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Old 07-24-2011, 04:20 PM   #1
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Default FA Myths Thread #11

"FAs are somehow more "evolved", intelligent, empathetic and courageous than everyone else."

One note: Please make suggestions for future threads in the myths and misconceptions thread. Try to stay on topic.

Other than that: BEGIN!
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:36 PM   #2
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Oh, nice. So Cors suggests a topic that invites bashing of men who admire full-figured women, and it gets a thread?

Isn't it rather convenient (or to put it another way, isn't it unjust) that the topic excludes FFAs, in a board that is called the "FA/FFA forum"?

Or does the topic suggester believe, or wish to imply, that FFAs are actually "more evolved, intelligent, empathetic and courageous than everyone else," but FAs are not?
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:55 PM   #3
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by kioewen View Post
Oh, nice. So Cors suggests a topic that invites bashing of men who admire full-figured women, and it gets a thread?

Isn't it rather convenient (or to put it another way, isn't it unjust) that the topic excludes FFAs, in a board that is called the "FA/FFA forum"?

Or does the topic suggester believe, or wish to imply, that FFAs are actually "more evolved, intelligent, empathetic and courageous than everyone else," but FAs are not?

-Just because I say "FA" in the thread does not mean it is exclusive to male FAs. All of the threads are for everyone. So if it relates to FFA myths, then people are able to chime in. I'm one of the people that feels no need to say this at times, because the differentiation isn't always necessary.

-Secondly: There's a huge difference between being confident in your preferences and thinking it somehow makes you better than others. FAs and FFAs of all types are guilty of this thinking, and it's a myth because there's no proof that this somehow makes us better.
To relate it in how I wanted it to be: This is bridged by the myth that FAs are more caring, and care more about personality stemming from the view of others that FAs are not physically attracted to the people they are with. These are all myths.

Thirdly:
This is the second thread in a row where I've seen you start an outlandish rant accusing someone of wrongdoing. You are making mountains out of mole hills, and this time your misinterpretation while on topic was out of line. I will kindly ask you to cease these actions, or at the very least think before you express yourself. I tend to be liberal about this board because I don't believe it should be heavily censored (If at all), but continue these actions, and I will ban you. All right?
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jon Blaze View Post

This is the second thread in a row where I've seen you start an outlandish rant accusing someone of wrongdoing. You are making mountains out of mole hills, and this time your misinterpretation while on topic was out of line. I will kindly ask you to cease these actions, or at the very least think before you express yourself. I tend to be liberal about this board because I don't believe it should be heavily censored (If at all), but continue these actions, and I will ban you. All right?
Very well.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jon Blaze View Post
There's a huge difference between being confident in your preferences and thinking it somehow makes you better than others. FAs and FFAs of all types are guilty of this thinking, and it's a myth because there's no proof that this somehow makes us better.
This is one opinion, but what I find interesting in these myth discussions is that in many cases, some opinions have been ventured that the myths might neither be completely true or false, but could have kernels of truth in them, whether these truths are favourable or unfavourable to FAs.

Likewise, in this case, I think the myth could be true in some aspects -- though not as a blanket statement, of course. However, I think looking for conclusive "proof" in this or any similar topic would be difficult, because really, what could be "proof" of any aspect of human behaviour? Even clinical surveys can, of course, be false; so all that we're left with is competing and/or overlapping theories.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by kioewen View Post
This is one opinion, but what I find interesting in these myth discussions is that in many cases, some opinions have been ventured that the myths might neither be completely true or false, but could have kernels of truth in them, whether these truths are favourable or unfavourable to FAs.

Likewise, in this case, I think the myth could be true in some aspects -- though not as a blanket statement, of course. However, I think looking for conclusive "proof" in this or any similar topic would be difficult, because really, what could be "proof" of any aspect of human behaviour? Even clinical surveys can, of course, be false; so all that we're left with is competing and/or overlapping theories.
I don't think anyone is looking for proof. None of these threads are scientific. There is nothing extrapolated and the polls when we have them are informal. This is a message board and the point of it is discussion. You can agree or dissent. To jump to conclusions about someone else's intent from one post especially in light of their posting history however speaks volumes about you more than about the person who suggested the myth.
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kioewen View Post
Oh, nice. So Cors suggests a topic that invites bashing of men who admire full-figured women, and it gets a thread?

Isn't it rather convenient (or to put it another way, isn't it unjust) that the topic excludes FFAs, in a board that is called the "FA/FFA forum"?

Or does the topic suggester believe, or wish to imply, that FFAs are actually "more evolved, intelligent, empathetic and courageous than everyone else," but FAs are not?
Oh, it is definitely meant to include FFAs as well and should have been corrected to read FAs and FFAs.

Sorry for the confusion!
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:22 PM   #9
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There are a few different things that need to be addressed in this question.

We first have to separate fat fetishists from people who want to be with a fat partner whether they identify as an FA/FFA or not. Just because someone has a fetish for fat doesn't mean they can function in a relationship with a fat person. Pure fetishists often don't have what it takes to make a relationship last over the long term. Also, just because a person doesn't identify as an FA does not mean they aren't attracted to larger partners, a great deal of people who like larger partners haven't come into contact with the SA community for whatever reason. A person who is attracted to fat people who accepts it and isn't conflicted about it may never search out a community to talk to, I was already married to my BBW wife before I ever heard about the SA community and I only found out about through seeing the book Fat?SO! at the library.

Second, just because someone identifies as an FA doesn't mean they are a better person than someone who doesn't. The attraction to fatness goes across almost all personality types and there are bound to be some winners and some losers among the bunch. People who have the attraction but don't accept it can treat their partners poorly because they dislike that aspect of themselves. Calling yourself an FA isn't a coat of shining armor, you still have to treat your partner or potential partner with respect

Just being attracted to fat people doesn't make you a better person, but if you open yourself up to learn about other people and learn empathy you might become a better person.
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:07 PM   #10
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I don't think anyone is looking for proof. None of these threads are scientific. There is nothing extrapolated and the polls when we have them are informal. This is a message board and the point of it is discussion. You can agree or dissent.
Yes, this is my view as well. "Proof" was referenced in the following statement, to which I was responding:

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it's a myth because there's no proof that this somehow makes us better.
With respect, there will never, can never, be anything that rises to the level of "proof," so it seems a impossible standard against which to measure the truth or weakness of any myth, proposition, or opinion.



As for the following contention, here is where the idea of a "better person" needs to be broken down into different components -- because what makes a person "better" will be, of course, open to endless interpretations, and what one person considers "better," another will not.

Quote:
Second, just because someone identifies as an FA doesn't mean they are a better person than someone who doesn't.
The O.P. helpfully suggested specific categories: "evolved, intelligent, empathetic and courageous." One would have to deal with each in turn.

To take the last point, "courageous," it is certainly possible that open admirers of full-figured women are more "courageous" than someone who is in the closet about his/her preference. "Courage of one's convictions," and all that.

Does it make such a person "better" as a whole? Hard to say -- how does one even measure such a thing? But does it make them better in one specific aspect (courage)? Yes, perhaps it does.

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Old 07-25-2011, 01:12 AM   #11
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It's a preference for a body type, of all the words listed I understand how this makes someone more "intelligent" the least. That's like saying people who prefer redheads are more intelligent than those who prefer brunettes, which as I'm sure we can all agree is complete bunk. Large people are not automatically smarter than thin people (and vice versa) so it's not even though one could argue that being in a relationship with a bigger individual is more mentally stimulating.

Edit to add: People perform courageous and empathetic acts in life all the time. Who is to say the FA who has to 'come out of the FA closet' carries more of these traits than a nonFA who may also carry out these traits but in a different manner. Who's to say who is "more" or "better" for it? Especially since there's many FAs who don't even have to deal with backlash from friends and family with having a larger partner in the first place and they just carry on with their life as normal. Are these individuals now less empathetic and courageous, even if they have outside situations away from their sexuality that may call for these characteristics?

Liking a fuller figured body is an aesthetic preference. No one is better or worse than anyone else for their tastes in their partner's looks (despite what 'society' says, taste is entirely personal).

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Old 07-25-2011, 06:42 AM   #12
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"FAs are somehow more "evolved", intelligent, empathetic and courageous than everyone else."
Probably not. It has been suggested over the years that an unusual number of FAs are engineering, rational types, but while I know a good number of engineers who are FAs, I never saw that assertion quantified or proven in any way.

So as far as I am concerned, more likely than not, FAs simply represent a cross section of the general population, just like most other groups.
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:42 AM   #13
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Good topic, Cors! (and Kioewen, 2 quick points: 1- Cors is an FA (FFA is you prefer), and 2- One of the points of this series of threads was to cover myths FA may have about themselves—it was as much to disillusion FA as it was to clear things up about them to others, that is why it is on this board).

I think there are two premises that tend to lead people to think FA must be somehow more evolved than the average person. They would be:

1- Big folk are naturally attractive, but because most people are brainwashed by society they refuse to recognize this.
2- If you care about appearances you’ll of course go only for the more socially acceptable bodies; to do otherwise indicates higher motives.

I think that there could be a kernel of truth to both of those, in that for some people, in some cases, those may apply. However to me I think the dominant reason FA want fat partners is because that is what turns them on. Sex drive is a powerful thing! We may jump through all sorts of mental hoops to justify liking what we like, but for most FA, being attracted to fat partners comes first, and any broader framework supporting those choices comes later.

So, is being attracted to a fat partner somehow more noble than being attracted to a thin partner? I’d say nah, horny is horny.

However, I do think that anytime one ends up taking the road less travelled--even if what leads them that way is mostly hormones—it creates an opportunity to broaden perspectives, build empathy, and otherwise grow as a person. An opportunity only, not everyone will take advantage of it, and there are plenty of other opportunities where people can gain similar, if not stronger, growth of this kind. But I like to think that their interests will make FA, on average, a little more sensitive and respectful of differences and personal choices.
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:52 PM   #14
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However, I do think that anytime one ends up taking the road less travelled--even if what leads them that way is mostly hormones—it creates an opportunity to broaden perspectives, build empathy, and otherwise grow as a person. An opportunity only, not everyone will take advantage of it, and there are plenty of other opportunities where people can gain similar, if not stronger, growth of this kind. But I like to think that their interests will make FA, on average, a little more sensitive and respectful of differences and personal choices.
Thats a good point; while a preference for a certain body type might not automatically make you more 'evolved' than another person, it can certainly open your eyes up to things you may not have seen otherwise.
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Old 07-25-2011, 01:20 PM   #15
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Depends on what you mean by "courageous".

Some of the F/A's I've seen are completely gutless, ass-kissing, fellow male bashing "yes men" that have no problem shouting invectives at someone only to run and hide when being attacked in return. In fact, I've seen more of these cowards in the community than I ever saw in my earlier years going clubbing with my friends where everyone tried to fall over each other to ask "the hot girl" to dance. What is so "courageous" about attacking another male and then keeping your mouth shut when a woman does something dumb and or not right?

However, if you mean courageous in saying "I prefer fat partners" in public or something then I'd have to agree that it is courageous to go against society in favor of something unique. If that's what you meant then please excuse my first paragraph. I think its pretty courageous to stand up for what you like in the face of people who scoff at you for it.
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:02 PM   #16
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It has been suggested over the years that an unusual number of FAs are engineering, rational types, but while I know a good number of engineers who are FAs, I never saw that assertion quantified or proven in any way.
I've always wondered if that is more of an issue of which F/FAs are likely to seek out a community such as this to explore their FAness. In other words, I wonder if more scientifically minded/technical people are more likely to be fat admirers or if it's just that more scientifically minded/technical fat admirers will want to analyze and think about their FAness, because that's how they approach most things, they think them over and analyze them. On the other hand, the more artistically minded FAs may express and explore their FAness through their writing, painting, etc. I notice a lot of the writers who are prolific in the library, for example, don't post a lot in the FA analysis/theory type of threads. I know as a writer myself, I often "work out" any issues in my life through writing. It could be that's the difference. Don't know, just a theory.

As for the topic, I don't think we're more or less intelligent, we're just a cross section of people and I think we're as diverse as any other. As for courageous or enlightened, I think KHayes' point that it has a lot to do with how the FA lives his or her life is valid. I don't think the traits are innate, just that a courageous person is more likely to live as an FA and not worry about what other people say, same thing with enlightened. I don't think it makes you more enlightened to find fat people attractive, but to live your life honestly, without bending over backwards to conform to societal standards is a sign of enlightenment. But it's not unique to fat admirers, either. As for the empathy, I agree with Tad, we are given a great deal of opportunity to be more empathetic, but again, it's up to the individual FA whether or not he or she actually becomes more empathetic.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:19 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=Dr. P Marshall;1761038I wonder if more scientifically minded/technical people are more likely to be fat admirers or if it's just that more scientifically minded/technical fat admirers will want to analyze and think about their FAness, because that's how they approach most things, [/QUOTE]

At the risk of being flamed, let me suggest another possibility here. One of my heroes is Temple Grandin, who is an engineer and is autistic. Several times in her writings she has pointed out that a great number of engineers score high on the autism scale. To grossly oversimplify, autism involves seeing things in a different, more detailed way than most people: Dr. Grandin has said that an autistic person sees all the leaves on a tree. Most of us don't "see" what's in front of us: we categorize it as belonging to a certain concept, and we "see" our (blurry) mental picture of the concept (This is why people who are asked to draw a tree come up with something that looks like a lollipop. There is a book called Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain that discusses ways for the artist to get away from concepts and simply draw what is there; it's hard to do). We say that FA's and FFA's see the beauty in fat people that others cannot see; I wonder if a lot of them are a little further towards the autistic end of the perception spectrum* and are in fact picking up details that others ignore by reducing a fat person to a concept and not seeing what is there?

*I am aware that this is true for me.
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Old 07-26-2011, 12:47 PM   #18
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more scientifically minded/technical fat admirers will want to analyze and think about their FAness, because that's how they approach most things, they think them over and analyze them.
That is certainly true, plus the fact that sci/tech/engineering people tend to care less about what society thinks of them. In school, most of them were never the "cool kids", and they value that kind of superficial approval for exactly what it's worth (i.e. NOTHING). Hence, an FA who leans to sci/tech/eng is more likely to be an open FA, which is the main type of FA we see here. Other than that, I don't know any reason why sci/tech/eng people are more likely to be FAs.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:28 PM   #19
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That is certainly true, plus the fact that sci/tech/engineering people tend to care less about what society thinks of them. In school, most of them were never the "cool kids", and they value that kind of superficial approval for exactly what it's worth (i.e. NOTHING). Hence, an FA who leans to sci/tech/eng is more likely to be an open FA, which is the main type of FA we see here. Other than that, I don't know any reason why sci/tech/eng people are more likely to be FAs.
I don't mean this to sound rude, I may not be able to say this correctly so bear with me here. This is also just opinion its not a fact.

I believe that the sci/tech/eng boys gravitate toward bbw's because that's who they interact with on a day to day basis. On a friday night the "cool kids" are off hanging out while the non-cool kids are home watching tv or chatting online. Don't get me wrong, I know bbws that are out watching the football games or getting into trouble themselves but from what I read most of the girls in the community (opinion not fact) are the type to stay home and watch tv while chatting online. With that said, a sci/tech/eng kid will be associating with bbw's and will probably date one. Now he may not particularly like the option at first but once he starts enjoying the anatomy of a bbw he'll most likely wise up (again opinion not fact). Like I said, its not that there aren't girls who are into full contact sports and can talk the ear off a "cool kid" about it, but from what I've seen the girls around here tend to lean toward the geeky type.

I will say this though and I won't apologize for it. Just because someone is a tech nerd and someone else is a football player doesn't make him more intelligent than the other. It means they're both very good at what they do individually. The tech nerd may be able to erase viruses and change around executable files but he wouldn't know how to run a flag pattern the same way a football player can crack a cover 4 defense but has no chance in hell of installing antivirus software manually. Also, how does being good at chemistry or biology make someone more intelligent than a man who can fix cars? The true intelligent ones are the guys (and girls) that can do it all.

Anyway back to the original point. The Dr's point about how a tech nerd not caring about society is why they're F/A's is valid, I also think they became F/A's because of who was available to them in terms of friends and romantic interests.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:27 PM   #20
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At the risk of being flamed, let me suggest another possibility here. One of my heroes is Temple Grandin, who is an engineer and is autistic. Several times in her writings she has pointed out that a great number of engineers score high on the autism scale. To grossly oversimplify, autism involves seeing things in a different, more detailed way than most people: Dr. Grandin has said that an autistic person sees all the leaves on a tree. Most of us don't "see" what's in front of us: we categorize it as belonging to a certain concept, and we "see" our (blurry) mental picture of the concept (This is why people who are asked to draw a tree come up with something that looks like a lollipop. There is a book called Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain that discusses ways for the artist to get away from concepts and simply draw what is there; it's hard to do). We say that FA's and FFA's see the beauty in fat people that others cannot see; I wonder if a lot of them are a little further towards the autistic end of the perception spectrum* and are in fact picking up details that others ignore by reducing a fat person to a concept and not seeing what is there?

*I am aware that this is true for me.
I have often wondered if I am slightly autistic. I tested with a very high IQ as a child and have always had an innate ability to understand mechanical things. I didn't talk until I was almost two but when it did it was with whole sentences. I played with Legos as a child an would build complex machines of my own design and four wheel drive vehicles with working suspensions. I also have the difficulty socializing and reacting appropriately in social situations. The more I learn about the varying degrees of autism the more it seems to apply to me.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:31 PM   #21
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I don't mean this to sound rude, I may not be able to say this correctly so bear with me here. This is also just opinion its not a fact.

I believe that the sci/tech/eng boys gravitate toward bbw's because that's who they interact with on a day to day basis. On a friday night the "cool kids" are off hanging out while the non-cool kids are home watching tv or chatting online. Don't get me wrong, I know bbws that are out watching the football games or getting into trouble themselves but from what I read most of the girls in the community (opinion not fact) are the type to stay home and watch tv while chatting online. With that said, a sci/tech/eng kid will be associating with bbw's and will probably date one. Now he may not particularly like the option at first but once he starts enjoying the anatomy of a bbw he'll most likely wise up (again opinion not fact). Like I said, its not that there aren't girls who are into full contact sports and can talk the ear off a "cool kid" about it, but from what I've seen the girls around here tend to lean toward the geeky type.

I will say this though and I won't apologize for it. Just because someone is a tech nerd and someone else is a football player doesn't make him more intelligent than the other. It means they're both very good at what they do individually. The tech nerd may be able to erase viruses and change around executable files but he wouldn't know how to run a flag pattern the same way a football player can crack a cover 4 defense but has no chance in hell of installing antivirus software manually. Also, how does being good at chemistry or biology make someone more intelligent than a man who can fix cars? The true intelligent ones are the guys (and girls) that can do it all.

Anyway back to the original point. The Dr's point about how a tech nerd not caring about society is why they're F/A's is valid, I also think they became F/A's because of who was available to them in terms of friends and romantic interests.
Thank you for not wanting to sound rude. Neither do I, but you somehow read a lot of things in my post that weren't there. Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else's post. I don't recall mentioning football players, computer viruses, chemistry or biology, or anything about the superiority of "tech nerds". I don't know where you got all that. For the record, I would probably include a person who is passionate about fixing cars in the tech category.

My only point was that people who care less about society's opinion are more likely to be open about their sexual preferences.

That said, I have to disagree with your suggestion that tech nerds (or whoever we are talking about) somehow "became" FAs because they couldn't get dates with skinny women. Many FAs never wanted to date skinny women, because we felt no sexual attraction to them. Beyond that, your words strongly imply that fat women are merely a second choice after skinny women. I know you don't believe that, because it's a tremendous insult to fat women. (Re-read your post if you don't see that implication.) You might want to clarify your post.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #22
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Thank you for not wanting to sound rude. Neither do I, but you somehow read a lot of things in my post that weren't there. Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else's post. I don't recall mentioning football players, computer viruses, chemistry or biology, or anything about the superiority of "tech nerds". I don't know where you got all that. For the record, I would probably include a person who is passionate about fixing cars in the tech category.

My only point was that people who care less about society's opinion are more likely to be open about their sexual preferences.

That said, I have to disagree with your suggestion that tech nerds (or whoever we are talking about) somehow "became" FAs because they couldn't get dates with skinny women. Many FAs never wanted to date skinny women, because we felt no sexual attraction to them. Beyond that, your words strongly imply that fat women are merely a second choice after skinny women. I know you don't believe that, because it's a tremendous insult to fat women. (Re-read your post if you don't see that implication.) You might want to clarify your post.
Like I said, I didn't word it correctly. My bad
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:40 PM   #23
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This is the "damning with faint praise" bit, intended to promote the idea that an FPL is not really an FPL, that someone who acts attracted to a fat person is doing so for other reasons. One set of reasons they opine are negative, but others go to this idea of being "noble", "able to see past the fat", and all this other nonsense.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:37 PM   #24
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This is the "damning with faint praise" bit, intended to promote the idea that an FPL is not really an FPL, that someone who acts attracted to a fat person is doing so for other reasons. One set of reasons they opine are negative, but others go to this idea of being "noble", "able to see past the fat", and all this other nonsense.
Yea I've heard of this one but I've also heard the one where they say that you're "true to yourself" and make it seem as if we're somehow better than other men for liking what you like.

I mean, while it's true it's not the social norm I would think that most guys would go after what they're attracted to not what society deems as "acceptable" regardless of their preference.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:53 PM   #25
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I would think that most guys would go after what they're attracted to not what society deems as "acceptable" regardless of their preference.
Given the many discussions that have come up here about people being "in the closet" about their preferences, or the cases of full-figured women who have said that men want to date them basically "in secret," I don't think this is the case. In fact, I suspect the opposite -- that many, possibly most people are very largely governed by "what society deems as acceptable" when it comes to whom they get involved with, and that a vastly smaller minority follow their heart, especially the further away from the media/society-approved standard their inclinations take them.
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