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Old 02-04-2012, 05:22 AM   #1
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Default Double Standards

So I was watching a few rants about closet FAs on YouTube and the undeniable theme is that men need to "man up" and learn to ignore society's negative opinions. Now I will be the first to agree with this wholeheartedly, I complain often about the fact that these type of men mess things up for all of us. After a while of watching these rants I couldnt help but wonder how much of the anger and frustration I saw was actually a result of projection on the part of these women.

Maybe it's just me but does it seem like there's more pressure on men to ignore the negative opinions of others in regards to liking bigger women than there is pressure on big women to ignore the negative opinions of others? I have been the target of ire in the past from larger women because they felt that I dont do enough as far as letting my taste in women be known and the men I know with similar tastes to me have felt this as well. Im certainly not going to hide my tastes but should I be expected to "carry the flag" to a certain degree because I am so comfortable with my tastes? I personally feel that the best thing I can do for "acceptance" is to just be myself, I feel like a salesman whenever Im asked to explain my tastes in any detail.

Sorry this devolved into a semi-off topic tangent, these things happen at 7:30 AM
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:37 AM   #2
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Default Hugs!

I see your point. You should never feel obligated to fly any flag to your preferences....as preferences change anyways. I think you are doing right just by being yourself.

Ignoring hater comments are a lot easier said than done. Some people will find anything to complain about.
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
So I was watching a few rants about closet FAs on YouTube and the undeniable theme is that men need to "man up" and learn to ignore society's negative opinions. Now I will be the first to agree with this wholeheartedly, I complain often about the fact that these type of men mess things up for all of us. After a while of watching these rants I couldnt help but wonder how much of the anger and frustration I saw was actually a result of projection on the part of these women.

Maybe it's just me but does it seem like there's more pressure on men to ignore the negative opinions of others in regards to liking bigger women than there is pressure on big women to ignore the negative opinions of others? I have been the target of ire in the past from larger women because they felt that I dont do enough as far as letting my taste in women be known and the men I know with similar tastes to me have felt this as well. Im certainly not going to hide my tastes but should I be expected to "carry the flag" to a certain degree because I am so comfortable with my tastes? I personally feel that the best thing I can do for "acceptance" is to just be myself, I feel like a salesman whenever Im asked to explain my tastes in any detail.

Sorry this devolved into a semi-off topic tangent, these things happen at 7:30 AM
Interesting question. I think there is pressure on men to be alpha males in general; sexual preferences aside. A guy must have himself together and be the best at what he does and demonstrate wisdom at all times, not be weak, etc, etc. That's a lot of pressure.

But there is also pressure on all women to conform to traditional beauty standards, and any woman who doesn't is judged negatively. We aren't supposed to ignore those opinions, we are supposed to be shamed enough to do something about it, which is why so many people think fat shaming is a good weight loss tactic.

I think the amount of pressure on all of us is about even. It's just expressed in different ways and our coping skills determine how we deal with it. I suppose it just comes down to how much one cares about conforming to societies standards of typical (upper) middle class living.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:35 PM   #4
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Well I can say that back in the 1980's in high school, there was definitely the pressure to date the skinny girls early on, as if it were a rite of passage or something. So there was that peer pressure of sorts, cause you didn't DARE date a girl who was overweight, or you'd be cast into a social abyss. I'll be the first to admit that I would fall into the category of being somewhat of a coward back then because of that pressure, so back in my freshman year I usually dated skinny girls so that I'd "fit in". But I did date my first "big" girl back in my sophomore year ... and some of my so-called friends would give me shit about it ... but I realized honestly I didn't care about their opinions or my "social status" and I'd defend my choice. The funny thing is that one of my "friends" who gave me the most hell about it wound up marrying a BBW later in life, so go figure. Perhaps there were more closeted FA's out there after all.

Predominantly I have dated girls who were either BBW or at least chubby to some degree ...and I have dated some (but not many) skinny girls as well, but these were by choice, not due to pressure from society or whatever.

I don't know if there's as much pressure these days for boys & girls in high school when it comes to dating and the whole body image thing. As a nation, it's been said that the U.S. is steadily becoming more obese. I'd like to believe that there is more size acceptance out there these days, that perhaps we've progressed enough to realize not everyone fits into a particular size category, and damned if we fit into something outside of that category. Wishful thinking, perhaps?
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:36 PM   #5
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*Shrugs* I've never really had that problem. I don't really believe I have to be yelling it to the world at all times (If at all), but I don't hide the fact either. At the same time, I can be pretty private about myself in general, especially with my coworkers. But that's mainly because I don't like most of them. lol
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
So I was watching a few rants about closet FAs on YouTube and the undeniable theme is that men need to "man up" and learn to ignore society's negative opinions. Now I will be the first to agree with this wholeheartedly, I complain often about the fact that these type of men mess things up for all of us. After a while of watching these rants I couldnt help but wonder how much of the anger and frustration I saw was actually a result of projection on the part of these women.

Maybe it's just me but does it seem like there's more pressure on men to ignore the negative opinions of others in regards to liking bigger women than there is pressure on big women to ignore the negative opinions of others? I have been the target of ire in the past from larger women because they felt that I dont do enough as far as letting my taste in women be known and the men I know with similar tastes to me have felt this as well. Im certainly not going to hide my tastes but should I be expected to "carry the flag" to a certain degree because I am so comfortable with my tastes? I personally feel that the best thing I can do for "acceptance" is to just be myself, I feel like a salesman whenever Im asked to explain my tastes in any detail.

Sorry this devolved into a semi-off topic tangent, these things happen at 7:30 AM
There is kind of a difference because no one askes me to explain my fat, they just treat me like shit and charge me more for stuff. I gotta buy two seats, I have to call the restaurant in advance just to go in, I get cursed out for taking up two seats on the bus. I don't think it's a double standard. I'm fed the same lines about going out there and living my life and being who I am and I get ridicule heaped on my head for my low self esteem if I'm not wearing a bright yellow bra over it all. I don't have the liberty to psych myself out in advance and say, "Ok, i'm just going to go in there and play it off. I don't have to tell anybody shit - I'm just going to get in, get what I need, get out and not be the official spokes person for anything." Doesn't matter what color bra I'm wearing, my fat is loud and proud even if I don't want it to be front and center.

Now I'm not saying that men have to be trussed up and paraded around. I don't agree with that. Only if someone WANTS to. God love the ones who want to, but I still don't think the exasperation some people have with men who gloat about being quiet about their desires is indicative of a double standard in expectations. I think it's only indicative of the frustrations and maybe a little jealousy we have that we must survive without those options wether we like it or not.
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:14 PM   #7
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In my case, and the case of many (but not all) FAs I know of is that their attraction to fat folk is instinctual. Instinct beats out societal pressure a lot of the time.

Now, think about it here, your average fat woman has no such instincts with regards to fat. All she has the negative societal messages.

That is why this isn't a double standard. As an FA you have a inner advantage against the negative societal messages because no matter how loud those messages are, your gut tells you that you are okay and right.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #8
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. I have been the target of ire in the past from larger women because they felt that I dont do enough as far as letting my taste in women be known and the men I know with similar tastes to me have felt this as well. Im certainly not going to hide my tastes but should I be expected to "carry the flag" to a certain degree because I am so comfortable with my tastes? .
I know what you mean.
I'm married to a SSBBW and all our relatives and closer friends know that I met my wife online on a dating site for men who love fat women. I've never got negative comments from them.
But the point is, should we carry the flag for that type of women we admire so much? I think "yes", definitely FAs should. For an FA that's the best way to support size acceptance. Carrying the flag is freeing.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #9
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I dont understand why my posts keep being deleted from this thread. Can the mod please send me a response. I would much appreciate it.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #10
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I dont understand why my posts keep being deleted from this thread. Can the mod please send me a response. I would much appreciate it.
I believe it is because this forum is designated as a forum strictly for FA/FFA thoughts and perspective and nt so much a place for BBW/BHM to explain what they want from us. I gave an opinion that was asked for via the perspective of an FFA who happens to also be an SSBBW, but I didn't go into anything beyond what was asked for.

Since I'm here I may as well add something else I've been on the fence about adding. As BBW/BHM we experience a lot of things but at no time are we required to wave some sort of flag that proclaims our preferences. We might be FA, gay or straight or whatever but that's a private issue that we can express in anyway we choose. That's just sort of a given right of humanity, our sexuality is pretty much hallowed ground. This thread was never really an attempt to justify the proverbial dastardly closeted person who mistreats people. This is talking about recognized bundaries that we all share, and wether or not an FA/FFA should be required to open up those boundaries to the public for the sake of size acceptance. I don't think so. The damand for size acceptance should not come at the expense of civil liberties to any of us I don't think.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:22 PM   #11
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I think there is pressure on men to be tough and not give in, but that seems to go against the herd mentality they feed everyone the rest of the time. Nobody is allowed time to develop themselves emotionally and know who they are.

I say that FAs (and people in general) should learn to accept themselves before flying their flag publicly.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:46 PM   #12
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I believe it is because this forum is designated as a forum strictly for FA/FFA thoughts and perspective and nt so much a place for BBW/BHM to explain what they want from us. I gave an opinion that was asked for via the perspective of an FFA who happens to also be an SSBBW, but I didn't go into anything beyond what was asked for.

Since I'm here I may as well add something else I've been on the fence about adding. As BBW/BHM we experience a lot of things but at no time are we required to wave some sort of flag that proclaims our preferences. We might be FA, gay or straight or whatever but that's a private issue that we can express in anyway we choose. That's just sort of a given right of humanity, our sexuality is pretty much hallowed ground. This thread was never really an attempt to justify the proverbial dastardly closeted person who mistreats people. This is talking about recognized bundaries that we all share, and wether or not an FA/FFA should be required to open up those boundaries to the public for the sake of size acceptance. I don't think so. The damand for size acceptance should not come at the expense of civil liberties to any of us I don't think.
So because I don't out right admit that I am an FA/FFA...my posts are deleted? That just doesn't seem right to me--and whose to say who DOES and who DOESN'T fit into these categories? WHo gets to decide that--someone who does not know me personally NOR do they know my preferences? Honestly this whole separatism thing is getting ridiculous. I guess I should have studied the FFA manual a lot better so that I can earn my patch and become part of the group. OH, that's right, there ISNT A MANUAL. LAME.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:53 PM   #13
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Just in case there is any question, I love big guys, so I believe I have a right to post here... My post was deleted, too. And yet I've been saying here for 14 years that I love fat men. While I'm bi-sizual, I've been married to two men (obviously not at the same time... ) who were, and are, varying degrees of fat. I prefer a big guy/fat guy/whatever, but fat is not the deciding factor. I've seen many guys post here who are also bi-sizual, and they are not deleted and then ignored. Is there some kind of a test to take in order not to be deleted?

I think in general that there is always going to be more difficulty for the fat person than for the FA, male or female. But that doesn't mean the person's partner won't get some grief, or at the very least questioning, from others. It's always been my opinion that if a person doesn't have the courage of their preference in dating a fat person they should just stay away; it's damaging to date someone who considers you a fat, dirty secret, whether they're a male or female. I do think that, fair or not, it's more expected that yes, LQ, men be open and not hide when dating a fat woman than the other way around.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:01 PM   #14
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.................................

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Old 02-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #15
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So because I don't out right admit that I am an FA/FFA...my posts are deleted? That just doesn't seem right to me--and whose to say who DOES and who DOESN'T fit into these categories? WHo gets to decide that--someone who does not know me personally NOR do they know my preferences? Honestly this whole separatism thing is getting ridiculous. I guess I should have studied the FFA manual a lot better so that I can earn my patch and become part of the group. OH, that's right, there ISNT A MANUAL. LAME.
I'm not a Mod so I don't really know. I was just guessing. Honestly I have no idea what the rules are anymore around here - this whole place appears booby trapped with trick words, trap doors, secret bannings, timeouts.... I don't know what the hell's going on. I just try to be polite and lay low.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:17 PM   #16
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As a BBW I am fat on sight. I don't have to do anything to reveal my fatness, and can't hide it, or keep it within my circle of trusted friends. I am publicly fat. My fat is my flag.

As an FFA, no one knows if I don't open my mouth and say, Hey I LOVE fat men, or....I'm obviously with one in public. An FA has a choice. A fat person does not. There is no double standard. I'm not discounting the pain of an FA/FFA and their own struggles, but it's not the same thing and probably because of my experiences of being abused, bullied, dismissed, discriminated against, etc. by my very existence, I have a very low tolerance level for people who are attracted to fat people yet want to remain undercover.

You can choose to fly your flag. BBWs (and BHMs for that matter) don't have that choice.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:45 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Orange Mage View Post
As an FA you have a inner advantage against the negative societal messages because no matter how loud those messages are, your gut tells you that you are okay and right.
That's not usually how it plays out in one's mind though. As men we are conditioned to and expected to be attracted to a certain type of female. How do you think it feels when you realize that not only do most people think you're weird/gross for your tastes but a good portion of those you're attracted to think you're weird/gross for being attracted to them? People don't usually "hide" something they're not ashamed of, if it were so easy as to be able to just listen to and follow our instincts then bigger women wouldnt be complaining about men being cowards and we'd all be happier.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:53 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CastingPearls View Post
As a BBW I am fat on sight. I don't have to do anything to reveal my fatness, and can't hide it, or keep it within my circle of trusted friends. I am publicly fat. My fat is my flag.

As an FFA, no one knows if I don't open my mouth and say, Hey I LOVE fat men, or....I'm obviously with one in public. An FA has a choice. A fat person does not. There is no double standard. I'm not discounting the pain of an FA/FFA and their own struggles, but it's not the same thing and probably because of my experiences of being abused, bullied, dismissed, discriminated against, etc. by my very existence, I have a very low tolerance level for people who are attracted to fat people yet want to remain undercover.

You can choose to fly your flag. BBWs (and BHMs for that matter) don't have that choice.
I never wanted to imply that what male FAs deal with is worse, that's obviously not true. What I was referring to was pressure to increase acceptance of big people and ignore the negativity of our society.
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Last edited by LordQuas; 02-06-2012 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
So I was watching a few rants about closet FAs on YouTube and the undeniable theme is that men need to "man up" and learn to ignore society's negative opinions. Now I will be the first to agree with this wholeheartedly, I complain often about the fact that these type of men mess things up for all of us. After a while of watching these rants I couldnt help but wonder how much of the anger and frustration I saw was actually a result of projection on the part of these women.

The whole idea of "hiding" one's preferences has become so "foreign" to me, I find it hard to understand. Yet I remember as a young man in my teens I was steered by "peer pressure" to date "average sized" women. There came a time when I had to, "To mine own self be true". I had to admit I adored women that were fat! Perhaps that's a failure to sugar coat it, but hey! It is what it is.

I unabashedly dated women who were not average in any way. . Not just their weight. . At the end of the day, physical attraction is wonderful, but there's nothing better than having someone who shares some of your interests, loves to talk with you not just to you. . Someone who "has it together" themselves. . Someone you want to "be" around every moment of the day and night. .

Life in general is a risk, a calculated risk sometimes, but a risk none the less. Love and physical attraction between two people is even more risky. . Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. . But hell, how will you ever know until you take the first step? I can't tell you how many times you have to try before it clicks. . if it ever does. . but I'd rather have tried and failed than to sit around and wonder. .. . "The saddest words of tongue or pen are these few words What Might Have Been"!

I took a serious chance and ended up having over 20 years with one of the most beautiful SSBBW in the world (in my humble opinion) So guys, if it's the term "man up", "be a stand up guy", or whatever euphemistic saying is "in" right now. . I say you'll never know until you try it!!

But on the other hand, life is a game of give and take. . Sometimes it seems like someone just gives and the other just takes. . Don't fall into that trap!! As you are given, give in return. . that goes for men and women alike. .Sometimes the most beautiful things come in less than perfect packaging! I know I'm an average looking guy at best, and was so very blessed with the unfailing love of someone. . I don't know how I got so lucky, but had I not been willing to "try". . I never would have!! Besides, people are going to talk about you no matter what you do. . so make sure you're enjoying yourself in the process. .
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:08 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LifeTraveller View Post
The whole idea of "hiding" one's preferences has become so "foreign" to me, I find it hard to understand. Yet I remember as a young man in my teens I was steered by "peer pressure" to date "average sized" women. There came a time when I had to, "To mine own self be true". I had to admit I adored women that were fat! Perhaps that's a failure to sugar coat it, but hey! It is what it is.

I unabashedly dated women who were not average in any way. . Not just their weight. . At the end of the day, physical attraction is wonderful, but there's nothing better than having someone who shares some of your interests, loves to talk with you not just to you. . Someone who "has it together" themselves. . Someone you want to "be" around every moment of the day and night. .

Life in general is a risk, a calculated risk sometimes, but a risk none the less. Love and physical attraction between two people is even more risky. . Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. . But hell, how will you ever know until you take the first step? I can't tell you how many times you have to try before it clicks. . if it ever does. . but I'd rather have tried and failed than to sit around and wonder. .. . "The saddest words of tongue or pen are these few words What Might Have Been"!

I took a serious chance and ended up having over 20 years with one of the most beautiful SSBBW in the world (in my humble opinion) So guys, if it's the term "man up", "be a stand up guy", or whatever euphemistic saying is "in" right now. . I say you'll never know until you try it!!

But on the other hand, life is a game of give and take. . Sometimes it seems like someone just gives and the other just takes. . Don't fall into that trap!! As you are given, give in return. . that goes for men and women alike. .Sometimes the most beautiful things come in less than perfect packaging! I know I'm an average looking guy at best, and was so very blessed with the unfailing love of someone. . I don't know how I got so lucky, but had I not been willing to "try". . I never would have!! Besides, people are going to talk about you no matter what you do. . so make sure you're enjoying yourself in the process. .
I love that saying. Can I steal it?
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
That's not usually how it plays out in one's mind though. As men we are conditioned to and expected to be attracted to a certain type of female. How do you think it feels when you realize that not only do most people think you're weird/gross for your tastes but a good portion of those you're attracted to think you're weird/gross for being attracted to them? People don't usually "hide" something they're not ashamed of, if it were so easy as to be able to just listen to and follow our instincts then bigger women wouldnt be complaining about men being cowards and we'd all be happier.
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
I never wanted to imply that what male FAs deal with is worse, that's obviously not true. What I was referring to was pressure to increase acceptance of big people and ignore the negativity of our society.
There will always be negativity about something, though, no? It is a whole different dynamic to be fat than it is to love fat people, though. Since you framed it this way in your original post, I will answer thusly:

As a fat woman, and before that a fat girl, I got grief from everyone -- even my family. Name-calling, marginalization, discrimination -- all this even as a child. Growing up I was always different, and not in a good way. I thought I was a hideous troll, but as I got older and decided to look at myself differently and start loving not just who I am but how I look, I was able to see that I was actually beautiful all those years I thought I was hideous. Fat body and all, I was beautiful.

So, the first time I was dating a guy who I came to see, in fairly short order, considered me his fat, dirty secret, I dropped him. It brought back to me all of the old feelings of being Other, of being unacceptable, ugly, unworthy and more. I determined that I would never again date someone who couldn't hold my hand or kiss me in public; who wouldn't stick up for me with his family and friends, or co-workers. I see those who use fat people sexually but will not own up to their preference to be cowards. Saying that word got me in trouble here, but after the way it made me feel about myself, I make no apologies. So, when you talk about how if men get a hard time for not ignoring the hard time they get for their preference then fat women should be treated equivalently, I say it's a different dynamic entirely. As I mentioned in my first post, which no longer exists, as a fat woman, no one has ever said anything to me about the fat men I have dated and married. But that's because I'm already considered to be socially unacceptable, and those who are fat bigots think us fat people all belong together so that we don't 'pollute' thin people. A fat guy gets less grief for dating a fat woman, just like the obverse is true. But a thin man dating a fat woman, or a thin woman dating a fat man -- or mix it up, depending on the person's orientation, if s/he is to be truly supportive, must stand up for their preference, because of the social currency that thinness carries. Their hiding, their shame, can do more damage socially. Though to the heart of the fat person, it's not the size of the one who is ashamed of them that hurts, it's the shame.

So if you really care for that fat person you're dating or are married to ("you" being the general you), then be out about it, and try to understand that it will be more difficult, and might take longer, for the fat person you care for and/or love to reach that same acceptance and bravado for themselves.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:42 PM   #22
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I love that saying. Can I steal it?
Anytime Lily!
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
That's not usually how it plays out in one's mind though. As men we are conditioned to and expected to be attracted to a certain type of female. How do you think it feels when you realize that not only do most people think you're weird/gross for your tastes but a good portion of those you're attracted to think you're weird/gross for being attracted to them? People don't usually "hide" something they're not ashamed of, if it were so easy as to be able to just listen to and follow our instincts then bigger women wouldnt be complaining about men being cowards and we'd all be happier.
The same way it must feel to be considered the gross thing. It sucks. As to the fat women who also think you are gross, consider that well, even skinny women have body issues. Guys who date skinny women just consider it a given that their woman probably isn't confident all the time and that if they say anything to indicate that their girl is less than beautiful they will be sleeping on the couch. A lot of women no matter the size just don't understand why their significant others like them or find them beautiful and will ask "what do you want to be with me for?" Or there are women who are considered highly attractive by society's standards but who aren't smart or interesting and might think that the only reason a guy is with them is for their looks and they might have disdain for a guy for that and would ask "what do you want to be with me for? We have nothing to talk about?"

There are fat girls who don't dislike their bodies entirely, and who will think there's nothing wrong with you. It's not impossible. Difficult yes, but not impossible. If you keep meeting fat girls who think there is something wrong with you then move on. That girl is not for you. We have to do the same. It's hard sometimes, but that's just what you have to do to maintain some sanity.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CastingPearls View Post
*snipped*
As an FFA, no one knows if I don't open my mouth and say, Hey I LOVE fat men, or....I'm obviously with one in public. An FA has a choice. A fat person does not. There is no double standard. I'm not discounting the pain of an FA/FFA and their own struggles, but it's not the same thing and probably because of my experiences of being abused, bullied, dismissed, discriminated against, etc. by my very existence, I have a very low tolerance level for people who are attracted to fat people yet want to remain undercover.

You can choose to fly your flag. BBWs (and BHMs for that matter) don't have that choice.
This is pretty much the exact same thing that I said in a post that got deleted.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:55 PM   #25
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The same way it must feel to be considered the gross thing. It sucks. As to the fat women who also think you are gross, consider that well, even skinny women have body issues. Guys who date skinny women just consider it a given that their woman probably isn't confident all the time and that if they say anything to indicate that their girl is less than beautiful they will be sleeping on the couch. A lot of women no matter the size just don't understand why their significant others like them or find them beautiful and will ask "what do you want to be with me for?" Or there are women who are considered highly attractive by society's standards but who aren't smart or interesting and might think that the only reason a guy is with them is for their looks and they might have disdain for a guy for that and would ask "what do you want to be with me for? We have nothing to talk about?"

There are fat girls who don't dislike their bodies entirely, and who will think there's nothing wrong with you. It's not impossible. Difficult yes, but not impossible. If you keep meeting fat girls who think there is something wrong with you then move on. That girl is not for you. We have to do the same. It's hard sometimes, but that's just what you have to do to maintain some sanity.
For the record it may not seem like it but I am in an extremely successful relationship. Even when single I felt pretty good about my dating life because I have a clear idea of what I want and need in a relationship and feel like Im good at realizing when Im just not compatible with someone.
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