The Merged Thread About Trayvon Martin

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Surlysomething

Really?

I'm curious. Do you have a job? Haha.

And what bearing does that have on this discussion?

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Brenda

""Bull. This is not a textbook case of self-defense.

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by Brenda

Why do so many keep ignoring the fact that Zimmerman was told by the 911 operator that the police were in route and NOT to approach.

And according to reports published by the Orland Sentinel, that is what he did. When instructed to let the police handle it, he drew back.

Originally Posted by Brenda

He chose to ignore those instructions, which set up the chain of events that led to a senseless death.

No, according to published reports, he did not ignore those instructions.

Originally Posted by Brenda

His prejudices (clearly heard on the 911 recording which the police tried to keep secret) led him to play judge, jury and executioner.

Nothing was clearly heard on the 911 recording. Even when enhanced at a recording studio, they could not make out exactly what was said. As far as his "prejudices", why is it a matter of public record that he helped raise money for a black church. Who helps those that they are prejudice against?

Originally Posted by Brenda

The moment he exited his automobile and started the attack, for that is what is was, Trayvon was the one acting in self-defense.

You keep ignoring the fact that other than the gunshot wound, Martin didn't have a scratch on him. Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a bruised and bloody mess which proves that Martin was the attacker and Zimmerman acted in self defense. Your version ios not supported by the physical evidence.

Originally Posted by Brenda

Remember, this was a stranger that had been suspiciously following him, not the other way around.

It still doesn't give him the right, under the law, to resort to physical violence. Even if somebody verbal taunts you and insults you, you still not not have the right to resort to violence toward that person.

Originally Posted by Brenda

Zimmerman's injuries were the result of his assault on a stranger who was doing nothing more than walking down the street!

If Zimmerman attacked Martin, why did Martin not have a scratch on him. What did he do, walk up and begin smashing his face into Martin's fists?

Originally Posted by Brenda

If someone followed me in a car while I was walking at night I would be scared, if he got out of the car and threatened me I would defend myself.

Problem was that Zimmerman didn't make any threats. There is no proof that he did. You are merely making things up.

Originally Posted by Brenda

Self defense is not someone starting a fight, finds himself getting bettered and shooting his way out of it.

You are correct but when somebody starts beating you breaking your nose and repeatedly slamming your head into the sidewalk, you are then in danger of serious injury or even death and since deadly force is being used against you, you are legally and morally able to use deadly force in self defense. Which is what happened in this case.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Rojodi

Okay, so if I wear a hoodie and since I look Latino, does that mean I can be legally shot in FL?

If you break their nose, bust their lip and begin repeatedly smashing their head into the sidewalk while that person is yelling for help, then, yes, you can be legally shot in FL.

By the way, for the record, I'm Cuban. I bet I look more Latino than you.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by tonynyc

Well the way you put it - nice and tidy and all- not a scratch just gunshot wound ... by the way ... are you zimmerman...and as for the police reports that is a while other matter...




even simpler terms for you... even a zimmerman loving fan like you ought to know that polygraph are not admitted as evidence in court- to may ways to beat the machine.... and zimmerman can easily pass a polygraph test if his buddies coached him... the options are endless




is the TinFoil pointy.....

even simpler terms for you... even a zimmerman loving fan like you ought to know that polygraph are not admitted as evidence in court- to may ways to beat the machine.... and zimmerman can easily pass a polygraph test if his buddies coached him... the options are endless

Sounds like you're the one with the tinfoil hat.

[truebebeblue]

Because it leaves far too much room for human error. Humans can be hateful and rash and violent. Zimmerman had a history of violence towards the police and women,not someone you want with a gun. So apparently Florida gun laws are very flawed and yes that is a huge problem. I am not anti gun and think castle doctrines generally make sense,I do not agree with this law.

Originally Posted by Gomes

And the people of Florida made that law. Why is that a problem?

[truebebeblue]

Everyone need stop basing their opinions in this case on what the media is reporting. The media lies,flatly and generously every day.

Seriously.


You were not there. Wait for the completion of the investigation
Then we can look at the stupid law of that state.

[Surlysomething]

Originally Posted by Gomes

And what bearing does that have on this discussion?

I'm just wondering how you find the time to write your diatribes.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

Because it leaves far too much room for human error.

Souldn't people be governed the way that THEY want to be governed and not the way that OTHERS want them to be governed?

Would you want others to override your wishes and desires of how you should be governed? Suppose they decided that being overweight was a crime and forced you down to a normal weight. Would you be fine with that? I assume not. Then neither do you have a right to decide how the people of FL should govern themselves.

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

Humans can be hateful and rash and violent.

And this was proven when Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

Zimmerman had a history of violence towards the police and women,not someone you want with a gun. So apparently Florida gun laws are very flawed and yes that is a huge problem.

Google 4473. If you have a felony or a violent misdemeaner you are barred from owning a gun. That is a federal law. Since Zimmerman owned the gun legally, that history of violence that you make reference to is obviously incorrect or, a mistake was made at the federal level and so far, nobody on the federal level is saying anything about that.

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

I am not anti gun and think castle doctrines generally make sense,I do not agree with this law.

What part of the law do you disagree with? If I jump on top of you and begin repeatedly smashing your head into the sidewalk, there is a good chance that I can kill you. Are you saying that if you had a weapon, you don't think that you should be able to legally use it to defend yourself? Exactly what are you saying?

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Surlysomething

I'm just wondering how you find the time to write your diatribes.

They let me out of my room every once in a while to use the computers. Ever notice that I am gone for long periods of time and make brief returns every once in a while.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

Everyone need stop basing their opinions in this case on what the media is reporting. The media lies,flatly and generously every day.

Seriously.


You were not there. Wait for the completion of the investigation
Then we can look at the stupid law of that state.

Beyond that, someone shot and killed another person and should at least have been arrested...

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by Gomes

even simpler terms for you... even a zimmerman loving fan like you ought to know that polygraph are not admitted as evidence in court- to may ways to beat the machine.... and zimmerman can easily pass a polygraph test if his buddies coached him... the options are endless

Sounds like you're the one with the tinfoil hat.

that honor is reserved for you.....

[truebebeblue]

Originally Posted by Gomes

Souldn't people be governed the way that THEY want to be governed and not the way that OTHERS want them to be governed?

Would you want others to override your wishes and desires of how you should be governed? Suppose they decided that being overweight was a crime and forced you down to a normal weight. Would you be fine with that? I assume not. Then neither do you have a right to decide how the people of FL should govern themselves.


And this was proven when Martin attacked Zimmerman.


Google 4473. If you have a felony or a violent misdemeaner you are barred from owning a gun. That is a federal law. Since Zimmerman owned the gun legally, that history of violence that you make reference to is obviously incorrect or, a mistake was made at the federal level and so far, nobody on the federal level is saying anything about that.


What part of the law do you disagree with? If I jump on top of you and begin repeatedly smashing your head into the sidewalk, there is a good chance that I can kill you. Are you saying that if you had a weapon, you don't think that you should be able to legally use it to defend yourself? Exactly what are you saying?

Apparently the people of FL made a mistake,sometimes it takes a while to realize that. Not the first time something like that has happened!
The fat as a crime argument is stupid and how you could even draw a parallel with gun laws is hilarious. My fat ass is not going to kill anyone. Stupid gun laws can and have.

You do not know what happened,noone has even been reported to see the entire incident only pieces,you are basing you truth on a media outlets story.
The funniest part of it is how adamant that you KNOW how it happened.
I never said things went one way or the other,because I have no direct knowledge. Gathering all the facts is much wiser...

The situation you described is covered by self defense no stand your ground law is needed there is already a law in place.

I am saying if there is room in a law for you to start a fight with me while carrying a gun,and if I yell at you or tell you I am going to kick your ass,you can shoot me because you felt threatened? What if we got into an argument at a kids baseball game over an umpires decision or after a fender bender? You can kill me because you felt threatened. Too much room for human stupidity/cowardess and error. I could say I felt threatened because someone stared at me in a pervy way or said hey baby nice tits!Do I have the right to shoot them?
Yes all ridiculous situations for a death to occur,people get ridiculous sometimes.

His arrest record is public,he was arrested but not convicted. Seems like someone arrested for two different violent crimes even if they got off might have an issue with violence. The domestic partner may have refused to file charges... who knows. He was also not supposed to be carrying a weapon as a neighborhood watch member... flashlight is the norm. I wonder why that rule is in place? To stop things like this occurring when people are in a heightened state and vulnerable to do stupid things.

I get why people are upset,this never should have happened and we really don't know WHY yet I mean people with direct knowledge are still figuring it out... how can we as way distanced parties even begin to KNOW.

[Surlysomething]

Originally Posted by Gomes

They let me out of my room every once in a while to use the computers. Ever notice that I am gone for long periods of time and make brief returns every once in a while.

Haha. I was just giving you a hard time.

[Keb]

Originally Posted by Mathias

Beyond that, someone shot and killed another person and should at least have been arrested...

Taken for formal questioning, yes. Arrested, not necessarily. Whatever would have been right in this case, there are plenty of cases where adding an arrest to an already traumatic situation (say a woman is attacked and almost raped, but she manages to kill the attacker--should she be arrested?) would just make things worse and less just.

People have a right to self-defense. The problem in this case is that Zimmerman -may- have abused that right significantly, depending on the version of events you buy. If he was not genuinely defending himself or if he created the conflict, then yes, he should have been arrested. If it wasn't clear, then the police had a responsibility to get as much information as possible before releasing him.

But a one-size-fits-all declaration that anyone who kills someone else should be arrested is problematic for its own reasons.

[BubbleButtBabe]

I hate the fact they are trying to drag that poor kid's name through the mud and make it seem like Zimmerman was a saint..Plus Zimmerman had the kid by at least 75lbs and probably a couple of inches and he got his ass kicked by Trayvon? Something sounds fishy and I will be glad when the FBI releases it's report as well as the grand jury!

[BubbleButtBabe]

Originally Posted by LillyBBBW

The national neighborhood watch registry says they never heard of him which is why they refer to him as self appointed. He was never on any official neighborhood watch. The community put out an inquiry for a volunteer and he stepped forward. I just wonder where he found time to sit propped up in the window looking out for black people outside. This joker reported a 7 year old boy for crying out loud.

I wonder why the community didn't do a background check on him,plus why didn't the police step forward and tell someone that they had picked the wrong man for the job...He probably slept very little so he could be "Johnny Law" for his community..He is off his rocker for reporting a child..

[vardon_grip]

Originally Posted by truebebeblue

Everyone need stop basing their opinions in this case on what the media is reporting. The media lies,flatly and generously every day.

Seriously.


You were not there. Wait for the completion of the investigation
Then we can look at the stupid law of that state.

...but jumping to conclusions is the only form of exercise we get at Dimensions!

[KittyKitten]

For real? Like really? Posting terrible pictures of a kid that is not the real Trayvon and saying that is the victim. I'm not going to post the fake pictures here because of the overzealous moderation (can't be too passionate now now or else get an infraction spank) but what slander! How sick can one get? I feel for the parents. One can argue Zimmerman has been in trouble with the law both for assaulting a police officer and domestic violence. If anyone is the scum, it is sure not Trayvon.

[Diana_Prince245]

Apparently the cops wanted to charge Zimmerman, but the DA said 'no,' probably thanks to that stupid law.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...to-charge.html

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by Diana_Prince245

Apparently the cops wanted to charge Zimmerman, but the DA said 'no,' probably thanks to that stupid law.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...to-charge.html

The law's doing just what its supporters intended -- its protecting vigilantes. And the NRA's hard at work bringing similar laws to a state near you.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/154689

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Mathias

Beyond that, someone shot and killed another person and should at least have been arrested...

Not if no law was broken and under FL if a person is in danger of serious injury or death, that person can use deadly force in self defense without retribution. You may not like it but that is the law the people chose for themselves and neither you nor i have a right to impose something else upon them.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by tonynyc

that honor is reserved for you.....

Not based on your responses. You're looking for every possible excuse to make Zimmerman look guilty completely ignoring the law of land that a person is innocent until PROVEN guilty and so far all of the evidence is proving him innocent.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by bigmac

The law's doing just what its supporters intended -- its protecting vigilantes. And the NRA's hard at work bringing similar laws to a state near you.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/154689

Hopefully they will be successful in bringing it to all fifty states.

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by Diana_Prince245

Apparently the cops wanted to charge Zimmerman, but the DA said 'no,' probably thanks to that stupid law.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...to-charge.html

Stupid law? If someone is using deadly force against you, why shouldn't you be allowed to use deadly force back?

[Gomes]

Originally Posted by happyface83

For real? Like really? Posting terrible pictures of a kid that is not the real Trayvon and saying that is the victim. I'm not going to post the fake pictures here because of the overzealous moderation (can't be too passionate now now or else get an infraction spank) but what slander! How sick can one get? I feel for the parents. One can argue Zimmerman has been in trouble with the law both for assaulting a police officer and domestic violence. If anyone is the scum, it is sure not Trayvon.

One can argue that Trayvon was no angel either. He was suspended from school multiple times. He assaulted a bus driver. He defaced school property. He was found with traces of drugs and drug paraphernalia. He was found with burglary tools womens jewelry that he couldn't explain who it belonged to. In fact the day of the shooting, he was once again suspended from school which is why he was in that neighborhood instead of school.