Describing "Fat" in a way that is decent and preserves the dignity of others

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happily_married

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have you ever thought that maybe if people top assuming right away that it is something hurtful people will eventually be able to stop feeling hurt. what if folks could say it like it wasn't a bad thing? people are always asking how they can be helpful. well this just might be a way.

assuming fat will be a hurtful description probably isn't really very helpful at all. avoidance doesn't help anyone to evolve and to see that they are ok fat. they need positive energy to counter the negative not a silence that masquerades as agreement.
What makes you think I'm assuming anything? That's sort of an assumption in and of itself, and it's not an accurate one either. I've know people who genuinely are fine with the term "fat" but I've never actually had a partner who was. And I knew they were not okay with the term because I either asked directly or it came out on its own. But I never assumed one way or the other.

I once tried something with my wife. I actually told her I loved how fat she was. I said I hoped she understood how I don't consider it a bad thing, that it was used as a compliment, and that I hoped she would recognize such. She just cried. Later we talk about it and she said, "What if I genuinely believed the word 'asshole' was a compliment?" To her there is still a stigma. Some people are immune to it. Good for them. Others are not, and that is something we should respect.

Before I was married I had a few different girlfriends with whom I had similar conversations. On couldn't exactly identify why the word was hurtful but she just knew it was. I remember another said it made her sound lazy and stupid when in truth she was a very industrious and intelligent person. She was right, though, the word conjures up an image of slothfulness and a lack of intelligence.

So please know I ask this question not assuming anything. I've explored this directly and have achieved fairly similar results from person to person.

NO, Fat Acceptance isn't about mollycoddling people that have bought into the anti-fat messages promulgated by the diet, medical, pharma, fashion, and media industries. It's about telling people it's OK to be fat, and you can only do that by reclaiming the word "fat". Use it and show the world that it's only a harmless adjective, like "tall", "short", or "thin".
And this discussion is not a discussion purely on fat acceptance. That is a very specific movement with clearly stated objectives. While some of those may overlap into the realm discussed on this thread, the relationship is entirely coincidental.

Further, this isn't about "mollycoddling" either. To find a way to describe someone in such a way they feel their dignity and respect as a human being is upheld is not "mollycoddling." Not even close. It's simply a matter of being a decent person to others. If someone doesn't like the term and you are able to use another to accomplish the same goal but with less/no stigma, would you not use it? Or are you too hung up on de-stigmatizing a word that you'll sacrifice the emotions and feelings of others to make your point?

SuperO, musicman - this is the difference between activism and functioning communication in practice...
Spot on post. Thank you for contributing this. I hope people will see the value in what you've said here. Communication is very much a two-way street. If people aren't on the same frequency...:doh:
 

bigmac

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NO, Fat Acceptance isn't about mollycoddling people that have bought into the anti-fat messages promulgated by the diet, medical, pharma, fashion, and media industries. It's about telling people it's OK to be fat, and you can only do that by reclaiming the word "fat". Use it and show the world that it's only a harmless adjective, like "tall", "short", or "thin".

...

Yes -- its far better to say my significant other is a hot fat chick than it is to use any of the thinly veiled euphemisms.
 

musicman

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And this discussion is not a discussion purely on fat acceptance. That is a very specific movement with clearly stated objectives. While some of those may overlap into the realm discussed on this thread, the relationship is entirely coincidental.

Further, this isn't about "mollycoddling" either. To find a way to describe someone in such a way they feel their dignity and respect as a human being is upheld is not "mollycoddling." Not even close. It's simply a matter of being a decent person to others. If someone doesn't like the term and you are able to use another to accomplish the same goal but with less/no stigma, would you not use it? Or are you too hung up on de-stigmatizing a word that you'll sacrifice the emotions and feelings of others to make your point?

You asked a question, and I answered it. Why do you feel the need to question my motivation? We may disagree, but I don't question YOUR motives. We're all here to help fat people. I'm sorry that you have to watch your tongue around your wife, but I still maintain that avoiding a word like "fat" will simply reinforce its negative connotation, which is good for the fat-haters but not for us. The diet and weight loss scammers would love to have that word all to themselves. And suppose you find the perfect substitute word. Won't the anti-fat messages simply change to use that word instead? What will you do then?

To me, fat acceptance isn't some radical utopian agenda. It's mostly just self-acceptance. We'll never be able to stop the anti-fat messages as long as there is so much profit in making people feel inferior. But we can help fat people innoculate themselves from those toxic messages. We can start to take away the audience for those messages. But we can't be afraid to use the same language they use.

I want fat people, one by one, to wake up and say, "Yes, I'm fat, but so what? You're short (or tall, or thin). I'm no better or worse than you just because I'm fat. I may or may not lose weight, but I will do it for my own reasons, and not because of irrelevant bullsh*t in the media. I will not waste my money on every diet scam that appears, because I know that none of them have more than a 5% chance of success and many of them can be quite harmful. I will not accept the substandard medical care I receive when my doctor blames everything on my weight and refuses to do a proper diagnosis. I will not jump on the latest weight loss drug even if it's FDA approved, because I know the FDA will approve anything if enough money changes hands." (Ever heard of fen-phen? How many people suffered irreparable heart damage due to that FDA-approved drug?)

I would hope that everyone here wants something like that. I've seen this awakening actually happen to people, on here and at NAAFA and elsewhere. So don't question my motives because I didn't answer your question in a manner which validates your pre-conceived biases. Open your mind up to alternative viewpoints.
 

superodalisque

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SuperO, musicman - this is the difference between activism and functioning communication in practice.

For communication to work you need a transmitter and a receiver who are tuned in on the same wave length.

If you say to someone who's fat and hates it: "Oh, you're fat and it's so beautiful," - the person will at best take it as bitter irony, more likely zone out immediately. Your message fat=beautiful, positive will never make it into the other person's conscious because either he/she will have switched off the receiver totally or the message will have been drowned in negative interferences.

So the message intention might be laudable - but you'll never get it across because you're using a communicative wave length the receipient refuses or is unable to tune into. You might as well be speaking Ancient Greek or whichever other language your counterpart doesn't speak.

It's something totally different if you say: 'I'm fat and it's good because ..." - then the counterpart has a chance of reflecting the message since it doesn't affect him/her intimately.

Changing the communication code of a society single-handedly is unrealistic. Change comes slowly, subversively by using existing, understood patterns.

There are many examples for this out there. One of the most recent and successful is the de-stigmatization of the term 'gay'. The term became positive or at least normal not because of forcing people to come out of the closet - but because of those who came out themselves and used it as a postive, normal reference for themselves.
there is no difference if you have social skills and communicate properly with people. hopefully sane people don't just go around pointing at people and saying "fat" with no lead in or explanation. everything is done in a context and how you communicate shapes that context. if you are fat or you claim to support fat people you are or should be an activist and probably will be whether you like it or not anytime you stand up for yourself or anyone else. like it or not you are responsible for setting the correct tone. otherwise you are another member of the silent consent to fatphobia pure and simple.

changing the context is not unrealistic if you practice your communication skills. what is truly unrealistic is expecting the society around you to change without changing yourself. be the change.

PS: you made your point for me. things changed for the LGBT community because they and their allies took the stigma away.

fat people are not the LGBT community. there are more of us. we are NOT a minority group. no one has lynched killed or jailed us for being fat. people have been married to fat folk for centuries. fat people could always adopt children and live anywhere they wanted. the problem developed recently and it can be solved today if people would stop finally stand up and stop being scared of nothing but a nasty look or comment etc... but there are those in the community who benefit from the stigma and the otherness and refuse to face a little social discomfort for it to be totally removed. actually after all of this time i don't think it is in their personal interest for it to be removed. if it were they would make it their job to change things for the better instead of always being additional opposition to the change that has to happen.
 
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superodalisque

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You asked a question, and I answered it. Why do you feel the need to question my motivation? We may disagree, but I don't question YOUR motives. We're all here to help fat people. I'm sorry that you have to watch your tongue around your wife, but I still maintain that avoiding a word like "fat" will simply reinforce its negative connotation, which is good for the fat-haters but not for us. The diet and weight loss scammers would love to have that word all to themselves. And suppose you find the perfect substitute word. Won't the anti-fat messages simply change to use that word instead? What will you do then?

To me, fat acceptance isn't some radical utopian agenda. It's mostly just self-acceptance. We'll never be able to stop the anti-fat messages as long as there is so much profit in making people feel inferior. But we can help fat people innoculate themselves from those toxic messages. We can start to take away the audience for those messages. But we can't be afraid to use the same language they use.

I want fat people, one by one, to wake up and say, "Yes, I'm fat, but so what? You're short (or tall, or thin). I'm no better or worse than you just because I'm fat. I may or may not lose weight, but I will do it for my own reasons, and not because of irrelevant bullsh*t in the media. I will not waste my money on every diet scam that appears, because I know that none of them have more than a 5% chance of success and many of them can be quite harmful. I will not accept the substandard medical care I receive when my doctor blames everything on my weight and refuses to do a proper diagnosis. I will not jump on the latest weight loss drug even if it's FDA approved, because I know the FDA will approve anything if enough money changes hands." (Ever heard of fen-phen? How many people suffered irreparable heart damage due to that FDA-approved drug?)

I would hope that everyone here wants something like that. I've seen this awakening actually happen to people, on here and at NAAFA and elsewhere. So don't question my motives because I didn't answer your question in a manner which validates your pre-conceived biases. Open your mind up to alternative viewpoints.
i agree. i would be more likely to question the motivation of someone who comes here and does not want to be a part of a positive change. what IS the point other than being exploitive of the situation as it stands.
 

happily_married

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You asked a question, and I answered it. Why do you feel the need to question my motivation? We may disagree, but I don't question YOUR motives.
You implied my approach was "mollycoddling." I addressed that. SuperO made some assumptions that were not true and I addressed them. I pose a question, all are welcome to respond, and all, myself included, are welcome to respond to the responses. This is what we call a discussion.

We're all here to help fat people. I'm sorry that you have to watch your tongue around your wife, but I still maintain that avoiding a word like "fat" will simply reinforce its negative connotation, which is good for the fat-haters but not for us. The diet and weight loss scammers would love to have that word all to themselves. And suppose you find the perfect substitute word. Won't the anti-fat messages simply change to use that word instead? What will you do then?
There is nothing to be sorry about. I tried an approach that sounds like it is more consistent with an approach you favor. It didn't work. The take away is it doesn't matter how I view the term, or anyone else for that matter. All conversations are a two-way (at minimum) engagement. I'm just part of that. What I say and intend is actually irrelevant to a great degree. How it is received is what is relevant.

As for the perfect "substitute word" I don't believe your question follows logic. Just because I use a more acceptable word doesn't mean people are going to adapt to it as well. "No Plus-Size Chicks" instead of "No Fat Chicks" on the bumper stickers of lifted pickup trucks? Probably not.:rolleyes:


To me, fat acceptance isn't some radical utopian agenda. It's mostly just self-acceptance. We'll never be able to stop the anti-fat messages as long as there is so much profit in making people feel inferior. But we can help fat people innoculate themselves from those toxic messages. We can start to take away the audience for those messages. But we can't be afraid to use the same language they use.
I actually agree that self-acceptance is the long pole in the tent of fat acceptance. But finding descriptive language that does not convey a negative image is a big part of that. Like I've explained, I've tried an approach closer to what you seem to advocate and it didn't seem to work. I'm glad it has worked for you, just remember your experience is not universal.

I would hope that everyone here wants something like that. I've seen this awakening actually happen to people, on here and at NAAFA and elsewhere. So don't question my motives because I didn't answer your question in a manner which validates your pre-conceived biases. Open your mind up to alternative viewpoints.
This isn't a matter of questioning your motives. It's a statement of disagreement with your motives. That's okay to do, right? This is again, how a discussion works. Plus you say you haven't questioned my motives, yet dismiss my approach as "mollycoddling." You don't actually expect people to just nod their head and say, "Yeah, you're right about that." do you? I encourage you to follow your own advice, and open YOUR mind to alternate view points.
 

happily_married

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i agree. i would be more likely to question the motivation of someone who comes here and does not want to be a part of a positive change. what IS the point other than being exploitive of the situation as it stands.
How do you define "positive change?"
 

FluffyButterfly80

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As a newb to the whole fat acceptance/self acceptance thing- I am one of the people who is still sensitive to being called fat. Yes... I'm fat. LOL But I just can't get comfortable being called fat. I know it's because of the stigma we are all talking about here.

I understand that it's just a physical trait. But I still feel hurt if and when i hear someone call me or even just describe me as fat. I remember once in high school I was in the back of the room and for whatever reason someone came into the room looking for me...and i heard the person that pointed me out describe me as "the bigger girl over there in the back".... and I remember feeling crushed by that.

I don't think there are any synonyms that will make it any better. LOL And that's because I'm just not there yet.

I feel like as someone said earlier it is gonna vary from person to person.
 

bluetech

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I prefer to use the term 'plus size'. It is a common term that everyone understands, but isn't actually a euphemism like some other terms in common use like 'curvy'. It simply states that they are of a size that is greater than some other size, yet using the word 'plus' implies that the size in question is a positive thing, as opposed to terms like overweight that imply that the person is 'over' the weight that they 'should be'.
 

superodalisque

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As a newb to the whole fat acceptance/self acceptance thing- I am one of the people who is still sensitive to being called fat. Yes... I'm fat. LOL But I just can't get comfortable being called fat. I know it's because of the stigma we are all talking about here.

I understand that it's just a physical trait. But I still feel hurt if and when i hear someone call me or even just describe me as fat. I remember once in high school I was in the back of the room and for whatever reason someone came into the room looking for me...and i heard the person that pointed me out describe me as "the bigger girl over there in the back".... and I remember feeling crushed by that.

I don't think there are any synonyms that will make it any better. LOL And that's because I'm just not there yet.

I feel like as someone said earlier it is gonna vary from person to person.
i can understand that. what some of us are aiming at is the day when a beautiful woman just like you has heard fat but only mainly in a positive sense. we just want to start that ball rolling. hopefully maybe if you hear it used that way often enough you might feel better about it. if society hears us use that way enough it will also be changed.

i remember when a black woman no matter who they were or how they looked were supposed to be ugly. dark skin big lips and a big behind or thighs were supposed to be so awful. white men also wanted to have sex with black women on the DL. people who dated or interracially married faced a LOT of negativity. but when people started saying black is beautiful things began to change. it took some people a long time to believe it after being exposed to the opposite for so long. some still don't quite believe it just yet, but the atmosphere has definitely changed a lot from when it as okay for everyone to hate on black characteristics.

we just can't leave all of the comments about fat people in the hands of the fat phobics. it has to start changing somewhere even if it's just one baby step at a time. staying in the same place, as you well know, isn't going to help anybody. that's why you are trying to change your own outlook. people who want you to stay in that place and enable you to stay in that place are not your friends. they aren't on your side. they don't believe in you. they also wouldn't mind if you never felt equal. be very careful of people like that. they might seem harmless but they are very damaging. they get something out of your suffering. and that something is more important to them than you are.
 

one2one

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I still believe that people have a right to choose how they want to be referred to instead of forced to accept words that they're uncomfortable with or are likely to perpetuate prejudice. I understand the desire to reclaim words that have been used in demeaning ways and am all for it for the people who want to do that, but I also know that within any group perspectives will vary among individuals. In the end, none of us can control how other people experience things or how they feel. One size does not fit all.

I have a friend who is naturally tall and thin. She's 5' 11" and probably a size 4. I think 'thin' is a very benign descriptor, but for her it's a word that carries with it a lifetime of hurtful experiences. Of trying to gain weight in high school (unsuccessfully, even on cheeseburgers and malts) so she'd be asked out, of every comment in which it wasn't the word thin or skinny but the tone in which they were said that made peoples' negative opinions clear, and all the times someone has assumed she had an eating disorder.

I get that. I feel the same way about obese, for the same reasons. I don't have an eating disorder either, but there are people who will never believe that could be possible. I care about her feelings, and I don't use the word when I'm around her. I also don't chase after my friend who is arachnophobic with spiders, as though I were in charge of forcing her to undergo exposure therapy. It's the kind of thing people get to choose for themselves.

And it's not that I can't be loud and proud about my innate value and rights. If we could get together a group big enough to be effective, I would march on the American Medical Association as fast as I could get a flight to Chicago. I kid you, not.

I agree that building on small changes is important. I also agree that language is extremely powerful. I'm just not sure reclaiming 'fat' or holding national demonstrations will be the tipping point. The GLBT community worked for years to try to change legislation that is only changing now, many decades later. They were initially very unsuccessful with their petitions, until they began petitioning the Library of Congress to change the subject heading in library catalogs. They were able to get the see reference removed that connected homosexuality and lesbianism to sexual perversion. Which then led to declassifying them as pathologies in Psychiatric manuals. Both have to do with referring to them in more accurate and respectful ways, and that provides part of a stable foundation for significant, global change.

And I prefer the term goddess. :p
 

happily_married

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not being ashamed of being fat or with someone fat and a society that doesn't get to smell fear that they can use to victimize people every time the word is said.
I think you and I ultimately want the same thing. I would like to see "fat" itself de-stigmatized. Terms and language are a means to that end. Your approach and my approach differ, but I believe they work toward the same goal.

Some people are fast to assume ownership for the word "fat." It is still very damaging to others. What I like about my approach idiot holds all of society to a higher standard. If the word "fat" hurts some maybe we can phase it out and phase in the idea it is no longer socially acceptable to deride those who weigh more than society deems acceptable.

Also, at the beginning I said I have no use for political correctness. I don't want to see these changes in thought process imposed on anyone. What I wish we could see was people one by one deciding for themselves they will not indulge those who still scorn people due to weight.

A high ideal? Definitely. Doable? At least in my little part of the world it is.
 

edinwiddie

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Well for a woman I would use bountiful instead of fat. But most seem to think I'm being insincere. So I say we keep at it until Fat loses it's negative connotations.
 

superodalisque

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I think you and I ultimately want the same thing. I would like to see "fat" itself de-stigmatized. Terms and language are a means to that end. Your approach and my approach differ, but I believe they work toward the same goal.

Some people are fast to assume ownership for the word "fat." It is still very damaging to others. What I like about my approach idiot holds all of society to a higher standard. If the word "fat" hurts some maybe we can phase it out and phase in the idea it is no longer socially acceptable to deride those who weigh more than society deems acceptable.

Also, at the beginning I said I have no use for political correctness. I don't want to see these changes in thought process imposed on anyone. What I wish we could see was people one by one deciding for themselves they will not indulge those who still scorn people due to weight.

A high ideal? Definitely. Doable? At least in my little part of the world it is.

i doubt we really have anything much in common since i AM in actuality fat. being fat i also would never think it was okay to be ashamed of being fat. i don't castigate people who are trying to evolve but i definitely wouldn't pretend that being ashamed was a place were they should stay. myself and others help them along by releasing the from the shame. that makes people happy. happiness is the goal. pretending there is no such thing as fat doesn't release anyone from any of the negativity. it keeps them retarded in the shame and societal prejudice. everyone has had to be encouraged to leave their comfort zone to grow as a person. if we're always staying in the comfort zone we never learn anything new and we stay exactly where we are instead of making progress. by being ashamed of being fat all you do is give negative people more power over you to control your emotions.

and as a fat person i feel there is absolutely nothing in denying who and what i really am. it would be like trying to pass for white. it wouldn't be overcoming anything. it would be relinquishing my self worth and identity to prejudice and bowing down to bullies. there is nowhere to run or hide from the fact that people ARE fat. there is something deeply wrong with being ashamed of yourself which is why people come here--they feel that already.

fat is NOT a pejorative it is a fact. people ARE fat just like people are thin or tall or short. being ashamed of that is not healthy.
being PC is not an issue. being fat isn't a handicap, physical or mental challenge. it is just a size. the real issue is the negativity that people feel inside toward themselves. people will have something bad to say about you no matter what. as someone has already posted a woman has a problem with being called thin because of her experiences even though society says you can't be too thin. people have an issue with you being tall short and average. society has an issue with you if you are rich or poor. you can even be the societal idea of perfect and beautiful and people will still hate on you and try and victimize you. basically we are all running around hating on each other but especially ourselves. we have low self esteem and are always interpolating things about ourselves based on what we feel others think about us. we have to create a new and positive reality to live it. there is no safe place for anyone. so it's time to grow up. it's time to start living and loving ourselves as we are.
 
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superodalisque

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this fake idea of a nirvana where people expect that everyone is will be respected and treated in ways where they will always be comfortable within themselves is making people suffer. it's unrealistic. it does not exist. knowing that, what next? what gift can a fat person give to themselves ?
 

happily_married

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this fake idea of a nirvana where people expect that everyone is will be respected and treated in ways where they will always be comfortable within themselves is making people suffer. it's unrealistic. it does not exist. knowing that, what next? what gift can a fat person give to themselves ?
If you believe this, why are you arguing the points you are arguing over on the "MILF" thread. You are failing the consistency test, Ma'am. Not only that, but just because the ideal I seek may be a long shot for attaining, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Hell, we still have racism in our society. Just because we can never fully stamp it out doesn't mean we shouldn't expect society to tow the line at a level that respects others.

i doubt we really have anything much in common since i AM in actuality fat.
I can see why a lot of other members on other threads say you are condescending. I sought common ground and you are dismissive of it. And I suspect you are so with little to know actual critical thought, as evidenced by your inconsistency from one discussion to another.

The thing is, I do agree with you that the stigma can be mitigated to a great extend if people themselves take ownership for derogatory terms. That simply doesn't work for everyone, though. It's no more attainable than the approach I've advocated. The difference between you and I is I can actually recognize the legitimacy in someone else's point of view. You are either unwilling or unable to so the same.

Further arguing is pointless, especially when I consider us ultimately desiring the same basic end state. I simply have no use for people who cannot recognize the validity in someone else's argument, and make it a point to disengage when I realize what I'm dealing with.

Best wishes and happy hunting to you.
 

superodalisque

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If you believe this, why are you arguing the points you are arguing over on the "MILF" thread. You are failing the consistency test, Ma'am. Not only that, but just because the ideal I seek may be a long shot for attaining, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Hell, we still have racism in our society. Just because we can never fully stamp it out doesn't mean we shouldn't expect society to tow the line at a level that respects others.

I can see why a lot of other members on other threads say you are condescending. I sought common ground and you are dismissive of it. And I suspect you are so with little to know actual critical thought, as evidenced by your inconsistency from one discussion to another.

The thing is, I do agree with you that the stigma can be mitigated to a great extend if people themselves take ownership for derogatory terms. That simply doesn't work for everyone, though. It's no more attainable than the approach I've advocated. The difference between you and I is I can actually recognize the legitimacy in someone else's point of view. You are either unwilling or unable to so the same.

Further arguing is pointless, especially when I consider us ultimately desiring the same basic end state. I simply have no use for people who cannot recognize the validity in someone else's argument, and make it a point to disengage when I realize what I'm dealing with.

Best wishes and happy hunting to you.

i don't mind that other's think i'm condescending. from who it's coming from it's not that big of a deal to me. i put other people's opinions in their proper place. i'm just being straight. i just don't find much in common with average sized people who'd encourage fat people to keep bowing down to shame. we are just not on the same wave length. we are not going to agree on that. i don't hate you for it but it is what it is. and i'm not going to start agreeing with you so you'll like what i have to say or feel better about your position. take it or leave it.

no need to hunt. no need to wish you well or ill. it's not even about you.
 
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Skye23

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I have a tendency to call myself a fat chick, although I suspect its mostly due to the fact that using that term seems to switch to uncomfortableness in a situation from me to the other party. So if I'm offered a chair I know I'll break, or a booth I've got no chance in hell in fitting in I'll just tell the person trying to put me there that I'm a fat chick, and its not going to happen. They tend to sputter a bit.

Plus sized is more polite, goes down easier when used in public, is not likely to offend.

Although given the choice, I'd prefer to just be called Zaftig particularly since the origins of the word are a sort of slang for "Juicy".... I can live with being called plump and juicy - who doesn't like that?
 

happily_married

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I have a tendency to call myself a fat chick, although I suspect its mostly due to the fact that using that term seems to switch to uncomfortableness in a situation from me to the other party. So if I'm offered a chair I know I'll break, or a booth I've got no chance in hell in fitting in I'll just tell the person trying to put me there that I'm a fat chick, and its not going to happen. They tend to sputter a bit.
I think a lot have that as a defense mechanism on some level. A lot of people tend to be their own worst critics. As such they are often harder on themselves than they should be. (Then we have those who are completely void of self-criticism. I'd argue we've seen an example of that on this very thread. These are not not hard enough on themselves and often lack the ability to think critically of their own flaws. A healthy balance between self-critique and self-worth is a good thing.) My wife didn't like being referred to as a "fat chick" but often referred to herself as such. She is definitely her own worst critic, but will become defensive if an outsider levies against her the same critiques she levies at herself.

Plus sized is more polite, goes down easier when used in public, is not likely to offend.
I think plus sized is one of the better terms. It is not without its problems, though. When I hear the term, I immediately picture clothing items at Lane Bryant, where my 5'4" wife has often expressed frustration with designers of plus sized clothes because "not all fat chicks are 5'10" and taller!"

The term to me conveys images of tall women with larger features. I dated one briefly years ago. She was over 6' tall and had big everything. Big think torso, arms, hips, butt, boobs bigger than I knew what to do with! She also wore heels when she and I were out and about so the size disparity was greatly pronounced. Shorter girls I've dated have said plus size applies to taller women.

I'm not sure if there is a rule written somewhere formalizing this claim, but the designers at Lane Bryant seem to agree.

Although given the choice, I'd prefer to just be called Zaftig particularly since the origins of the word are a sort of slang for "Juicy".... I can live with being called plump and juicy - who doesn't like that?
Just saying plump and juicy will get my mind racing. It's quite sexy actually. :)
 
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