The Merged Thread About Trayvon Martin

[Mathias]

This entire case and how it was handled by Florida police is sickening. Details developing show that in his final phonecall to his girlfriend Martin was worried that Zimmerman had been following him. His girlfriend pleaded for him to go home.

Bernjamin Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, says a 16-year-old girlfriend in Miami was on the phone with Trayvon at the time of the altercation and heard much of the confrontation between the black teen and George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who claims he killed him in self-defense

More details of Martin's phonecall below.

Update at 12:36 p.m. ET: "What Zimmerman said is completely contradicted by the phone log," says Crump.

He also says voice experts are running through the 911 tapes to see who was yelling for help.

"The dots have all been connected, arrest George Zimmerman for the killing of Trayvon Martin in cold blood today," the lawyer says.

Update at 12:32 p.m. ET: "This claim that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor is preposterous and cannot be allowed to stand," Crump says.

"That is what Zimmerman wants you to believe so he can justifiy killing this kid in cold blood," he says.

Update at 12:27 p.m. ET: Crump says the two teens had been talking most of the day and that the last call began at 7:12 p.m. He said the police, who had been called by Zimmerman, arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m.

A 911 call from a neighbor includes someone shouting "help" and the sound of a gunshot. The girl did not hear this part of the confrontation, says Crump, because the phone had been knocked out.

But Crump says three witnesses have come forward to say that it was Trayvon's voice yelling "help" just before the shooting.

Update at 12:23 p.m. ET: Crump, relaying the girl's description of the conversation with Trayvon as the confrontation heats up, says, "She hears other voice, 'what are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?'" At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

"She hears the altercation, suddenly, someone just hit the phone, because that's the last she hears," Crump says.

Update at 12:18 p.m. ET: According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."

Update at 12: 17 p.m. ET: Crump: "She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home.'"

Update at 12:15 p.m. ET: The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes her as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store Feb. 26 and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."

Update at 12:10 p.m. ET: Crump, the lawyer for the Martin family, says Trayvon had been on the phone with his girlfriend most of the day, including his walk to a 7-11 and back, as the confrontation unfolded.

He says the unidentified girl was "traumatized" by what she heard and had to be hospitalized.

"She couldn't even go to his wake, she was so sick. She spent the night in the hospital," Crump says. "She is traumatized beyond anything you could imagine."

Update at 12:08 p.m. ET: Crump says Trayvon was speaking with a 16-year-old girlfriend who was in Miami. He says the last called lasted for four minutes during his confrontation with George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic and the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed the boy in what he claimed was self-defense.

Update at 12:06 p.m. ET: Benjamin Crump, attorney for the Martin family, says the teenager's family "does not trust the Sanford police department in anything they do with the investigation."

Update at 11:21 a.m. ET: The Seminole County grand jury will take up the case April 10, according to a statement by State Attorney Norm Wolfinger.

He said that his office, with the help of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, is reviewing and collecting evidence in the case.

"I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process moves forward," the statement said.

Via USA TODAY

There are also alleged reports that the shooter was an avid 911 caller within the neighborhood.

My question is, if it was self defense as Zimmerman claimed, why has he still not been arrested so that if it was indeed self defense, a jury can claim that? I expect more to happen now that Federal Authorities are becoming involved with this case.

[Fat Brian]

Mr. Zimmerman reminds me a lot of my father in law, a small and insignificant nut who uses the power of the police and possession of a gun to intimidate others. Hopefully with the feds involved justice will be done.

[KittyKitten]

Thank you for posting this thread, Mathias. This case has me fuming. For I have a younger brother who is 19 years old and it strikes home to my heart. Idiots can't go around shooting people because 'they look suspicious'. The nutjob didn't sound at all 'scared' when listening to the 911 tapes. They have so much evidence to convict this guy and the police really messed it up. From various sources, this was a good kid that died for nothing.

[bigmac]

If Trayvon's killer goes free blame the National Rifle Association which successfully lobbied for the 2005 Florida law that basically legalizes the killing of young black men. The law allows people to shoot anyone who they feel is threatening them. And we all know how scared many people are of young black men.


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ur-ground-law/


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...w-in-spotlight


http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/edit...cle1220845.ece

The Tampa Bay Times article summarizes things well when they wrote "it is the 'stand your ground' law that gives legal immunity to people who come to an argument with a hot temper and a ready gun."

[DELIMAN092262]

I think George Zimmerman may soon be a long-term guest of the state of Florida. He was a neighborhood watch volunteer. Not a police officer.

In every other location that I have heard about, the role of the volunteer is to OBSERVE. If contact is made it should be by a police officer.

It hardly seems like self-defense when you confront someone. Zimmerman put himself in that position.

It seems like Zimmerman decided to take the law into his own hands. Judge, jury and finally executioner.

Originally Posted by bigmac

If Trayvon's killer goes free blame the National Rifle Association which successfully lobbied for the 2005 Florida law that basically legalizes the killing of young black men. The law allows people to shoot anyone who they feel is threatening them. And we all know how scared many people are of young black men.


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ur-ground-law/


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...w-in-spotlight


http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/edit...cle1220845.ece

The Tampa Bay Times article summarizes things well when they wrote "it is the 'stand your ground' law that gives legal immunity to people who come to an argument with a hot temper and a ready gun."

It is not the gun law that is the problem. The police were well aware of Zimmerman's activities. They should have made it crystal clear to him what was expected of him. Just what he could do and more importantly what he could not do. The police should have never let him play “cop.”

The police department may soon face a civil trial. What did they know about Zimmerman and how did they let him get out of their control.

[Miss Vickie]

Zimmerman should have done what the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him to do, which was to stop following Travyvon. He didn't, continued to follow the kid, and eventually killed him, for the so called "crime" of being somewhere that Zimmerman didn't want him.

His actions make me sick. And the Florida police department's response to the event makes me even sicker.

[furious styles]

this is disgusting and needs to be resolved before i lose even more faith in our justice system. some things it seems never change.

[Deven]

Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262

I think George Zimmerman may soon be a long-term guest of the state of Florida. He was a neighborhood watch volunteer. Not a police officer.

In every other location that I have heard about, the role of the volunteer is to OBSERVE. If contact is made it should be by a police officer.

It hardly seems like self-defense when you confront someone. Zimmerman put himself in that position.

It seems like Zimmerman decided to take the law into his own hands. Judge, jury and finally executioner.



It is not the gun law that is the problem. The police were well aware of Zimmerman's activities. They should have made it crystal clear to him what was expected of him. Just what he could do and more importantly what he could not do. The police should have never let him play “cop.”

The police department may soon face a civil trial. What did they know about Zimmerman and how did they let him get out of their control.

I swore not to engage you, but in this instance, I believe you are 100% correct. Zimmerman assaulted a police officer in 2005 and has had several arrests. The public outcry will eventually get him locked away, along with the girlfriend on the phone's testimony, and the testimony of the 911 operator. The kid was carrying a can of iced tea and a bag of skittles...he was soooo dangerous.

I know that the family loss' is terrible, but they have every right to sue, and sue they should. That kid's final moments must have been sheer terror.

Even though this kid was killed, I also stand by the right to bear arms. It's not guns that kill people; it's people that kill people. I am very well trained and armed, and I've only EVER pointed my weapon at a human being ONCE. I highlighted what Deli said because that is probably the most valid point I've ever seen him make. Very well said, Deli.

[Rojodi]

Originally Posted by DevenDoom

I swore not to engage you, but in this instance, I believe you are 100% correct. Zimmerman assaulted a police officer in 2005 and has had several arrests. The public outcry will eventually get him locked away, along with the girlfriend on the phone's testimony, and the testimony of the 911 operator. The kid was carrying a can of iced tea and a bag of skittles...he was soooo dangerous.

I know that the family loss' is terrible, but they have every right to sue, and sue they should. That kid's final moments must have been sheer terror.

Even though this kid was killed, I also stand by the right to bear arms. It's not guns that kill people; it's people that kill people. I am very well trained and armed, and I've only EVER pointed my weapon at a human being ONCE. I highlighted what Deli said because that is probably the most valid point I've ever seen him make. Very well said, Deli.

Why was Zimmerman allowed to carry a gun? Isn't assaulting a police officer a felony, which means he loses the right to carry a fire arm?

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by Rojodi

Why was Zimmerman allowed to carry a gun? Isn't assaulting a police officer a felony, which means he loses the right to carry a fire arm?

If he had been convicted of a felony yes. He was not so convicted so he got to carry a firearm.

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262

...

It is not the gun law that is the problem. The police were well aware of Zimmerman's activities. They should have made it crystal clear to him what was expected of him. Just what he could do and more importantly what he could not do. The police should have never let him play “cop.”

...

1) I never said the "stand your ground law" caused Mr. Zimmerman to murder Trayvon. What I said was it will make the possecution of Mr. Zimmerman much more difficult. Mr. Z is a racist asshole but he's going to use the law to cover his sorry ass.

2) You over estimate the power of the police they cannot stop anyone from doing stupid things until a law is actually violated -- by then its often too late.

[Deven]

Originally Posted by Rojodi

Why was Zimmerman allowed to carry a gun? Isn't assaulting a police officer a felony, which means he loses the right to carry a fire arm?

Originally Posted by bigmac

If he had been convicted of a felony yes. He was not so convicted so he got to carry a firearm.

Exactly what Bigmac said. Being arrested doesn't automatically make you lose your gun unless a judge orders it to be turned in into your trial.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by bigmac

1) I never said the "stand your ground law" caused Mr. Zimmerman to murder Trayvon. What I said was it will make the possecution of Mr. Zimmerman much more difficult. Mr. Z is a racist asshole but he's going to use the law to cover his sorry ass.

2) You over estimate the power of the police they cannot stop anyone from doing stupid things until a law is actually violated -- by then its often too late.

He won't able to use that defense when he started to stalk him. The only one who would have been able to use this defense is Trayvon and unfortunately, he was killed. This is a ridiculous law and an innocent boy is dead because some guy on a power trip had an itchy trigger finger.

[LillyBBBW]

I fear the Martins will never see justice for this. The feds will do absolutely nothing, just as they always have done for the last 200 or so years. If by some slim chance they finally get their thumbs out of their asses and do something that fucker is going to take his own life because he's a liar, a poser and a coward. He should have thought to pull the trigger on himself BEFORE he shot Tray, then it truly would have been self defense. He belongs in prison.

[BBWHearts]

Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262

It is not the gun law that is the problem. The police were well aware of Zimmerman's activities. They should have made it crystal clear to him what was expected of him. Just what he could do and more importantly what he could not do. The police should have never let him play “cop.”

Gun law is disaster.

Zimmerman may have benefited from some of the broadest firearms and self-defense regulations in the nation. In 1987, then-Gov. Bob Martinez (R) signed Florida's concealed-carry provision into law, which "liberalized the restrictions that previously hindered the citizens of Florida from obtaining concealed weapons permits," according to one legal analyst. This trendsetting "shall-issue" statute triggered a wave of gun-carry laws in other states. (Critics said at the time that Florida would become "Dodge City.") Permit holders are also exempted from the mandatory state waiting period on handgun purchases.

Even though felons and other violent offenders are barred from getting a weapons permit, a 2007 investigation by the South Florida Sun-Sentinel found that licenses had been mistakenly issued to 1,400 felons and hundreds more applicants with warrants, domestic abuse injunctions, or gun violations. (More than 410,000 Floridians have been issued concealed weapons permits.) Since then, Florida also passed a law permitting residents to keep guns in their cars at work, against employers' wishes. The state also nearly allowed guns on college campuses last year, until an influential Republican lawmaker fought the bill after his close friend's daughter was killed by an AK-47 brandished at a Florida State University fraternity party.

Florida also makes it easy to plead self-defense in a killing. Under then-Gov. Jeb Bush, the state in 2005 passed a broad "stand your ground" law, which allows Florida residents to use deadly force against a threat without attempting to back down from the situation. (More stringent self-defense laws state that gun owners have "a duty to retreat" before resorting to killing.) In championing the law, former NRA president and longtime Florida gun lobbyist Marion Hammer said: "Through time, in this country, what I like to call bleeding-heart criminal coddlers want you to give a criminal an even break, so that when you're attacked, you're supposed to turn around and run, rather than standing your ground and protecting yourself and your family and your property."

Again, the Sunshine State was the trendsetter: 17 states have since passed "stand your ground" laws, which critics call a "license to kill" or a "shoot first" law. The law has been unpopular with law enforcement officers in Florida, since it makes it much more difficult to charge shooters with a crime and has regularly confounded juries in murder cases; many Orlando-area cops reportedly have given up investigating "self-defense" cases as a result, referring them to the overloaded state Attorney's Office for action. A 2010 study by the Tampa Bay Times found that "justifiable homicides" had tripled in the state since the law went into effect.

^Is from Mother Jones magazine.

[BBWHearts]

Is one thing to have right to keep gun. Is another thing to have licence to kill who ever you want based on "feelings", no questions asked.

This "kill anyone you feel like" law is idiot, and only possibel in America and place without goverment like Yemen and Somalia.

[CastingPearls]

Wannabe cops IMO and experience are more dangerous than 'bad' cops.

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by Mathias

He won't able to use that defense when he started to stalk him. The only one who would have been able to use this defense is Trayvon and unfortunately, he was killed. This is a ridiculous law and an innocent boy is dead because some guy on a power trip had an itchy trigger finger.

In a rational world you're right -- but in the world as it is Mr. Zimmerman is indeed hiding behind the "stand your ground law" and the local police are supporting him.


Police Chief Bill Lee states:

"When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the city may be held liable.


According to Florida Statute 776.032:

776:032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force. –
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful."


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/21...hooting-death/

[KittyKitten]

And can you believe the perpetrator's buddy actually blamed the victim and said that he basically needed to explain himself to this guy? As if we have to explain to idiots where we are going. I mean, how dare he go walking around freely and not have to tell anyone who he is.....sick of this arrogant vigilante mentality of so many in this country, especially in the South. It's bad enough that cops can freely get away with shooting people without asking questions (Bell, Diallo, etc) but civilians too? Do they think people are just going to shrug this whole situation off? No, it's 2012 not 1950. People are extremely angry about this case and it shouldn't be a neo con versus liberal nor a black versus white issue, it is a common sense and humanity issue and that could have been anyone's son. It's time some people started focusing on issues that go beyond their arses and thinking about others for a change.
-----------------------------------------------------
Trayvon Martin case: Sanford commission votes 'no confidence' in police chief
Source: Orlando Sentinel.

Sanford city commissioners just gave a vote of no confidence in police Chief Bill Lee Jr., who has been publicly lambasted for his department's handling of the Trayvon Martin shooting.

The vote was 3-2, with Commissioners Randy Jones and Patty Mahany voting against.

Commissioner Mark McCarty made a motion to fire the chief, who has been on the job just 10 months. Lee was hired as chief in May 2011 in the wake of tumult surrounding the beating of a homeless black man by the son of a Sanford lieutenant.

The commission, discussing the topic before a packed house, is taking public comment now.Commissioners can't fire Lee because he reports to City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. But their vote tonight sent a strong signal.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...rs-randy-jones

[DELIMAN092262]

Some claim the law defends Zimmerman. The man that wrote the law disagrees.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...der-law-wrote/

In the end Zimmerman will face trial. He will be found guilty on several counts and will probable spend the rest of his life in prison.

[BBWHearts]

Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262

In the end Zimmerman will face trial. He will be found guilty on several counts and will probable spend the rest of his life in prison.

Right because America citizens now know about garbage law and its evil conseqeunce. Florida justece system cannot hide like it plan to.

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262

Some claim the law defends Zimmerman. The man that wrote the law disagrees.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...der-law-wrote/

In the end Zimmerman will face trial. He will be found guilty on several counts and will probable spend the rest of his life in prison.

It really doesn't matter what the author of the law thinks (courts only look to the legislative history of a law in very limited situations). The fact remains that Mr. Zimmerman will use the law as a screen thus making prosecution much harder (not impossible -- just much harder).

[Surlysomething]

What a horrible, horrible crime.

My heart aches for his family and it makes me afraid for my two young cousins that live in Florida.

[Pear320]

I am TOTALLY heartsick over this .. I watched the Anderson Cooper show earlier today and the parents were on. Seeing his mother's eyes I cannot imagine the pain they both must be going through.

I've lived in Florida since the 1970's and living conditions here keep getting worse (more corrupt) .... over the decades I've heard stories and actually witnessed things concerning the police that shocked even me (a former Detroiter). There's a different "mentality" here .. REAL LIFE in Florida is nothing like the fancy tourist ads on TV.

It definitely isn't a place for young people.

[bigmac]

Not only has he not been arrested but Florida hasn't even revoked or suspended Mr. Zimmerman's concealed carry permit. That's right folks he's still out there and he's still armed.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-carry-permit/