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Old 09-12-2012, 07:17 PM   #1
CleverBomb
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Default Shiny Object

Yesterday:
Quote:
It doesn't surprise me that they're raising foreign policy because it's another distraction from the Administration’s terrible economic record,” [Romney foreign policy advisor Robert] O’Brien told BuzzFeed. “They're going from one shiny object to the next.
Today:
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) - The gunfire at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, had barely ceased when Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney seriously mischaracterized what had happened in a statement accusing President Barack Obama of "disgraceful" handling of violence there and at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.

"The Obama administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks," Romney said in a statement first emailed to reporters at 10:09 p.m. Eastern time, under the condition it not be published until midnight*.

In fact, neither a statement by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo earlier in the day nor a later statement from Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton offered sympathy for attackers.
*because it would be unseemly to play politics on a September 11th. (It should be noted that the campaign lifted its embargo on the statement 15 minutes later.)

Not just going for the "shiny object" for political advantage, but getting ahead of both the news cycle and the facts on the ground.

Aside from the politics, this is a tragedy, (we've lost a great Ambassador and three of his fellows in the Foreign Service), a diplomatically delicate situation, and is just plain f*ked up on a number of levels.

Last edited by CleverBomb; 09-12-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:30 PM   #2
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Default Romney's new campaign theme, take one:

Desperately Wanting
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:43 PM   #3
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Default Oh, this is a gooood one:

These lyrics should really resonate with Romney-supporters:

Quote:
"Desperate" -David Archuleta

Desperate, desperate
You're reaching out
And no one hears you cry
You're freaking out again
'Cause all your fears
Remind you another dream has come undone

You feel so small and lost like you're the only one
You wanna scream 'cause you're
Desperate

You want somebody, just anybody
To lay their hands on your soul tonight
You want a reason to keep believin'
That someday you're gonna see the light

You're in the dark
There's no one left to call
And sleep's your only friend
but even sleep
Can't hide you from all those tears
And all the pain and all the days
You wasted pushin' them away
It's your life, it's time you face it

You want somebody, just anybody
To lay their hands to your soul tonight
You want a reason to keep believin'
That someday you're gonna see the light
'Cause you're desperate; desperate
'Cause you're desperate; and now

You know that things have gotta change
You can't go back
you'll find your way
And day by day
You start to come alive

You want somebody, just anybody
To bring some peace on your soul tonight
You want a reason to keep believin'
That someday you're gonna see the light
You want somebody, just anybody
To lay their hands on your soul tonight
You want a reason to keep believin'
That someday you're gonna see the light
'Cause you're desperate, desperate
'Cause you're desperate, tonight
Oh desperate, so desperate
Tonight, tonight
Desperate, desperate
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:57 PM   #4
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Default

I listened to Barack Obama's statement concerning the embassy takeover and the death of the US ambassador. For some reason the words sounded familiar and when I closed my eyes I could “see” Jimmy Carter delivering those words. They sounded like the words Carter used after the Iranian “students” toke over the US embassy in Tehran in 1979.

Strange how those comparisons with Jimmy Carter keep popping with Barack Obama. Is Mitt Romney the next Ronald Reagan?
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
......Strange how those comparisons with Jimmy Carter keep popping with Barack Obama. Is Mitt Romney the next Ronald Reagan?
God I hope not. I'm not even a Democrat and I don't want to see another Reagan. His policies are what took my profession down to barely being able to claim a lower-middle class wage from being an upper-middle class wage and set trucking back 20 years or better. He might have done some good for some folks, but he didn't do my sector of the transportation industry any favors.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by CleverBomb View Post
Aside from the politics, this...is just plain f*ked up on a number of levels.
Among other things, the movie that set off the protests in Cairo and Benghazi apparently exists only as a trailer for a nonexistent movie, and was deliberately created to incite Islamic outrage. And for additional effect, the producers claimed that it was paid for with $5 Million from Jewish financiers (who also do not exist). The actors had no idea that they would be used in this way -- they were told the movie was something else entirely, and the offensive lines were dubbed over the ones originally performed.

Originally done in English, and shown only one time in Hollywood (if even that -- none of the theaters in the area where it was allegedly shown have any records of it), it was posted to YouTube in June and was pretty much ignored. However, last week an Arabic dub of it was posted, and promoted by an Egyptian-American Christian activist, leading to an Egyptian TV channel broadcasting excerpts of the video.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #7
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
I listened to Barack Obama's statement concerning the embassy takeover and the death of the US ambassador. For some reason the words sounded familiar and when I closed my eyes I could “see” Jimmy Carter delivering those words. They sounded like the words Carter used after the Iranian “students” toke over the US embassy in Tehran in 1979.

Strange how those comparisons with Jimmy Carter keep popping with Barack Obama. Is Mitt Romney the next Ronald Reagan?
The attack on the Benghazi consulate was by armed militants using the protests as a distraction. And instead of the local populace and government supporting the attacks, there have been demonstrations around the site expressing condolences for our slain diplomats, and pledges of cooperation from the Libyan government in bringing the perpetrators to justice.

I'm thinking it seems more like the embassy in Lebanon, myself. But I don't expect we'll un-mothball a battleship, shell the place and retreat, this time.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CleverBomb View Post
I'm thinking it seems more like the embassy in Lebanon. But I don't expect we'll un-mothball a battleship, shell the place and retreat, this time.
Ok, not the best parallel -- I was distracted by Zombie Reagan. A better parallel would be the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. President Clinton's retaliatory cruise missile strikes on Al Qaeda sites in Afghanistan and Sudan were decried at the time by Republicans as an attempt to disrupt impeachment proceedings.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:58 PM   #9
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Do you mean "Wag the dog?" Remember, those attacks destroyed a milk factory. In the end they were worse that stupid. They just conviced bin Laden that the US was a paper tiger and would not or could not respond. That is what lead to the bombing of the USS Cole and then 911.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:30 PM   #10
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Default

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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Do you mean "Wag the dog?" Remember, those attacks destroyed a milk factory. In the end they were worse that stupid. They just conviced bin Laden that the US was a paper tiger and would not or could not respond. That is what lead to the bombing of the USS Cole and then 911.
All right. You've covered your ass, now.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:42 PM   #11
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Romney was wrong for attacking so fast and using those deaths as a poltical tool. There is such a thing as timing and this comment about the attack shouldn't of occured at the time whether the comment was valid or not the timing makes it hard to justify it. A dumb move.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by LeoGibson View Post
God I hope not. I'm not even a Democrat and I don't want to see another Reagan. His policies are what took my profession down to barely being able to claim a lower-middle class wage from being an upper-middle class wage and set trucking back 20 years or better. He might have done some good for some folks, but he didn't do my sector of the transportation industry any favors.
Nice summary of Reagan's legacy. He paved the way for an entire generation of wage rollbacks.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Do you mean "Wag the dog?" Remember, those attacks destroyed a milk factory. In the end they were worse that stupid. They just conviced bin Laden that the US was a paper tiger and would not or could not respond. That is what lead to the bombing of the USS Cole and then 911.
no Deli if any ; what convened bin laden is United States embassy bombing in Lebanon .and the fact that the united state swallowed it's pride and retreated and the fact that did not cause any resentment or cretinism from any of the two parties . that convened all radicals that America is still gutting nightmares . which wasn't true , of course . it was a sound decision by Reagan administration at the time , and they were able in the end to achieve there political objectives by Soft power .
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by LeoGibson View Post
God I hope not. I'm not even a Democrat and I don't want to see another Reagan. His policies are what took my profession down to barely being able to claim a lower-middle class wage from being an upper-middle class wage and set trucking back 20 years or better. He might have done some good for some folks, but he didn't do my sector of the transportation industry any favors.
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Nice summary of Reagan's legacy. He paved the way for an entire generation of wage rollbacks.
Glad I'm not the only one who was also able to see this. Regan had his moments, but most were bad then good.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:33 PM   #15
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I seriously think the Republicans invented the Reagan Legacy because they didn't have a version of Kennedy's Camelot to parade around in the media.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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I seriously think the Republicans invented the Reagan Legacy because they didn't have a version of Kennedy's Camelot to parade around in the media.
Just what legacy are you referring to? How much of Kennedy's Camelot is due to his death in office. Kennedy was very popular with the press. Did that effect how his presidency has been portrayed?

Ronald Reagan said his tax cuts were inspired by Kennedy's tax cuts. The result were the same both times. The economy boomed.

Kennedy is famous for the results of the Cuban Missile Crisis, but he is less well known as the president that sent the Vietnam War in progress.

Reagan is famous as the man that started the defense buildup, but is also responsible for some of the biggest arms reductions agreements from the IMF treaty to the START treaty.

On balance Reagan was a better president. He deserves the legacy more than Kennedy.

At least in my opinion!
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:15 PM   #17
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It was clearly a bad move politically. But what puzzled me was why they thought it was a good idea to go forward with it. Clearly, it's something they put some thought into, and had several hours to consider.

It turns out that Deli actually provided the answer, though I didn't realize it until much later. And that answer is one learned from 9-11: a properly managed response to an attack on the US can provide an immense political advantage to the incumbent administration. Conversely, an improperly managed attack can be politically catastrophic, as in the '79 Iranian Embassy occupation. Therefore, it was imperative for them to get their framing of events into the media before the Administration could respond.

If done quickly and authoritatively enough, they believed they would be able to shape the media coverage into alignment with their talking points. After all, it worked for them against an incumbent in 1979, and again as incumbents in 2001. And having accomplished that, they could reclaim the high ground of patriotism and national security competence.

Unfortunately for them, events on the ground were already rendering their partisan criticism painfully tone-deaf. That lead to critical media evaluation of the narrative they presented, further invalidating it except in already-sympathetic outlets such as conservative talk radio and Fox News. They persist in putting it forward, though, because their media partisans can use it to sustain the motivation of their base voters even if it's not credible to anyone outside their audience.

If they'd chosen to have Gov. Romney act Presidential rather than like a desperately-trailing candidate, this wouldn't have come back to bite them. But, within their frame of reference, they didn't have any other choice.

Last edited by CleverBomb; 09-13-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:38 PM   #18
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When George W. Bush got the first reports of a plane crashing into the first World Trade building, his critics have said he should have left right then. They attach all sorts of meaning from some form of lack of interest to just plain stupidity for him not leaving.

When Barack Obama heard of the death of an US ambassador did he convene a meeting of his cabinet? Did he get an intelligence brief? Did he address the crisis at all?

No, he flew to Las Vegas to have a good time at a fundraiser. If it was Bush the press would have skinned him alive. That was the “statement” made by Barack Obama.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:07 PM   #19
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First, are you seriously equating the two events? Really?

Second, my point was that they DID manage to control the media narrative about 9-11. If it had been focused on why it wasn't prevented rather than President Bush's resolve to avenge it, that would have been the end of the Administration and of the Republican party for decades. Obviously, it wasn't.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:15 PM   #20
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First, are you seriously equating the two events? Really?

Second, my point was that they DID manage to control the media narrative about 9-11. If it had been focused on why it wasn't prevented rather than President Bush's resolve to avenge it, that would have been the end of the Administration and of the Republican party for decades. Obviously, it wasn't.
No, I am referring to the double standard. If Bush had left that school to attend a fundraiser the press would have cut him a new one. Obama leaves Washington in crisis to have fun and raise money for his re-election. Four people died in government service and Obama goes to Las Vegas for fun and a fundraiser.

That is truly SICK!
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
No, I am referring to the double standard. If Bush had left that school to attend a fundraiser the press would have cut him a new one. Obama leaves Washington in crisis to have fun and raise money for his re-election. Four people died in government service and Obama goes to Las Vegas for fun and a fundraiser.

That is truly SICK!
Hurricane Katrina response:

And if you're supposed to stay in D.C. one day for each four dead American personnel, he'd still be walking in circles around 1600 Pennsylvania Ave today...

(Ok, that last point is hyperbole, I think.)

Last edited by CleverBomb; 09-13-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
No, I am referring to the double standard. If Bush had left that school to attend a fundraiser the press would have cut him a new one. Obama leaves Washington in crisis to have fun and raise money for his re-election. Four people died in government service and Obama goes to Las Vegas for fun and a fundraiser.

That is truly SICK!
What crisis ? you are talking about ? I'm with you on the sheer silliness of criticizing Bush on the school , but I HEAR IT REPEATED by republicans and never heard it from any body else .what has been months later kept coming from Bush critics and kept being ignored by republican is the claim that there was ample CIA warnings about the attacks and Bush administration chose to ignore it and even after the fact it kept ignoring the CIA report about Iraq and chose to manufacture it's own false fact . and Deli , the significance of this , is the fact that the same neoconservatives who coaxed BUSH in to this ; are actively all over Romany campaign .
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:51 PM   #23
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Mitt Romney accused President Obama of sympathizing with the attackers.

This is the most disgraceful comment any political candidate has ever made. Period.Not only that Romney thought it would score him political points. Just watch the video and look at the vulgar twit smirk while he walks away.

Good on the republicans in the media who have condemned him for it.

I never had any strong opinion about Romney before other than just thinking he was a horrible candidate that flip flops on every issue. But after these comments I really think this guy is one of the worst people in the country. He's a f**king degenerate swine that deserves to be scorned for his gutless, opportunistic, inaccurate attack. He has no shame and I don't have much nice to say to those who are supporting his disgraceful comments either.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by kilo riley View Post
Mitt Romney accused President Obama of sympathizing with the attackers.

This is the most disgraceful comment any political candidate has ever made. Period.Not only that Romney thought it would score him political points. Just watch the video and look at the vulgar twit smirk while he walks away.

Good on the republicans in the media who have condemned him for it.

I never had any strong opinion about Romney before other than just thinking he was a horrible candidate that flip flops on every issue. But after these comments I really think this guy is one of the worst people in the country. He's a f**king degenerate swine that deserves to be scorned for his gutless, opportunistic, inaccurate attack. He has no shame and I don't have much nice to say to those who are supporting his disgraceful comments either.
it appears the hole events has been orchestrated to give Mr Romona his Iran embassy like opportunity to make a deal with the devil as Roney did . it came from republican fanatic religious supporter . with neoconservative around him.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:01 AM   #25
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Criticisms of Romney aside, this incident may very well be Obama's "Jimmy Carter moment". The Middle East - an area of foreign policy that has been America's "achilles heel" of recent years (and I'm including Clinton, Dubya & Obama with that comment) is now lighting up like a wildfire.

The whole "Muhammed film" issue that supposedly sparked this off was possibly another Islamist false-flag operation. New information coming to light suggests that the real reason the orchestrated attack on the US Embassy took place was in retaliation to the killing in a drone strike in Pakistan of Mohammed Hassan Qaed, an al-Qa'ida operative.

What's more disturbing (from the same link above):

Quote:
According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.
So another lax in security & intelligence - on the anniversary of 9-11 no less. You would think there'd be safeguards developed over the last 10 or so years. Were they scaled back? Who's responsible and how high up the command chain can the blame be levelled at?

I also think the initial statement put out by the US Embassy in Cairo (made before the lethal attacks on the US Embassy in Benghazi) had the wrong tone and sentiment. It read:
Quote:
We condemn the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.
This line was parroted by Hillary Clinton and Obama. It showed a weakness for believing what the protesters / militant Islamists tell them - the YouTube video was more an excuse or red herring and not the real reasons.

What the US State Dept should have said and continue to say after these instances and the only way to stop this cycle is for the Government to stand firmly on principle:
"Citizens have freedom of speech, which specifically means the right to insult and annoy. The authorities will protect this right. Muslims do not enjoy special privileges but are subject to the same free-speech rules as everyone else. Leave us alone."

I think that is what Mitt Romney was trying to say but I agree with others in that he fluffed it up and it came off all wrong.


By November, the Obama Administration may very well unite Arab-Americans and Jewish Americans in their opposition to his foreign policy efforts over the last few years. I think the booing at the DNC last week was a precursor to that.

At least Obama has that meaningless Nobel Peace Prize trophy he can polish on his mantle.



Last edited by mango; 09-14-2012 at 04:04 AM.
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