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Old 02-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
I never wanted to imply that what male FAs deal with is worse, that's obviously not true. What I was referring to was pressure to increase acceptance of big people and ignore the negativity of our society.
I wasn't making an assumption that you made an inference.

Re the last sentence of your response: Allow me to pose it to you this way--what do you see as your alternatives?



You (general 'you') must decide as an individual where you make a stand. If you make no stand, you've still made a decision, haven't you? Silence speaks volumes but to what end? To what purpose does THAT serve? These are questions I ask you to ask yourself. You owe me nothing. Do you owe something to that woman you're with, though? (I would not deny or even evade the question if someone point blank commented or asked me if I was into fat guys).
Sometimes that stand depends on your personality, or how strong you feel about your convictions, and not just convictions about the unfairness of how society/culture behave toward people based on appearance, but also your own convictions about how YOU behave or respond toward it, ie; violence vs non-violence (I know some who feel harsh words qualify as violence). You (general 'you') can't control how someone behaves, for the most part. However, you can control how you behave and respond. Sometimes ignoring pressure is safer. Sometimes, it's cowardly. I respond from TWO angles. As a BBW who experiences much of what I've mentioned upthread, every time I walk out the door, I sometimes act reflexively and lash out, sometimes I take an opportunity to educate someone if I think there's the possibility to, I choose my battles and the hills I choose to die on. As an FFA, to me, perhaps because I see it from both sides, there is no comparison. I still don't believe there is a double standard because you are not forced to 'fly your flag' You have a choice. I also urge you to not take points that challenge yours personally because this discussion is valid, and we all often have something to learn even from opposing viewpoints.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:59 PM   #27
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Not much of a double standard really.

You see, as mentioned previously by others, people can't hide being fat. They can't hide being fat and in general they will be discriminated against it because society places a value on fat. If they're fat, they're considered to be "lazy," "gluttonous," and in general a weaker person, regardless of if that is true or not.

As FAs we can hide that. We don't have to deal with it if we don't want to so because of that we aren't discriminated against (as if there's really that much of a pressure) or pressured as much. Now, if an individual wants to date a fat person, they should be out about it. The women/man has to deal with being discriminated against and treated bad because of their size and we don't have to, unless we're fat. So, the least a person can do (if they're going to date a fat person) is to be out about it since a fat person has to deal with stigma all the time. More importantly, flaunt it and don't be ashamed of it. Not only does a partner deserve to not be treated as a forbidden secret but it can help a lover feel secure in knowing that you care for them and aren't ashamed, obviously.

Now, if people aren't going to be out about it, fine. As others have stated, there's no point living to please people because they'll never please everyone. So live your life and if someone takes an issue with it, flip them the bird and tell them to take a long walk off a short pier.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:39 AM   #28
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I'm not sure I agree that FAs do not get discriminated against; they do, just not in the same way, and only if they choose to make their preference known. What I mean by that is that sure, if you're out and about and not with your fat gf or bf, no one knows unless you make it known, so no discrimination. But I've written in these parts before about my ex-husband, whose co-workers would try to set him up with thin women (!!) because they couldn't 'get' what he saw in me. I'm sure that it's absolutely possible that society thinks less of those thin people who love fat people, male or female, and find them to be sick or defective. There is probably some outright discrimination, but I'm guessing that most of it is quiet discrimination.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #29
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You (general 'you') must decide as an individual where you make a stand. If you make no stand, you've still made a decision, haven't you?
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice, if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear, I will chose freewill.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #30
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It seems that some continue to be confused about the purpose and rules of this particular forum. It is a protected forum that was established to let FAs discuss their issues without being lectured, just as the BBW forum was created as a safe venue for BBWs to discuss their issues.

So while it's okay for a BBW who can honestly claim to be a real FA to come in here and post on her genuine FA side, it is NOT okay to come in here to lecture FAs, claiming FA status.

Please do respect this rule. Else, posts do disappear.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:25 PM   #31
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I have much that I can contribute to this thread and this particular forum, but I have chosen not to say much since July of 2011, because I found myself in a similar situation with regard to posting in the BBW forum, when the thread I posted in clearly didn't state that the responses should be women ONLY.

A little anecdote. I had 12 years of Catholic education. When I got to 7th and 8th grades, we would have dances, and the nuns would line the boys up on one side of the gym, and the girls on the other. Each group would kinda hang out in a cluster, and occasionally yell something out that the other group would hear, and when people from the opposite group would begin to yell back or interact, the nuns would rush in to separate us. We never danced much, come to think of it, and it affected a lot of people when they got to high school, since they hadn't learned enough about the opposite sex because of the lack of interaction, and almost mystification of each other.

But hey, if it works for you guys..................
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:51 PM   #32
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I understand what you are talking about. The other thing I would like to remind everyone about is that there is the Lounge to interact in, for fun and goofiness, the Main Dimensions board for everything fat related, Fat Sexuality and all the other sub-forums to express and learn about the opposite sex and other members of the forums. A protected forum is a delicate balance. Sometimes feelings can get hurt, and someone who does have an opinion and expresses it well, may still not fall within what is appropriate for the forum. That happens on both the FA and BBW forum. I would strongly suggest that the FA/FFAs use this forum for its intended purpose and get as much out of it as possible. I read as much as I can and find it fascinating when a good healthy exchange goes on and people learn. This is really a chance for the proud and out loud FAs and FFAs to support those coming to terms with things and for those same Fledgling FAs to be guided past the misconceptions and stumbling blocks we all come across. People who follow what is considered the normal path learn how to interact and society tells them mostly how to conduct themselves. This is one of the venues for our newbies to explore. Thanks for letting me say my say.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by CastingPearls View Post
I wasn't making an assumption that you made an inference.

Re the last sentence of your response: Allow me to pose it to you this way--what do you see as your alternatives?



You (general 'you') must decide as an individual where you make a stand. If you make no stand, you've still made a decision, haven't you? Silence speaks volumes but to what end? To what purpose does THAT serve? These are questions I ask you to ask yourself. You owe me nothing. Do you owe something to that woman you're with, though? (I would not deny or even evade the question if someone point blank commented or asked me if I was into fat guys).
Sometimes that stand depends on your personality, or how strong you feel about your convictions, and not just convictions about the unfairness of how society/culture behave toward people based on appearance, but also your own convictions about how YOU behave or respond toward it, ie; violence vs non-violence (I know some who feel harsh words qualify as violence). You (general 'you') can't control how someone behaves, for the most part. However, you can control how you behave and respond. Sometimes ignoring pressure is safer. Sometimes, it's cowardly. I respond from TWO angles. As a BBW who experiences much of what I've mentioned upthread, every time I walk out the door, I sometimes act reflexively and lash out, sometimes I take an opportunity to educate someone if I think there's the possibility to, I choose my battles and the hills I choose to die on. As an FFA, to me, perhaps because I see it from both sides, there is no comparison. I still don't believe there is a double standard because you are not forced to 'fly your flag' You have a choice. I also urge you to not take points that challenge yours personally because this discussion is valid, and we all often have something to learn even from opposing viewpoints.
I would argue that the fact that you are a BBW makes it impossible for you to really see this from both sides just as it's impossible for me to see both sides since I have never been anything but skinny. Also, I think it's unfair to label my decision to not make a big deal about my tastes as "silence" because I feel like that implies that I never make any effort to defend myself or discuss the topic.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #34
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I would argue that the fact that you are a BBW makes it impossible for you to really see this from both sides just as it's impossible for me to see both sides since I have never been anything but skinny. Also, I think it's unfair to label my decision to not make a big deal about my tastes as "silence" because I feel like that implies that I never make any effort to defend myself or discuss the topic.
But you didn't POSE the question specifically to people who have been fat then thin or vice versa and your pool has now shrunk considerably if that's a criteria.

How could neither you nor I NOT possibly see this from BOTH sides since we are BOTH into fat people? I'm not being facetious here, I truly don't understand--do you want only fat FAs to comment? thin FFAs to comment? BHMs that are into thin FFAs to comment? Would you, for the sake of clarity please define your criteria?

As far as your decision--you've posted elsewhere and eloquently, I might add, about how you've struggled with what to say and I made it VERY clear and NOT sarcastically at all that it that you meant 'general you', and not LordQuas. We keep trying to stay on-topic and this is the third time you've complained that people are making imaginary inferences. If you keep jumping to so many conclusions and assumptions about inferences you're going to end up with a concussion. Isn't this about the bigger picture and not you or is this really about you because you're taking this very personally, IMO and it's not necessary. I DON'T CONDEMN YOU. I'm trying to relate to you.

I think I further explained and if not, then I will here now, that we pick and choose our battles. And it's up to us, our conscious, to know whether or not we can live with those choices without regret, remorse or guilt--should it be lashing out, speaking calmly or walking away and being silent.

I don't think it's easy for FAs by a long shot. I USED to think that anyone closeted was an unmitigated coward until I had lengthy conversations with several (some of whom are women) whose integrity is unquestionable and they say it's a process for them and now I believe that's entirely possible. I've learned a great deal from opposing viewpoints and have adjusted my own several times, here on Dims for all to see, so this really isn't a we vs them thing, unless that's your intention. Is it?
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:20 AM   #35
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But you didn't POSE the question specifically to people who have been fat then thin or vice versa and your pool has now shrunk considerably if that's a criteria.

How could neither you nor I NOT possibly see this from BOTH sides since we are BOTH into fat people? I'm not being facetious here, I truly don't understand--do you want only fat FAs to comment? thin FFAs to comment? BHMs that are into thin FFAs to comment? Would you, for the sake of clarity please define your criteria?

As far as your decision--you've posted elsewhere and eloquently, I might add, about how you've struggled with what to say and I made it VERY clear and NOT sarcastically at all that it that you meant 'general you', and not LordQuas. We keep trying to stay on-topic and this is the third time you've complained that people are making imaginary inferences. If you keep jumping to so many conclusions and assumptions about inferences you're going to end up with a concussion. Isn't this about the bigger picture and not you or is this really about you because you're taking this very personally, IMO and it's not necessary. I DON'T CONDEMN YOU. I'm trying to relate to you.

I think I further explained and if not, then I will here now, that we pick and choose our battles. And it's up to us, our conscious, to know whether or not we can live with those choices without regret, remorse or guilt--should it be lashing out, speaking calmly or walking away and being silent.

I don't think it's easy for FAs by a long shot. I USED to think that anyone closeted was an unmitigated coward until I had lengthy conversations with several (some of whom are women) whose integrity is unquestionable and they say it's a process for them and now I believe that's entirely possible. I've learned a great deal from opposing viewpoints and have adjusted my own several times, here on Dims for all to see, so this really isn't a we vs them thing, unless that's your intention. Is it?
You feel like you're trying to relate, I feel like you're attacking me. I say people jump to conclusions about me, you say I jump to conclusions about what people think of me. Perception is reality and it's clear to me that we see things from two completely different perspectives and while I dont think there's anything wrong with it we clearly aren't going to get much out of going back and forth. I obviously suck at getting my point across because I feel misinterpreted all the time. And I loathe saying that because it makes me sound like some rebellious teenager talking about how the world doesnt understand them because they listen to Nirvana and Garbage. But clearly I don't fit in a place like Dims and that's okay, I need to be on the internet less anyways.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:03 PM   #36
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You know, I don't think everyone misinterprets you all the time, or that it's a reason to leave Dims or message boards. It is definitely true that it's harder to communicate on boards than it is IRL, usually. We miss inflection of voice and cues from facial expressions that might normally let us know when someone is being light-hearted, or when they're angry, etc.

It's possible you didn't communicate as well as you would like; I know I am not certain I fully understand what you're getting at. IMO that's just a reason to try to make sure you're being clear in posting, and then if most seem to understand you but a few just don't get it, it's not you, it's them. I just think that closing up and isolating is not the answer.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:40 PM   #37
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Just kind of an addendum.

After this thread I went over to the main board and saw a post by you and the attendant kind of negative discussion. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that maybe you post giving kind of a rough idea of what you're wanting to discuss, thinking that you know what you mean. But maybe others don't, because the few thread-starting posts I've read of yours don't seem fleshed out enough, so that it's hard to know exactly what you're getting at. I don't post here as much as I used to, so I don't really know you or your intentions, so please don't think I'm commenting on you personally, I'm not, just more on the misunderstandings that seem to happen.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:48 AM   #38
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Just kind of an addendum.

After this thread I went over to the main board and saw a post by you and the attendant kind of negative discussion. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that maybe you post giving kind of a rough idea of what you're wanting to discuss, thinking that you know what you mean. But maybe others don't, because the few thread-starting posts I've read of yours don't seem fleshed out enough, so that it's hard to know exactly what you're getting at. I don't post here as much as I used to, so I don't really know you or your intentions, so please don't think I'm commenting on you personally, I'm not, just more on the misunderstandings that seem to happen.
When I make threads like this I want to spark discussion so I purposely don't fill in some details hoping it will provide a jump off for a discussion. So in that sense I am fully expecting and hoping to have people who don't interpret a question the same way as me, whats the point of having a discussion if everyone has the same view as you? What I get annoyed with is when people assume that I ask these questions out of insecurity or some sort of unhappiness when I genuinely just like talking about stuff. And I know not everyone or even a majority of people do this but it's just frustrating because it seems to be a running theme in my life and I don't know how to stop it. I really just think I'm bad at expressing myself clearly and I'm okay with that for the most part, I just don't like being attacked like any normal person and I feel like some members of this forum attack someone when they don't understand them. I really appreciate your posts though, I need to be told when Im being rash and/or overly dramatic.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:04 PM   #39
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LQ, elucidating doesn't mean that you're trying to get people to agree with you, but more, to understand you. What will happen, and may already be happening, is that when you're not clear you'll get more discussion about your style, or what people perceive (because they don't understand), than the subject you're actually wanting to talk about.

People can disagree vehemently with you, but at least if they know what it is you're trying to say, or your purpose, you'll likely be discussing that which you actually *want* to discuss, instead of having meta discussions.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by LordQuas View Post
When I make threads like this I want to spark discussion so I purposely don't fill in some details hoping it will provide a jump off for a discussion. Then why are you frustrated by another's frustration that they don't understand when you know you're specifically leaving information out--not giving us the whole picture and then blaming participants for a normal reaction. Are we some sort of social experiment to you? So in that sense I am fully expecting and hoping to have people who don't interpret a question the same way as me, whats the point of having a discussion if everyone has the same view as you? What's the point of a discussion if the person posing an incomplete question will counter that dissension is personal attack? What I get annoyed with is when people assume that I ask these questions out of insecurity or some sort of unhappiness when I genuinely just like talking about stuff. Anyone who posts here likes talking about stuff. How many times does someone have to explain they're not attacking you personally. Your taking it personally is on you, not them especially when you've deliberately skewed the question in order to provoke a response. And I know not everyone or even a majority of people do this but it's just frustrating because it seems to be a running theme in my life and I don't know how to stop it.I submit that this would indicate that it really IS you. And I'm sorry about that but you might want to look into that. I really just think I'm bad at expressing myself clearly and I'm okay with that for the most part,You don't seem to be okay because you open threads and then when someone misunderstands you or needs more information, you hide behind 'I'm being attacked' and it gives people a sense that you're trolling. Also, if you're really okay with that, why do you keep complaining and posing more threads and deliberately leave out pertinent information? I just don't like being attacked like any normal person Normal is subjective. Again, if you consider dissent as attack, that is on you. and I feel like some members of this forum attack someone when they don't understand them. This is circular arguing because people have made efforts to communicate that they're not attacking you and your insistence that they are, although they're saying they're trying to engage in the thread, seems IMO to be a very convenient thing to run behind whenever you're asked to be accountable for your words. You're too smart to go through life behaving like a victim. I really appreciate your posts though, I need to be told when Im being rash and/or overly dramatic.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:24 PM   #41
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Our dear linguistic ancestors the Romans have a proverb: Nomen est omen.


verquast | verquaster | am verquasteten

verquast [Austrian/ Southern German] for

half-baked {adj} [coll.]
garbled {adj}
mixed-up {adj}

see: http://www.dict.cc/?s=verquast


Sorry for the etymological prank, but I couldn't resist after reading through this thread!
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:37 PM   #42
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I don't think its a double standard... I think it is just a different experience.
When it is a mixed (fat-thin) couple there are going to be some issues that you just cannot relate to because you are not in that group.
I have dated fat guys who were NOT ok with their fatness and I think it was helpful for them to be around me because I am so pro-fat and loved their bellies etc.
I cannot tell you exactly what anyone should do re: hostility towards a partner
all I can say is I imagine if you care for any person in a minority,oppressed,or misunderstood group that out of love for them you become a sort of activist.
You love that person and you want them to have the best life you can.
I personally am not able to sit idle when I hear someone say something negative about a group especially when someone I love belongs to that group..
if it's a family member friend or lover whatever...natural protectiveness I guess mixed with ability to see through misconceptions about that group.
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