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penguin

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More people are living at home for longer, because it's hellishly expensive to move out. Living at home doesn't mean you have no ambition, drive, independence or worth. Often it means you're still studying, you're saving money, and/or you have a good relationship with your family.

There's a big difference between someone living at home who's working, contributing to the running of the house (both financially and physically, with chores and such) and is actually an independent person, and someone who's slacking off, unemployed, not studying, staying home to play video games and expects others to clean up after them. The first, I'd date. The second, I wouldn't. It's not about where you live, it's about how you do it.

A lot of guys in that age bracket aren't emotionally independent. They don't know how to take care of themselves or their environment. It's not a turn on to go into a house that's never been cleaned and is covered in pizza boxes and the rubbish bin has become an entity that's asking for voting rights. For those guys stuck in the party mode, they don't exhibit great relationship signs.



Now if a woman was being hit on by an extreme psychopath or someone they didn't connect with at all, its perfectly reasonable to reject the advances.
It's perfectly reasonable for someone to reject advances from anyone, at any time. No one is owed anything.

No, what I'M talking about is a situation that a lot of guys are familiar with. You know, your female friend bitching and complaining endlessly that they "can't find a good b/f" and go on one bad date after another plus you gotta listen to her about each disaster till 3 in the god damn morning. Then when you say that you yourself would make a good b/f they give the old "Like you but not that much" speech then continue to date losers, abusers and other lowlives. THAT'S when karma comes into play when you're finally given the chance by someone else and meanwhile your "friend" who passed you over is still single. Ask any guy who's been there and wanted to throw the keyboard or phone out the window because a girl they wanted won't stop bitching about how awful guys treat her yet won't give them a chance.
Oh yes, the 'nice guy' dilemma. These aren't nice guys - they're entitled guys. They expect to get the chance to date the girl, simply because they want to, like the girl doesn't have the choice. She may not like them that way. She's allowed to not want to date them. How do you know she hasn't thought about it and decided against it?

There are plenty of people out there who make the same relationship mistakes over and over, and fall for type again and again with no success (I still have friends in their mid 30s that do this), but until THEY want to change their dating habits, it's not going to happen. No one owes anyone else a date, "just to see" if it'll work.

I'm friends with some women who've rejected me in the past and I respect them greatly....others not so much. I get a good laugh every now and then when I hear some get evicted or their unemployment was cut off or their baby daddy is in jail again or they got stood up on a date.
You take far too much pleasure in other people's misfortune. There's no guarantee you would've had a successful relationship with them or that your life won't go to hell. No one owed you a date, no one owed you a relationship.

IMO, rejections and failed relationships are important learning tools, because they help you understand yourself better and how you can be a better you. You learn more about what is important in a relationship, what's important in a date, what you will put up with and what you won't. You learn to improve yourself, not so that you can score better, but so that you can be a better person.

One reason some girls like older guys is because the older guys can provide the girls with stuff the younger guys can't - alcohol, gifts, nights out. Those girls aren't ones you want to have a relationship with, because they're just out for what they can get. Some girls like older guys because they're might be more reliable, more stable, more ambitious, more interested in doing things. Some girls like older guys because they have daddy issues and find security with older men.

Sitting around and being negative about all the people who have rejected you only makes you bitter, and bitter isn't attractive. Everyone has their preferences, and there's nothing wrong with someone else not finding you attractive. I don't find everyone attractive, so why would I expect that everyone would want me? I don't. But I know there'll be an overlap between the people I'm interested in and the people interested in me to find someone that I'll be able to have a relationship with.

I personally am not interested in dating someone that much younger than me, because chances are, we'll be in very different life stages. I'm at the wanting to settle down into a committed relationship point, not the dating around casually, let's see what happens point like we tend to be in our early 20s. I'd like more kids, and I've only got a few years left where that's an option to me, and someone who's ten or more years younger than me might not be in that place, where they're ready to do that so soon.
 

KHayes666

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Fair enough.

The only point I'd like to counter is the "nice guy dilemma". No, men aren't entitled to go out with women at all...but it gets EXTREMELY ANNOYING when you have to listen to a girl complain, whine and bitch endlessly and you can't do anything about it. Especially if the flaws in her bad dates don't apply to you. Like if she complains that the guy doesn't brush his teeth or never compliments her, those are easily correctable. So in a dude's mind he's like "Well I brush my teeth and have no problem calling her beautiful, what's wrong with me then?" Putting myself back in my 18-20 year old mindset, hearing all these flaws with other guys that don't apply to me...it drives me absolutely crazy that a girl that I like won't give me the same chance.

However putting myself back to the present 25 year old mindset, you're absolutely right in the sense there's no guarantee it will work out not to mention if this girl is completely stupid to fall for the same trap again and again its not even worth the drama to go after her. I'm also talking about same age dating here because you're absolutely right in saying age gaps do make a difference in mindsets. One wants to party and one wants to settle down...but then again I knew a 35 year old man who loved to party and a 21 year old girl who wanted to settle down. Everyone's different
 

penguin

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Fair enough.

The only point I'd like to counter is the "nice guy dilemma". No, men aren't entitled to go out with women at all...but it gets EXTREMELY ANNOYING when you have to listen to a girl complain, whine and bitch endlessly and you can't do anything about it. Especially if the flaws in her bad dates don't apply to you. Like if she complains that the guy doesn't brush his teeth or never compliments her, those are easily correctable. So in a dude's mind he's like "Well I brush my teeth and have no problem calling her beautiful, what's wrong with me then?" Putting myself back in my 18-20 year old mindset, hearing all these flaws with other guys that don't apply to me...it drives me absolutely crazy that a girl that I like won't give me the same chance.
A nice guy is someone who'll be friends with someone, no matter what, no matter how he or the other person feels. An entitled guy is someone who thinks that he should get a chance and hangs out with them while waiting for a chance.

I get that it's frustrating, I get that it's annoying. Guys do it, too, you realise. What it boils down to is this - they're not interested. It's not an insult to you that they don't find you attractive, and they're under no compulsion to find you attractive or to give you a go. Entitled guys (and girls) believe that that person should, simply because they want them to.

However putting myself back to the present 25 year old mindset, you're absolutely right in the sense there's no guarantee it will work out not to mention if this girl is completely stupid to fall for the same trap again and again its not even worth the drama to go after her. I'm also talking about same age dating here because you're absolutely right in saying age gaps do make a difference in mindsets. One wants to party and one wants to settle down...but then again I knew a 35 year old man who loved to party and a 21 year old girl who wanted to settle down. Everyone's different
Even with people that are the same age, you'll find them wanting different things. It's a matter of finding someone who's at the same stage as you, wanting the same things as you, having the same outlooks and beliefs as you. You don't have to share everything, but if you get the bases down, then everything else should merge.
 

Blackhawk2293

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Luck has a lot to do with it maybe just not in ways you are thinking about. What if an 18 year old kid found a good job and moved in with her b/f who was paying half the rent and the b/f got hit by a truck? What if the 18 year old kid got hit by a bus and had to move back home because she couldn't afford medical bills and rent at the same time? What if the 18 year old loses her job or the b/f loses his job? Sure its risk taking to move out but luck is one of the reasons why it works out for some.

Second part. Depends on why they did the rejecting and how they acted toward that person later. I agree on your last point too, women are definitely allowed preferences and I also think its karma when men reject a girl and end up single as well. An ex friend of mine broke up with his g/f because she wouldn't let him touch her and 5 years later she was married to another guy who had the patience meanwhile my buddy still cruises bars to pick up girls. It goes both ways and I didn't mean to sound discriminating toward women at all. Now if a woman was being hit on by an extreme psychopath or someone they didn't connect with at all, its perfectly reasonable to reject the advances.

No, what I'M talking about is a situation that a lot of guys are familiar with. You know, your female friend bitching and complaining endlessly that they "can't find a good b/f" and go on one bad date after another plus you gotta listen to her about each disaster till 3 in the god damn morning. Then when you say that you yourself would make a good b/f they give the old "Like you but not that much" speech then continue to date losers, abusers and other lowlives. THAT'S when karma comes into play when you're finally given the chance by someone else and meanwhile your "friend" who passed you over is still single. Ask any guy who's been there and wanted to throw the keyboard or phone out the window because a girl they wanted won't stop bitching about how awful guys treat her yet won't give them a chance.

I'm friends with some women who've rejected me in the past and I respect them greatly....others not so much. I get a good laugh every now and then when I hear some get evicted or their unemployment was cut off or their baby daddy is in jail again or they got stood up on a date.
I'd hardly call it luck. It took constant fights with my parents, isolation from my family as a whole, 2 suicide attempts and almost running my car off a cliff before I took charge and said "enough, I'm out of here!". My decision was out of necessity but the life I made for myself afterwards is something that I'm proud of.

Dude, it sounds like you've been triggered by this thread. I get your situation, I've heard plenty of girls complain about how they can't find the right guy and then plunge themselves into the same type of damaging relationship again and again. Are those types of girls really worth your time anyway? What would be the guarantee that even if they did go out with you that they wouldn't leave you because they're too used to being in the damaging relationship? I've seen that happen before too.

I've been in some nasty situations myself in my 20s. But the way I see it now is that there are no "innocent parties" in relationships and so I have culpability too in all of those situations... whether that is by direct action or by allowing myself to get into that situation in the first place. Point is, you can't blame the girls alone for that. Guys buy into that shit too and foolishly try to be the "better men" that the complaining girls expect instead of just being themselves.

As for your getting a good laugh from people's misfortunes now and then. I can't judge you on that because in my culture/religion (Hindu), it's perfectly okay for people to pray to a God to make bad shit happen to people that have wronged you... and then if that God doesn't do it for you, you can then pray to another God to curse the first God. Our ancient stories are full of those types of situations where people not only prayed but they used to fast and sacrifice their wealth or whatever too and although for the most part it is not really practiced, there are still very remote villages that do. Nothing wrong with it as long as you can accept that whoever you do it to has an equal right to do the same to you.
 

LillyBBBW

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I'd hardly call it luck. It took constant fights with my parents, isolation from my family as a whole, 2 suicide attempts and almost running my car off a cliff before I took charge and said "enough, I'm out of here!". My decision was out of necessity but the life I made for myself afterwards is something that I'm proud of.

Dude, it sounds like you've been triggered by this thread. I get your situation, I've heard plenty of girls complain about how they can't find the right guy and then plunge themselves into the same type of damaging relationship again and again. Are those types of girls really worth your time anyway? What would be the guarantee that even if they did go out with you that they wouldn't leave you because they're too used to being in the damaging relationship? I've seen that happen before too.

I've been in some nasty situations myself in my 20s. But the way I see it now is that there are no "innocent parties" in relationships and so I have culpability too in all of those situations... whether that is by direct action or by allowing myself to get into that situation in the first place. Point is, you can't blame the girls alone for that. Guys buy into that shit too and foolishly try to be the "better men" that the complaining girls expect instead of just being themselves.

As for your getting a good laugh from people's misfortunes now and then. I can't judge you on that because in my culture/religion (Hindu), it's perfectly okay for people to pray to a God to make bad shit happen to people that have wronged you... and then if that God doesn't do it for you, you can then pray to another God to curse the first God. Our ancient stories are full of those types of situations where people not only prayed but they used to fast and sacrifice their wealth or whatever too and although for the most part it is not really practiced, there are still very remote villages that do. Nothing wrong with it as long as you can accept that whoever you do it to has an equal right to do the same to you.
I agree. I'm really trying to refrain from posting in here too often since I'm way out of the age bracket. Not to mention, when I was in my 20s there was no shortage of old geezers willing to date me. There is a definite gender bias when it comes to things like this which is an argument in itself. All those old saws about someone being the best thing you never had hold true though. When a toxic relationship ended I rarely BooHooed over it long. It wasn't because I was strong and all knowing of something. It was because there was usually some other thing or opportunity that came right around the corner that had I still been tangled up in that messed-upedness I would have missed it or turned it down. Sometimes not getting what you want is a blessing in disguise even if you can't see it at the time. You only hurt yourself by remaining bitter about it. The other person is still skipping along gleefully through life doing whatever they want. Be grateful for what you got because you wouldn't have got there had that person been in your way. Insteaed you'd be bitter about something else. It's not worth it.

AND I feel it's right to post this since this isn't anything new or some earth shattering ageist revelation. It's something learned early that everybody can bob their heads to.
 

thatgirl08

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Fair enough.

The only point I'd like to counter is the "nice guy dilemma". No, men aren't entitled to go out with women at all...but it gets EXTREMELY ANNOYING when you have to listen to a girl complain, whine and bitch endlessly and you can't do anything about it. Especially if the flaws in her bad dates don't apply to you. Like if she complains that the guy doesn't brush his teeth or never compliments her, those are easily correctable. So in a dude's mind he's like "Well I brush my teeth and have no problem calling her beautiful, what's wrong with me then?" Putting myself back in my 18-20 year old mindset, hearing all these flaws with other guys that don't apply to me...it drives me absolutely crazy that a girl that I like won't give me the same chance.

Why would you even want to date a girl like that anyway?
 

LillyBBBW

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Prepare to hold your noses because I'm going to share a thought that is sometimes greeted with jeers. One of the things I've noticed is that a lot of young guys like really really really REALLY big women. Generally speaking women who sit within that size range tend to be much older though I know younger ones do exist. I mentioned before that once I got past a certain age a lot of young ones began a hot pursuit? Technically this all began when I reached 401 pounds. At 399 I was cute in my party dress but at 401 my FA magnet wnt to double strenght. I think that may be at play sometimes in the dating game. Men I knew well who were merely friendly before suddenly became moreso when I reappeared on the scene 80 pounds heavier than I was some years ago. Some guys may prefer older but I think there is a sizeist dynamic at play also.

Also for women over 30, a lot of the single men in our age bracket tend to be single for distinct reasons. This may explain the phenomenon of why older women date a lot of serial daters, closeted freaks and foreigners. Despite the warning signs, we tend to keep kissing these frogs hoping our kiss will be the magic one that changes his mindset. The trend of preference is to take a chance on these men our own age rather than hang around irritably waiting for some college kid to move out only to eventually leave us for a younger woman anyway when we've aged and broken down before his eyes. Also a lot of younger guys come at us with 'yo baby ttyl8tr lolzz' crap and that socially clumsy stage really presses our Go Away buttons. (A side tip to younger guys who want to date older women: text in complete words and sentences. 'GPOML' means 'Go Put Omlettes In Your Goddamned Pants You Stupid Mother Fucker' to us. Don't ask why, it's just a bizarre thing.)
 

Blackhawk2293

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Prepare to hold your noses because I'm going to share a thought that is sometimes greeted with jeers. One of the things I've noticed is that a lot of young guys like really really really REALLY big women. Generally speaking women who sit within that size range tend to be much older though I know younger ones do exist. I mentioned before that once I got past a certain age a lot of young ones began a hot pursuit? Technically this all began when I reached 401 pounds. At 399 I was cute in my party dress but at 401 my FA magnet wnt to double strenght. I think that may be at play sometimes in the dating game. Men I knew well who were merely friendly before suddenly became moreso when I reappeared on the scene 80 pounds heavier than I was some years ago. Some guys may prefer older but I think there is a sizeist dynamic at play also.

Also for women over 30, a lot of the single men in our age bracket tend to be single for distinct reasons. This may explain the phenomenon of why older women date a lot of serial daters, closeted freaks and foreigners. Despite the warning signs, we tend to keep kissing these frogs hoping our kiss will be the magic one that changes his mindset. The trend of preference is to take a chance on these men our own age rather than hang around irritably waiting for some college kid to move out only to eventually leave us for a younger woman anyway when we've aged and broken down before his eyes. Also a lot of younger guys come at us with 'yo baby ttyl8tr lolzz' crap and that socially clumsy stage really presses our Go Away buttons. (A side tip to younger guys who want to date older women: text in complete words and sentences. 'GPOML' means 'Go Put Omlettes In Your Goddamned Pants You Stupid Mother Fucker' to us. Don't ask why, it's just a bizarre thing.)
I know I'm going to sound old here but texting and social networking sites just seems to have made people more socially clumsy/inept/inconsiderate and created a world where it's perfectly okay to break up with someone over text or changing your Facebook status instead of doing it face to face... or at least talking to them on the phone.
 

LillyBBBW

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I know I'm going to sound old here but texting and social networking sites just seems to have made people more socially clumsy/inept/inconsiderate and created a world where it's perfectly okay to break up with someone over text or changing your Facebook status instead of doing it face to face... or at least talking to them on the phone.
I've made exceptions for one or two people but in truth I hate hate hate HATE texting. Seething white hot loathing. Seriously. It is so intrusive. I'm talking to someone, stuffed on to a crowded subway car, operating heavy machinery, trying to make dumpling dough. I do not have time to be fumbling awkwardly with my phone yuking it up on text while I'm trying to prevent the spread of salmonella. The only time I really use it is to see if someone is awake/available to receive a phone call from me right this minute. If I don't get a text back it means no. I completely ignore texts until I'm in a quiet place with no one around. Maybe I'm just too old or something but I simply can't use it like that. There are people who live on texting. I am convinced it's for people who have absolutely nothing at all to do. It's not fun or conveneint at all. I love watching videos of people toppling into fountains and falling down flights of stairs because they were walking and texting. I'm like, "GOOD, I HOPE ALL YOUR TEETH GOT KNOCKED OUT!!!!!11!!"

/hate rant.
 

thatgirl08

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Texting is for people who have nothing better to do? Lol okay. I prefer texting because its more convenient for me not because I have no life. Actually its the opposite.. I'm often in situations where a phone call is impossible - in a crowded restaurant with friends, at work, doing homework in the library or hanging out with my boyfriend. It's easier, and less intrusive, to send a text to someone than to make a phone call.
 

penguin

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I prefer texting too, it's less intrusive. I'm never sure what someone else is up to, and this way they can answer it when they're able to. Plus, I don't always want to have a full conversation with someone, I just want to chat back and forth a little.
 

LillyBBBW

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Texting is for people who have nothing better to do? Lol okay. I prefer texting because its more convenient for me not because I have no life. Actually its the opposite.. I'm often in situations where a phone call is impossible - in a crowded restaurant with friends, at work, doing homework in the library or hanging out with my boyfriend. It's easier, and less intrusive, to send a text to someone than to make a phone call.
Ugh, I don't know. It's still just really awkward for me. I'll be elbow deep in the middle of some tangle and my phone goes 'blrr*beep*' I'm I'm thinking omg WHO the hell is texting me right now?!?! It may just be an age thing. It's still not in my radar of dexterity.
 

Diana_Prince245

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I would way rather text than talk. Partly because I have some hearing loss and I can't hear people, especially men, over the phone. Also, it's easier to pee while texting without the other person knowing.
 

tjw1971

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I've thought a lot about some of this myself in the recent past, so interesting to read all the comments here about it.

On one hand, I *completely* understand where khayes is coming from, about frustration as a teen or 20-something who consistently finds women of interest in his age group are only interested in older guys. I lived through that too. At first, I was honestly just dumbfounded and confused when I started finding so many girls in my high-school were dating college aged guys. I got a better understanding of the reasons by the time I was in my 20's -- but it didn't make things much easier, knowing guys 10+ years older than me were competing for the attention of a woman my age ALONG with all the interested guys in my own age group.

On the flip side? I've *been* that older guy a few times, in my late 30's, dating early 20-somethings who were interested in me.

The thing I've come to realize (and this may upset/offend some of the younger gals dating older guys - so apologies in advance!) is, often times? The younger women only THINK they're so much more mature than the guys their own age. The reality is, they love the benefits that come with dating older guys.... more disposable income to take them out to nice dinners, buy them more expensive gifts on holidays, etc. Much more freedom with no parents/family poking around the guy's apartment, condo or house. More attention paid to them and only them (which truthfully happens because the older guy tends to realize he ALREADY has something his own peers are envious of -- an attractive, much younger woman). And sometimes, just a little bit more experience dating, which leads to less of those awkward moments where a guy doesn't know what to say or how to act in a situation.

As the older guy dating the younger one? I wound up experiencing a LOT of immature behavior on the womens' part, which shook me back into the reality that they really were only a "20 something", both physically AND mentally. In the beginning, no -- the relationships always seemed "solid" and I was led to believe the woman really was "more mature than her years". But the truth came out (sometimes explosively!) when something went wrong in the relationship. Rather than dealing with a conflict or difference in a mature way, they'd tend to do such things as taking back gifts given earlier, breaking my personal property in a fit of rage when I wasn't home, etc. Other times, comfort and complacency in the relationship just led to things like inviting their 20-something friends over to party into the late night hours, with no regard for the fact I had to be up early the next morning (and didn't really want those people in my place to begin with!). It just never went well, and it drove me to only date women my own age.
 

LillyBBBW

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I would way rather text than talk. Partly because I have some hearing loss and I can't hear people, especially men, over the phone. Also, it's easier to pee while texting without the other person knowing.
:O :D In my defense for the texting hate, it also occurs to me that I probably get a a much higher rate of stupid random texts than most people do. I have a sister in law on the west coast who sends me a lot of inane crap via text. She so sensitive that I don't want to hurt her feelings but once she sent me a picture of a chimpanzee in an Elvis costume with the caption "Yankees Suck" written underneath. I really should deactivate texting altogether but if I deactivate it she'll call, so in that respect I can totally relate to you Diana.
 

capra

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The thing is that luck had nothing to do with it. Taking risks, working hard and sacrificing did. Just because a woman isn't interested in dating someone doesn't mean she thinks he's a second class citizen. I dont know about everyone else but I'm sick of hearing about how women are supposed to act or feel about men. Rejection is a fact of life and doesn't make the person doing the rejecting a bad person. Women are allowed preferences too.
I don't think it's fair to imply people who end up cycling back to home for a spell didn't take risk, work hard, or sacrificed, but I agree with the rest of your post.
 

capra

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Luck has a lot to do with it maybe just not in ways you are thinking about. What if an 18 year old kid found a good job and moved in with her b/f who was paying half the rent and the b/f got hit by a truck? What if the 18 year old kid got hit by a bus and had to move back home because she couldn't afford medical bills and rent at the same time? What if the 18 year old loses her job or the b/f loses his job? Sure its risk taking to move out but luck is one of the reasons why it works out for some.

Second part. Depends on why they did the rejecting and how they acted toward that person later. I agree on your last point too, women are definitely allowed preferences and I also think its karma when men reject a girl and end up single as well. An ex friend of mine broke up with his g/f because she wouldn't let him touch her and 5 years later she was married to another guy who had the patience meanwhile my buddy still cruises bars to pick up girls. It goes both ways and I didn't mean to sound discriminating toward women at all. Now if a woman was being hit on by an extreme psychopath or someone they didn't connect with at all, its perfectly reasonable to reject the advances.

No, what I'M talking about is a situation that a lot of guys are familiar with. You know, your female friend bitching and complaining endlessly that they "can't find a good b/f" and go on one bad date after another plus you gotta listen to her about each disaster till 3 in the god damn morning. Then when you say that you yourself would make a good b/f they give the old "Like you but not that much" speech then continue to date losers, abusers and other lowlives. THAT'S when karma comes into play when you're finally given the chance by someone else and meanwhile your "friend" who passed you over is still single. Ask any guy who's been there and wanted to throw the keyboard or phone out the window because a girl they wanted won't stop bitching about how awful guys treat her yet won't give them a chance.

I'm friends with some women who've rejected me in the past and I respect them greatly....others not so much. I get a good laugh every now and then when I hear some get evicted or their unemployment was cut off or their baby daddy is in jail again or they got stood up on a date.
Do you ever stop to think the bitterness and massive sense of entitlement could be your problem? I've been there, so I totally get the anger, but you can't let it run your life.
 
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