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Approaching Women

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Mysti Mountains

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I hear from a lot of men that they have trouble approaching women most of the time.... especially when they are BHMs.... It seems that they think that women won't be accepting of a bigger guy, when there are tons of girls out there who would love to know that they are interested. In the last few weeks I have had 3 different guys tell me that they have watched my posts for years, but never worked up the nerve to say hello. So my question is...Do you find it easy or difficult to approach a woman, and why? and with the proliferation of the internet, is it harder or easier to approach the woman of your dreams?
 

djudex

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For me personally it's less that I have trouble working up the courage to approach women and more that I have trouble reading signals. I've been dinged a couple of times with thinking that women who are just being friendly and enjoying themselves may hold a deeper interest when they don't and that has made it tougher for me to trust my guy instincts in matters like this. For a lot of big men though I definitely think that fear of rejection is a key factor.
 

bayone

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I don't actually have any advice, I just wanted to say the subject header makes me picture a road sign: "NOW APPROACHING WOMEN." ;)
 

Mysti Mountains

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For me personally it's less that I have trouble working up the courage to approach women and more that I have trouble reading signals. I've been dinged a couple of times with thinking that women who are just being friendly and enjoying themselves may hold a deeper interest when they don't and that has made it tougher for me to trust my guy instincts in matters like this. For a lot of big men though I definitely think that fear of rejection is a key factor.
This makes me think of the clip I watched the other day of Jimmy Fallon completely not knowing that Nicole Kidman had been interested in him. Watch this funny exchange: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtsNbxgPngA[/ame]

He's thinking OMG I could have dated Nicole Kidman?!?!!
 

Mysti Mountains

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What usually happens with me is that I will be friends with someone online....they will say hello if they happen to see me in a chat room or something, then I won't hear from them for a few months. They pop up and say hello, ask what is going on in my life, and then if I tell them I am dating or something they say "Well, I guess I can't talk to you then" and my reply is "Why not?" and they usually end up telling me that they were interested in me, but they couldn't possibly be my friend NOW.....as if they were actually talking to me as if I was anything but an internet moment in the first place.....but the same thing happens in real life....if someone is really interested, I would hope they would do more than just say hello if they happen to run into me..... find a common interest and run with it....enjoy your life and don't be afraid to take a chance...and to the guys who say "no one would be interested in me....I'm too fat!" Well what the hell am I, chopped liver?
 

tankyguy

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So my question is...Do you find it easy or difficult to approach a woman, and why?
It is difficult simply because I know the numbers and being a gamer nerd, I can't stop doing cost-benefit analysis. Being a SSBHM disqualifies me for the lion's share of women. Being socially awkward and lower class are additional penalties, as is not having prior relationship experience. When I approach a woman, I have to weigh the risk versus reward; is she worth getting a drink thrown in my face or her making a humiliating public scene? Is she worth getting a slapped with sexual harassment at work for asking if she'd like to go out for coffee?

It's a fine line between getting to know a woman to determine how receptive she might be and if it is worth the risk to approach romantically and waiting too long and having that hurt your chances.


and with the proliferation of the internet, is it harder or easier to approach the woman of your dreams?
I think the internet has made it harder to approach women overall.

Consider the difference between someone taking the time to send a handwritten 'thank you' note versus a 'thank you' email.

Online interactions simply matter less; people give more weight to other forms of interaction. Approaching a woman (especially cold) is about making the right impression and simply making an impression. Approaching online simply stands out less compared to being in front of her, her having to look up to talk to you, smell your cologne, read your body language, etc.

It has also made women harder to approach in real life. Consider that the average woman is approached online much more often by random men (or just online friends wanting to chat it up) than she otherwise would be. Thus she's used to keeping her barriers up and, on a subconscious level, she's reacting to this increased demand for her attention even when she's just out walking around and this translates into her body language making her less approachable; a woman is simply more likely to be giving 'fuck off vibes' when a lot of guys speak to her, even if she wants them to.

Research shows the reverse is true for guys, however. Want women to talk to you? Surround yourself with female friends. :p


[EDIT Also if I spent less time online reading about the behavioral sciences and more obtaining money and status, I'd have more than just theory. :rolleyes: ]
 

ODFFA

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This isn't going to be a very incisive post. I just felt like saying....
I have an inkling of how most guys feel. For the majority of the relationship/crush-type situations I've experienced in my life, I did the approaching.

I feel like it's easy for a lot of women to underestimate everything that goes into being the expected initiator. Over and over again. While keeping yourself encouraged about the process, as djudex and tankyguy mentioned. Sometimes I wonder if women wouldn't be a little less harsh in their rejections if they understood this better.

The advice guys most often tend to get from other guys and from female friends is "don't give up!" I feel that's where the trick lies. Muuuuch more easily said than done, of course. So I, as a potential approacher, will not give up either. Though, right now my weary self can't help thinking.... it would be nice to be the approachee once in a while. And not only at the very beginning of the relationship.
 

agouderia

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Being socially awkward and lower class are additional penalties,
This is about the last thing I would assume when reading your post(s).


Consider the difference between someone taking the time to send a handwritten 'thank you' note versus a 'thank you' email.

Online interactions simply matter less; people give more weight to other forms of interaction.
This is definitely true. The ubiquitous availability of casual and more or less anonymous communication has made any P2P direct interaction not only much more valuable, but also more decisive. They shape our image of a person much more strongly.

A related personal and professional observation. I'm met many men - not surprisingly often print journalists - who were great at expressing their thoughts in writing, but could absolutely not transmit this in oral interaction. I've only ever met one woman where this was so strongly the case.

Also some men (size unrelated, and also just friends/colleagues, so no strings attached) are good conversationalists on the phone, but much less eloquent fact to face.

A psychologist once told me the latter might be related to very mild forms of Asperger's or face blindness, which much more men suffer from than women.

I often am also insecure whether I read all clues correctly I observe in communication with me. I'm much better at interpreting them as interaction between third parties.
 

tankyguy

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This is about the last thing I would assume when reading your post(s).
Not sure if sarcasm because I sound like a smug ass or something :)p) but I chose to take it as a genuine compliment.

But yes. I grew up and currently reside in a tiny fishing village. I only have a high school education and a couple of career college courses; a formal higher education wasn't something within my reach and I don't hold a degree. I'm not so brazen to claim to be an autodidact, but I constantly read online from a variety of subjects and kind people have paid me the compliment that I intuit concepts easily and absorb information like a sponge.

For a while I escaped and was able to hold down a professional lifestyle, mostly on luck, the raw talent I had and throwing myself into the work fully. The class differences with my co-workers were thrown into relief when I'd go out with them; they came from comfortable backgrounds for the most part and I was acutely aware of the dissonance whenever I'd think of dating.

Then the economic downturn in 2008 happened at the same time I made a bad career choice and well, things spiraled down from there and I'm back to zero.


A related personal and professional observation. I'm met many men - not surprisingly often print journalists - who were great at expressing their thoughts in writing, but could absolutely not transmit this in oral interaction.
This is very much the case with me.
I think though, if one can compose their thoughts, rehearse and practice conversing with the person they fancy, they can turn written skill into oral skill. 90% of being great at conversation is knowing what questions to ask the other person and being able to memorize and throw down some literary quotes that are apropos to the moment. The art of charisma can be described as interpersonal rope-a-dope mixed with confidence. :)
 

bbanditx79

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Well every guy big or small has a fear of rejection ... which when I've mentioned this in the past to some women friends they seem shocked.

To answer your question though I have a hard time approaching women (women I don't have any previous history with) in real life and can probably count on one-hand how many times I've ever done it. I do realize that's been part of the problem for me as it likely is for other guys (big and small) who don't do a lot of approaching of women since there is some truth to it being a numbers game of sorts where if you do it a lot more you're likely to get more successes along with the increase in failures. Another thing is I'm not a big club guy so that kills a lot of the chance to approach women in public since doing it in places where people are running errands like at the grocery store, gas station, Walmart, or etc seems kind of awkward to me.

When it comes to online dating or interactions I don't have any issues approaching women (again women whom I have no prior history with). I'm quite the good writer when I want to be so online can work great for me when I'm serious about it. I've done my share of online dating and have had success even if I know that it is a stacked deck since women online tend to get bombarded by guys especially on "free" dating sites as well as you loose some of the intangibles in online interactions that can make or break a woman moving forward in getting to know you.

For guy that don't like or do a lot of approaching women the internet can certainly help, but it comes with its own downsides. The best thing is to try and find that balance between online and offline which is the route I'm taking.
 

TheWolf87

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I think the internet has made it harder to approach women overall.

Consider the difference between someone taking the time to send a handwritten 'thank you' note versus a 'thank you' email.

Online interactions simply matter less; people give more weight to other forms of interaction. Approaching a woman (especially cold) is about making the right impression and simply making an impression. Approaching online simply stands out less compared to being in front of her, her having to look up to talk to you, smell your cologne, read your body language, etc.

It has also made women harder to approach in real life. Consider that the average woman is approached online much more often by random men (or just online friends wanting to chat it up) than she otherwise would be. Thus she's used to keeping her barriers up and, on a subconscious level, she's reacting to this increased demand for her attention even when she's just out walking around and this translates into her body language making her less approachable; a woman is simply more likely to be giving 'fuck off vibes' when a lot of guys speak to her, even if she wants them to.
I feel you. For me it is hard because I need a signal from a woman to consider approaching her. A simple smile or some eye contact would be enough. But it seems like all women out there are in a natural "fuck off" stance. Only paying attention to there mobilephones.. If they dont pay attention to their phones they look like they want to kill someone, have there arms crossed. There whole body language says: dont you dare approaching me.

If women would start to use their "advantage" and stop this typical "the man has to approach" thinking the dating game would become so much easier for everyone.

Alternatively men could gather up and stop approaching women on the internet :D That would make them way more open for new contact. I guess this will never ever happen.
 

agouderia

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Not sure if sarcasm because I sound like a smug ass or something :)p) but I chose to take it as a genuine compliment.
It is genuine.

If you do so much online learning - have you ever considered formalizing this, turning into an online degree? There are options these days that are inexpensive and from your writing I can only assume that something from your sphere of interests should lead to good results.
 

BChunky

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It's hard. Seems like the other guys that have responded to this post have the same problem. It's difficult to tell if a lady is interested. I'll fully admit I'm really poor at picking up if someone is interested.
 

bigmac

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... Do you find it easy or difficult to approach a woman, and why? and with the proliferation of the internet, is it harder or easier to approach the woman of your dreams?
Approaching random women is a very low percentage game. Unless you're the type of guy who doesn't give a shit about rejection its also likely to be somewhat soul destroying. Also, many women really dislike guys who try to hit on them when they're just out and about. Its a bit easier in social settings (i.e. parties or at the bar/club) where women expect to be propositioned and are likely to be in a more receptive frame of mind. But even then its best not to try too hard. When the opportunity presents itself say or do something interesting to get the target female's attention -- if she's interested she'll let you know.

The internet makes it easier to play the numbers game. Its easy to send multiple women short notes. Concentrate on those who respond and forget about those who don't.
 

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Amaranthine

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The signals thing seems like a pretty big issue all around. As a woman, I've had issues with it myself. Not picking up other people's signals...but men mistaking my friendliness for interest. When I'm out in public, I generally try to keep up an overall pleasant demeanor and smile at people. Just because, you know, most people look so closed off and unhappy. And it helps me be less anxious around people. But, in many cases, I've had people think I was interested when I really wasn't. I mean, I don't want to confuse the issue even more/let people down...yet I don't want to have to act colder to people.

There's also plenty of both women AND men who will flirt casually, as playful socialization that isn't intended to go anywhere. Which seemingly further complicates things. Like tankyguy said with the importance of forming an impression - if you don't have a good grasp on portraying yourself in a light that's at least a little "more than platonic", like subtle flirting and teasing, then women will often follow that lead unless they're very interested/somewhat bold from the get-go. Outright stating your interest, while very practical, tends to end that "I THINK I know but I'm not quite sure!" period of interaction that can be compelling. (If it doesn't end it, uh, you're just dealing with an outrageous amount of self-doubt on their part...)

Online dating is bittersweet. On one hand, it allows people to be connected to a much larger network than they would be otherwise and eliminates some of the stress of initiating. But I think it has a tendency to dehumanize people. Women typically get a lot of messages, and when you're dealing with that much interest, it's easy to ignore anything that doesn't fit closely to your ideal and forget that there's an actual, emotional human being on the other end of the interaction. So it may be easier to send out messages, but harder to truly capture someone's attention unless you already embody what they want (and can successfully capture that in your profile/message.)

But, on the other end (that no one actually asked about, admittedly,) I feel as if it's much easier to approach people on the internet as a woman. Especially as an FFA who would be apprehensive about a BHM questioning my motives/genuineness in person...especially because it would be awkward to come right out and voice my preferences. (Well, hi there. Do you come here often? By the way, those extra few hundred pounds look just wonderful on you!)
 

loopytheone

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I think you guys have to bear in mind as well that there are a lot of reasons that a girl might reject you and not all of them are to do with you yourself. I've turned down a lot of men because, er, well, I'm asexual and for the most part not interested in the hassle of a relationship. Perhaps the lady you are talking to already has a partner, or is a lesbian. Things like that are obviously no reflection on you as a person at all and would happen regardless even if you were the handsomest, richest, etc man in the world.

Just a thought for all you guys out there.
 

Fat Molly

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Slate Star Codex had an equally incendiary retort to the Laurie Penny thing.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/

The montage of neckbeard memes from Tumblr originally drew my attention to it.
:\
Yeah I read the SSC response, which left me unsatisfied in some ways. A couple of other articles had responses I liked with fewer reservations. Anyway I did take note of the situation with regards to intersections of fatness and this discussion re: Aronson.
 

Fat Molly

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I think you guys have to bear in mind as well that there are a lot of reasons that a girl might reject you and not all of them are to do with you yourself. I've turned down a lot of men because, er, well, I'm asexual and for the most part not interested in the hassle of a relationship. Perhaps the lady you are talking to already has a partner, or is a lesbian. Things like that are obviously no reflection on you as a person at all and would happen regardless even if you were the handsomest, richest, etc man in the world.

Just a thought for all you guys out there.
Yes. This. And even among women who are non-monogamous/ poly, any of the above might still be relevant.
 
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