChick · 05-24-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy

Pagans also do not proselytize. We believe people who need the path are sent to us. And we really don't like it when people try to do it to us.

That's true, I included you guys when I said "other minority religions" also don't proselytize.

How would you personally feel if some people came up to members of Pagan religions, and posed AS Pagans, used your terminology/symbols/beliefs which you hold sacred, and used deception to try to convert you to Christianity? That's the only point I was making. Try to convert others all you want--its a free country--but use honesty in doing so. Admit who you really are and what you are really all about, upfront.

SamanthaNY · 05-24-2006, 12:22 PM

This is ridiculous.

Just like the men who fear that roving bands of silly homosexuals are roaming the streets trying to "turn them gay".

gypsy · 05-24-2006, 12:24 PM

Dammit Sam, don't make light of that. I had a friend who that happened to. He was perfectly heterosexual one day...then...boom. The Gay Crusades happened.

I still lay awake crying at night.

Donna · 05-24-2006, 12:26 PM

At least it wasn't.......*dramatic pause*.....the SPANISH INQUISITION!

gypsy · 05-24-2006, 12:26 PM

Noooooooobody Expects The Spanish Inquisition!!!!

SamanthaNY · 05-24-2006, 12:29 PM

And those Spanish gays... they're the worst!

So flouncy... and

Inquisitive

Jes · 05-24-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy

Dammit Sam, don't make light of that. I had a friend who that happened to. He was perfectly heterosexual one day...then...boom. The Gay Crusades happened.

I still lay awake crying at night.

Best Onion story ever:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34118

gypsy · 05-24-2006, 12:38 PM

OMG...I think those are the guys that attacked my friend!

The Roving Band of Homosexual C*ck Suckers!

loves2laugh · 05-24-2006, 12:53 PM

i studied with jews for Jesus and they are not a cult. they are a group of jews who accept that Jesus is the Messiah.
i dont know about islam but christianity teaches that although we are not responsible for the salvations of others- and i am speaking from the christian perspective- we are told in the Holy Word that we are responsible for the information on Jesus to be made known to the world- to the jew first then the gentile. unfortunately a lot of christians get abusive and for that i apologize, we need the prayers of each other to do God's Will properly. being forced or manipulated into any belief system is not Godly in any way. i wish i could blame the devil, but it is just human nature to have to be right and force people to believe the same way.

anyway that is my 2 denarii

FitChick · 05-24-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamanthaNY

This is ridiculous.

Just like the men who fear that roving bands of silly homosexuals are roaming the streets trying to "turn them gay".

Missionaries often try to target children, which is the primary concern of the community.

FitChick · 05-24-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loves2laugh

i studied with jews for Jesus and they are not a cult. they are a group of jews who accept that Jesus is the Messiah.
i dont know about islam but christianity teaches that although we are not responsible for the salvations of others- and i am speaking from the christian perspective- we are told in the Holy Word that we are responsible for the information on Jesus to be made known to the world- to the jew first then the gentile. unfortunately a lot of christians get abusive and for that i apologize, we need the prayers of each other to do God's Will properly. being forced or manipulated into any belief system is not Godly in any way. i wish i could blame the devil, but it is just human nature to have to be right and force people to believe the same way.

anyway that is my 2 denarii

May I ask you something? If J4J is not a cult, then why do they use sleep and food deprivation in training their missionaries?

And why do many Christians who have left that organization feel the need to expose them? http://www.exjewsforjesus.org

loves2laugh · 05-24-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitChick

May I ask you something? If J4J is not a cult, then why do they use sleep and food deprivation in training their missionaries?

And why do many Christians who have left that organization feel the need to expose them? http://www.exjewsforjesus.org

the stories on that website are horrible and abusive and should be exposed-but they do not justify calling jews for Jesus a cult- just an organization with screwed up leadership.
as far as sleep and food deprivation- i have never heard anything like that and that certainly wasnt my experience with them.

Tina · 05-24-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FitChick

May I ask you something? If J4J is not a cult, then why do they use sleep and food deprivation in training their missionaries?

And why do many Christians who have left that organization feel the need to expose them? http://www.exjewsforjesus.org

"Many" people who have left every religion feel the need to expose it and have created web pages about it. Every single one. I swear, if there's a mangy website out there regarding politics or religion, you have it bookmarked.

CurvaceousBBWLover · 05-24-2006, 07:49 PM

There is no rhyme or reason for this. While I am in favor of converting nonbelievers to the Christian religion, I do not like the way some Christians treat Jews. I am ashamed at the behavior of some of my co-religionists. After all, Jesus was Jewish. Anti-semitism does not make sense!

05-24-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnaalicious

At least it wasn't.......*dramatic pause*.....the SPANISH INQUISITION!

I heard rumors that Popeye was a victim of the Spinach Inquisition.

05-24-2006, 05:48 AM	#1
FitChick Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,510	Using deception in religion A few weeks ago, there was a thread (I can't find it now) that discussed religion and I brought up how some cults (such as "Jews for Jesus") use deception and subterfuge to try to convert their target groups. Here is an article exposing one such attempt: http://www.recordonline.com/archive/...ach-05-18.html Sadly, this deceptive practice is given sanction in the Christian Bible (1 Cor. 9:20): KJV: And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

05-24-2006, 10:19 AM	#3
Tina Di's claimed me. :) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: location, location. Posts: 20,592	Who cares? I just cannot work up any care for the subjects you bring up. They will either be bashing women, bashing feminism, bashing liberals, crowing about judaism, or any other number of subjects intended to put someone, or a group of people, down, and start trouble, rather than have a true discussion. yawn __________________ "It is possible to believe in something and still fail to live up to it." -- Wilson, House M.D. "I'm really tired of a fat woman's sexuality being just another fat joke." -- Felicia/Supero "Sookie! I am so over Sookie and her precious fairy vagina and her unbelievably stupid name! Fuck Sookie!" -- Pam Last edited by Tina : 05-24-2006 at 10:23 AM.

05-24-2006, 12:02 PM	#10
gypsy gone Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 828	Pagans also do not proselytize. We believe people who need the path are sent to us. And we really don't like it when people try to do it to us. __________________ When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

05-24-2006, 12:24 PM	#13
gypsy gone Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 828	Dammit Sam, don't make light of that. I had a friend who that happened to. He was perfectly heterosexual one day...then...boom. The Gay Crusades happened. I still lay awake crying at night. __________________ When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

05-24-2006, 12:26 PM	#14
Donna You can't be serious... Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in the now Posts: 2,476	At least it wasn't.......dramatic pause.....the SPANISH INQUISITION! __________________

05-24-2006, 10:03 AM	#2
jack Sylvester Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Trapped in a closet Posts: 419	Every religion proselytizes. How is this any more sad than any other example of it? Sure, I think it was not in good taste and not very wise. I don't support them doing it. I just don't see why this particular instance is any other unwise attempt to proselytize.

05-24-2006, 11:11 AM	#5
SamanthaNY ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀ Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,739	I swear, I'm gonna break a nail or five repping the bejeezus outta people today. There. That's my religious comment .

05-24-2006, 11:30 AM	#6
mossystate flicks a booger on conrad Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13,127	[quote=TraciJo67]pelted with various items intended for sanitary use. Oh...you are too dainty!!!!... Bloodsoppers!!!!!!!! and yes...my post DOES have something to do with religion..stigmata..ducks..just in case

05-24-2006, 12:22 PM	#12
SamanthaNY ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀ Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,739	This is ridiculous. Just like the men who fear that roving bands of silly homosexuals are roaming the streets trying to "turn them gay".

05-24-2006, 12:29 PM	#16
SamanthaNY ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀ Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,739	And those Spanish gays... they're the worst! So flouncy... and Inquisitive

05-24-2006, 12:38 PM	#18
gypsy gone Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 828	OMG...I think those are the guys that attacked my friend! The Roving Band of Homosexual C*ck Suckers! __________________ When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

05-24-2006, 12:53 PM	#19
loves2laugh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 301	i studied with jews for Jesus and they are not a cult. they are a group of jews who accept that Jesus is the Messiah. i dont know about islam but christianity teaches that although we are not responsible for the salvations of others- and i am speaking from the christian perspective- we are told in the Holy Word that we are responsible for the information on Jesus to be made known to the world- to the jew first then the gentile. unfortunately a lot of christians get abusive and for that i apologize, we need the prayers of each other to do God's Will properly. being forced or manipulated into any belief system is not Godly in any way. i wish i could blame the devil, but it is just human nature to have to be right and force people to believe the same way. anyway that is my 2 denarii __________________ www.myspace.com/loveslaughing

05-24-2006, 07:49 PM	#24
CurvaceousBBWLover Sexy Wordsmith Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Beyond the thrice ninth land in the thrice tenth kingdom Posts: 2,626	There is no rhyme or reason for this. While I am in favor of converting nonbelievers to the Christian religion, I do not like the way some Christians treat Jews. I am ashamed at the behavior of some of my co-religionists. After all, Jesus was Jewish. Anti-semitism does not make sense! __________________ "A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."--Mohandas Ghandi

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