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Old 09-05-2011, 10:26 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Tania View Post
Honestly, I'm not singling you out and wouldn't've suspected you in particular of attempting to invalidate your friends' feelings. I've been watching this thread from the beginning and vascillating as far as what I wanted to contribute because I generally distrust broad-based, self-congratulatory kinds of "oh aren't we evolved" types of statements. I'm not trying to negate anybody's honest feelings, just offering another view from my part of the world. Because trust me, there ARE plenty of people out there who are coming from a bitchy place when they talk about their friends like this.

ETA: I went back through the thread to find some of the comments that reeked of "my friends think I'm picky for a fat girl, but they're just projecting on me because they're needy and stupid" and couldn't find most of what I was responding to. It's quite possible that my comments might have been sparked by a different thread or even a related conversation on another site, which makes it totally clear why you thought I was dogging you, Rachel. I'm sorry!
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:31 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
If you don't like the term league how about target market.

I'm married but if I were still looking here are some examples of people and places that would be outside my target market:

I'm an atheist so church functions would likely not provide many romantic prospects;

I'm a social democrat so Tea Party events likewise would not be good romantic hunting grounds;

I'm not rich or famous, therefore, I'd be wasting my time pursuing many West LA//Beverley Hills types;

I'm not young and thin and I don't have perfect teeth so it would also be a waste of time to go clubbing in Miami Beach.

So my target market would be middle age non-materialistic liberal atheists. Since only a small percentage of the US population fits this demographic you could say that most of the population is out of my league -- I don't have any problem with this. You could also say that I'm being overly picky by writing off a large percentage of the population -- I'm OK with that as well.
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I'm fine saying most of the population might not be a good match for you (I'd say the same for myself, really, for different reasons). But "out of your league" implies that it's because those things that define what you're looking for or what you have to offer are objectively worse or lower than what other people have to offer or are looking for. And that is false.
In the same vein as what mcbeth is saying; I've always heard the phrase to imply that your physically less attractive than whoever is "out of your league." I've heard it used a lot with the whole 1-10 rating system; i.e. I'm a 6 and she's a 9.. she's totally out of my league.

Example: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815236/

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Storyline - Kirk is an average Joe who works as a TSA agent at the Pittsburgh airport with his friends. The status quo of his fairly monotonous life ends when he meets Molly, a smart, kind and gorgeous blonde. Because she's way out of his league (she's a hard 10 and he is but a 5), Kirk knows there's no way on earth she's ever going to fall for him. Or is there...?

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Old 09-05-2011, 10:34 AM   #53
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I was laughing a bit at this because I'm a middle-aged non-materialistic liberal atheist. And I don't think it would come as any surprise to you that we wouldn't get along at all
Sharing the same general characteristics and outlook on life is no guarantee of compatibility. However, not sharing them pretty much guarantees failure.

Interestingly, from what I can gather from your posts, you and my wife are similar in many ways.
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:49 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by thatgirl08
"always heard the phrase to imply that your physically less attractive than whoever is "out of your league." I've heard it used a lot with the whole 1-10 rating system; i.e. I'm a 6 and she's a 9.. she's totally out of my league. "
I think, depending on the context, elements like wealth and class and education and profession can come into play too. It really just depends on what's important to the other person.

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Originally Posted by happyface83 View Post
..a man is not made to feel like shit if he wants a woman who looks like a perfect 10.
I dunno...I think if someone actually expressed this as openly and directly as you put it; it would be frowned upon to say the least. No less so if they, themselves, were rich, famous, and supremely good-looking. And so, in as much as we can interpret this type of sentiment out of anyone's behavior, I think we also know that they realize they're being judged for it.

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Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
"Sharing the same general characteristics and outlook on life is no guarantee...not sharing them pretty much guarantees failure."
But wouldn't you also agree that a certain level of conflict makes a relationship, somehow,more vital. I don't mean the simple kind of disagreements that inevitably result in any two people living together (e.g., If you -both- like doing the dishes -and- cooking or if you both enjoy driving more than "navigating;" you could be both more similar, but less compatible for it.), but a certain difference in perspective. The type of difference that makes each of you somewhat of a challenge for the other....Or is that just the stuff of romatic comedies? I mean, when I think of the most successful couples I know (seemed happpiest the longest) what strikes me most is their ability & commitment to navigate these types of "incompatabilities," and not always so fluidly. How much they do to encourage each partner to broaden themselves and grow as an individual.
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:55 PM   #55
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My SO is definitely out of my league.

This is why we have agreed to never, ever discuss the Designated Hitter rule.

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Old 09-06-2011, 08:12 AM   #56
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I find this to be very judgmental. Just because someone likes having sex with multiple partners doesn't mean they deserve to be treated poorly or without respect.

Shaming or denouncing someone based on their sexuality is just like shaming someone because they are fat. Why must we constantly find ways to elevate ourselves above others.

*steps off soap box*

To answer the question posed in this thread. I don't consider it being picky, but having standards. I will not be with someone who doesn't show respect & consideration. If the person doesn't have the qualities I value, then I'm not interested. They may be a perfectly good person but if they aren't the right fit for me, why bother?
Necro-post alert!!! I just saw this and wanted to respond (just a few months late)...anyhow, yeah I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. I never said anything about having multiple partners...I said that if you are going to allow just anybody to have sex with you, you really have no leverage to complain. I also never said that anyone should allow them selves to be treated poorly or tolerate any kind of abuse for that matter. I don't think I said anything close to any of that, so I'm not really sure where you are coming from.

All I was trying to say is because we are females, we hold the key to our own happiness. We are the only ones who control what we want, what we put up with, and what we won't put up with. I understand that there are some extreme situations out there that not every female will be able to get out of or away from...but for the most part, we choose what we want, who we want, and how we want it. Call it what you will...being picky, having standards, being judgmental (I guess)...whatever label you decide to give the process on how you pick and choose the lucky man/woman/persons, it doesn't really matter just as long as you are happy, content and hopefully satisfied in the end...I mean, that is the ultimate goal right?
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:36 PM   #57
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Here is something I wish I had know long ago. There are no "leagues", no one is better that anyone else. Every person, no matter what their social class or how they look has a different definition of attractive. They have their own likes and dislikes just like you do. You just have to find a person who has what you want and likes what you got.

The idea if "leagues" plays on our own lack of confidence, therefore the people we find most attractive seem out of our reach. Something in our mind tells us that more attractive people are better, more virtuous beings that could never possibly be interested in us. The actual fact is, they are just like us and they have their own spectrum of attraction like you do. Even a person who is a 10 to you may only feel like a 5, they may think you are a 10. In that case neither one of you will make a move because you each think the other person is out of your league when in fact you would be a perfect match.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:11 PM   #58
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I'm picky and have high standards. I didn't used to. When I first got into the size acceptance scene and started dating, OMG, I was a loser magnet.

However, I didn't know at the time I could do better. I didn't even realize I was "settling" until one night at dinner I was sitting with this guy (who didn't have the greatest personality or manners) and I was thinking to myself "If I still weighed 120 lbs., I wouldn't give this guy the time of day." I was only with him because I didn't want to be date-less on a Saturday night.

After that I swore to myself I would never "settle" again. Before I decide if I want to date a certain guy, I'll ask myself "Would I still be interested in him if I weighed 120 lbs. again?" If the answer is yes, then great! If the answer is no, then I know I'd be settling.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:11 PM   #59
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Here is something I wish I had know long ago. There are no "leagues", no one is better that anyone else. Every person, no matter what their social class or how they look has a different definition of attractive. They have their own likes and dislikes just like you do. You just have to find a person who has what you want and likes what you got.

The idea if "leagues" plays on our own lack of confidence, therefore the people we find most attractive seem out of our reach. Something in our mind tells us that more attractive people are better, more virtuous beings that could never possibly be interested in us. The actual fact is, they are just like us and they have their own spectrum of attraction like you do. Even a person who is a 10 to you may only feel like a 5, they may think you are a 10. In that case neither one of you will make a move because you each think the other person is out of your league when in fact you would be a perfect match.
You're absolutely right that beautiful people and/or rich people aren't any better than the rest of us. However, we have to face reality -- some people are going to be unattainable -- that doesn't mean they're better than you or me -- it just means that we're never going to be part of their circle. This doesn't bother me in the least.

The fact that I'm too old fat and broke to pick up chicks in a trendy Miami Beach night club doesn't mean they're better than me. It just means that if I were still looking (and thankfully I'm not) I'd best look elsewhere.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:23 PM   #60
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I think, depending on the context, elements like wealth and class and education and profession can come into play too. It really just depends on what's important to the other person.
Agreed. It's always used, from what I've heard, to refer to somewhat shallow characteristics as opposed to differentiating people based on religion, common interests, etc. Like, he's a millionaire, he's out of my league.. not, he likes tennis and I like volleyball, he's out of my league.

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Here is something I wish I had know long ago. There are no "leagues", no one is better that anyone else. Every person, no matter what their social class or how they look has a different definition of attractive. They have their own likes and dislikes just like you do. You just have to find a person who has what you want and likes what you got.

The idea if "leagues" plays on our own lack of confidence, therefore the people we find most attractive seem out of our reach. Something in our mind tells us that more attractive people are better, more virtuous beings that could never possibly be interested in us. The actual fact is, they are just like us and they have their own spectrum of attraction like you do. Even a person who is a 10 to you may only feel like a 5, they may think you are a 10. In that case neither one of you will make a move because you each think the other person is out of your league when in fact you would be a perfect match.
I definitely agree with you. I just want to clarify I wasn't saying the whole league system is a good one, just discussing how people use it.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:27 PM   #61
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I'm definitely talking about people in your circle or a place that you can reasonably get to. I know I'll never meet (insert Hollywood starlet name here), but the girl who works in the Sunglasses Hut in the mall that could be her twin sister is certainly worth a shot. I understand that an individual person may not get a chance to go after a famous hunk or beauty but that doesn't prevent them from finding someone of equal of greater attractiveness in their own area. Basically what I'm saying is don't be intimidated and feel like you don't have a chance just because you think someone you meet is very attractive, at least put your cards on the table and see of they bite. If you don't show your hand they might not know you are playing.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:29 PM   #62
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I definitely agree with you. I just want to clarify I wasn't saying the whole league system is a good one, just discussing how people use it.
I wasn't responding directly to you, just tossing something out there.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:31 PM   #63
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I wasn't responding directly to you, just tossing something out there.
I figured but I wanted to respond anyway in case anyone misunderstood me!
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:19 PM   #64
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Picky? hm. I'd like to think "standers" is a better term. But sure...if someone wants to call me picky then screw it..we can play it like that. lol

I know what I like. Not saying that those "likes" can't can't change over time..but..

You get my point.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:24 AM   #65
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I guess my point, men are not asked to settle. It is always the woman that is asked to settle for any man.

Oh so what if he looks like the Joker? He's a good man! A good man is hard to find so dont be so shallow.
So what if he's got bad breath? That can be worked on!
I know I'm exaggerating but folks get the point. Women are constantly asked to settle for some of the most basic crap just to say we can have a good man. I dont see men making those accommodations for women because they dont have to and they are not asked to settle.

This reminds me of the Kanye West song,

"I ain't sayin' she a golddigger, but she ain't messin' with no broke _ _ _ _ _"
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:01 PM   #66
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I guess my point, men are not asked to settle. It is always the woman that is asked to settle for any man.

Oh so what if he looks like the Joker? He's a good man! A good man is hard to find so dont be so shallow.
So what if he's got bad breath? That can be worked on!
I know I'm exaggerating but folks get the point. Women are constantly asked to settle for some of the most basic crap just to say we can have a good man. I dont see men making those accommodations for women because they dont have to and they are not asked to settle.

This reminds me of the Kanye West song,

"I ain't sayin' she a golddigger, but she ain't messin' with no broke _ _ _ _ _"
That's interesting. I think you're right about not hearing men being told they should settle ("settle down" maybe, but not "settle" in the same sense). They're not getting the "You want to have a kid, don't you?! THE EGGS! THINK OF YOUR EGGS!" treatment women sometimes get.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:21 PM   #67
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I guess my point, men are not asked to settle. It is always the woman that is asked to settle for any man.

Oh so what if he looks like the Joker? He's a good man! A good man is hard to find so dont be so shallow.
So what if he's got bad breath? That can be worked on!
I know I'm exaggerating but folks get the point. Women are constantly asked to settle for some of the most basic crap just to say we can have a good man. I dont see men making those accommodations for women because they dont have to and they are not asked to settle.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Guys make at least as many accommodations as women. However, guys either don't talk about it or use different language.

Guys tend not to deconstruct potential mates. A female either makes the grade or doesn't (this makes it almost impossible for guys to answer "why" questions when their couplet breaks up). When a guy falls for a girl they very often overlook quite major issues -- they just don't call it settling.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:27 PM   #68
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...snip... When a guy falls for a girl they very often overlook quite major issues -- they just don't call it settling.
No, they call it "dealing with it" kidding...sorta
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:44 PM   #69
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I think we all make compromises in our relationships, I don't believe in "soul mates" so finding an absolutely perfect match is unlikely. It doesn't mean we love the person any less.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:23 PM   #70
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I think we all make compromises in our relationships, I don't believe in "soul mates" so finding an absolutely perfect match is unlikely. It doesn't mean we love the person any less.
I think there's a difference between overlooking major issues and making compromises though.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:02 PM   #71
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And there is a difference between overlooking major flaws in a willful ignorance sort of way and making informed choices about your long term compatibility with another person. I was kind of responding about Happyfaces comment that men don't make accommodations for women. I think most of us who have really thought about what we want or who have had a few failed relationships and learned from them know what we need from someone else and what our dealbreakers are.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:08 PM   #72
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I think that men also don't hold as many strict expectations for women. I'm not saying that they don't have their preferences, but generally men have a shorter list of pro's and con's in regards to what they are looking for in a woman. Where women start off with a list of expectations that they want in a man, and then they continue to add to it, "fine tuning" exactly what they are looking for. Part of that I think women react and think on a more emotional level then a man does. That's just what I think, I'm sure not every man or woman fits this idea, but I think most do. Its not a good or bad thing, its just the way we are all wired.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:56 PM   #73
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I personally think that men are more picky than women and the things they tend to be picky about are things we can't exactly control, like body shape, size, etc. Men tend to have a laundry list of physical attributes they want in a woman, and a short list of personality traits. There are more women than men in the world so they can kinda afford to nitpick so hard. They can choose to be with whoever is closest to this ideal while they keep looking for the next best thing. But because their ideal is usually impossibly specific they will never find the best thing. It doesn't exist. Ask a man what his ideal woman is and he will often list physical things first, whereas women will talk about character traits first. Maybe it's the way we are socialized. Who knows. Since women see character traits as a bit mutable, they may see it as an investment to "change him," because after all, he'll be a better person in the end. Since the priority for men is often looks they figure if they don't have the means to change a woman's looks, (like plastic surgery, a.k.a. a boob job) then it would be easier to just trade up so to speak and find a new one.

I think both those things are stupid. If a man behaves a certain way when you meet him, don't expect him to change later. It ain't gonna happen. If a guy wants bigger boobs then he should find a girl with big boobs to begin with.

And yes, I am aware that there are mature people out in the world. The above doesn't apply to everyone, just some of them.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:25 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieD View Post
I think that men also don't hold as many strict expectations for women. I'm not saying that they don't have their preferences, but generally men have a shorter list of pro's and con's in regards to what they are looking for in a woman. Where women start off with a list of expectations that they want in a man, and then they continue to add to it, "fine tuning" exactly what they are looking for. Part of that I think women react and think on a more emotional level then a man does. That's just what I think, I'm sure not every man or woman fits this idea, but I think most do. Its not a good or bad thing, its just the way we are all wired.
Yes men tend to have shorter requirement lists -- and we don't always stick to our list (I like tall women yet my romantic history consists of mostly short women).

I'm going to disagree about the men being less emotional in their choices. Guys rely on very gut level instincts when deciding who to form relationships with. I proposed to my wife on our third date -- on a very visceral level I just felt she was an order of magnitude better than her predecessors.

I found this web page about how guys choose women interesting.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Relatio...n_Select_Women
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:58 PM   #75
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*SUBSCRIBES*

I could have said just about everything in this post. I haven't dated in so long I'm embarassed to even say. Honestly I'm more content this way. I tried the other way and not only was I no better off but it actually took away parts of my soul. Not for me.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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