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Observer

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If you were familiar with "Baby Fat" before its removal (I frankly wasn't) you know that its content was far more graphic and fantasy oriented than mere weight gain before age 18.

The intended audience of this story obviously included those who would enjoy pedophilia and that was obvious within seconds of perusing it. The fact that it was not detected and removed far earlier because no one is actively overseeing the old archives doesn't make it acceptable.

I assure you, if Conrad had felt that this was an appropriate story after my calling it to his attention it would have been retained because he was the one who had to yank it. Instead it was gone in minutes.
 

Gendo Ikari

The Intellectual
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It had been on there for years. Seems completely pointless to make such a big deal about something now, and then have it removed after all this time. Especially since many of the stories on here have characters that are under 18 that gain.
Why didn't you do anything about it?
 

AJTano

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However, I will say that I trust the judgment of the mods. It seems to me that the rules here only exist to keep things legal. I'm not insinuating that there are no higher ethical feelings at work, but I'm sure the primary reason the story was deleted was that the legality of hosting it was questionable. I don't have a problem with losing the occasional story in order to keep the fine collection of stories here around.
I'm pretty sure that it is a decision entirely based on ethics. I would be very surprised if any story were illegal to host, even if it went as far as to include rape and murder of young children.
 

Observer

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It is first and foremost ethical - Conrad's ethics along with input of others including the mod team..

That said, it should be noted that there is a practical aspect: although Dimensions is an adult site it is not in any way pornographic or supportive of pedophilia. Accordingly it is allowed in certain search engines and protected filtering schemes which automatically reject such sites.
 

Vader7476

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The story didn't have any pedophilia in it, unless you want to make the argument for one paragraph(Where nothing happens or is described) which could have easily been just removed without ruining the story or flow.
 

Observer

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Pedophilia is not limited to portrayal of actual sexual contact or fantasies, although that is the most common meaning and certainly the technical medical definition. In a broader sense it includes any and all fantasies of an erotic or arousing nature relative to minors.

This story focused on the anatomy and weight gaining activities of a four year old and thereafter in far more than just one paragraph. As such it was appealing to erotic and arousing patterns, commonly called wanking, relative to a minor protagonist. We’re just not going to be knowingly contributing to such interests.

The easiest way to avoid falling off a cliff is to stay away from the edge.

End of debate.
 

Vader7476

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If you're going to describe it as that, then you have no control over anything. Then it's up to the individual and what they do. And as such, I must burst that delusional bubble once again and reiterate: You have countless stories on this site that include the weight gain of minors.

You have and continue to knowingly contribute to those interests, and the fact that story was posted in the first place, years upon years ago and was available the entire time is testament to that. Stop acting so haugty.
 

Observer

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Since the adoption of the present rules in mid-2006 I'm quite sure there have been no stories as explicit as Baby Fat added to the collection. About two dozen were purged from the Forum at that time.

The Weight Room collection is another story. I cannot say there are no unsuitable stories in the Weight Room collection since no one has systematically gone through that archive since adoption of the current guidelines.

What I can offer is this: if you or anyone else note any tales in either collection that you feel inappropriately features minors I would request and appreciate your furnishing me with a link via PM.
 

Phrozen

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Actually, I must agree with Vader. Aren't there an abundance of "high-school girl" characters in many of the stories around here? High school guys too, seeing as a lot of the time there happens to be something about a jock the girl falls in love with or some odd tale of revenge.

Do these stories get off simply because they may not specify age or is there another reason?

(And I am in no way suggesting none of these such stories are good. In fact a number of them I have thoroughly enjoyed)
 

WildFox500

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If we're speaking from an ethical standpoint, there's a huge difference between a 4 year old protagonist and a high school protagonist. Doing anything with one results in being burned at the stake while doing anything with the other often results in a high five.
 

Vader7476

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The rules about minors was there far before 2006. I definitely remember it being there before the forum showed up. My main point is that if they've been on for so long, why not just give them and those authors a pass?

Observer, do you have a list of the ones purged?

If we're speaking from an ethical standpoint, there's a huge difference between a 4 year old protagonist and a high school protagonist. Doing anything with one results in being burned at the stake while doing anything with the other often results in a high five.
If a 30 year old has sex with a 16 or 17 year old, he's not getting a high five. Which brings me to my point of it being up to the individual. If you're 13 coming onto the site, 12 year olds would be fine. We all know there are some young ones on here. Hell, I found this site when I was around that age. Four is one extreme, but the story was written so to set up when she was older, and just not finished.
 

Observer

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Nope, no such list of stories we bounced was kept, although I do remember the theme of the story that created the firestorm.

It involved a spoiled and corpulent seven year old compulsive eater who gained so much weight that she broke the back of her birthday pony, killing it - and her indifferent reaction was simply to whine for more cake. The graphic portrayal of obvious parental irresponsibility and animal abuse created a firestorm that directly led to my becoming the curator of the collection.

At that time we didn't have the mod team or detailed standards we have now. Although there was a general prohibition against minor protagonists (its still in the weight room today) it was relatively new and had never been applied retroactively or defined in detail. It simply said "Please note: we will not be accepting stories featuring under-aged protagonists."

What everyone agreed on was that the pony story was too much. It was yanked immediately. Then the current and more nuanced rules were drafted.

On the topic of underage protagonists it now states under "Excluded Contributions:

"...those with any references of a sexually enticing nature either to underage protagonists or with underage protagonists present; those that associate or involve pre-pubescent protagonists with any kind of weight references or participatory character role; those that involve teenage minors in practices such as feeding, weight gain drugs, explicit sex and similar themes;
In other words. we're not going to have stuff that could get people in trouble with the law or provoke valid criticism that we are sanctioning child abuse, pedophilia, or other improper activities that involve kids and have nothing to do with the celebration of size.
 

Risible

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The rules about minors was there far before 2006. I definitely remember it being there before the forum showed up. My main point is that if they've been on for so long, why not just give them and those authors a pass?

Observer, do you have a list of the ones purged?



If a 30 year old has sex with a 16 or 17 year old, he's not getting a high five. Which brings me to my point of it being up to the individual. If you're 13 coming onto the site, 12 year olds would be fine. We all know there are some young ones on here. Hell, I found this site when I was around that age. Four is one extreme, but the story was written so to set up when she was older, and just not finished.
I've been a moderator here in the Library for about a year now; at about that same time, the Story Rules and Regulations were revised to specifically narrow the involvement of underage characters.

I concur with the current rules, and, as Observer knows, I'm tough on stories with minors in them when I come across them while editing.

However, I don't have time to comb through the thousands upon thousands of stories that are already in the collection looking for violators of the underage rules. I know Observer is busier than a one-armed paper hanger here in the Library; he certainly doesn't have time. If any one of you reading this comes across a story that violates the rules (Observer has copied them in his post above), then for the sake of decency let us know about it.

Vader, I don't agree that the age of the characters should be relative to the age of the author. Eighteen is the age of consent. Eighteen is the minimum age to join Dimensions. Eighteen is the age we insist upon for our story protagonists, as Dimensions is an adult forum.
 

Vader7476

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If any one of you reading this comes across a story that violates the rules (Observer has copied them in his post above), then for the sake of decency let us know about it.

Vader, I don't agree that the age of the characters should be relative to the age of the author. Eighteen is the age of consent. Eighteen is the minimum age to join Dimensions. Eighteen is the age we insist upon for our story protagonists, as Dimensions is an adult forum.

Sake of decency? It's literature, not actual pedophilia. Not wanting them on his own site is one thing, but don't try and make it out like it's absolutely the worst thing ever. I read BHM stories, and I'm not homosexual. Certainly one can enjoy an underage character and not be a pedophile.

I didn't say it was relative to the age of the author, but if you for one second think that everyone that goes on this site and forum is over 18, then you're greatly mistaken. As for insisting, we all know it has nothing to do with legality, and that anything could be written for any reason. As for it being an adult forum, you guys block out certain words, specifically in story posting. There's no doubt the rules are arbitrary at best.
 

WildFox500

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Anyone here who isn't 18 is breaking the TOS. Why would they be considered when deciding on appropriate site content?
 

Vader7476

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Anyone here who isn't 18 is breaking the TOS. Why would they be considered when deciding on appropriate site content?
Not on the main site, signing up for the forums is 18. As for the forums, I believe I answered this. Them breaking the TOS doesn't do anything against the fact that they are still here. Even if you don't think they should be taken into account, the majority of what I've said is still valid.

And who, pray tell, is considered when deciding on appropriate site content? Was a vote taken? It's made by a few select people, who happen to be quite a deal older than a lot of its patrons.
 

Observer

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Was a vote taken?

Well, actually it was. In case you haven't noticed on the home page, over in the far left column, this site is owned by a company called Shardco, Inc. It has stockholders, who vote to elect a Board, which incudes a designated President and CEO. He and they (not me, believe it or not) have 100% support of the shareholders. They get to vote on the rules and can pull rank on Mods like Ris and I any time they want. Since they also pay the vast majority of the upkeep of this place we have no issue with that.

Now are both they and we older than a lot of those who visit here? No doubt. It might interest you to know that this works to the younger set's benefit. Our President and CEO is actually a liberalizing force on the mods - he tells us to give discussion and fantasy plenty of leeway, more frankly than some of us (myself included) would choose to if we had total discretion. He has even been known to reopen threads personally attacking him that mods have closed because of insolence and vitriol.

"Baby Fat" is one that he personally yanked as soon as he found out about it. Our mods don't have access to that set of files, although I certainly made a reccommendation. But we don't get to "vote" on such matters any more than the readers - nor should either of us expect to. We're guests in Shardco's house, called Dimension's Online, and its shareholders pay the bills and have exclusive voting rights.
 

Vader7476

Divine Sith Lord
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I shouldn't have to mention that what you're talking about and what I'm talking about are two completely different entities. Shareholders certainly are not in any way the users of this site.

Like I said, I know it's more of a Monarchy. I'm just not sure why you're trying to make it out like it's not.

Clearly he's not heavily involved with the site though, and we could let more things slip through and allow said leeway if we wanted to use it. That's what I have issue with.
 

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