FA Frustrations

Discussion in 'BBW/FA Board' started by huge, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. Jan 17, 2015 #21

    Yakatori

    Yakatori

    Yakatori

    Hard to say, really...

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    Yeah, she might be projecting here:

    Not any kind of pick-up artist; but, just based on my own personal observation of compare and contrast amongst peers: The guys who're actually most "successful" at this, it's not because they have such a great deal of confidence or fight. Although, maybe just a bit more than average. Either just when it comes to this or in general.

    It really has more to do with how they don't really have so much invested in talking or negotiating with any one person. They literally approach hundreds if not thousands of people in the course of a week's time.

    Intuitively, they seem to know precisely just how much to put into a relationship as to barely maintain it. But, again, it's more about volume; against the odds of such a wide pool, they're practically guaranteed to "get lucky" with a (relatively) much more consistent frequency.
     
  2. Jan 17, 2015 #22

    Dr. Feelgood

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    This applies just as much to men as to women. I get a WHOLE lot more respect when I'm wearing a coat and tie; when I'm in a three-piece suit with a gold watch chain peeking out of my vest I can pretty much call the shots. And this also ties in with what the other posters have said about meeting women. I enjoyed considerable success back in the day, and I attribute much of it to the fact that I dressed the part: crisp shirt, freshly pressed slacks, hair washed, freshly shaved, just a hint of after shave. In other words, I projected an image of cleanliness and responsibility that would make most Boy Scouts look louche. I truly believe that clothes make the man (or woman) -- at least in the eyes of most of the world.
     
  3. Jan 17, 2015 #23

    Yakatori

    Yakatori

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    Hard to say, really...

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    This is a bit of a cop-out; because, as YoJoshua is beginning to touch-upon, you're conflating a whole series of intermediate steps that most people manage to negotiate without talking or thinking about it too much.

    I mean, just for a second, hypothetically, take it out of a dating or sexual context. And into networking. Or sales. Obviously, you're undercutting yourself to just walk up to anyone you have no previous history with only to ask them for something, anything, straight-away. (And yet, there ARE people who succeed in doing precisely that, just about every day). No, first you have to introduce yourself.

    And then you have to give them at least some opportunity in order to reciprocate. To articulate or somehow telegraph a language or set of terms through which the two of you can continue to relate towards each other.

    And then it can gradually progress beyond the scope of that original introduction, or whatever terms contained therein. To the extent that the other party is allowing it. For which you, of course, consider it to be out of your hands.

    Except, it really isn't because, among a myriad of other things, their decision is at least partly based on how you are behaving toward them. Generally, if you are attentive, polite, considerate, etc...people you are approaching will more so tend to mirror that behavior. And, to some extent, in contrast with...how they truly are, or what they're feeling, or what they think of you or your proposition. Although, again, at this particular stage, you shouldn't yet even be entering into any of that..

    Because, at this point, it's about getting in sync, learning each other's respective pace and adjusting accordingly. Giving only as much as they will readily take and, simultaneously, listening to and hearing them, being demonstrative of all of that.

    Obviously, some people are real good at all of this. They do it in a way that just makes it all look so simple. They read people & establish report in a relatively quick & efficient process. Still, it doesn't change the basic fact of how there are discrete steps involved.

    Once you fully appreciate that, & commit to it; only then can you really begin to go on about how receptive someone is or isn't to whatever you're selling. And, of course, after you repeat that process a few thousand times over; okay, then you have some better idea of the innate marketability of some particular product.

    So, yes, it’s fair to say that many woman, if not most people-in general, don’t like being approached by strangers. (Does anyone? What’s your reaction to seeing an unfamiliar number on your caller-ID? It’s a nuisance, an imposition, etc… ) However, the very object of the exercise in an introduction is to be able to move past that phase relatively quickly. In that sense, virtually every human relationship begins the same way, between two strangers meeting as such.

    You’re right in that there are situations where it's not really appropriate to ask someone out or hit on them. Probably many fewer where a simple, polite introduction is either frowned upon, or otherwise necessarily viewed within a context of some suspicion.

    However, it bears mentioning here that where lots "shy guys" tend to go wrong is in the idea of just perpetually looking at someone, staring & then looking away, without any word at all. Honestly, that frightens people, is more (vaguely) threatening in general, worse than any ham-handed type of approach. Really, that is a case of a shy person doing what's easiest, less-painful, etc...just for them. And necessarily at the expense of the feelings, comfort, etc...of the person they're dealing with.

    Seriously. If you see someone who you find more than mildly physically attractive, or even if they’re just a bit odd or different-looking, and you think you just might be a bit tempted to stare; instead, force yourself to first say something, like "Hey, how's going?...

    Or, "Excuse me, ... as you're walking past. Or even as a guy interacting with other guys, just a simple verbal acknowledgement delivered in the appropriately warm, relaxed tone can be very disarming.

    Also, I can appreciate the point of how for lots of guys, perhaps most average guys, that approaching women in the type of situations where it’s more expected feels easier, more comfortable. However, again, that something seems-easier, more comfortable, ect… is not really the same as it being advantageous. And so, hypothetically, for whatever group of people tends to take themselves out of that kind of milieu (night club, singles-event, mixer party, live music venue, etc…) it doesn’t really reduce the level of opportunity for connecting with them as such; but, in actuality, widens or broadens the range of it.

    Of course, if you're not prepared to take advantage in those kind of situations, then it probably makes no difference either way...
     
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  4. Jan 17, 2015 #24

    choudhury

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    Well, people should certainly dress however they want.

    I have two thoughts about this, though...first of all, 'comfort' is as much about what we're used to as something intrinsic to a piece of clothing or style of self-presentation. Often people describe dressing down as 'comfortable' for this reason, rather than because there is something physically uncomfortable about wearing more polished clothes (although I'll admit this isn't true of high heels, say). But 'comfortable' becomes a less convincing rationale (to the extent that a rationale is needed) when it's just rooted in the fact that I feel weird when I dress in a stylin' way, because I'm not used to it. Lots of things feel weird when we're not used to them, but it doesn't follow that we're better off avoiding them because of that.

    The other thought is that the thread is called 'FA frustrations,' and one of my personal frustrations as an FA is that a much smaller per centage of overweight women present themselves in the polished, stylish manner that I personally fine appealing. I'm sure lots of guys don't care if their lady dresses in sweat pants and sneakers, with minimal care given to their hair, etc., just as I'm sure many women don't care if their guy goes around in similar attire. But I personally tend to be a little more put together myself; I actually enjoy looking kinda sharp; and I find the same quality attractive in women. And for better or worse, yes, I do tend to think that self-esteem is one reason why so many fewer BBWs appear not to bother as much with self-presentation. Not the only reason, but one reason.

    Self-presentation is not the same as going 'girly,' incidentally - at least not in my book. I described a woman wearing a fashionable jacket and a scarf (I forget if she had on a skirt or whatever). It was the 'together' and tastefully statement-making way she presented herself that attracted me, not high heels and ruby red lipstick or something. Ultimately, an aesthetic sensibility is what I seem to be talking about.
     
  5. Jan 17, 2015 #25

    Marlayna

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    I only like very comfortable clothes, but they have to be clean and unstained, or else I'll look sloppy, and that says to people that I don't care about myself.
    For some reason, people treat you better when they see you care.
    When I was single and going out "man-hunting", I'd dress to the nines; sexy clothes, high heels, and an hour getting my hair and make-up just right.
    Now that I'm a married woman, I rarely put that much time and effort into my "presentation"... I guess I pulled a bait & switch on him. :p
     
  6. Jan 18, 2015 #26

    Dr. Feelgood

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    The most exciting thing after your honeymoon is finding out what sort of changeling the fairies left in place of the person you married. :)
     
  7. Jan 18, 2015 #27

    magodamilion

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    So how'd you manage to get an active dating life then? It sounds like you're essentially in the same boat as me. I'm asking in genuine curiosity because I'm not sure what to do really.

    Lately I've hit on so many BHM guys in bars and it never goes anywhere. They rarely even give me their numbers. Someone needs to develop some type of Pick Up Artist advice directed at women because no one ever seems to consider the problem of women who have no game at all. I'm nice and I give specific compliments not generic ones. I don't get what these guys issue is. I don't think it's insecurity like you all on here assume. There's a lot of diversity within the BHM population. They're not all skittish insecure people most of them are absurdly picky and I have no idea what they're looking for.
     
  8. Jan 18, 2015 #28

    bigmac

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    This only works on some men. I made a conscious effort to avoid women who couldn't get ready in 15 minutes or less or who spent an inordinate amount of money on clothes.
     
  9. Jan 18, 2015 #29

    Marlayna

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    I don't blame you, waiting on a primper is annoying. Men who primp are especially bad, imo.
     
  10. Jan 19, 2015 #30

    loopytheone

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    Whilst I do understand what you are saying I don't think you fully understand how uncomfortable certain clothes can be for other people, especially BBW. For a start, I was talking about physical comfort rather than psychological comfort, though I admit I didn't make that clear.

    For me personally, any type of trousers with a button at the front are physically painful. So I don't wear jeans and haven't in years. Same with a belt. I don't know how big you are so I don't know if this is something you would be familiar with, but when you have a belly and you sit down, your belly will spill over the belt/button and it will dig painfully into the underside of your stomach. I have had bruises from buttons when I sit down like that, even if the waistband is loose standing up. I also don't and wont wear trousers/skirts that don't have an elastic waistband (again, when you sit down the material is pulled backwards to accommodate your rear and so cuts your stomach in half) or that fasten around the waist rather than the hips, as my stomach is extremely sensitive and any kind of pressure there is physically painful to me.

    I also don't wear bras all the time as the sides of them cause me bruising and sores. And I've not been able to wear a button up blouse of any kind since I was a teenager as my size 20 chest and size 14 waist make shirts either expose my breasts or look like some sort of tent. As for shoes, I have inflamed tendons in my feet and need the added support that trainers give.

    For the record, I wear dresses, skirts, boots etc quite regularly. But I don't think that a lot of people understand that when they expect somebody who is bigger to be 'fashionable' or wear a certain type of clothing, they are often asking them to wear something that is physically painful for them. And I don't think it is fair to judge somebody negatively because they don't want to be in pain. And comfortable clothes can be 'stylish', as you put it. I like to think I have a very keen aesthetic taste. But you wont see me in smart trousers and a blouse because those are painful or impractical for me.

    Not that I am saying you are wrong to have a preference, not at all. You keep on looking after those stylish ladies, I'm sure they are very beautiful!
     
  11. Jan 20, 2015 #31

    GypsySummers

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    I apologize this is so long! My thoughts were fluid and I noticed not the length whilst I typed. But I feel like I should interject somewhat on the fashion front with some background knowledge. I myself am larger than "average woman" and have always struggled to find cute clothes as well. I was always disgruntled at the fashion industry for not providing more options and all the other points y'all made so I honestly know the struggle and frustration. But then I got a job IN the fashion industry.
    I was the assistant to a fashion designer for two years. And even one who started specializing in clothes for big breasted women. Then I found out the truth and what they said turned out to be legitimate. When you make a bigger size of a style, you are not simply "using a little more fabric". Quite the contrary. Aside from it being a much more significant fabric usage due to the yards of fabric needed to lay the size appropriate markers down and scrap error, in order to make a garment of any size, it goes to a sample maker, a pattern maker, a marker THEN contractors (the cutters and sewers and dyers and whatnot). The problem starts with the patterns and markers. When you enlarge a size, you are not simply adding an inch around each side or anything like that. You are redesigning it. You have to take into account many things, like belly size will make the shirt rise and shorter or the pants higher, arm placements and shapes will be different, necklines different., etc. Bigger bodies aren't made like skinny bodies but with just a few inches symmetrically bigger. Larger bodies are a whole different ball game and shape (a beautiful and delicious ball game but different nonetheless).


    And that's where all those terribly fitted plus sizes clothes come from that we complain about. From companies trying to put out those sizes while being able to afford it. Because in order to be able to afford production, companies WILL try to cut corners and just add those inches here and there without reformulating the patterns and markers. And what do you get? Clothes that do.not.fit right to a real body.


    There are a lot of designers out there with integrity for quality of work and would LIKE to, in a perfect world, be able to mass produce every size. Of course. Profit and more people wearing your clothes. But it is not always possible with the costs of production. Period. People go bankrupt trying. So instead of putting out terribly fitted clothes, they won't make plus size. Huge companies with the dough could afford to, but with them, it's not so much about money (even though it still is) but about target demographics and company goals.


    And the whole thing with Old Navy's men's plus being same price? Men's clothing is different in that men don't generally care how good their butt looks in those pants (aka, allowing for more tolerance of ill-fitting garments that cut those corners) or quality of production and material.



    It sucks. It does. But it's not the designers being haters. The majority of designers are broke as a joke. You wouldn't BELIEVE the costs of designing and producing. It's ludicrous. They have so many things they would love to do but simply cannot. I've been on both sides and it ain't pretty from either unfortunately. I just wanted to share my experience and knowledge :)


    As far as dating? I agree with all the points made. Mostly about lack of confidence from both admirer and the big and beautiful. Our culture makes us feel ashamed. It really does. It's tough. I've dated non-FA people . Some who tried to change me and some who seemed to try and accept me but then I could sense awkwardness in situations where my size came up. Like when they'd introduce me to certain people or when certain situations came up like swimming, they seemed uncomfortable, even upset. One FA who left me for a bigger girl (Boy is that a weird experience to be told by the world you are too big but then told from someone you like that you just aren't big enough.) and I dated one bbw who all she could talk about was how disgusting she felt and looked even though I told her she wasn't. She would always ask what was wrong with me or what my ulterior motive was. It was a daily and weary thing. I guess everyone would say dating can suck but I can't help but feel FA and BBP have extra complications than the average bear.
     
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  12. Jan 21, 2015 #32

    Amaranthine

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    Like I said, I wouldn't have dated nearly as many people (most likely) if I hadn't also dated some average sized/non-BHM men. In a, "I realize this probably won't work but I like you so much as a person!" kind of way. Or, for the more casual dates, an "eh, why not?" kind of way.

    I can't say I've ever tried hitting on anyone in bars. You might want to try the internet; both more traditional dating sites like OkCupid, and then sites that would specifically attract BHM. It's a little easier to structure your approach through text. You could also try hitting up non-bar venues, depending on the personality type you tend to enjoy. I've often gone for nerdier guys and, well, not to make too much of an assumption, but I'd be surprised if you went to a local board-game shop DnD/tabletop game session and DIDN'T find a BHM.
     
  13. Jan 21, 2015 #33

    Lamia

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    Case in point. I ordered a 7X gown for my nieces wedding. We had already ordered one that wasn't the right fit and color and it was down to the wire, so I ended up with a gown that the arms were WAYYY to tight and short and was about 2 feet too long. I am 5'7 so I assume they thought someone 7x would be 7 foot tall? It's hard to find pretty clothes that fit right. I need to find a tailor. :smitten:
     
  14. Jan 22, 2015 #34

    Azrael

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    a thread about FA frustrations is....now a thread about clothing, how wonderful...

    ANYWAYS, yea it's extremely frustrating.
    I not only like larger woman, I'm also a feeder.
    As a result of this, my dating pool is very limited as it happens to be a rather rare fetish which if I don't express in a relationship it is sure to end up eventually sabotaging the relationship or making me miserable.

    It's a particularly difficult thing to deal with but for now I'm not in the financial place to even deal with THAT frustration so it's kinda on the back burner.
     
  15. Jan 22, 2015 #35

    The Orange Mage

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    Take it from my experience: it is infinitely better to be in a relationship with much smaller feedee than a relationship with a non-feedist fat woman.
     
  16. Jan 22, 2015 #36

    Lamia

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    Well, one of the frustrations was why fat people dress so sloppily. It wasn't out of the blue. I am not sure why there is a need for being an ass about it, because it wasn't a topic you're interested in.
     
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  17. Jan 22, 2015 #37

    joswitch

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    Advice, to women on how to pull men in bars, it's not so much about what you say, as what you do. Talk is cheap! Deeds, not just words! :

    To start off, "when first making contact": If the man in question has learned to "read" people, and he is on the look-out, if you catch his eye and you find each other desirable, then it's all about "the look*".

    What is "the look*"? It's hard to describe in words, but when women look at you like this, locking eye contact for a few heartbeats - it's like a lightning strike. It's a blazing and inviting look, at once lustful and tender, completely unembarrassed.

    So, you can learn how to give that look^^ ;)

    And/or it sounds like you have already reached the point where you are conversing with the guys you are interested in?
    While you are talking, make lots of eye contact, initiate (initially non-sexy bits, obviously) touching - e.g. put your hand on their forearm as you talk. In a crowded bar you have the advantage of "Oops, I appear to be all pressed up against you, oh gosh" :p
    Try to read their response, including body language etc.

    (N.B.: If you're someone who has a tendency to ask new acquaintances lots of personal questions when you first meet - dial that way down! No-one like to feel "interrogated" and it's easy to make someone feel suspicious if you hit them with a barrage of questions.)

    If you are out with all your girlfriends and you have been laughing it up together before you went to hit on the BHM you're interested in, he may suspect you are hitting on him as a joke / prank. To which end - look for tension especially in the shoulders (are his shoulders "shrugged up" tightly around his neck? Almost everyone does this when tense). You can be blatant and say "Oh, you look tense - can I give you a shoulder massage?" because, hey everyone loves a good shoulder / neck / back rub :) That can actually apply as an ice-breaker, even if he is not particularly tense. Is good excuse for sensual, intimate (but not necessarily sexy, altho' it can be) touching.

    And once you are in one-on-one conversation, look for "the moment" when it's time for a kiss - you'll be talking face-to-face, close to one another and making eye contact, both with open facial expression. At some point there will be a natural "beat" or pause in the conversation, best of all just after you have both laughed together - lock eye contact again, and if eye contact is returned, don't say anything else, but lean in for the kiss. If there is some making out, great! Do not leave without saying something like "I really like you, and I'd like to see you again - give me your number so we can get together soon ".

    Hope that helps some. :) Best of luck!

    (*Fair comment this is entirely based on my own experience, in the past, before people spent all their time looking at their mobile phones when they were out in pubs :doh: Happy days. Including a few occasions when "the look" was so strong the whole conversation thing got skipped. :D No convo before kissing is a good way to meet crazy peeps tho' :p )
     
  18. Jan 22, 2015 #38

    joswitch

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    To address the OP:

    Let me put it this way: my current love-life is like the graviton - entirely hypothetical :p :D

    Echoing what a few others have said, who I find desirable (FA) and what revs my engine (bit of a feeder :p ) really narrow down my potential dating pool, given current widespread attitudes. Add to that my being a bit of a weirdo, who has no real interest or desire for most of the normal things most people want and consider to be the basic default life-script (car, mortgage, marriage etc.). And I'm real poor, atm. Also, have been a bit of a nocturnal hermit for the last year or two. And I'm kinda pre-occupied with working on my magnum opus.... ;)

    "We are detecting systemic incompatibility issues, captain!" :D

    So, I've just not really bothered dating lately. This doesn't really bother me, on account of having been in love with and loved back by some very lovely lasses in my past, so I don't have a sense of having missed out or anything. Maybe I'll get back into dating in the future, I don't know. It's all good, I got stuff to take care of. :)
     
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  19. Jan 22, 2015 #39

    Yakatori

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    It wasn't at all, not in the least. I mean, it spoke directly; and fairly-well, I think; to something people were already talking about.

     
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  20. Jan 23, 2015 #40

    Jon Blaze

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    Every preference has its nuances. I don't think it makes my dating life frustrating per se, but it's a component of the many things that make romance the beautiful struggle that it is.
     

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