FA and fat people -- the potential perfect match

[Webmaster]

Bill Fabrey, the man who founded NAAFA (which then stood for National Association to Aid Fat Americans) in 1969 often told of the first meetings of the organization in Manhattan. He described how a group of fat women would come together and sit in a circle, and how a few men also attended the meeting, but they sat in the corners or along the wall. Those men obviously came to the meetings because they were interested in fatness and fat people. The fat women there mostly saw them as creepy and to be suspicious of.

It's almost half a century later, and in many ways nothing has changed. When I look at many threads and posts here at Dimensions, the topic is how physical attraction shouldn't matter, that it's the inside that counts, that seeking fatness or certain attributes is just a fetish, and so on.

That's really sad. It's also one of the main reasons why I started Dimensions all those decades ago, to help fat people and their admirers learn about each other and find each other. I have always felt that as long as there are fat people and those who seek and admire them, bringing those groups together made for a potential match made in heaven. And I still feel that way.

There is a reason why we are the way we are, why we are born a certain way or grow up to be a certain way. And there is a reason why we seek for someone special and have visions and dreams of that someone to fill the void and want in our lives. The big tragedy here simply is that FAs want and seek a human quality that is, in general, not considered attractive. So those who do consider fatness attractive feel/are made to feel that they are weird for wanting something that is considered bad by society. And those who are fat and hate being fat look with suspicion on those who find them attractive, and the last thing they want is to be reminded of the part of themselves that they hate.

So it's a case of wish-for-something (FAs) versus hate-to-be-that-something (fat people). And that makes for the "How dare you find me physically attractive! You are weird!" we see all too often. That's so sad as this denial of oneself, this self hatred, is the source of much misery where happiness could be, with or without a partner.

[TraciJo67]

While I agree with you that what you've written is indeed a sad waste of time for both FAs and BBW/BHM's (i.e., suspicion and societal castigation), I don't think it is a complete picture, Conrad.

I agree with you -- and others, who have stated that there is nothing wrong with an attraction to body parts, sizes, preferences for this or that or the other thing. I have them (tall, dark, reed thin, accent) and I understand that part of myself so absolutely do not begrudge others their preferences, whatever they may be.

I make a distinction between a preference and a fetish, though. While I can absolutely understand the emotional need behind a fetish, it is not something that I could accept in a personal relationship. I have my own reasons for this, and believe me, it's not a trait that I can control, either. I equate fetishism with objectification. I also have concerns that nobody could possibly ever live up, long-term, to this kind of standard. I'd think that the relationship would be doomed to fail, for example, if my partner needed me fat and I became thin due to illness, advanced age, or even via personal choice.

I am not suggesting that FAs are fetishists. I absolutely know that this is not the case for many, even most. Unfortunately though, there is a certain percentage who do identify as FA and this is what would concern me about seeking out a relationship with someone who identifies FA. It wouldn't STOP me -- I would just be more cautious in getting to know that person, and would clarify that my fat (or boobs, or blonde hair, or for that matter my middle-aged spread or liver spots ) is an exciting, enticing element of attraction and not the be-all-to-end-all.

I hope I've made some sense; I know I live in my head more in relation to issues like this, and it's not always easy for me to explain myself succintly. I think some people read this and immediately think "She's saying FAs are EBBBBBILLLLL FETISHISTS" and that's not what I believe at all. I believe, personally, that there's a shoe for every foot -- even among those who do have a particular fetish, so long as there is also honesty on all sides.

I'm responding only because my own hang-up, when I see posts like this, are that I see sweeping generalizations (perhaps where none are even intended). I don't hate my body, and I don't think it's at all strange that a man would find it attractive. I did feel this way, to some extent, when I was younger -- but that had less to do with my body size (I felt this way even when I was thin) and more to do with my own baggage/insecurities. What I've learned is that most men aren't the shallow creatures we assume them to be, using Cosmo and Vogue and mainstream media as our examples. They are as accepting of our imperfections as we are of theirs, generally speaking. Most seem to actually prefer women with at least some curves/padding. In my personal experience, my husband has been just fine with every pound gained and lost and gained again. My sisters' husbands are just as in love with them as they were when they married the much thinner versions. I've never really had a relationship -- personal, friendly, familial, or otherwise -- in which I've experienced harsh male judgment about body size.

In fact, what *has* bothered my husband in relation to my weight has only been MY unhappiness, whining, wishing I could lose this or that or do away with this imperfection, smooth that one out, etc.

[joswitch]

Originally Posted by Webmaster

Bill Fabrey, the man who founded NAAFA (which then stood for National Association to Aid Fat Americans) in 1969 often told of the first meetings of the organization in Manhattan. He described how a group of fat women would come together and sit in a circle, and how a few men also attended the meeting, but they sat in the corners or along the wall. Those men obviously came to the meetings because they were interested in fatness and fat people. The fat women there mostly saw them as creepy and to be suspicious of.

It's almost half a century later, and in many ways nothing has changed. When I look at many threads and posts here at Dimensions, the topic is how physical attraction shouldn't matter, that it's the inside that counts, that seeking fatness or certain attributes is just a fetish, and so on.

That's really sad. It's also one of the main reasons why I started Dimensions all those decades ago, to help fat people and their admirers learn about each other and find each other. I have always felt that as long as there are fat people and those who seek and admire them, bringing those groups together made for a potential match made in heaven. And I still feel that way.

There is a reason why we are the way we are, why we are born a certain way or grow up to be a certain way. And there is a reason why we seek for someone special and have visions and dreams of that someone to fill the void and want in our lives. The big tragedy here simply is that FAs want and seek a human quality that is, in general, not considered attractive. So those who do consider fatness attractive feel/are made to feel that they are weird for wanting something that is considered bad by society. And those who are fat and hate being fat look with suspicion on those who find them attractive, and the last thing they want is to be reminded of the part of themselves that they hate.

So it's a case of wish-for-something (FAs) versus hate-to-be-that-something (fat people). And that makes for the "How dare you find me physically attractive! You are weird!" we see all too often. That's so sad as this denial of oneself, this self hatred, is the source of much misery where happiness could be, with or without a partner.

Honestly Conrad, I think DIMs is awesome and it's done and continues to do great work - but sadly DIMs, NAAFA etc. and the Internet itself arrived about 20 or 30 years too late to prevent fat-hatred and the misery-industry becoming so completely embedded in Western culture / media / gov't that it's perceived by the masses as an eternal verity. And is internalized by almost all of its victims too.

It's been the last ten years or so that have been absolutely extraordinary in the exponential growth of the misery-industry. The break point was when the fuckers managed to infiltrate WHO etc. so well that they were able to get all the BMI (Basically Meaningless Index) cut-off lines redefined*. Once they did this millions were instantly categorised "over"weight (THE category of people who LIVE LONGEST btw!) and "obese" without gaining an ounce!

(*Honourable mention goes to Linda Bacon's mentor - whose name I forget atm - for being the sole dissenting voice of sanity on that board!)

Once the misery-industry realised the sheeple would happily swallow that blatant con - the jig was up and they steamrollered Western culture en masse. I remember reading somewhere that fat-hatred / starve yourself messages in the media were up from tens of instances per week ten years ago, to thousands now.

So, the bummer is that in order to pull someone out of that mindset you virtually have to get them to reject the entire "Matrix" - everything they've ever seen, read or heard. And most people really, really love the blue pill.

Still, let's keep on plugging away. Maybe a few more people will find some happiness against all the odds. That's well worth fighting for!

[joswitch]

Oh, and the "love me DESPITE my physical self" meme is probably one of the most poisonous anti-human ideas that ever took to un-life, whilst seeming so perfectly charming on the surface.

Grrrrr.

[TraciJo67]

Originally Posted by joswitch

Oh, and the "love me DESPITE my physical self" meme is probably one of the most poisonous anti-human ideas that ever took to un-life, whilst seeming so perfectly charming on the surface.

Grrrrr.

Only because you think that people are saying "DESPITE" when in fact they are probably actually saying "AND".

Who WOULDN'T want to be with a partner who worshipped every inch of his/her body? Given a choice of worship or tolerance, I'll choose the former, thanks.

But if his need to worship included an absolute requirement that I remain fat, or blonde, or young, or even that I must (MUST!) wear stilettos and a raincoat to bed every night ... I'll take option #3. Alone, with a good vibrator

[The Orange Mage]

Yeah, it was a little soul-crushing when the very-young me realized that my late-elementary-school dreams of "Finding a cute, super chubby girl to live happily ever after" was going to be way way harder than I originally thought.

Doesn't help that I'm cursed as a fetishy-type FA with weight gain fantasies and yadda yadda, etc.

I don't feel good as an FA. I feel good as a person, though, so let's go with that.

[musicman]

Originally Posted by Webmaster

It's almost half a century later, and in many ways nothing has changed. When I look at many threads and posts here at Dimensions, the topic is how physical attraction shouldn't matter, that it's the inside that counts, that seeking fatness or certain attributes is just a fetish, and so on.

That's really sad. It's also one of the main reasons why I started Dimensions all those decades ago, to help fat people and their admirers learn about each other and find each other. I have always felt that as long as there are fat people and those who seek and admire them, bringing those groups together made for a potential match made in heaven. And I still feel that way.

Yes, Conrad, it's sad that the forums seem to be filled with the same hatred and misunderstanding you had hoped to eradicate. But I believe Dimensions HAS helped a lot of people. (I know it's helped me; I met my wonderful wife through a Dimensions ad.) It's just that the ones you've helped are not the most prolific posters; they are too busy living their lives, thanks to the self-confidence (or the partner) they found here. Perhaps someday the others will find whatever it is they need, and stop attacking us and you. (Well, we can hope, can't we? )

[PeanutButterfly]

Originally Posted by musicman

Yes, Conrad, it's sad that the forums seem to be filled with the same hatred and misunderstanding you had hoped to eradicate. But I believe Dimensions HAS helped a lot of people. (I know it's helped me; I met my wonderful wife through a Dimensions ad.) It's just that the ones you've helped are not the most prolific posters; they are too busy living their lives, thanks to the self-confidence (or the partner) they found here. Perhaps someday the others will find whatever it is they need, and stop attacking us and you. (Well, we can hope, can't we? )

Quoted for truth. I met my current SO here and it's been one of the best experiences of my life. Your website has helped tons of people but it can only do so much. People have to want to embrace the community before they can really appreciate all it has to offer.

[ImSoDead]

Conrad, I think you're spot on. In the 15 or so years of Dimensions Online I've noticed an uptake in the number of fat people who could feel attractive and appreciate the attention from FA/FFAs. However in the last few years, it seems there's been an about face. In the past year alone I've seen quite a spike in the fat self-hatred therefore can't trust FA/FFAs attitude. I can't explain the uptake at all. It feels like we made a lot of progress and are losing so much of it now. I'm saddened by it.

[butch]

You know what myth I thought growing up, and how much it hurt when I realised it wasn't going to come true? That a fat person and another fat person were the perfect match, and most fat people agreed with me.

That fat people often are thin admirers was a harder thing for me to accept than the fact that there were non-fat people who were mostly or only attracted to fat people.

[Jes]

Originally Posted by Webmaster

He described how a group of fat women would come together and sit in a circle, and how a few men also attended the meeting, but they sat in the corners or along the wall. Those men obviously came to the meetings because they were interested in fatness and fat people. The fat women there mostly saw them as creepy and to be suspicious of.
.

Is it possible that this picture is misleading? That women sit in a group b/c we're socialized to be more chatty and engaged with one another and whatever, and that men are socialized to be quieter, less interactive and to engage less? Or maybe the men were uncomfortable in some way--not there for a meeting and talk and activism, but there to find a woman? I don't know that we can look at the room and where people are and assume from it that women thought men were creepy. Did all of the women stand up at every meeting and say: THESE GUYS ARE CREEPY? No..? Then...

Look at most other social arenas--dances in high school (women standing together and talking, dudes holding up the walls); parties with partnered/married friends (women in the living room or kitchen, sharing stories or doing something, dudes around the tv, or in another room altogether).

it's not at all uncommon for women to be chatting as a group and engaging with one another and men to be much more silent, solitary and on the periphery. I doubt that all the girls in my high school example found the guys creepy and I don't believe that the married women going to a friend's party found their husbands creepy.

[Webmaster]

Originally Posted by Jes

Is it possible that this picture is misleading? That women sit in a group b/c we're socialized to be more chatty and engaged with one another and whatever, and that men are socialized to be quieter, less interactive and to engage less? Or maybe the men were uncomfortable in some way--not there for a meeting and talk and activism, but there to find a woman? I don't know that we can look at the room and where people are and assume from it that women thought men were creepy. Did all of the women stand up at every meeting and say: THESE GUYS ARE CREEPY? No..? Then...

Women definitely have different social patterns than men, but in this instance, the way Bill Fabrey told the story, it was definitely a case of women essentially huddling together in a circular wagon train because they considered the men creepy.

That may or may not have been the case, but the story still is very much like what we're still witnessing today, all these years later: women huddling together with stories of those creepy men with their weird desires. As long as that attitude persists, the general impression will be that a lot of fat women are uptight and self-hating, and a lot of FAs weird and creepy.

For the most part, neither is true, but to get to that truth, the community at large has to become far more tolerant, compassionate, open-minded and understanding. The constant female references of everything under the sun just being "wanking fodder" is hugely insulting to men, just as some unacceptable male behavior is hugely insulting to women. There simply is no reason to perpetuate that sort of thing, and certainly not here at Dimensions.

[CurvyEm]

If it hadn't been for this website I'd have spent my teenage years thinking I was a disgusting horrible person unworthy of love and attraction. Thanks to conrad I didn't spend it that way. I love FA, there are some horrid pervy ones (you know, like horrid pervy men who like thin women?) but there are also some amazing ones

[lovelylady78]

Originally Posted by CurvyEm

If it hadn't been for this website I'd have spent my teenage years thinking I was a disgusting horrible person unworthy of love and attraction. Thanks to conrad I didn't spend it that way. I love FA, there are some horrid pervy ones (you know, like horrid pervy men who like thin women?) but there are also some amazing ones

I wanted to piggyback what Em said...in fact, I've had this conversation with other Dimensions members...oddly, with a BHM who has had the same experience as a BBW like myself.

I joined Dims out of a sense of curiosity, mostly, but also to look for people to form bonds with out of a sense of comradery...I grew up fat, and although I am joyfully happy with myself both physically and otherwise, I do have some scars and sensitivities left over. It's nice to have other fat people in your life who identify with your everyday fat problems (like theatre seats or small booths in restaurants).

But then there is also the romantic side of it that comes with having fat people and their admirers mingling around on one site. And at first you think, "This is great! Potential romatic partners will see past the fat to who I am and what I look like won't be important." But that idea is both naive and wrong...for a couple of reasons:

First, it's naive to think that people will "see past" what you look like. I actually agree with both Jos and Traci (although it often seems like they vehemently disagree, I don't think they're as far removed from each other's viewpoint as they think they are). Anyway, I think especially at the beginning of a relationship the physicality of it is important for both partners. And whether you like it or not, physical attraction IS a part of a healthy romantic relationship. Granted, those things for whatever reasons (even if just age) can and certainly will in some ways change and other aspects of the relationship will have more importance at different times, but sexual attraction is undoubtedly a component.

(Incidentally, this "see past" concept is also important to discredit in an activism context. In order to properly address and correct the "fat hatred" that there has been and continues to be in society, you can't pretend it's not important and choose to ignore it as a non-issue. I'm a fat woman. See my fat! Don't forget, I have to worry about theatre seats and small booths in restaurants. I have differences and because of those differences, people have seen me differently, which is normal. But different doesn't have to be bad. With this next comment, I'm not trying to draw a racial parallel or stir up a debate in this way, but it's like one of my professors in a racial law class said to us once: ignoring obvious differences and pretending everyone is equal will never gain equality. So, even if people went about their business and never said one negative word about overweight people, it won't change their minds internally (because it won't force them to think) and it sure as hell won't make them produce bigger seats. Seeing past something does no good for anyone.)

But, back to the relationships, the second issue is that this is a website FOR fat people and their admirers and supporters. Why should there be any expectation that fat doesn't matter when fat is why it exists? Certainly, there are those people Traci references who, rather than a preference, have a fetish. And I kind of share her view of that...although, I would love to find an FA who loves all of me (not just my fat but including my fat). But there are those extremes everywhere: there are people who are utterly disgusted by the sight a fat person and there are people who get an instant rock hard boner on sight of a fat person. Most folks, though, I think fit in between. (Thank God.) Just like in life, Dims is a mixed bag of personalities and desires. (But unlike life, you don't have to deal with the disgusted portion of the population...again, thank God.) It's just about talking to people enough to figure out where they fit on the spectrum and whether they're a good fit for you (either in terms of being friends or in terms of potential romantic interest or on whatever terms you want).

Em said it much more clearly and succinctly, and I probably could have just gotten away with a "well said," but I wanted to really chime in. I've only been at Dims a couple months, but it's been a very enlightening and enriching experience for me. Thank you for that, Conrad.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by TraciJo67

Only because you think that people are saying "DESPITE" when in fact they are probably actually saying "AND".

Who WOULDN'T want to be with a partner who worshipped every inch of his/her body? Given a choice of worship or tolerance, I'll choose the former, thanks.

But if his need to worship included an absolute requirement that I remain fat, or blonde, or young, or even that I must (MUST!) wear stilettos and a raincoat to bed every night ... I'll take option #3. Alone, with a good vibrator

Can't spread rep But excellent post!

[Rowan]

I do also want to agree with the others in saying that Conrad, you have done a fantastic job with this website and bringing people together. And that's why when I finally met you at a bash once, I was awe struck

[Elfcat]

It seems like it needs to be brought out that creepiness often arises out of a mutually contradictory combination of hesitance and impatience, not knowing when to say what, when to do what, which often leads someone to go from skulking and acting unconfident to suddenly blurting out things or taking actions brazenly just to get past the hesitance. I think often men look at what other men do and the response they get, and conclude that the choice is either getting wound up in a spiral of second-guessing as to what the correct thing, the correct word, the correct time is, or plopping a whole cartload of stuff on the table all at once. It can seem hard to strike a balance between being too quiet or being overwhelming.

Until there is some revolutionary shift which wipes away the conditions which produce this dilemma, especially newcomers, and even old hands, among FAs will always have the question of "How do I tell the fat woman I like her, and make it clear it is ALL of her and not just the pretty face?" And even some pretty self-confident fat people will be asking themselves, "Why is this person making such a dissertation on what my flesh means?"

So we'll always be seeing some of that here. But I think that wrangling and contention is a natural part of how the conversation progresses to something more pleasant for all involved.

[joswitch]

Oh I'm so glad you asked that Elfcat!

Not creepy = "whatever someone you find desirable is doing"

Creepy = "whatever someone you do not find desirable is doing."

Really, really creepy = "whatever someone you find repulsive is doing"

[BlueBurning]

The tension that often seems to exist between the two groups does make some sense. On the one hand you have a group of individuals who have been told that due to their physical size they are not seen as physically attractive and that in order to attract a partner they need to change their physical appearance. On the other hand you have FAs who often have to come to grips with the fact their ideal mate does not mesh with modern societies view of beauty and deal with such issues which arise from this. Once the two groups meet you are bound to have some issues arise due to how each group has been socialized to view physical beauty and toss in some bad experiences for both sides and you wind up with some tension.

[LoveBHMS]

Well part of this has to do with what's appropriate. If I went to a NAAFA meeting to talk to other fat people about boycotting an airline that made you pay for an extra seat or to assemble and distribute a list of fat-friendly restaurants, I would find it creepy and innappropriate if some thin men were hanging around just to find a date or hookup.

If somebody logs onto Dims to talk about buying a car and says "Now that I'm 450 pounds my Nissan Sentra no longer fits because my belly rubs against the steering wheel" that person wants other 450+ posters to say what car they drive, they don't want an FA to say "Wow that's hot". If an FA finds it hot, that's totally normal but it's not OK to say so in that venue. I once worked with a caucasian male who apparently had never in like ten years hooked up with a caucasian female. I find it normal and appropriate and not weird at all to be attracted to another race; I would find it weird and creepy if he were out attending NAACP meetings or hanging around outside the Asian Students' Alliance meeting at a local college just to check out the women.

As FA's, it's inescapable that we have to look at the fact that being fat isn't going to be any more desirable simply because we exist. If you were going to list "sucky things about being fat" and the only thing on the list is "nobody is attracted to you" then the existence of FA's is a huge deal. Our existence though, doesn't eradicate too-small desks at school, lack of clothing stores, bullying, restaurant booths, potential health problems, or nagging relatives.

It's fantastic and wonderful to be somebody's object of desire, and no doubt having that experience is life changing to some degree and a huge boost of self esteem. However I find it almost arrogant to believe that I or any other FA can affect somebody's happiness by merely being attracted to them.

[superodalisque]

it would help a lot of there were more average kinds of things going, not totally centered on fat, on to relax people. there are other things besides the body. the body is beautiful and great and should be celebrated but in order for people to feel free in their bodies and comfortable with sharing them there has to be trust. how does trust happen? by building real relationships not based on one being the object of the other but by interacting with people in human ways that have nothing to do from their benefiting from you with no intention of knowing who you really are. how about just getting to know each other as people, including family and friends? when people get put into a sexualized environment its bound to create a lot of distrust , especially if the rest of who they are gets lost and other people never get to know that side of them.

as for people seeming creepy, generally they only seem that way if they feel that way. unfortunately there are a lot of guys out there who seem to feel odd, creepy and ill at ease--and lets not forget that some of them like it. its natural for women to sense that in someone. if someone does not feel the need to explain himself and is comfortable with who he is, other people generally do as well. its not about fat women accepting awkwardness and making people comfortable but about people accepting themselves and being comfortable within themselves and who they are. i think the tension fat women feel mirrors the same self doubt men feel. if they feel a tension within themselves and worry about using a fat woman for her body while not being able to contend with the reality of her then naturally a woman will feel that in what he does, how he acts and what he says. you can't expect her to be comfortable with someone who may not be into her on all levels if thats what she wants for herself. its unfair to expect her to, especially in a world where she sees lots of fat women around her being comfortably loved likes its no big deal at all.

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

it would help a lot of there were more average kinds of things going on to relax people. there are other things besides the body. the body is beautiful and great and should be celebrated but in order for people to feel free in their bodies and comfortable with sharing them there has to be trust. how does trust happen? by building real relationships not based on one being the object of the other but by interacting with people in human ways that have nothing to do from their benefiting from you with no intention of knowing who you really are. how about just getting to know each other as people, including family and friends? when people get put into a sexualized environment its bound to create a lot of distrust , especially if the rest of who they are gets lost and other people never get to know that side of you.

If only there were some place on Dims filled with games and friendly banter, where someone could build relationships with others in a manner that's not as overtly sexual as the parts related to fat sexuality.

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by Blackjack

If only there were some place on Dims filled with games and friendly banter, where someone could build relationships with others in a manner that's not as overtly sexual as the parts related to fat sexuality.

i'm not talking about a little virtual section on dims but in real life over all. fat people need to live for real. that breaks down the suspicion more because it means that its not something that could be a a closeted thing for someone that only happens in someone's dark room at night in front of a screen where no one knows but them. its out in the open and in front of everyone. that makes a huge difference for fat people.

fat people do notice if people only feel comfortable dealing with them away from the general public eye. a lot of suspicions would melt if they felt they could trust someone to be with them anywhere doing anything with everyone in society looking. its easy to be social long distance safe in a room where you can turn something on and off or in a cloistered protected group, but what about when the pressure of society is an issue? fat folks have had enough of the secret fatty and only at fat events kinds of things. they want someone who'll travel the the world with them and not just a tiny dark corner of it. the lounge is great but its not what i'm talking about. its such a tiny non committal part of the big world a fat person has to navigate--and its not real. trust is built on things that are real. and even there i don't see our families and non fat friends being invited so they can lean more about how to be more accepting of us, our viewpoints and our needs.

[rubenesquehunny]

I agree with Conrad almost 100% along with some other posts....I do agree, Dims has opened my life up to so many people who are either like me(fat lol) or like people like me lol....and it has brought me a warmth already I just can't compare and I just wish I had discovered it earlier....with that being said, I think there is a problem with the conception of fetish and preference. In Wikipedia (i know lol so scholarly) it says fetish-"the attribution of religious or mystical qualities to inanimate objects" which I am not!! I am not an inamimate object like a foot or shoe, I am a person who happens to be fat! Sexual preference-(same awesome source) " Sexual orientation is a social construct used to describe a pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, both genders, neither gender, or another gender" which is much more what sounds like what is between a fat person and those who are attracted to him/her.
The issue, I think, it that since FA'a really like fat, it is almost an objectification of the person the fat is attached to, BUT it isn't when you realized it is just part of the person's sexual preference (which is believed to be linked to sexual orientation btw). Would it be any different for a straight guy to grab his girls ass as it would be for a FA to grab his/her hunny's belly (as long as in both situations it is acceptable to both parties)? I know of FA's that cannot achieve or maintain an erection if the person they are with is not fat, just as some guy friends could never be sexually attracted to a big girl. I think comparing liking blonde hair to being a FA or FFA is flawed and can be harmful when you factor in how many posts you see of people speaking of realtionships they are only part fulfilled in due to the size of the partner.....sites like these are so needed to bring together people who are on the same page....just my 2 cents

[kioewen]

Originally Posted by joswitch

Not creepy = "whatever someone you find desirable is doing"

Creepy = "whatever someone you do not find desirable is doing."

Really, really creepy = "whatever someone you find repulsive is doing"

Quoted for truth.